| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 7:53:57 AM | ... is my personal motto when it comes to abuse at the hands of a man. There is so much media surrounding the Rhianna/Chris Brown saga that I was forced to bring this situation up with my 11 year old daughter yesterday as she read it in a smut magazine she loves. It sickened me that I had to discuss this type of violence with her at such an early age - and again, snatch another piece of her innocence, but I did not want her to think that a man laying hands on a woman was to be forgotten or forgiven - EVER!
Would/do you think that a man should get a second chance?
My prediction is that these two stars are in the news again within a year regarding the same thing.
Discuss...
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:01:25 AM | | Absolutely correct! There is no reason to hit a woman. Ever. You can defend yourself without violence. Rhianna has a history of violence apparently, and has been rumored to be a "button pusher". No excuse. In the course of working in bars, or life, I have had women try to hit me, never ever hit back. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:27:38 AM | Nobody has any right to lay a hand on another in anger. End of story.
I don't care if its man/woman, woman/man. Keep your hands to yourself... go take a walk, go for a drive, if one gets that angry, remove yourself from the situation before it explodes.
Domestic violence is never pretty. Unfortunately the abused seem to always give their abusers a second chance... and a third, and a fourth, and so on... | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:39:57 AM | a second chance should not be given - easier said than done though
the dynamics in an abusive relationship are very complicated - ancd difficult to understand from the outside looking in.. or even from the view point of escape (what was I thinking putting up with that crap)
both parties play a role in the dynamic and yes, unless this pair can get away from each other and get the help that thye both need, they will be in the same spot over and over | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:47:38 AM | In our world today this is becoming so much more common. whether its alcohol, drugs or just economic problems , spousal abuse is on the rise. It is not right , should never be accepted and the person doing the abuse should get help. As for second chances it would depend on the situation , if the offending party is unwilling to get the proper treatment
then hasta la vista (?) baby..
One thing is for sure , being famous and well off does not eliminate jealousy, which is a sign of insecurity and makes normally easygoing persons do some pretty dumb things. If the relationship has promise ,it will take a strong willed mate to work through the problems .
Confucius say: if you put head in mouth of tiger, do not be surprised if it bit off..
dustin | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:58:42 AM | Very few abusive people can be successfully rehabilitated so no I do not think an abuser should be given a second chance. The victim however has usually been brainwashed into thinking they are somehow to blame, and lot's of other factors to consider. It is a difficult place to be in and hard place to get out of.
I find emotional abuse far more hurtful than physical abuse. Injuries heal a broken spirit can take a lifetime to be healed. I applaud you on educating your daughter. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:23:28 AM | I'm trying not to generalize here but you always read about women and how they always want to fix their guy. You know, the guy wasn't quite what they were looking for but they can fix that.
Is it this optimistic attitude that leads to repeated abuse?
I'm just trying to understand why some women let guys get away with crap like that. In my world, I'd have a one strike rule. It would take a lot of proof that the other person 'got help' for their anger issues....
I guess it comes down to "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 10:01:03 AM | Abuse of a partner is a no/no. Whether it be the man hitting the woman, or vice-versa or even hitting each other with the emotional aspects that are in play, but you read so little about.
Why do people tend to gravitate towards the same type of person from which they ran?? One would have to make an irrational assumption that it is a comfort zone. So if we always put ourselves into this comfort zone, are we not anticipating the same abuse we received previously??
IT'S time for some people to wake up and smell the roses for what and whom they are, step out of the box and create a new set of standards to live by. We have the power to do it, we just need someone to tell us what it is that is so different! I was once told to start living life for me, not others, and when you are a giving person that likes the comfort of the appreciation, it is not that easy to change. But I have, and so others shall, and yet others should when they find themselves in repetitive situations that are abusive. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 6:29:18 PM | Duffster,
The majority of the domestic violence is male against female but no matter the gender of the abuser, it IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!!!
After repeated abuse, many women have ingrained into their brains that they actually "deserve" to be treated like that. They have zero self confidence, and breaking out of the situation takes more than they have. In my profession, I've seen many women beaten to within an inch of their lives and every single one would make excuses for the abuser. "He loves me, he won't do it again!" "It was my fault. I shouldn't have blocked his view of the game on TV." etc, etc. Within weeks, I'd see the same women come back with new bruises or broken bones, but the excuses were always there. Rarely did they have the confidence to actually remove themselves from the situation or have the abuser charged. Fortunately, the police will now lay charges against the abuser, but then be prepared to wait months - years for the case to actually make it through our court system, and unless the domestic violence has actually done some very permanent physical damage there is usually little more than a slap on the wrist for a sentence. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 6:31:47 PM | Tough topic. Unless you've been there, you'll never understand how someone could possibly give a second chance - or a third, or a fourth - to someone who has physically hurt them. You get angry with the victim because they don't leave or because they rush to their abuser's defence. So easy to think a victim should just be able to walk away when you're looking in from the outside with no similar experience behind the eyes you're using to judge the situation.
Does an abuser deserve a second chance to hurt you again? Absolutely not. Will they get it? I don't know what the stats are, but the answer is yes, they probably will. No man or woman believes they could possibly love someone who would hurt them. Gotta be a one-time thing due to a bad day at the office, lack of sleep, the kids screaming 24/7, the financial hit they took in the stock market. ....Of course more likely than not they'll get a second chance - or a third, or a fourth or a twentieth - because they've convinced their victim it's their fault they got hurt in the first place.....
It's very sad, SS, that we have to discuss such things with our children when they should be joyfully experiencing what life has to offer, but it is far better that you warn them at a young age about abuse and teach them not to be tolerant of it than to spend your nights crying over them when they're adults because they've become victims of it. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 7:10:23 PM | I grew up in a home with an abusive, alcoholic parent so I guess you could say that I’m hyper-sensitive to behaviour that is reminiscent of what I saw and experienced as a child. Consequently, I have absolutely no tolerance for attitudes or conduct even remotely suggestive of emotional or physical abuse. That intolerance has served me well; I’ve never experienced that at the hands of a partner and I’ve always ensured that I was never in a position of having to stay with someone who exhibited abusive behaviors or the potential for such behaviour.
It’s extremely important that we teach our children, not only by talking to them but also by setting an example, that there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of treating others and of how we allow others to treat us. Abusiveness is not an innate or instinctive character trait, it is learned and what we teach our children will stay with them for a lifetime.
As far as giving an abusive person a second chance ... they wouldn’t even get a first one. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 7:16:50 PM | I think the man should seek help and that it may sometimes work. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't advise the victim stay in a relationship.
As a side note, isn't there supposed to be the "Innocent until proven guilty" ideal in North American judicial system? Chris Brown hasn't had his day in court and yet in terms of public opinion, he is beyond guilty it seems. How did that ideal die so quickly in this case? | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 7:23:00 PM | I think the man should seek help and that it may sometimes work. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't advise the victim stay in a relationship.
As a side note, isn't there supposed to be the "Innocent until proven guilty" ideal in North American judicial system? Chris Brown hasn't had his day in court and yet in terms of public opinion, he is beyond guilty it seems. How did that ideal die so quickly these days? | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 7:31:20 PM | yes, I tend to agree with many who have posted on here....been there done that....and there is zero tolerance in my book for abuse of any kind! It is challenging to raise our children in a society where it is a major problem - especially domestic violence. One never knows what goes on behind closed doors. And I agree that all people should walk away from any sort of violence & out of control anger. Cool down and look at the situation, and always, always, always ask or seek out help no matter what side you are on. There are incredible resources out there, just call the operator, look in the front of the phone book, call a friend, neighbor, hospital, crisis line etc.....in this day & age there is no excuse to not get help . Choice is a powerful thing....and abuse is usually about control.....take control of your own life, especially if you have children, then it is no longer just about you! You have an obligation to make sure they are safe. It is definitely easier to talk and discuss, especially for those that have never walked in those shoes. But for those that have, they understand. Take care! Be safe!  | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:01:07 PM | Spoiled--
I have struggles with this topic with my own 11 year old as well.......although I think for me it is a bit different....sad to say that she been a witness to the same type of abuse between her father and I. This was after almost 10 years apart, divorced from him. Thinking that after 10 years he had changed the abusive part in his life, only to learn that he had not changed a bit.
As I was the button pusher in the relationship I do and did then take that responsibilty. But I also blame myslef for the staying and thinking "that if I loved him enough, he will change". I agree with another poster.....that if you have never had to face it directly, it is difficult to say.....I wont ever be back. After years of figuring out why I chose the mate I did........It was because thats how I was raised. My parents fought, my grandparents fought....ect, ect, ect.
Anyways, long boring story shortened........if you teach your children to have self esteem, search for love within them selves, teach them to know who they are as a person, teach them where they fit in, in the family and teach them to believe that worth a great deal of life and they owe it to themselves to take care of themselves as they would take care of their bestfriend.......and that no matter how bad things are in life, you are ALWAYS there for them to help guide them into finding the answer.
And that no man is worth any amount of physical pain. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:33:48 PM | | Typically the abusive man at first is very very charming. Than little by little he starts breaking down the womans self esteem and spirit. It gets to a point the victim may feel sub-human and worthless. Unless one is is the situation they cannot understand the guilt, fear, and humiliation that comes with the realization the person that was supposed to love them treats them the worst. Also sometimes not recognizing how bad things are is a coping mechanism. Are some people more prone to fall into a relationship with an abusive person, possibly but no one goes out looking for it and I think generally for anyone thinking you are going to fix a person is a bad idea. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:55:15 PM | Now on the other side I can see how a guy would get a power trip over abusing someone. I certainly don't condone or excuse it. In my opinion, you are not showing how manly you are by abusing your partner. You are showing how weak you are. It has to be low self esteem on the abusers part. They must value themselves so low that the only way they can feel good about themselves is by diminishing another.
Maybe I've watched one too many episodes of Criminal Minds. But it does seem that some guys will resort to some kind of abuse when they are stressed at work, at home or even on the streets. When someone cuts me off in traffic, I have to bite my tongue. I've seen the mildest mannered guy do the same. But we aren't cavemen anymore. We have to control our impulses. When the impulses get worse than this, you need to seek professional help. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:05:26 PM |
but I did not want her to think that a man laying hands on a woman was to be forgotten or forgiven - EVER!
there is a difference between forgiven and taking them back. yes it will never be forgotten, and forgiving it doesn't mean it is alright for them to abuse.. but the forgiving it is away to let the abused heal, it is about the one that was abused not the abuser
I know I will never forget what happened to me nor will i give him the chance to do it again.. but do i forgive him.... YES even though he had a knife to my throat.... YES I forgive him. I'm no longer bitter about it... forgiveness gives that to me.
forgotten... no.. second chance... HELL no.... forgiven... yes
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:32:48 PM | jb - didnt you see the picture of Rhiannon's battered and bruised head? that wasnt any fall down the stairs. Wife beaters and child molesters get no quarter in my books.
And to think, this was all over him talking to Paris Hilton. Disgusting. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:29:11 AM |
Would/do you think that a man should get a second chance?
I believe, depending on the circumstances, everyone deserves a second chance.
Nobody has any right to lay a hand on another in anger. I don't care if its man/woman, woman/man. Keep your hands to yourself... NL, totally agree with you. I will take it one step further and include emotional and sexual abuse. Mature adults should be able to have a mature relationship.
Very few abusive people can be successfully rehabilitated
Not true. The key is the person has to first see there is a problem (amazing how many are in denial) and then WANT to get help. Anyone can be 'rehabilitated' but the desire needs to be there.
Why do people tend to gravitate towards the same type of person from which they ran?? Duff... far too many would rather deal with the evil they know than face the unknown. At least, if I stay with my abusive man, I can fake he loves me, have a roof over my head, ensure my children are provided for, etc. If I leave, where will I go? Who will love me? Will he come after me? (Note: I am not in this situation, I am just using an example.)
The majority of the domestic violence is male against female
I would love to see some stats regarding this as I do not believe it. I am not 5'2"... do you really think my 6' male partner is going to admit I beat him? This is a very common scenario. The ego is a fragile thing, it is difficult to seek help when the potential for ridicule is high. (Note: Again, I am not in this situation, I am just using an example.)
In my experience, there are TWO people in an abusive relationship. (Please do not flame me for this.) Usually both people are abusive (although not in the same ways) and the only way this can be effectively dealt with is for BOTH parties to seek help. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:40:43 AM | Oh for heaven's sake, you should use google.. ^^^^
Of course there are TWO people in an abusive relationship, othewise it would not be a relationship. As for the abuse, I absolutely vehemently disagree that USUALLY both people are abusive. Please investigate before opening your mouth.
The theory that abused men or women DESERVE the abuse is fostered by comments like that. Volunteer in a shelter and see what abuse victims look like, and how they act.
Stats show most abused partners will attempt to leave the abusive spouse/partner a minimum of six times before being successful. The severity of the abuse increases with each attempt often culminating in spousal homicide.
Straight from a doctors mouth, Dr. David Topps..
The statistics are very low in "curing" abuse. Often the abuser seeks treatment, only to reoffend with the same partner. Introducing a new partner may prove more successful in creating new dynamics allowing the abuser to maintain control. But all in all, the success in domestic violence programs aimed at treating the abuser have a dismal success rate of less than 3%. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:55:07 AM | there are a few reasons to hit a woman:
1. shes naked on your bed and begging for a smack
2 she didnt listen the first 2 times
3, she didnt make a good sammich 
as far as the bouncer guy never hitting a woman who hit him . well she mustnt have hit u very hard or you were always bigger than her. funny how you never said you wouldnt attack a man that did the same thing as the woman. kinda makes you a bit of a hypocrite. since when do we begin to justify abuse??
i know several women that would and could beat most guys to a pulp , frankly if you allow someone to abuse you , be it male or female then you truly are a coward,.self defence isnt gender related, and in this day and age when women are becoming more violent than ever in history, i think its high time we started to teach both the lil girls and lil boy that violence is never the answer
it doesnt make you a man , to hit a woman, however , it doesnt make you a man to allow a woman to hit you either.
proper restraining techniques are helpful when you are being attacked by either gender | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/13/2009 12:45:09 PM | | Thanks for posting the stats Gem. I think very few of the general public actually fully understand the dynamics or have done the groundwork to really even begin to minutely understand abuse and what it can do to a person. I do think abusive personalities can be rehabilitated however they have to want it and they really have to be going through the appropriate channels to be doing so, which often does not happen. Often abusive personalities will continue to abuse and blame their behavior on others. If anything sometimes those seeking "help" actually become more smart and effective about how they abuse and never stop at all. | |
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| Once Bitten Twice Shy ..
Posted: 3/13/2009 1:03:21 PM |
The theory that abused men or women DESERVE the abuse is fostered by comments like that.
I NEVER mentioned that people deserve to be abused. No one DESERVES to be abused.
I have volunteered at a shelter, working with women and quite often their children.
Statistics for abusive relationships, cannot be claimed accurate as so many situations and instances go unreported. | |
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