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 Author Thread: Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
 Macforty

Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 1
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:11:41 AM

Boris Johnson today defended proposals to offer illegal immigrants an "earned amnesty".

Placing himself on a collision course with his own party, the mayor of London defended his decision to commission research into an "earned amnesty" scheme and claimed that the measure had worked well in Spain.

The potential recipients of amnesties would need to demonstrate their entitlement for "well over five years", prove they had had no involvement in crime, had "an adequate command of English and all the rest of it", and were "a decent upright citizen", he said.

London is thought to contain some 400,000 illegal immigrants, over half the total for the whole country. Johnson said the inability of such people to enter the legitimate job market and participate fully was "a real problem for this city".

Citing the example of Spain, he said that this "greatly increased tax revenues" as well as regularising the positions of people who were suffering from lack of access to healthcare and whose situations made them "much more likely to be driven into criminality".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/davehillblog/2008/nov/26/amnesty-boris

Do you think this proposal is a good idea or do you think the wrong message is being sent out to those wishing to enter or remain in the country illegally?


 *kath*

Joined: 9/30/2008
Msg: 2
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:17:20 AM

The potential recipients of amnesties would need to demonstrate their entitlement for "well over five years", prove they had had no involvement in crime, had "an adequate command of English and all the rest of it", and were "a decent upright citizen", he said.


If these people needed to prove the above then they should have entered the country officially in the first place.

This countries going to bollox it really is.
 AlmaM

Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 3
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:21:27 AM
I am not sure.. I have seen in papers today Lord Mandelson is keen on keeping unskilled foreign workers because 'they do the jobs British people do not want to do'

I think it is all about the pay.. it is not that British people do not want to do such jobs but they do not want to be paid low wages which cannot give you a decent living standard.

You see it a lot in IT sector too and I have noticed this years ago... the company would sack a local worker they had for the past 20 years because they pay him too much and would replace him with 2 foreign workers who they would pay 2/3 of the previous employers wages... and THIS DOES affect the quality of work...

For example some councils sacked their own in house carpenters, painters etc who did excellent work and replaced them with some cowboy contracting companies who do lousy work... and IMO this costs the councils more as they have to constantly send in new contractors to fix the damage done by these cowboys... and this is not a good idea for the long turn.
 badge36

Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 4
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:21:48 AM
it wouldnt be an option if the labour party had done there job an stopped illegal immagration in first place! il say no, otherwise we will have every drug dealer, terrorist and nhs tourist over here. oops i think its to late they already are!!
 Macforty

Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 5
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:36:00 AM
What he is basically proposing is rewarding those who are here illegally because they have kept their noses clean and rather than them working illegally where the country recieves no revenue they want a piece of the pie via taxs!!

Any other country would have them swiftly removed if they were caught living illegally, working illegally and involved in criminality ............but the mayor of London wishes to 'reward' them if they come forward ????

I think I would rather go for the Rentokil method of setting the bait and eradicating the problem rather than the Mayors method of setting the bait and letting them go off with it !!

 pantsonfire

Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 6
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:40:51 AM
Well it's a bit of a no win situation...

These people are already here, they are obviously not claiming benefits as they are illegal....

I saw a woman being interviewed, she was a cleaner and earned £8 per hour.. Over the minimum wage by a fair whack... She paid no tax and no national insurance...

If she was given this amnesty, then at least she would be paying her way somewhat...

The criminality aspect is a bit of a conundrum for me though.. Surely they shouldn't have to prove they have been involved in no criminal activity ??

I mean, if they have been committing crimes, then they would have been arrested, processed accordingly and registered as being here, or even placed in an immigration centre awaiting deportation??

Or is dear old duffer Boris hoping that these criminal, illegal immigrants are going to have a crisis of conscience and come forward, admitting their criminal activities and putting themselves forward for deportation back to where they came from??

A poorly thought out patching attempt to heal a gaping wound in the British economy and social structure!!
 Loco Hombre

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 7
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:48:44 AM
I think Boris was just trying to promote a debate on this area as it is fairly clear that the system has completely failed so far. I don't think it is definitely going to happen. An amnesty will be like a thumbs up to all the people who traffic in human cargo (the lowest form of human life) to get their cargo to Britain as soon as possible so it seems a strange proposal to me for that reason. Difficult and very emotive area...

Ha ha, talking about the above post by Pants I presume Alma!

Doh, you said message 6! Must learn to read properly...
 AlmaM

Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 8
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:51:56 AM
^^^^^
Msg 6
I cannot help it but notice how many times is word criminal connected to the word immigrant in above text ^^^


In my head word criminal would not be connected to word immigrant, there must be criminals among immigrants but surely majority of people who are immigrants are there to either escape some political pressure on them in their own country or economical pressure, I would assume.

BTW have a look how Italy is dealing with their illegal immigrants:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/europe_warehouse_a_home_for_italy0s_migrants/html/1.stm
 Andy.....

Joined: 5/13/2008
Msg: 9
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:52:05 AM
A firm no to an amnesty. We are already seen as a soft touch and this will reinforce that view and send completely the wrong message.

We need to get tough on illegal immigrants, however much it costs to deal with.
 Lliwedd

Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 10
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:56:21 AM
The thing to remember is that many of these illegal immigrants who are working without paying tax, etc, also do not get the benefits that we are usually entitled to, like health care, family tax credits, etc. Although they make no contribution to tax or NI, they do ahve to spend what they earn on accomodation, food, etc, so they do make some contribution to the economy. As was pointed out, they do the jobs that no one else wants to do - I say let them carry on without an amnesty and without recieving the full benefits of our welfare system. At the end of the day, you can't claim that that isn't fair as it was their choice to come here illegally.
 pantsonfire

Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 11
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 3:56:34 AM
Good grief Alma.. re read my post properly will you woman.....


I was addressing a specific part of the OP that I have problems with...

If you note I say they shouldn't have to prove their lack of (other than being illegal immigrants) criminality because those who are criminals should already be on record and have been dealt with appropriately...

At no point anywhere do I state I believe that all or even a significant minority of immigrants are also criminals...

However illegal immigrants are criminals!!!! The clue is in their name!!!!!
 badge36

Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 12
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:03:02 AM
Alma, its because they either enter illegally thus making them a criminal or out staying there visa and again making them a criminal its not hard to understand. that woman who earned 8 an hour, where did she go when she was ill etc? how did she rent etc?
 AlmaM

Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 13
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:12:12 AM
Ok I get it now ... it is because they are Illegal Immigrants... I am dumb sometimes

I have never met anyone who was an illegal immigrant but I suppose among these who are illegal immigrants are those who have been refused asylum in UK which still doesn't mean they can safely return to their home countries, asylum decisions are not always right, and this is not only in UK but other countries too.. we have seen cases where asylum seekers were returned to their countries to be killed there...

And also these people who have been in asylum process for years and were hoping for a positive answer and got a negative, I think there was a case of a Bangladeshi guy who is going to be returned to Bangladesh after 12 years spent in UK and working as a teacher..

I think Boris was talking about these people who built their career and their life in UK.. and contributed to the society...

Wasn't the Bangladeshi guy in recent Panorama, being deported after 12 years in UK ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_7932000/7932279.stm
 Lliwedd

Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 14
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:15:37 AM
"that woman who earned 8 an hour, where did she go when she was ill etc? how did she rent etc"

I would imagine she would pay a back street doctor (probably an illegal immigrant too); maybe she pays cash for rent. Ever see that film 'Dirty Pretty Things'? Maybe exagerated but a real eye-opener into how illegals live in the UK.
 *kath*

Joined: 9/30/2008
Msg: 15
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:18:55 AM

Maybe exagerated but a real eye-opener into how illegals live in the UK.


10 to a room,managing cannabis farms or copying dvd's to pay off the debt they owe their British "owners" for getting them into the country in the first place.
 badge36

Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 16
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:24:29 AM
We should refuse every asylum applicant anyway as according to the U.N every person seeking asylum should go to the nearest safe country! so unless we get french or irish people they shouldnt be seeking asylum here! but wonder why they do ....
 johnconiston

Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 17
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:26:42 AM
Illegal immigrants by their own acts have already proven that they are willing to break the law so should be treated with suspicion and not just allowed an amnesty especially as we have no substantial evidence that they are not not fleeing their own country's authorities.
The root cause should be addressed whereby Employers of illegal immigrants should be fined £5,000 per employee who doesn't have the right to work here.
the points system for work visas as employed in Austrailia and Canada should be applied here.
and illegal immigrants should be sent back as soon as possible with their own countries billed for their transport.
Mechanisms for legitimate asylum and refugees should be in place but for those who think they can get away with it and overstay should be under no illusion that simply by staying here long enough for an amnesty is a possible solution.
 AlmaM

Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 18
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:50:35 AM
^^^^

There is a point system for highly skilled workers !

I think legal workers entering UK are damaging the current work market more than the "illegals".

For example have a look at this :





From The Telegraph:

Influx of foreign IT workers 'crazy'

More than 35,000 IT workers from outside the EU were granted work permits in 2008 despite the economic downturn, it has emerged.


Last Updated: 5:05PM GMT 08 Mar 2009

The influx of foreign workers has led to thousands of UK software engineers and systems analysts being laid off, according to the Association of Professional Staffing Companies (APSCo).

APSCo said data obtained from the Home Office under the Freedom of Information Act showed 35,430 non-EU IT workers were granted work permits in 2008.


The figure is down 8 per cent from a high point of 38,450 in 2007. But the number of foreign IT workers who entered the country was three times as many as during the dot com boom. In 2000, 12,726 work permits were granted.

APSCo said the Government should force companies to advertise vacancies in the UK before being allowed to transfer workers from overseas offices.

Chief executive Ann Swain said: "It seems crazy that with the economy in a severe downturn and thousands of IT workers having already lost their jobs we are still bringing three times as many foreign IT workers to the UK than during the dot com boom when we had a chronic skills shortage.

"The economic slowdown and supposedly 'tougher' new points-based immigration system seem to have had very little effect on slowing the influx of foreign IT staff into the UK.

"A few years ago this may have been overlooked, but with IT jobs much scarcer, this is now a contentious issue."

She said 80 per cent of non-EU IT workers coming to the UK were on intra-company transfers, adding: "Most of these foreign IT workers are software engineers and systems analysts. They are not coming here to answer phones on help desks, but are taking highly skilled and well paid jobs."

Ms Swain said the money-saving practice of relocating IT jobs overseas, known as "off-shoring", was likely to accelerate during the downturn.

"Off-shoring has eaten away at the bottom rungs of the skills ladder, making it much harder to get the experience needed for the mid-level jobs which foreign companies are bringing workers into the UK to fill," she said.

"If anything we are going to see more entry-level IT jobs sent offshore in 2009 as recession bites.

"Is it any wonder that 7 per cent fewer students leave British universities with IT qualifications than five years ago when so many jobs are going offshore?"

India was the country from which the most people were granted work permits, with 29,400 issued in 2008.

This was followed by the United States (1,635), China (510), Australia (475), South Africa (430), Pakistan (280), Canada (230), Malaysia (215), Japan (165) and Russia (165).

A UK Border Agency spokesman said: "We introduced our flexible points based system to allow the British government to manage the number of people coming to the UK from outside Europe, adjusting the bar to ensure that the right people and the people we need can come.

"We want the UK to remain open to business and an attractive place for multinational businesses."


30 000 people from India got working visa to enter to work in UK in 2008... same time UK own IT workers lost their jobs where the companies went for the cheaper workers and those who would work longer hours for the less money ...
 lennielion

Joined: 9/28/2008
Msg: 19
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:57:43 AM
Worldwide Depression; Nationalism; a popular US President trying to rebuild his country...

I don't think we need to worry about global warming... (Tick, Tick, Boom!)
 _SunnyDisposition

Joined: 5/30/2008
Msg: 20
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 4:58:40 AM
Illegal immigrants benefit the economy, and legal immigrants benefit the treasury.
 person l

Joined: 1/10/2009
Msg: 21
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 5:03:06 AM
a lot of illegals must be doing cash in hand jobs to maintain themselves, so by letting them stay they will also get benefits whilst working cash in hand as well, how wonderful this country is
 Aitch Em

Joined: 3/3/2009
Msg: 22
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 5:10:25 AM
It saddens me that Boris hasn't the spine to implement a zero tolerance policy instead. How much longer are the good, law abiding, tax paying folk of this country going to be made fools of?
 Lliwedd

Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 23
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Posted: 3/10/2009 6:19:36 AM
"It saddens me that Boris hasn't the spine to implement a zero tolerance policy instead. How much longer are the good, law abiding, tax paying folk of this country going to be made fools of?"

I guess as long as it takes for us to grow spines too!
 another day

Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 24
Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 6:27:34 AM
If they are illegal they should be deported without recourse, no way we can afford to have these people in the country, we can't even house the legal occupants................

400k in London.............where are they living? where do they get the money to survive? how many homeless nationals are in London?

Boris is a fool, (The Who had a song about a spider called Boris)
 1LOVEJELLY

Joined: 9/7/2008
Msg: 25
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Immigrant Amnesty Proposal !!
Posted: 3/10/2009 9:05:57 AM
The law should be clear.

If they are illegally here, then they should be deported, simple as.

I don't really know why its even being debated.
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