| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:48:33 AM | Do religious schools help our society to interact or should religion be separated from the educational system in this country?
My feeling is, in order to fully integrate youngsters and society, we should keep religion out of the educational system in this country.
One school system for all school age children, one uniform and one educational pathway. Simplify the system and perhaps that can simplify the issues of racism.
My question is should children between 5 and 16 have an education from the state, using a model of education that takes no account of cultural diversity within its pupil base, it is based on factual, and impartial education only. No private educational establishments that have religious teachings within the curriculum should be allowed. There is the option of home tuition where the parents can do what they wish to educate their child.
Religion has a place in the home and in the culture of some societies, and I am not for burning down the churches or other religious establishments. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:57:40 AM | I don't agree with Faith based schools. They tend to offer only one view of the world, the view their particular religion dictates and everything else is wrong. As an example, some Christain schools in the US teach their kids that creationism is the absoulte truth, even suggesting that Humans and Dinosaurs lived together! Or that the Earth is only 6000 years old! we know this to be incorrect.
As you suggest, keep religion in the home and the relevent place of worship. | |
|
| |
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:07:56 AM | The reason I don't agree with religion in schools is what does a five year old person know about religion? They may know a lot if they come from a religious family but otherwise?
But they are taught from an early age about Christianity and that that way is the only way.
I was made to do RE at high school even though I'm not religious. I also had to attend church services at school even though I knew from a very early age that I don't believe in God. If people want to teach about faith in schools they should educate about all relevant religious faiths, not just Christianity. Otherwise people should be able to opt out, I believe that they can do this now.
Up here you are either viewed as Catholic or Protestant, I'm neither. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:10:09 AM | I don't think there is such a thing as impartial education. If that were so then no history should be thaught either.
My children go to a catholic school but they don't just learn about their own religion and the minority of non catholics are fully included in any cermonies that take place (communion and confirmation etc) | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:15:17 AM |
If people want to teach about faith in schools they should educate about all relevant religious faiths, not just Christianity.
True. Thats why it should be kept separate. There are so many religions that to educate about them all would dominate the curriculum. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:17:51 AM | My job takes me in and out of a few schools of different faiths...and my own education saw me in Jewish, Christian and Quaker schools at one point or another.
So, bearing in mind that I've grown up to be a completely non-religious person with my own wacky belief system, based on what I see each day I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong with having religion in school, provided that kids are also taught to be TOLERANT of everyone else and their beliefs or lack thereof.
The idea of banning it across the board is just another example of the Great British "I don't like this so nobody should be allowed to do it" mentality.
Afterall, you do have a choice of where to send your kid (sort of)...so if you want them to go to a Catholic school, you don't have to send them to a Jewish one. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:31:14 AM | I have to ask why religious ceremonies have any place in a school timetable. Particularly when some of the pupils are not of the same belief system that supports the need for the ceremony, ie a religious service. Surely the idea is presumably to educate the child in an unbiased way. Not to indoctrinate the child into having experiences that are alien to them as an individual. Students should have the equal opportunity to achieve their potential within the educational framework. How can an experience of someone else's religious beliefs give them the opportunity to achieve their personal potential.? Be inclusive of all voices and experiences but not at the expense the minority. Oppression of all types including racism or religion has to end if we are to live harmoniously.
Have you ever heard a person who is a christian or muslim say 'yes I understand you have a different religion or belief to me,and I can accept you have this difference.' I have actually been told to believe or be damned. To a child this is emotional blackmail of the worst type so I am sorry but I personally, and I stress personally believe whatever the faith the person has is fine but not in a school for my child to be subjected to. My child has her own brain and will make up her own mind when she is old enough.
Exposure to all religions in a factual way from a non religious person is fine, and no it is not another ' British I don't like it therefore it should be like this.' I am well travelled and love the other cultures that I have been fortunate enough to have lived in not visited as a holiday maker. I feel the diversity in Britain is fantastic, we are one of the most tolerant countries I know to other cultures. We are one of the most generous, and sometimes too generous. However the problem is we are becoming one of the most troubled. And racism is felt underground, brewing insidiously inside like a volcano. Tolerance begins in early education not division. Religion divides. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:44:41 AM | | Totally agree with you January. My 7 yo daughter goes to a Christian based comprehensive school and is taught about Christianity. She comes home adament that God exists and Jesus is/was a real person and therefore all other beliefs are wrong. I think schools should teach moral values and the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, but should not involve religion of any type. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:07:53 AM | welcome to the site and the forums January and what a corker of a question.
I think religeous schools are often very good educationally.
I would be very interested to know what the crime rates are and how they differ between pupils from faith schools and none faith schools.
As long as they get an overview of different religions in RE, i don't think that faith schools are bad and IMO they are often better. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:23:42 AM |
I have to ask why religious ceremonies have any place in a school timetable.
Forgive my ignorance about how the system(s) work if I'm off the mark but is anyone forced to send their kids to a particular school? If you get to pick where they go, then why should for example St. X's Catholic School be forced to remove all Catholic material from its syllabus just because it also allows enrollment of children of other faiths?
Perhaps instead of forcing regulations on schools that forbid the teaching of a particular faith just because it might upset members of other faiths who choose to attend that institution, there should be more choice of schools that cater to including non-denominational ones where religion IS off the syllabus, allowing you to send your kids somewhere they won't be 'subjected' to someone elses beliefs.
Have you ever heard a person who is a christian or muslim say 'yes I understand you have a different religion or belief to me,and I can accept you have this difference.'
Yes. A lot. Haven't you? | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:27:31 AM | What are non faith schools then? I went to a local high school that many faiths attended apart from Roman Catholics. However as I said, we were taught about a Christian God, we had to do religious education, it was compulsory then. We had to go to services at Easter and Christmas. I don't know of many schools that are not faith based to some degree.
I did 3 of my Highers at the local Roman Catholic school, because there were subjects I wanted to study that weren't on offer at my school. I was impressed by the quality of the teaching but I found it very odd that religion was so much a part of the school, and it still will be. I don't know why people can't just go to the same school and then be taken out of certain classes to be taught about their own faith or no faith. I seriously disagree with having to be taught about Christianity when you don't believe in God, that's forcing religion on children/teenagers.
My ex boyfriend went to a Roman Catholic school and failed every single one of his O'grades, because the area he lived in was very rough, he said that kids had no interest in learning and many were out of control.
As has been said before religion divides people and teaching about God to four and five year olds is unfair, especially as it seems to be mostly about one faith and one faith only.
Religion has no place in schools, I firmly believe that.
Religion isn't off the syllabus in non denominational schools, I went to a non denominational high school and we were forced to learn about Christianity in RE and to go to church services.
I also went to a non denominational primary school and again was made to go to Christian church services even though I wasn't a Christian.
| |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:43:15 AM | I can remember in junier school one RE lesson to do with being baptized and the fact that if you weren't you went to hell
The big question that dinner time in the school yard was have you been baptized, i didn't have a clue so that was the 1st thing i asked me mam when i got home....yes i had 
The following day again in the school yard it was discovered that a couple of my mates from the orphanitch hadn't and the amount of teasing and bullying they got was terrible.
I can remember thinking how they didn't have a mum or dad to console them about it when they went home and i had so much empathy for them.
Na keep it out is what i say or as has been said before teach all faiths... something like if you don't believe in Allah you wont be going to heaven and your worth no more than a dog and killing you is not a sin...summut along those lines  ..just to balance things out 
 | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:49:50 AM | I can remember in junier school one RE lesson to do with being baptized and the fact that if you weren't you went to hell
I think that's a disgrace to be honest, teaching stuff like that. You get people who have been baptised and don't believe in God, my mum is one of them, so she won't be going to hell and I will, or will she be going to hell because she doesn't believe in God anymore? I've already been told on another thread on here that I'm sordid, that I will burn in hell and that I'm responsible for societies drug and alcohol problems because I don't believe.
Attitudes like that frighten me to be honest. I have friends who are religious and we have had many debates on religion but not once have they ever spoken to me in that manner.
Someone also said on another thread you don't choose your race but you choose your religion, I disagree, most people take on the religion and beliefs of their parents/families.
What right do schools have to teach 100 per cent that something exists and that you should believe in it to kids of five years of age? Then make them feel bad because their families might not have had them christened or baptised.
Most wars in this world are fought in the name of religion.
| |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:53:40 AM | Parents will always want the best for their children and there is not often the choice as one poster imagines. It can be as simple as this is the only decent school around and therefore regardless of its faith I will send my child to this school in the hope they can with my support decide on the issues around religion in an intelligent and sensible way. The trouble is the child is vulnerable to not only peer pressure but also to indoctrination.
My main point is that maybe younger people would be more tolerant in society if religious education was not taught. Would it help the integration society and reduce racism. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 11:53:40 AM | IMO there is a history of church schools in this country and people can choose to apply for them. They do not have catchment areas like state schools.
I am not sure, but I belive that as a condition of getting funding from their LEA's they are obliged to provide places for a percentage of children from other denominations/relegions.
In my area there is often keen competition to get into these schools, which suggests they are wanted and percieved to give a good product, so I'm for more choice not less. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 12:01:11 PM | for example there is zero proof that the big bang happened.how can you teach something as a SCIENCE when the only proof it happens is based on stories made up by people who study the subject?
What proof is there that the Bible happened as it's written. The planet has been around for millions of years yet we only count from what happened 2000 plus years ago.
The point people are making is that generally it's only Christianity that's taught, one version of events and that even people who don't attend a faith based school are also taught about Christianity.
I'd rather people went to a nomal school and made their own mind up about the Bible than were forced to learn about Christianity and Christianity only.
There are Sunday Schools and faith groups that kids can learn about their religion of choice in, it doesn't need to be taught in schools. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 12:08:45 PM | My kids are in Catholic school so no, I object to your ideas.
Catholic schools tend to pull in better grades than your average school, so thats a good reason alone to keep them. Also Children need to learn about other faiths else they will only be accepting to those religions their parents bring them up with.
Religion in my opinion is a very important part of Education and in while teaching history. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 12:18:58 PM | We count the years as an approximation of the time from Jesus' birth, 2009 AD, do we not?
From wiki The common Western standard for numbering years, in which the current year is 2009, is based on an early medieval attempt to count the years from Jesus' birth.
I have not been taught at school at any time any "stories" about the big bang or anything to do with evolution, I was only taught Christianity and nothing else.
I object to five year olds being taught one way and one way only when they are not of an age to make up their own minds about religion.
The goodness of Jesus and God? Yet Christian people tell others who don't believe that they will burn in hell? Imagine a five year old being taught that because he was not baptised he will burn in hell?
You may think that the science way is lies, other people may think the Bible is lies, the point is, people should have the right to make up their own minds and not be told one story and one story only, as if it is fact.
Where is the balance in that? | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 12:30:47 PM | Quite so, Christians and other religions base their belief on fear......... it is the only way, you are indeed damned if you do not turn to God, and that is fine if they are fearful, let us not forget they can sin and then be forgiven, aaaaaah but God knows what is in your heart. He knows if you are truly sorry. Go to an alpha course and see how much sense it makes...... not a lot to me. It is personal though, I do not believe I will be damned just because I happen not to believe in God, but I believe that we get treated how we treat others and if we are disrespectful to others they will behave towards us in the same fashion.
I also do not question that there are some excellent faith schools however I question that they are good because of their faith. More to do with the children they draw into their schools and the discipline perhaps.
Why can we not just concentrate on the positive things in life, such as how to get on with each other on this earth, it is the only one we have at the end of the day; on having our children educated and not wasting curriculum time on religious beliefs that may or may not be a something you wish to believe or that you hope one day your children will believe in. | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 12:54:51 PM |
in schools people are told that things like the big bang happen for certain.yet it is only a theory ,a story.
people are taught that we descended from ape like animals yet it is only a suggestion,it has no scientific backing in the real realms of science .therefore another story.
Dealing with each separately.
The Big Bang, yes it is only a theory but it is much, much more than a story. The theory is backed up by the numbers. So the theory was developed in a way to explain the numbers. Theorists agree that it is far from perfect and that there are holes and even 'leaps of faith.' It is however a more fact based explanation than
'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth'
Darwin's theory of evolution is again a theory not a fact again however, it is fact based theorising, backed up by evidence. Nothing in the science of the last hundred years has put forth anything to disprove the theory. Your quote
it has no scientific backing in the real realms of science is therefore nothing more than utter tosh. IT is actually constantly reinforced as we find how closely related we are to the apes. A human male has more DNA in common with a male great ape than with a human female.
Back to the original question, Yes, I think religious education has a part to play in schools. We are a multi-cultural, multi-faith society. Education in the different religions increases knowledge, knowledge reduces fear. I would even say there is a place for education in the differences between Protestant and Catholic Christianity, which would also give an insight to the political history of our country.
Religion is integral to society, whether as individuals we call ourselves believers or not. By trying to block out such a huge part of our society, history, etc, we blinker ourselves to huge parts of the rest of the world and the sociological and political development of all of us. | |
|
AlmaM
|
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 22 | |
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 1:00:17 PM | When I was very young I believed that very clever people are not religious. This is because my grandad was clever and not religious and my grandma was not clever and religious..
I wish I had a chance to measure the beliefs by myself.. not to have it dismissed by someone else..
I would suggest that religion should be taught in school but the kids should have a choice whether to study it or not.. and also all of the world religions should be taught in the same class... | |
|
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 1:12:52 PM | I would suggest that religion should be taught in school but the kids should have a choice whether to study it or not.. and also all of the world religions should be taught in the same class...
I couldn't agree more with that statement. It's about choice. I come from a family of Scottish Presbyterians. My mum was forced go to to church every Sunday. She hated it.
She made up her mind that when she had kids, she would let them make up their own mind about religion. I'm not religious and neither is my brother. When I was 13 I suffered a year long bullying campaign at school, my crime was to have said that I didn't believe in God. I was accused of being the devil, whispering campaigns went on about me for a year, no one did anything to stop it. It was a horrible time, and at that time I had a relative who was suffering from schizophrenia who was going through a really rough patch. My mum had just divorced her second husband because he spent 2 years plus beating her, her dad had just died of cancer, my whole family was in bits. And being targeted by a bunch of 13, 14, 15 year olds who hated me because I didn't believe in God, that was the last straw for me.
Thats what I remember about being at school in that year, being 13 and having the balls to speak my mind about not believing in God. And suffering for it, big time.
I think that someone in my class had said, if you fall over that's God pushing you and I said nonsense and it all escalated from there.
I have people in my life who believe in God and I care about them deeply, but I have crossed paths with many people who think Christian = good person.
So, before people tell me or anyone else who isn't a believer that they will burn for all eternity because they don't worship, then open your eyes to those people who claim to be good Christians but persecute people for not sharing their beliefs.
I don't tell anyone how to live their life and I think it is atrocious that we are all expected to believe in one thing or else we are seen as sinners/not decent people. | |
|
| |
| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 1:15:38 PM | Going to Sunday school when i was young taught me how to recognise 2faced tw@ts liars and sanctamonius pompous bigots.
I can always remember the way one of my so called older sister s"friends "looked down on her in such a snobbish way when my sister could only put a thrupenny bit in the collection plate as this particular "friend" could always put in a silver sixpence.
The following Sunday on our way to church i made a deal with my sis ..she lets me skip Sunday school and she gets my thrupenny bit..we change the 2 coins for a silver sixpence.
Sunning myself that Sunday morning on the beach i wished i could of seen the ****es face as my sis put her silver sixpence in the plate..Ahhh brotherly love eh | |
|
Home
login 
