| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/13/2009 7:37:31 PM | A few days ago a ship headed into the Moreton Bay area in the rough seas caused by Cyclone Hamish, and spilled 30 tonnes of oil into the water. There is now an oil slick that stretches to the Sunshine Coast. Fish, dolphins, turtles, sea birds, (poor Pelicans!!) ... will be fighting for their lives whilst trying to live in an oil slick, until it breaks up. I've seen footage of this type of thing overseas, but it's totally distressing to think that this has happened right here. Moreton Island is so beautiful.
But the less visible problem is that the ship also lost 31 containers of ammonium nitrate overboard. Ammoniom nitrate is used to make fertilizer and explosives and is highly toxic. If the containers leak, it could spell long term disaster for wildlife in the Bay.
Conservationists are demanding tougher federal rules for cargo ships bringing volatile materials through coastal waters. Wildlife Preservation Society of Queensland and Queensland Conservation spokesman Simon Baltais, said authorities needed to explain why the cargo ship was heading into a tropical cyclone in the first place.
Good point huh. It's not as if cyclones move very fast...about 20klms an hour or something...plenty of time for those in control of sea vehicles to adjust their course and get the hell out of the way, particularly if they are carrying such poisonous cargo. I've read reports that say other ships didn't seem to be losing cargo..so why did this one lose 31 containers overboard?? Shipping containers aren't exactly small...and how well could they have been secured if 31 fell off?? And I've read reports that the EPA wasn't quick enough to contain the oil to stop the extent of the spread. And I've read reports that say they may never recover the containers..which makes me wonder how much effort they intend to put in. And of course everyone is talking about fining the ship owner...not like money will fix the dead marine life and future toxicity of the Bay.
So do you see this as just par for the course in today's world, or do you believe that more could have been done to prevent it? Should the authorities not rest until the containers are retrieved or are you happy to think there are 31 containers of poison sitting in the Bay like a timebomb? We've got one of the most amazing natural environments in the world. Are we just too casual about this sort of thing?
[By the way, if anyone wants to help with the most immediate concern...the clean up... you can contact the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and add your name to a volunteers list. 07 32278185
....Edit: This one might be better 1800 216723 and don't think you've got the wrong number when they answer "Department of Transport" because they are using those lines to take names for Qld Parks & Wildlife volunteers. And the sort of help they need is yet to come, by the way, not right this minute due to OH&S] | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:08:09 PM | Well first, anything that can happen will happen if you wait long enough, and if this kind of thing is going to happen, it is probable better that it happens off the coast of a rich country rather than a poor one. At least in theory the manpower, resources and expertise needed to ameliorate the problem, to whatever extent that is possible, are not beyond our means. There are many place in the world where helplessly watching their livelihoods destroyed, not to mention the environmental damage, is the only option the people have available to them and sadly we are far more likely to help ourselves than anyone else in this situation.
The loss of the containers full of ammonium nitrate seems for some reason to be par for the course and clearly needs looking into; have you noticed that you never pick up the newspaper and find that 31 containers of Harley-Davidsons were lost at sea or that amidst the tumult of a terrifying storm 131 Honda civics poured over the sides. It always seems to be something that is obviously likely to cause a problem if it goes over the side, which does in fact go over the side.
As for whether the containers can or should be retrieved, that is a technical question that will depend on how quickly the ammonium nitrate is going to escape from the containers, if the quantity of ammonium nitrate, diluted in the ocean is really large enough to cause a problem, how deep the water is where the containers were lost and no doubt the answers to many other questions. I for one don’t know the answers to these questions and at the moment I don’t think that anyone else does either. Hopefully it is upon these consideration that the decision will be based rather than how much it will cost to retrieve them or whether leaving them were they are would be considered a sin by the adherents of the environmentalist religion.
As for the immediate effects on the wild life; well I have been trying to get hold of a friend of mine who is a marine biologist who often works in this area. So far I have had no luck; hopefully she is out on a date, though I fear that it is because she is presently up to her elbows in oily pelicans and doesn’t have a pocket for her mobile in her wetsuit. What a debacle  | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:14:57 PM |
And I've read reports that say they may never recover the containers..which makes me wonder how much effort they intend to put in. And of course everyone is talking about fining the ship owner...not like money will fix the dead marine life and future toxicity of the Bay.
It's all about money, it's all about weighing the financial cost against the cost to the environment and wildlife, if it's gonna' cost too much then the containers will stay there...but the company will cop a fine... yeah that really makes sense...even a child could see the stupidity of that kind of logic. Surly it would make more sense to force the company to clean up the mess (what ever the cost) rather than slap them on the wrist. It seems there are far too many people buying there way out of there responsibilities.
Are we just too casual about this sort of thing?
Ouch! pang of guilt from that one. I used to be much less casual back in the Eighties and was quite heavily involved in the wilderness Society and in particular the Fraser Island campaign. Lately I seem to have had my head in the sand, so to speak, it'll be a bit hard to keep it there now since this issue is in our own back yard and especially since our bay boasts two of the largest and most beautiful sand islands in the world.
...Thanks for the contact details | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:58:52 PM |
At least in theory the manpower, resources and expertise needed to ameliorate the problem, to whatever extent that is possible, are not beyond our means.
I believe they are struggling with the islands...access, limited population and resources...for example, Moreton doesn't actually have mains electricity apparently. Practice is rarely as simple as theory I guess.
that is a technical question that will depend on how quickly the ammonium nitrate is going to escape from the containers, if the quantity of ammonium nitrate, diluted in the ocean is really large enough to cause a problem, .... /snip/...Hopefully it is upon these consideration that the decision will be based rather than how much it will cost to retrieve them or whether leaving them were they are would be considered a sin by the adherents of the environmentalist religion.
Personally (and no secret I am in the environmental religion category) it kind of worries me who they will get to find the answers to those questions. Knowing how money always rates higher than the environment, I fear they will have experts who lean towards condoning the cheapest answer, do the investigating. (I think the environmental religion is far less scary than the religion of the almighty dollar.)
a friend of mine who is a marine biologist who often works in this area. So far I have had no luck; hopefully she is out on a date, though I fear that it is because she is presently up to her elbows in oily pelicans
I too wanted to help wash pelicans...one of my alltime favourite birds  ...but the government departments involved won't let anyone except experts get hands on at that level at the moment. Apparently, and this is despite some reports that say "oh it isn't THAT bad", we wouldn't want us humans to be exposed to the toxic pollution we humans just dumped on all those animals. Personally I just find that really frustrating if it means the cleanup will get slowed down. I mean we can wear protective gear, but they don't make that in fish and pelican shapes.
I used to be much less casual back in the Eighties and was quite heavily involved in the wilderness Society and in particular the Fraser Island campaign. Lately I seem to have had my head in the sand, so to speak, it'll be a bit hard to keep it there now since this issue is in our own back yard and especially since our bay boasts two of the largest and most beautiful sand islands in the world.
...Thanks for the contact details
Actually I left a message with your mob today as well...thought they might have some suggestions for some more immediate ways to help and perhaps avoid some of the overcautious governmental red tape deflections. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:04:44 PM | I went down to coolum yesterday to have a look and get some photos ... didn't take any..
I was relieved to see no overt traces of oil on the high tide lines or flushed into Stumers Ck... no chem smells...
marcoola south copped the worst.. also the Kawana stretch...
some got into the maroochy river mangrove system around twin waters and goat Is...
apparently the overnight high tide sucked a lot of it off the beach and out to sea and it's dispersing..
a lucky escape for the northern beaches... and the clean up is working..
a second similar "ship of shame" was kept in port in newcastle as unseaworthy,,,around the same time... lucky it didn't sail north with the other one..
the waves were only about 4 mtrs and wind not gale force at the time.. not that bad for a well maintained cargo ship...
the sunshine coast daily has some pics on their web pages..
the containers are believed to be in around 130 metres of water... over 620 ton of ammonium nitrate,, 30 odd containers lost overboard..
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:06:00 PM |
It's all about money, it's all about weighing the financial cost against the cost to the environment and wildlife
I fear that you are right. I suspect that even as we type esoteric models based upon unlikely assumption are being cobbled together to give dubious support to whatever decision is made. Cost benefit analysis is great fun, often useful and sometimes despite the difficulties the only reasonable way of evaluating the felicity of committing public funds to a project.
However sometimes it is just not an appropriate or sensible course of action. A family of modest means might through necessity have to consider the likely benefits of sending one of their children to the best school available by weighing that child’s abilities, interest in education and future opportunities against the sacrifices that sending that child would necessarily impose on the rest of the family. However one would expect that wealthy family would just not bother thinking about it and so even the dullest of their progeny would end up sporting the most prestigious blazer available even if the costs looked at the time like they would well and truly outweigh the benefits.
Australia is a wealthy family; we have been among the 10 wealthiest countries in the history of the world for over a hundred years. If the technical experts think that these containers are going to cause a problem we should just go and get them because no matter what it costs not one single person will miss a meal because of it.
As for forcing the company to clean this up, they would undoubtedly do it at the least possible cost and even then it is likely to end up being a technical exercise well beyond the capacities of a company that can’t secure a container to a ship; their help might just not be worth having.
Personally (and no secret I am in the environmental religion category)
Personally I think you are like my friend in the passionate advocate category were people who are smart and believe evidence matters tend to gather. Though I will admit sometime despite all her training, she can sound a little like one of the faithful. 
I too wanted to help wash pelicans...one of my alltime favourite birds
I still haven’t heard back from her yet but I suppose if you had your own gumboots she might be able to sneak you in as her “very youthful looking” mature age student. I will see what I can do.  | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 3:33:28 AM | | Sadly this oil will not disperse; it will mostly become hydrated and sink to the bottom. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 6:25:35 AM | | Yeah well what can you say about this oil spill, its bound to happen and will happen again . Theres no one to blame for it but society itself. Yes that us folks we are a rapidly expanding species and as we grow the more we need. If we arnt rapeing the planet of trees, filling the atmosphere with toxins, depleteing the seas of fish life, killing off different spieces of animals by destroyng habitats and still we go on breeding till at some point we will be standing shoulder to shoulder and someone will say well this planets about stuffed... where to next? | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 3:06:35 PM | This is a terrible situation.
I hope the collateral damage is minimal.
It reminds me of the catastrophy of an oil tanker that hit a reef off of Alaska 20 some odd years ago. The captain was drunk at the time.
Someone rescued and cleansed a seal of all the crude on camera.
After all their loving care they released the critter and on camera as soon as it was released an Orca whale immediately came in and swallowed the bugger whole.
It's only nature.
For those who say no it's caused by humans I say sorry we are part of nature and the best part period.
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 3:25:59 PM | I say sorry we are part of nature and the best part period.
I think a minority of humans are actually part of nature. The vast majority certainly are not and will continue to abuse and pillage the earth until it is so destroyed it can no longer support any of us while they ignorantly stick their heads in the sand. Well now they will get a big snout full of oil while they are doing it. As for humans being the best part of nature....I think its that way of thinking that fully proves we are actually probably one of the worst parts of it, if indeed we are even still an actual part at all.
Seriously, how stupid are people. This boat continued on its way after destroying our coastline and slicked oil in the Brisbane river too, as no one quite had the smarts to put any protective booms around it.
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 3:40:17 PM | | Hey how come we have to clean it up?, if the boats from china then send them all over here with shovels and start shovelling. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 3:43:09 PM | | The magnificent and magestic oceans have this funny unexplained way of cleaning themselves. It won't happen tommorow but it will happen. We are extremely insignificant in the big picture of this wide world. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 4:13:48 PM |
On yeah and oil, that's part of nature too.
Oil certainly is part of nature, but more when it is in the ground not when it is in the guts of a big ship.
The magnificent and magestic oceans have this funny unexplained way of cleaning themselves.
That would have to rate as a good head in the sand comment if ever I heard one, it can take decades for the ocean to manage to rid itself of anywhere near all the oil leaked into it at a time like this. In the meantime whole ecosystems are destroyed and changed forever......there is absolutely nothing "natural' about that.
I think in an ideal world yes, humans would be very insignificant in the big ecological picture.....unfortunately things are far from ideal and only getting worse. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 4:30:45 PM | I suppose you can look at it that way if you choose to.
My head isn't in the sand I just choose to look at things with an optomistic view point.
But then why not ?
Doom and gloom is the easy way.
Anyone can do that.
I might add maybe the awesome power of our great oceans is something many take for granted. Again we are so insignificant in the big picture. To think we aren't IMO is just I was going to say presumtious but I don't have a spell check.
Time for happy hour here.
Aloha.
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 6:48:13 PM |
My head isn't in the sand I just choose to look at things with an optomistic view point.
http://www.ted.com/talks/capt_charles_moore_on_the_seas_of_plastic.html
There's optimism, and there's ignorance. Turning a blind eye to our impact on the plant is ignorance. Hoping that there is still time for us to change it back is optimism. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/14/2009 7:08:12 PM | *
I agree you are optimistic and possibly ignorant if you think Anna Bligh meant anything other than the decision was based on financial reasons. She said the advice she was given was it "would be better to clean up the spill once it hit the beach" .... In other words it was cheaper in financial terms to let the wildlife suffer.
She, or should I say the party leaders (which she is not) obviously had the dollars in mind not the environment. If this wasnt so, the people who are losing their livelyhood because the tourists are just not coming atm would have been given more than an afterthought.
Shame on you Anna Bligh!
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 18 | |
| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 1:16:27 AM |
Sadly this oil will not disperse; it will mostly become hydrated and sink to the bottom. I read somewhere that it (eventually) breaks down (once it's killed lots of stuff)? But then again, it wouldn't surprise me if people found experts to say so just to appease our guilty conscience.
marcoola south copped the worst.. also the Kawana stretch...
some got into the maroochy river mangrove system around twin waters and goat Is...
apparently the overnight high tide sucked a lot of it off the beach and out to sea and it's dispersing..a lucky escape for the northern beaches... and the clean up is working..
Thanks for the update Beachippy.
If we arnt rapeing the planet of trees, filling the atmosphere with toxins, depleteing the seas of fish life, killing off different spieces of animals by destroyng habitats and still we go on breeding till at some point we will be standing shoulder to shoulder and someone will say well this planets about stuffed... I know what you mean...can be very disheartening at times.
Someone rescued and cleansed a seal of all the crude on camera.
After all their loving care they released the critter and on camera as soon as it was released an Orca whale immediately came in and swallowed the bugger whole.
It's only nature.
For those who say no it's caused by humans I say sorry we are part of nature and the best part period.
You think an Orca killing a seal to feed itself is on a par with dumping waste product into the ocean in such quantities that it wipes out every critter in the area and pollutes the environment for years to come? Interesting. Cos the Orca ate its prey, whereas this type of scenario leaves death and destruction in its wake and has nothing to do with us feeding ourselves. I wonder, if you so embrace senseless killing as something natural and therefore totally acceptable and not worth tut-tutting about, then how do you feel about our laws about not killing each other? Is that "against nature" in your eyes? Is a mass murderer simply doing what nature dictates?
Hey how come we have to clean it up?, if the boats from china then send them all over here with shovels and start shovelling.
I guess if someone comes over to your house and makes a mess then leaves, you end up being left to clean up. If you waited for them to do it, you'd be the one to most suffer.
There's optimism, and there's ignorance. Turning a blind eye to our impact on the plant is ignorance. Hoping that there is still time for us to change it back is optimism. Perfectly phrased. It's odd how anyone who wants to look at problems and solutions and prevention is considered "negative". I see those who couldn't give a rats as far more negative people.
people who are losing their livelyhood because the tourists are just not coming And there's a point to care about, for those out there who can't find a pang of feeling in them about animals dying slowly in sludge...the lost income in the tourism industry. Who wants to come holiday amongst the worst kind of human pollution? Wonder where we'll all holiday if we turned the whole planet into a toxic rubbish dump.
Thanks for sharing your opinions guys. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 1:56:41 AM | I'm aware of no credible information that states that 'the oceans are healing themselves'...., more to the contrary...., I am however..., very aware of so much information regarding how we humans are killing the oceans we need to sustain our very life.
To me, this is not doom and gloom. I think doom and gloom is where people know there's a problem and continue to ignore it and most tellingly ...., they 'Do Nothing'.
I think anyone can do that.
Sure not everyone will admit 'we' are the problem..., but hopefully there are enough of us willing take action...., regardless of whatever pain it brings..., we need to smarten up pretty damn soon in order to bring about a positive change. | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 20 | |
| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 3:07:39 AM |
I'm aware of no credible information that states that 'the oceans are healing themselves'...., more to the contrary...., That rings true to my ears, Sandy. The line of thought about "it will all heal no matter what we do" doesn't seem to be being backed up by the evidence we're seeing. But of course if we can kid ourselves about that, and dismiss the negative results we are causing, it allows us an excuse to continue to show no caution and feel no responsibility even when we see footage of animals drowning in oil sludge.
And an afterthought...
and oil, that's part of nature too. Hilly made a valid point about oil in nature not being found in the same form or location as where that ship put it. It's not as simple as saying something is found in nature, it's about the whole natural order of things. I mean, water is part of nature too, but I'd bet you wouldn't want 30 tonne of water dumped in your home. Fire is part of nature, but that doesn't mean we should go round setting fire to the bush. etc
Oh and meant to respond to this too
I suppose if you had your own gumboots she might be able to sneak you in as her “very youthful looking” mature age student. I will see what I can do. Miss Hilly gave me a rather embarassingly decorated pair of gumboots recently, but yes, I would jump at any opportunity to help the critters if I can be of any use. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 3:20:17 AM | | We live Bayside - swim, fish, surf etc............looks like our beautiful patch of Heaven now more spoilt than ever - have lived here for 30 years & it's out of our hands - the big dollar has again reared it's ugly head and destroyed | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 7:18:27 AM |
Miss Hilly gave me a rather embarrassingly decorated pair of gumboots recently, but yes, I would jump at any opportunity to help the critters if I can be of any use.
First one needs only recall the charming hat that Miss Hilly was wearing in a recent photograph, the one that was so mercilessly mocked by the tasteless, to be sure that the decorations on your gumboots, having been selected by her, cannot help but evidence the very epitome of good taste. The photograph in question is sadly no longer displayed; a vanished reminder that not all of us are able to recognise a genteel and sensitive soul when they happen upon one.
As for the marine biologist I have been trying to get hold of, I still haven’t had much luck. There was a brief exchange of texts; I thought I was contacting a world class expert who if she is not involved in this, will have colleagues who are, and got a response more typical of what you would expect from a daughter who is just too busy to deal with me right this second. So at the moment I don’t know if she is involved in this or what she and her colleagues think about it but I will try again tomorrow. It will be interesting to know just how serious, people who have devoted their lives to studying the marine environment and its inhabitants, think this is. I suppose it is a hopeful sign that our television screens have not yet, as far as I know, been filled with heart rending imagines of dead wildlife which so often accompany this kind of event. Let hope it stays that way. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 12:34:19 PM | When the powers that be began cleaning up the 10 million gallons of oil spilled in Alaska they eventually found out the were also destroying the very micorganisms that are capable of cleaning there own and were hence doing more harm than good.
You think an Orca killing a seal to feed itself is on a par
I'm not equating it with anything. It just reminded me of an amusing story that I hadn't thought about in years.
I don't follow the instant gratification mentality. It seems the most concern is focused on whether the next tourist season will be abundant or not.
As far as the ocean goes it will be just fine. Won't happen tomorrow but it will happen. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 1:13:31 PM | Most traces were non existant as soon as one year later. It played havoc on the wildlife for longer and the fishing industry isn't what it used to be there but fishing isn't what it used to be anywhere.
That was 400 million liters. | |
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| Moreton Bay - disaster zone
Posted: 3/15/2009 1:38:44 PM |
It seems the most concern is focused on whether the next tourist season will be abundant or not.
Where the government, sadly the people who control this clean up are concerned probably yes. To many posters in this thread me included, whether tourists suffer is the last thing on our minds in this situation. Personally I dont give a rats if tourists dont have pretty beaches to walk along or tour operators suffer...people reap what they sow.
It played havoc on the wildlife for longer
This is the important bit for me.If spending money to remove what we as humans contaminated the sea here with saves animal lives and helps prevent un necessary deaths and suffering then lets get going and clean this spill up.....maybe thats what you confuse for instant gratification.
Personally, I think Sandy said it as well as can be said.
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