| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/7/2009 2:43:00 PM | I joke about Vermont being full of quiche eating New Yorkers and pot feeding hog farmers all the time. In all seriousness it is truly wonderful to see that the duly elected legislators of that GREAT State have not only read the Consitution of the United States but have also ingested the veracity that there is no freedom if it is applied selectively with complete contempt for the actual substance of greatness in the Consitution of The United States. These dominoes of ignorant and entirely un-American predjudice are starting to fall in earnest my friends.
Congratulations on your doing the right thing Vermont. May others follow your inevitable path of enlightened understanding sooner than later. Fitting that such great steps are taken by the people that gave us all "The Long Trail."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/us/08vermont.html?_r=1&hp  | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/7/2009 7:36:56 PM | Congratulations on your doing the right thing Vermont. May others follow your inevitable path of enlightened understanding sooner than later. Fitting that such great steps are taken by the people that gave us all "The Long Trail."
I agree!
Thank you, Vermont, for setting such a strong example of equality and compassion. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/7/2009 9:19:50 PM |
the duly elected legislators of that GREAT State
I'm willing to concede that these were duly elected officials but, and here is my question. Did these same legislators vote the will of their electorate or bow down to the will of a yet another special interest group in hopes of benefiting from future elections?
The majority obviously put these people in power to speak for them. But, were those people truly voting for what the total population desired? From what I read in that article, I'm not so certain that the will of the people was served. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/7/2009 10:34:55 PM | I wonder what the US supreme court will rule....what about the appeals courts?
Will they overrule the state or let it be...
I say, let it be.....
I do not agree with the behavior of the gays and lesbians and marriage, but that is just the point...I do not have to like it, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR RIGHTS... | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 4:08:50 AM | I wonder how long it will take before straight guy-guy friends and straight lady-lady friends figure out that if they get married they can help their uninsured friend get health insurance from their work by getting married. They could also get more taxes back at the end of the year if they get married. There are some very real benefits for single straight males and females here as well. All it takes is a very good friend, a pre-nup, and a silly little ceremony at the courthouse. Heck, ya don't even have to get dressed up or kiss...lol.. Then sit back and let the benefits roll on in..Aint America great!!
Hopefully someday I can legally marry my Mother. She needs better health coverage and my work has good coverage. Plus the extra tax return money is always welcome each year. And like many of you have said--Its nobodies business's who marries who!! Plus we love each other! (That is in sarcasam. I don't really want to marry my Mom)
But I do hope and pray that single, straight men and women who are friends get married and use the governments own policies against them to get a financial gain!
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 7:30:42 AM |
I wonder how long it will take before straight guy-guy friends and straight lady-lady friends figure out that if they get married they can help their uninsured friend get health insurance from their work by getting married. They could also get more taxes back at the end of the year if they get married. There are some very real benefits for single straight males and females here as well. All it takes is a very good friend, a pre-nup, and a silly little ceremony at the courthouse. Heck, ya don't even have to get dressed up or kiss...lol.. Then sit back and let the benefits roll on in..Aint America great!!
I think you would be surprised at how many Gay and Lesbian people are currently married. I know several couples who are married and I can tell you it ain't for love. It's extremely easy for a gay male and a lesbian female to be married to each other and receive all of the benefits.
Hopefully someday I can legally marry my Mother. She needs better health coverage and my work has good coverage. Plus the extra tax return money is always welcome each year. And like many of you have said--Its nobodies business's who marries who!! Plus we love each other! (That is in sarcasam. I don't really want to marry my Mom)
Well, marriage is definitely out of the question because there is legal and medical research showing that incest is detrimental, as well as historical evidence showing the effects.
However, I do know a way that you can benefit from getting extra tax money every year using your mother as well as getting your mother on your health coverage. But that would be a completely different topic all together.
But I do hope and pray that single, straight men and women who are friends get married and use the governments own policies against them to get a financial gain!
So it is ok for straight men and women to use a legal loophole, but it isn't ok for a gay and lesbian touse a legal loophole like they have been doing for years? | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 8:13:12 AM | I am amazed that the government feels it has the right to tell people who are doing no harm to anyone what they can or cannot do.
I think it's time for the people to stand up against any law that violates peoples rights to freedom of choice.
The government says that if I find a mushroom that they don't approve of growing in my yard, I am forbidden to eat it, even if it does me no harm and doesn't harm anyone else..
What kind of bullshit is that?
And what about plants?
How does the government think they have the right to tell me what plants I can grow ?
If people are not harming anyone, then why are they being persecuted?
Isn't this supposed to be a free country?
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 10:04:46 AM | Maybe someday polygamy will also be legal.
It never stops amazing me to see the very same women whom support gay/lesbian marriage also many times fiercely oppose any sort of legalization of polygamy. Thats kind of a double standard isn't it?
Afterall we don't choose who we fall in love with. And if we can re-write the laws for one group of people, then why not another group of people? Such as the polygamist.....
We should show "equality and compassion" towards all goups of people. (Just like the poster at message 3 stated)
Polygamy has been around since the dawn of time. Lets do the right thing already and show this group some equality and compassion.
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Jim978
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Joined: 7/15/2008
Msg: 15 | |
| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 10:56:15 AM |
I wonder what the US supreme court will rule....what about the appeals courts?
Will they overrule the state or let it be...
I say, let it be.....
I do not agree with the behavior of the gays and lesbians and marriage, but that is just the point...I do not have to like it, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR RIGHTS...
The US Supreme Court and the Appeals Courts aren't going to rule on anything specific to this particular change in VT law because it isn't something they can rule on. The States control the laws as far as who can or can't marry and if VT decides this is the way they want to go, that is their choice. There is no question about the State Legislature's authority to pass laws within their boundries for a Court to rule on.
For as as the OP goes - With all of the activity in the other Northeast states in this arena and VT's status as the 1st to recognize civil unions, I'm surprised it has taken them so long to get on board. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 10:56:30 AM | Instead of turning this into a slippery slope argument about polygamy and incest, why not just talk about the real topic. Seriously, Critical Thinking 101, if you can not come up with a better argument then a logical fallacy, then you have conceded and lost the debate.
The US Supreme Court and the Appeals Courts aren't going to rule on anything specific to this particular change in VT law because it isn't something they can rule on. The States control the laws as far as who can or can't marry and if VT decides this is the way they want to go, that is their choice. There is no question about the State Legislature's authority to pass laws within their boundries for a Court to rule on.
There is always the possibility of some group bringing a lawsuit against the state of Vermont in regards to this law which could move upto the Supreme Court, so there is the possibility. I'd have to do further research but I don't see the Supreme Court taking the case or overturning the law on the issue of Constitutionality however. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 11:02:58 AM |
Hopefully someday I can legally marry my Mother.
You can move to El Darado Texas and get started...
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I dont know where this idea that "The Church" had exclusivity to Marriage came from, but seems to me that humans have been forming family unions way before organized religion were formed...
This notion that When Moses came down from the mount and threw those stone tablets at his countrymen, that we All have to march in a single file to his Suggestions...
I eat pork, I occasionaly work on saturday, I dont worship at gravin images, but if that is your thing...knock yourself out...
Our Forefather left whereever they were to escape the bullshit of the day...I'm gonna honor mine by saying...enough bullshit. The church and The State can stay out of Joe and Lucy Public's bedroom....as well as Steve and Adam Public's . | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 11:16:19 AM | I don't give a rat who anyone marries. If I want to be single though....different story. Perhaps I want to claim "single" on my taxes...BY LAW, even though I am NOT married, I have to claim that dubious honour, or I am in violation of the laws! I have to say I am married, or, at least, in a partnership with someone else and have to claim them on MY forms. Well...the Marriage Act says that it is illegal for anyone to force an arranged marriage on anyone in this country! Hello!!!! The tax department just DID that very thing...not onl;y violating the laws, but my rights also!
Anyways....
Has anyone every figured out the protocols for a gay marriage? I've asked, but never gottena good answer. Seems there should be some "traditional" things involved...but I am darned if I know! Who stands on the "brides" side of the alter? (The one who leads during a dance?) Is it "husband and husband"? Or "Wife and wife"? Would anyone even recognize a ceremony if they managed to fall into one?
Who throws the bouquet? Do they even have one? Firing a garter into the crowd? What? | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 11:26:30 AM |
Instead of turning this into a slippery slope argument about polygamy and incest, why not just talk about the real topic
While some of us were being flippant, we were also trying to make a real point. Legalizing gay marriage is only only about the rights of people to conduct certain types of business. Along with the benefits of doing business within a gay marriage will also come the disadvantages of the dissolution of gay marriages, namely divorce.
For all the years I've been an adult and tuned into the trials and tribulations of divorce, I've heard how women have all the laws on their side. I've heard how men have the economic advantages on their side. With the advent of marriage between gays, the perception of laws will become very cloudy. In fact, the perception of marriage and the family unit will change.
There are very real correlations between the taboos of incestuous marriages, polygamous marriages, and gay marriages. Why should one be legal and others are not? It is, after all, the same thing. If gays have a Constitutional right to legal recognition of marriage, then so should other groups.
When the guidelines are that gay marriages don't hurt anyone, then should that guideline also be applicable to all groups that are presently prohibited from marriage?
This is truly the principle of the squeeky hinge gets the oil. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 1:59:11 PM |
"There are very real correlations between the taboos of incestuous marriages, polygamous marriages, and gay marriages. Why should one be legal and others are not? It is, after all, the same thing. If gays have a Constitutional right to legal recognition of marriage, then so should other groups.
absolutely, although the polygamists you are probably talking about are most likely mormons and they only walk a one way street. if polygamous marriage is legal it has to be a two way street and I don't see the mormons moving to allow women to marry multiple men. (be a cold day in hell when that happens). all legal issues, particularly those relating to children would have to be worked out.
When the guidelines are that gay marriages don't hurt anyone, then should that guideline also be applicable to all groups that are presently prohibited from marriage?
see above but if you can't figure out the problems with children in polygamous and incestous marriages you need to do somethinking here.
This is truly the principle of the squeeky hinge gets the oil."
welcome to democracy. those other groups are free to make their legal case.
I saw a fascinating article on the economic impact that this might have on a small state like vermont. I wish I could find it. the projections were showing that this has a the potential to be a huge windfall for vermont. if it is, my bet is that given the current economic conditions there, gay marriage will be pretty popular. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 2:45:12 PM |
There are very real correlations between the taboos of incestuous marriages, polygamous marriages, and gay marriages. Why should one be legal and others are not?
Because those Christian taboos --and they are Christian taboos. There are Other o religions that have no problems with polyamorous marriage and gay marriage-- have no legal bearing in a nation where secularism rules.
The rules that prohibit incest are based on science, and not tradition. When gay marriages results in inbreeding, you might have a point. Until then, your thinking is just bizarre
It is, after all, the same thing.
Actually, it's not the same thing. Not even close.
If gays have a Constitutional right to legal recognition of marriage, then so should other groups.
Why does the statement "If heterosexuals have a constitutional right to marriage then so should other groups" make no sense to you, but the above statement does make sense?
When the guidelines are that gay marriages don't hurt anyone, then should that guideline also be applicable to all groups that are presently prohibited from marriage?
When the guidelines are that hetero marriages don't hurt anyone, then should that guideline also be applicable to all groups that are presently prohibited from marriage? | |
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Jim978
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Joined: 7/15/2008
Msg: 22 | |
| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 2:54:00 PM |
I saw a fascinating article on the economic impact that this might have on a small state like vermont. I wish I could find it. the projections were showing that this has a the potential to be a huge windfall for vermont. if it is, my bet is that given the current economic conditions there, gay marriage will be pretty popular.
Not trying to sidetrack the thread here but IMO, VT missed any major economic benefit at this point. With MA and CT already having gay marriage they are "just another state" that joins the club in this region. These are all just to close to each other for there to be much impact.
In another part of the country where bordering states didn't allow gay marriage the impact would be significantly greater. Iowa may see some major impact from their law change, for example. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 3:39:24 PM |
Maybe someday polygamy will also be legal.
It never stops amazing me to see the very same women whom support gay/lesbian marriage also many times fiercely oppose any sort of legalization of polygamy. Thats kind of a double standard isn't it?
Afterall we don't choose who we fall in love with. And if we can re-write the laws for one group of people, then why not another group of people? Such as the polygamist.....
We should show "equality and compassion" towards all goups of people. (Just like the poster at message 3 stated)
Polygamy has been around since the dawn of time. Lets do the right thing already and show this group some equality and compassion.
I support same-sex marriage and I am opposed to polygamy, and no, it isn't a double standard. You bring up two separate issues.
If you want to begin the process of making polygamy legal, hop on it. | |
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| Honoring The 14th Ammendment To The US Constitution: Bravo Green Mountaineers!
Posted: 4/8/2009 3:56:48 PM |
The rules that prohibit incest are based on science, and not tradition. When gay marriages results in inbreeding, you might have a point. Until then, your thinking is just bizarre
Incest includes any blood members of a family including second and third cousins. I have not bothered to look up the statistics, but it would be difficult to imagine the perils of inbreeding between fairly distant cousins would be much higher than those between random matches.
Why does the statement "If heterosexuals have a constitutional right to marriage then so should other groups" make no sense to you, but the above statement does make sense
Perhaps the poster is a tad confused. No where did I write that statement didn't make sense to me.
, although the polygamists you are probably talking about are most likely mormons and they only walk a one way street
Nope, I was thinking of anyone who might want to be married to more than one person at the same time.
see above but if you can't figure out the problems with children in polygamous and incestous marriages you need to do somethinking here.
I can also see problems with children in gay and lesbian marriages. As I wrote in my previous post, we will all have to rethink our views of families. | |
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