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 Author Thread: The Real reason people lose their homes
 Wingsonmyfeet

Joined: 5/7/2008
Msg: 1
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/18/2009 4:56:31 PM
is that politicians have allowed lenders to charge the highest interest rates and higher fees to the people who can least afford them, on homes, automobiles, and all other forms of credit. Why do I feel our country has been taken over by rotten greedy people with business suits on?
AIG went broke losing bets on which poor people wouldn't be able to pay off their mortgages.
I just watched senator Dodd stand in front of TV cameras and lie about who in congress gave the AIG people bonuses, and when caught , admit doing it and say, but the White House was in on it too.
does anyone else see it like me, that the real reason this country is down the toilet is politicians in both parties listen to dollar signs more than constituents screaming in outrage?
 cpfstock

Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 2
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:19:54 PM
get a grip. first of all AIG employees got no bonuses for the year 2008. what they did recieve was retention payments for staying with AIG. these payments were contractually agreed to in 2007. and frankly you need to be glad those folks stayed an oversaw the unwinding of AIG's book of CDO's. Since Sept of last year they have cut AIG's book in half. Considering it started at 1.6 T that's quite an accomplishment. The alternative would have been for that book to blow up if you will. At that point banks all over the world would have been trying to grab assets in total chaos. The result would have been a financial disaster like you can not imagine.
BTW, the Treasury dept. has a representative(s) at every excutive meeting and board meeting at AIG. they knew of these payments.
Also just so you know some people pay higher rates for mortgages, cars, credit cards, etc. because they present a higher risk.
My advice to you would be don't grade, trade!
 kabiosile

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 3
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:22:08 PM
I think you are 100% correct here wings. I concur. Well put.

Further the credit card companies are out of control completely as well as was/is the lending for mortgages and other types of lending. It was permitted however by deregulation and the crew that is pushing this. Not trying to lay blame on one party or the other both had their hands in it. The fact still remains. You cannot allow these people to get away with whatever they feel like. There has to be regulations set in place and enforced to prevent this type of problem hopefully after we recover from this mess we will have learned it but, I do not hold my breath. We seem to have a very short memory these days.
 Ezzee

Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 4
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:26:11 PM

is that politicians have allowed lenders to charge the highest interest rates and higher fees to the people who can least afford them, on homes, automobiles, and all other forms of credit.


Yes, because normal people are stupid. They don't know anything. They are borderline mentally incapable of feeding themselves. That is why we need politicians to save us from ourselves.

PUHLEASE!!!!


Why do I feel our country has been taken over by rotten greedy people with business suits on?


Because the American Consumer has allowed them to become successful and become what they are.


AIG went broke losing bets on which poor people wouldn't be able to pay off their mortgages.


Yep, that's pretty much how it works. When you lend money to people who wouldn't be able to pay it back, you are going to go broke. And here come the smarter holier than thou politicians, on both the Republican and Democratic side of the aisle, to bail out a business that made poor decisions. You know, when most businesses make poor decisions, they go out of business without the US government bailing them out. Such hypocrisy


I just watched senator Dodd stand in front of TV cameras and lie about who in congress gave the AIG people bonuses, and when caught , admit doing it and say, but the White House was in on it too.
does anyone else see it like me, that the real reason this country is down the toilet is politicians in both parties listen to dollar signs more than constituents screaming in outrage?


I agree that that is part of the problem. However, I believe that problem the real problem is the American Consumer who can't figure out how to live within there means. American Express, Mastercard, and Visa all maxed out, a car that costs a yearly salary for them, and a house with a mortgage that is worth more than they will make in a lifetime all because they are too stupid to realize that credit and debt is a bad thing. If they realized and understood the concept of paying cash instead of putting everything on a piece of plastic, then we wouldn't be in this mess. But, I guess the original premise of the American consumer being stupid and needing saving from politicians is the answer.
 Wingsonmyfeet

Joined: 5/7/2008
Msg: 5
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:30:09 PM
oh come on, AIG told the government they's better pay those people because they said the government regulators weren't smart enough to decypher how they stole 400 billion dollars, and were afraid if they did unravel it all the AIG executives would end up in prison...Sure, they got rid of a bunch of it, they sold it to me an the rest of you, now we all own 400 billion dollars worth of poop
 kabiosile

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 6
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:32:49 PM


I agree that that is part of the problem. However, I believe that problem the real problem is the American Consumer who can't figure out how to live within there means. American Express, Mastercard, and Visa all maxed out, a car that costs a yearly salary for them, and a house with a mortgage that is worth more than they will make in a lifetime all because they are too stupid to realize that credit and debt is a bad thing. If they realized and understood the concept of paying cash instead of putting everything on a piece of plastic, then we wouldn't be in this mess. But, I guess the original premise of the American consumer being stupid and needing saving from politicians is the answer.


While I do agree with your sentiment to a degree, there also has to be taken into account that these companies do advertise in a manner that creates a culture that it is OK to put everything on the card. People grow up learning very bad habits that are perpetuated and even in many cases started by the way these companies try to increase their market share.

I own absolutely NO credit cards. I tear up every single letter they have sent me. If I cannot buy it with cash I dont need it but, I am a rare one indeed. You should have seen the lady at the bank trying to talk me into a credit card and the look she gave me when I told her if I cannot afford it I dont need it. She tried to sell it to me like a street corner preacher telling me I am going to hell if I dont join his church. It is not just the fault of the consumer but, also the fault of the credit industry as a whole. It takes two to tango my friend. We did not just get into trouble because of the companies nor because of the consumer. It took both to make the perfect storm.
 SteelCity1981

Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 7
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/18/2009 10:23:35 PM
I agree that both the financial sector and the consumer are to blame here. The financial companies for the longest time gave out ninja loans to just about anyone regardless of their collateral, credit or financial stability which allowed a lot of people to buy homes beyond their means. It was the perfect recipe for financial disaster.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 8
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/19/2009 8:29:18 PM
And there's a good reason that this same situation didn't occur in my country, and it's called government regulation. It's the same for a lot of other countries too, that had the same fiscal conservatism in place that prevented such abuse.

Look at the concentrated effort to rid America of the Glass-Steagall Act, which effectively allowed the fox into the henhouse.


The year before the repeal, sub-prime loans were just 5% of all mortgage lending. By the time the credit crisis peaked in 2008, they were approaching 30%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act#cite_note-14



The argument for preserving Glass-Steagall (as written in 1987):

1. Conflicts of interest characterize the granting of credit – lending – and the use of credit – investing – by the same entity, which led to abuses that originally produced the Act

2. Depository institutions possess enormous financial power, by virtue of their control of other people’s money; its extent must be limited to ensure soundness and competition in the market for funds, whether loans or investments.

3. Securities activities can be risky, leading to enormous losses. Such losses could threaten the integrity of deposits. In turn, the Government insures deposits and could be required to pay large sums if depository institutions were to collapse as the result of securities losses.

4. Depository institutions are supposed to be managed to limit risk. Their managers thus may not be conditioned to operate prudently in more speculative securities businesses. An example is the crash of real estate investment trusts sponsored by bank holding companies (in the 1970s and 1980s).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act#cite_note-14


Gee, twenty two years later, and look what happens ? Exactly the same things that lead to the Act being created ? Who could have guessed THAT would happen ?


The bill that ultimately repealed the Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (Republican of Texas) and in the House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa) in 1999. The bills were passed by Republican majorities on party lines by a 54-44 vote in the Senate and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives. After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bipartisan bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8 (1 not voting) and in the House: 362-57 (15 not voting). The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.

- Ibid


President Clinton could not have vetoed it, either, with the bipartisan support this had due to the intense lobbying effort that was focused on repealing this - and Republicans in power at the time (whose memory seems to be quite bad over their support of this, spearheaded by people like Gramm and Leach) were among the biggest cheerleaders.


On Oct. 21, with the House-Senate conference committee deadlocked after marathon negotiations, the main sticking point is partisan bickering over the bill's effect on the Community Reinvestment Act, which sets rules for lending to poor communities. Sandy Weill calls President Clinton in the evening to try to break the deadlock after Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, warned Citigroup lobbyist Roger Levy that Weill has to get White House moving on the bill or he would shut down the House-Senate conference. Serious negotiations resume, and a deal is announced at 2:45 a.m. on Oct. 22. Whether Weill made any difference in precipitating a deal is unclear.

On Oct. 22, Weill and John Reed issue a statement congratulating Congress and President Clinton, including 19 administration officials and lawmakers by name. The House and Senate approve a final version of the bill on Nov. 4, and Clinton signs it into law later that month.

Just days after the administration (including the Treasury Department) agrees to support the repeal, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the former co-chairman of a major Wall Street investment bank, Goldman Sachs, raises eyebrows by accepting a top job at Citigroup as Weill's chief lieutenant. The previous year, Weill had called Secretary Rubin to give him advance notice of the upcoming merger announcement. When Weill told Rubin he had some important news, the secretary reportedly quipped, "You're buying the government?"

http://tinyurl.com/cmcmmw


And the writing's been on the wall (street) for YEARS, and should come as no shock to anyone :


However, claims that there was no warning of the crisis were repudiated in an August 2008 article in the The New York Times, which reported that Richard F. Syron, the CEO of Freddie Mac, received a memo from David Andrukonis, the company's former chief risk officer in 2003, warning him that Freddie Mac was financing risk-laden loans that threatened Freddie Mac's financial stability. In his memo, Mr. Andrukonis wrote that these loans "would likely pose an enormous financial and reputational risk to the company and the country."The article revealed that more than two-dozen high-ranking executives said that Mr. Syron had simply decided to ignore the warnings. Other cautions came as early as 2001, when the late Federal Reserve governor Edward Gramlich warned of the risks posed by sub-prime mortgages.[36] Reuters reported in October 2007 that a Merrill Lynch analyst too had warned in 2006 that companies could suffer from their subprime investments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_housing_bubble


Economically, it was similar to the effect of dropping chum overboard on a boat, with every fiscal shark in the sea being drawn towards the easy feedings being offered up for anyone with the nose to sense it. The greed of the lenders matched perfectly with the greed of the homeowners, who counted on easy returns to pay back their investments - as the housing bubble grew. Those lenders were being warned of an inevitable collapse, and yet they continued to advertise such "easy money" to others, and hooked even more people - worsening the crisis.

All of this allowed by government intervention, paid off by lobbyists, who represented the sharks in the first place. None of it had to happen, but was allowed to happen. The proof for that, again, is that it DID NOT occur in many other Western industrial democracies, because they had rules in place to prevent it.

Banking should not be like rolling the dice in Vegas, in a wild drunken weekend, and that's something these people all conveniently forgot.

Lenders are the ones who decide WHO gets a loan, and it's their duty to ensure those people can pay the bills.
 Murco

Joined: 8/26/2008
Msg: 9
The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:57:41 PM

And there's a good reason that this same situation didn't occur in my country, and it's called government regulation. It's the same for a lot of other countries too, that had the same fiscal conservatism in place that prevented such abuse

Our issue stems all the way back to 1977 with the "community reinvestment act" when Carter proposed easing credit standards so that minority home ownership would rise. In 1997 Clinton upped the ante allowing Freddie Mac and Fannie Mac to change the debt to assets ratios for the corporation (which was pretty much federalized at that point) forcing other banks to lower thier lending standards. When I applied for a mortgage in 2004 I made $48,000 a year and had a wife in school full time. I was told I could buy a house up to $365,000 with an interest only loan for the first 5 years, making my payments $1230/month. I wanted a conventional loan for $135,000 and was told no lender was going to even look at a loan under $150K... Eventually, the debt ceiling was raised to 33 to 1 for lenders, by government regulators. I think we would have been better off WITHOUT the government regulation!
 Acoustic-Blues

Joined: 7/19/2008
Msg: 10
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 12:56:03 PM
The only reason people lose their homes is because they stop making payments.
 gizmosellschickens

Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 11
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 3:13:43 PM
People lose homes from bad luck reasons. On the otherhand, certain people are dumb engouh like lenders to give NINJA loans to anybody on 500k house. Also, you have people that are plain mathetically illiterate when it comes to the knowing true cost of owning a home. The big banks like Citigroup, Warcovia, Bank of Americas should die by market forces and not prop up. Also, people that knew got NINJA loans knowing they could not afford the house should not recieve help from the taxpayer ethier. Financail literacy needs to be thaught in middle school and high school so next generation of childern know that debt fueled lifestlyes leave little for retirement when most will need money for healthcare cost. This housing crisis gonna take 5 to 10 years to correct because the excessive supply of homes, and the excessive debt that needs to be cleared off cosumer balance sheets.
People lose homes trying to keep up with the Joneses should not get help from the taxpayer ethier. US goverment should end tax deduction for interest payments on mortgages because it only encourages tax benefits to take on more debt. Canada does not have interest deduction in thier tax c0de to allow leverage of debt like that and home ownership percentages are similar.
 southernlass

Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 12
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 5:15:55 PM
People lose their homes because they bought more home than they could afford.

I would have loved to have a lavish four bedroom, two bath, two car garage, on five or more acres. Unfortunately, on my budget that is not realistic. I have a small, comfortable place that is nothing lavish but is cozy and pleasant, on one acre. It's paid off. I planned my home and property based upon living within my means, planning for a few rainy days in my future, and wanting to be sure that I never put myself into the position where I would be out on the street.

Now I'm definitely no financial wizard but if I could do this, I'm not sure why the rest of America couldn't as well.
 kabiosile

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 13
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 5:32:41 PM


People lose their homes because they bought more home than they could afford.



While there may be a few people that this holds true on.. You actually believe that this is the only cause of such a huge issue? You do not know about the type of loans that were put on some people? You do not think the financial meltdown had anything to do with it? ie people could afford their house they bought before they lost their job due to something that had nothing to do with them? It goes WELL beyond the few people whom might have bit off more than they could chew.
 southernlass

Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 14
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 5:45:13 PM
Again, anyone can lose a job. Most people have to figure out what they are going to do should the inevitable happen. There are a variety of options that are possible as well.

The movie "Kit Kitteridge" suggests that many took in borders in the days of the Depression in order to make their mortgages. So why not now? Loans, loss of job...all of this has to be taken into account before one purchases a home, vehicle, etc.

No one is bailing me out. I'm still waiting on my bail out. It has not arrived. Until it does, I'm not at all sure why we are bailing out the few while the many must struggle on and figure it out for themselves. NOT FAIR.
 kabiosile

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 15
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 6:03:16 PM


The movie "Kit Kitteridge" suggests that many took in borders in the days of the Depression in order to make their mortgages. So why not now? Loans, loss of job...all of this has to be taken into account before one purchases a home, vehicle, etc.



The way things are going right now it will not even be all that easy for people to find renters that will be able to pay the mortgage. Selling is also not an option most of us owe more than the houses are worth now. It is not so simple lass.




No one is bailing me out. I'm still waiting on my bail out. It has not arrived. Until it does, I'm not at all sure why we are bailing out the few while the many must struggle on and figure it out for themselves. NOT FAIR.


I agree our system is not fair and I agree the bail outs are not fair. I agree that it sucks and we need to find long term solutions that help the others not getting bail outs. Care to offer some suggestions? I also as much as I cant stand it and would love to see positive changes to something more fair, understand that you cannot just let the system fall to shambles and watch people starve and have some sort of social Darwinism. (survival of the fittest as you say.) I doubt you or many others here will survive. You are wishing for mass suicide. Unless you know how to grow your own food, and totally live off the grid you will be toast if what you are wishing for comes to be.

I am one who does have a good bit of those skills and I would NEVER wish for that to come to pass. I think we need to work together to get ourselves out of this mess. I agree with you in some ways. It is beyond unfair and not ideal at all but, sadly since an unfair system was allowed to be established in the first place, an unfair solution is going to happen to perpetuate the unfair system. I am all for coming up with ways to change the system but, again I stress an overnight solution will be far more detrimental than what already is. It must be done slowly with much thought and allow for the overall parts to adapt to the changes. Sadly that means making some moves that are less than desirable.
 sweetness-one

Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 16
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 6:12:11 PM

It goes WELL beyond the few people whom might have bit off more than they could chew.


I'll agree with this to some extent, although I have to say, losing a job is nothing 'new' exactly, whether it be in this day and age, or in times past when the economy was booming....so it's not just necessarily job losses that are causing so many people to lose their homes these days, although the current economy is certainly contributing to that.

I think a huge part of it goes back to what Montreal Guy said, that government regulation is a huge factor. In Canada, every mortgage that gets loaned out is insured by CMHC (Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation), which is a Federal Government regulated programme that monitors debt-to-income ratio of everyone getting pre-approved, and sets guidelines such that no mortgage can be granted if the person applying doesn't meet those specifications.

So perhaps a better term might be to say responsible goverment regulation? In Canada, everyone applying for the loan, no matter what their credit rating....assuming their CR is good enough to even qualify, can then shop around competetively for the best rate possible. (As in, a poor CR doesn't mean one will have a higher interest rate...if one's approved, then one is approved, doesn't mean squat where the interest rate is concerned). Floating interest rate loans and ARMS are completely different in Canada as well; again, I'm thinking probably due to government regulation.

I think a huge part of it really is, banks down south being too willing to loan money to people that they know are bad investments in the first place, but really, is anyone surprised that the bank doesn't really care about that? Even in this current day, yep, the banks are obviously losing a lot of money on a lot of mortgages these days...but I'm not really thinking they're entirely losing their shirts on them, put it that way. And to some extent...well, I know that with my mortgage, damned straight I read the fine print many times over, made sure all my i's were dotted and t's were crossed, so that there were no surprises. And really, no one should be surprised or come crying that the bank is actually expecting them to repay the loan they agreed to when they signed on that dotted line. Biggest loan anyone will ever take out in their life, so why wouldn't one go over the fine print with a fine-tooth comb before signing??

I rather liken this in some ways, to those furniture stores that each city has (ie--it was The Brick in Canada, and in my local area, it's Haynes)...you know, those "buy now and do not pay till 2010" sorts of deals. And, they aren't stupid...it's probably a pretty high percentage of people who DON'T actually "pay by 2010"...in which case they already have their own financial company in place (in Canada, it was the Associates aka Citi Financial, and I'm guessing probably Citi Bank in the US? not sure) ready to step in, assume the loan, and then go after the purchaser...to the tune of 32% interest.

There's never anything in life for free, or "do not pay till".... JMO.
 kabiosile

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 17
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/23/2009 7:45:05 PM
Oh I absolutely agree that lack of regulation set up the situation for big trouble. It is the main cause for sure. My point was that it is far more complex than just everyone bit off more than they could chew.

I also agree losing jobs is nothing new but, the extent that it is happening is something new and quite unexpected. So to just say that people bought more than they could afford is the reason. I believe is an excuse the republicans and some of the democrats who also had their hands in it are making to try to lay blame elsewhere than their failed experiment with deregulation.
 Therightone4unow

Joined: 2/13/2009
Msg: 18
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The Real reason people lose their homes
Posted: 3/24/2009 10:37:46 AM
If you couldn't go bankrupt on these loans and credit cards...people would not have let themselves get into that mess in the first place.

Also if you can't get a standard mortgage, then you have no business buying a house anyway. Home ownership is a privilege, not a right. Same with your car payments. Pay your bills...so guys like me wont come and take your car away.
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