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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 4:27:09 AM | I am 31 years old, but started dating this 21 year old girl. We were together for 9 months. I was just coming out of a 3 year marriage. So she had to explain to her parents that she was dating a 31 year old guy that just left his wife. But the two of us NEVER argued or anything. We fell deeply in love.
Then around 5 months into the relationship things started to really settle down. I got my own place; was living with friends, so we were constantly around people. And she pretty much just stayed over every night for the next 4 months. We gradually started to argue.
She pretty much stopped wanting sex. I know, I know... girls have a lower libido. But I am talking like once every two weeks, and only after days of me trying to initiate it. So our first arguments were over me not accepting her lack of sexual desire, and turning sex into a "heavy issue" instead of keeping it light and fun. I am a very adaptable person so I just stopped pressuring her, and decided to control myself and see if me backing off would help bring her around. It didn't work, but the arguing did get better.
But then we started to argue about other things. She started to fly off the handle. If I would be in a less than perfect mood, she just couldn't handle it. I am a thinker, so when she'd ask me a question I'd want to think about it before I'd answer. If I took more than 3 seconds to answer her questions, she'd fly off the handle that I was ignoring her or trying to control the conversation and also the relationship. She couldn't cook, and now claims that I never thought of her as a proper woman because she couldn't sew or cook. I am a chef that trained for 4 years in Europe. I would NEVER have given off the slightest impression that I wanted her to cool. Hell, I didn't want her to cook. That is my passion. I mean we argued about everything. Once her head was in my lap while we watched TV and I told her I needed to pee and stood up slowly to go to the bathroom. She SNAPPED that I stood up too fast.
I bought her nice gifts. I put gas in her car. I even stuffed money in her wallet when I knew she was broke so that she would always at least have some security money. I gave her emergency money when she went on a trip. And I did ALL of this without her ever knowing. I never wanted her to find out, because I knew that she would feel indebted to me, which I didn't want at all. I am not some kind of sugar-daddy. I just wanted to make sure that she had SOMETHING, and $20 here and there means nothing to me. But then when the arguing started, I began to feel taken advantage of.
I know it's stupid, because I wanted her to not feel indebted to me, but then I must have been subconsciously holding it against her. I once needed a ride to work because some kid hit me from behind and totaled my car. She nervously said, "Good luck with that! I'm late for work myself." and walked out the door, even though we work 5 miles apart. So I started to mention to her that I felt I was carrying more of the load in this relationship. Which of course made her even more mad and argumentative.
The final straw came when I had been doing the dishes for two months straight, and finally asked her if she could finish them. She said okay, but never did. For two weeks they piled up. And then one night I just finally said, "Could you PLEASE at least help me with the dishes." She exploded! She went on about how I never think she does anything in this relationship, and she took care of me for three days while I was sick with the flu (which she did), and how I didn't care for her as kindly when she fell ill with the same flu soon thereafter (which is also true).
Anyway... during the dish fiasco, she asked me if I even wanted to continue this relationship, and I said NO! So she gave me back my key, and stormed home. I haven't seen her since. (2 weeks), I calmed down over the next week, and finally wanted to call her to work things out. She doesn't want to see me, talk to me, or anything.
So now I've started to look like some obsessive freak. For three days I would sent her 15 text messages trying to get her to talk to me. I called her 20 times trying to get her to answer the phone. I wrote her two four page letters desperate to get her to at least help me understand what went wrong and why we started arguing so much. But I got nothing but her saying, "PLEASE... just leave it. We are not going to work this out. This whole thing hurts us both too much. Just take care and leave it alone."
So I think I have finally calmed down. I finally got out of her some of the reasons we started arguing. She feltI was trying to oppress her and turn her into some domestic wife that she just will never be. She said I never accepted her the way she is, and that I looked down on her like some child that needed to grow up. I have racked my brain trying to figure out if any of this is true.
Now I have finally reached a place in my mind where I can see that it doesn't matter AT ALL if I honestly feel I did all that, she feels that I did. I realize now that by me making an innocent comment that I liked her hair in a picture, and that I'd like to see her with long hair, probably made her feel that I wanted her to change. And that when she'd fly off the handle at me about what I thought was nothing, and I'd tell her that she needed to grow up! That added to the feeling that I didn't accept her how she was. Anyway, I realize now that I did do a lot of things that made her see me as someone trying to change her and act like her daddy.
Anyway... I see all these things now, and have a lot of regrets. I don't want to beat myself to a pulp about it, because I certainly love her and didn't do any of it on purpose. I just couldn't see. Now I do. But do you think that she will ever come around and we can try to work things out? Honestly I know that most of you will say, "Just forget about her dude and find someone your own age." But you will just have to believe me that when we were good, things were GREAT! I have a couple of girls that call me now, but I don't even want to go there. I love and miss my girlfriend. I want her back. Am I just a loser?
Please tell me what you think, will she come around?
Thanks ladies. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 4:51:41 AM | A ten-year age gap doesn't make as much difference when folks are in their '50s and '60s, but it does make a much bigger difference in their '20s and '30s.
No matter how mature a 21-year-old may appear to be, she is still only 21. Adult life is just beginning for her and she has a whole lot of living to do before settling down into domestic bliss.
You have a lot of experience behind you. You know what married life is like. You've probably accomplished certain career goals, etc. and are likely on a path that is well-thought out. At 21, it is very, very difficult to even determine what one wants in 6 months, let alone 5 years.
Even though you never tried to 'control' her, it could still feel like that to someone her age, simply because of your own age. It's not your fault. That's just the way it is.
It sounds as if your relationship began to unravel once you began 'living together' for all intents and purposes. That's when you really get to know someone and whether you can tolerate each others' personalities and quirks on a day-to-day basis. Sex is the least of it. It's all the other mundane tasks of everyday life that can become the dealbreaker. It just doesn't sound like you two were that compatible.
Maybe she wasn't really in love with you. Maybe she just thought she was.
I would say that you need to let her go and accept that she meant what she said. In the meantime, don't become a hermit and wait for her to reappear because that may never happen. Please do get out there and at least allow yourself to become friends with some new women. Go out for coffee, dancing, drinks, whatever...just have some laughs and start getting to know some new people.
I know it does sound cliche, but time does heal all wounds and your perspective will become much clearer as time goes on. I know how sad you feel because I am also coming to grips with a breakup of my own and am having a hard time letting go of the idea that he may come back some day, even though deep down in my heart that he won't be.
Marjatta | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 5:16:57 AM | | I always hate when people come to POF and ask a bunch of strangers about someone we never met. You seem like a nice guy that just made mistakes so I'll give you my 3 cents. You didn't even give yourself time after your divorce to find out who you are. Dating changed. Women don't want to be "molded" - she is who she is. You need to find out what you want and you don't need to be anyone's Daddy. Relationships work two ways ... you do for her she does for you. There isn't any "me me me" ... she probably helped your ego after the divorce but now you have to find your own balance without someone there. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 5:18:25 AM | Ouch!
But I think you are right. My only thing is, I don't really want her "back". I mean, I don't want her back the way we were. I was depressed. I didn't realize it at the time, but looking back, all we ever did was stay over at my house. We stopped hanging out with friends. We were both having money troubles so we convinced ourselves that we couldn't afford to go out etc. In retrospect, we (or at least I) wasted a lot of money in one area that should have been channeled into getting me (or us) out of the rut of night after night of couch surfing.
She is in college, so she was under a tremendous amount of pressure. She also just lost a really important job, and had taken a new much less stressful but much less prestige. She basically went from being an executive director of a non-profit organization to a coffee shop girl. So she felt like a failure.
I was working ALL THE TIME, and so the only time we had together was the couple of hours on the couch some nights. I work all weekend when she had off, and I had two days during the week off when she was at school. So we could never take trips etc.
We both just kind of settled into a pathetic and depressed situation.
So no, I don't want THAT back! But I do love her with all of my heart. Because now I've been able to save some money, and I got a settlement check for the guy that hit me from behind. I scaled back my work schedule, and have spent a great deal of time alone to clear my head. I definitely think that the fact that I am still typing all this stuff on this website proves that I am not "over it all", and that I am not ready to be back with her or anyone else right now this second.
But sure, I would love to give it another shot with my ex-girlfriend. I would want to have it where she spent 5 or 6 nights a week apart from me instead of the opposite. I want everything to be "Dutch" as far as money goes. I think I gave her so many hundreds of dollars over the relationship and took her everywhere she needed to be and picked her up etc. I think I just built up resentment whenever she didn't do what I thought was enough for me. So I want to split the check (not always of course), and we both kind of just rely on ourselves for things instead of each other.
But anyway, I am sure you are right about our ages. She is 21 years old. When I really stop and think, it is so crazy that we ever even got together. But she just never seemed 21. She was really smart so she skipped a grade and had a strange birthday, so she like graduated from high school at 17 and already had a lot of college classes done. So even though she is 21, she's been in college for four years. And she had a LOT of experience in life. Her parents are very worldly people. She has been to every state in the US, and like 20 countries.
Anyway, I just want her back, but on a much more low-key chilled out level. Not so much "I love you. I love you." and a little more just accepting that we have to remain individuals and not become some "eternal couple". I was only asking if you thought that she would come around, or in general when girls say that it's over... do they really mean it? Or will she call me in a month? | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 5:25:30 AM |
Anyway, I just want her back, but on a much more low-key chilled out level. Not so much "I love you. I love you." and a little more just accepting that we have to remain individuals and not become some "eternal couple". I was only asking if you thought that she would come around, or in general when girls say that it's over... do they really mean it? Or will she call me in a month?
Do you see any "control" issues here? You get what you get. You couldn't get through the turbulent times - what will happen when they hit again? You cannot control that things are good now - what if they don't stay that way? You are putting conditions on this relationship and she isn't even in the picture. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 5:47:31 AM | THE REASON YOU CANNOT CONTROL THINGS THAT ARE GOOD NOW...someone wrote that above. Sorry, missed your name...credit to you though.
...is BECAUSE things ARE GOING WELL FOR YOU...AND YOU WANT TO LET GO OF THE CONTROL...So there is nothing to DO EXCEPT LIKE YOURSELF...isn't it FUN...I pray people read this and understand what that person wrote.
I love these forums...I get so into this and love to express, I think I am in the wrong field... Too much schooling to have been a Doctor for me... | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 6:25:30 AM |
Do you see any "control" issues here? You get what you get. You couldn't get through the turbulent times - what will happen when they hit again? You cannot control that things are good now - what if they don't stay that way? You are putting conditions on this relationship and she isn't even in the picture.
Wow "StillUnraveling" you certainly are jumping all over me. But I get it. You might be right. In my mind, I was trying to take all the pressure out of the relationship and give HER the room to breathe that she probably never had with me before. If I were trying to honestly control her, I would have her over everyday massaging my back, and listening to my woes about life and the world. Because I LOVE a good back rub, and I LOVE to talk about myself (who doesn't).
But you know, you still might be right. If there is one thing that I've learned, it is that whenever you feel like saying, "How dare [he/she] say that?!? That's now how I am! I am always..." you are probably wrong. Or at least blind to something that you ARE doing.
Basically we'd all have to be Leonard Cohen or some Zen Buddhist if we were all able to just accept everything as it is, and truly live in the here-and-now all the time. Relationships would come in and out of our lives like scattered leaves from trees. I honestly believe that we should all strive to let go of everything that we want to hold on to, relax and breathe and feel our own self-worth and just try to navigate through the currents of life instead of trying to swim against them. That would be my "living on a mountain side" paradise of life.
But the reality is, I can't always see when I am not accepting someone or trying to change them. In my head and heart I am honestly always thinking of the other person's feelings, and trying to make things easier on them. Or less stressful. I think that is where I go wrong. I should mind my own business, and let them figure out for themselves what would make them less stressed or how to deal with things.
I just have so much experience with all the problems she is having in life. I was 21 like 10 seconds ago it feels like, and I can remember putting off school work, not taking care of my body, feeling overwhelmed and thinking that it was the world that had it in for me. I just watched her struggle with so many of the same things I did, and my advice must have just never felt like advice. It must have felt like judgment and reproach. But it was all honestly out of love and hope that I could help her.
But for all I know, people would say that I was actually just trying to vicariously make up for my own past mistakes, like some father that forces his kid to play little league because he never made the all-star team himself. It certainly never felt that way, but like I said, I cant tell anymore which way is up or down. I just thought I was trying to love her the only way I knew how. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 6:27:45 AM | I understand, but the 15 text messages and 20 messages and writing 4 page letters to her wasn't going to endear yourself to her.
You're not a loser, but honestly you're going to have to let go and start looking at those girls that are interested in you. No sense in wasting your time in something that's not going to be.
And let's say you did get back together with her, how long before her next outburst? A week? A month? Not worth your time bro,in my opinion. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 6:28:58 AM | GibsonMichael, without beating around the bush, the relationship is most probably over and the chances for you to have a reconciliation are very slim at best. Even if you did reconcile, based on what you told us, the chances for this "relationship" succeeding are very, very low. There are a number of reasons why this is so. Primarily, this young woman's behavior and level of responsiveness 9ie, snapping at your for myriad innocuous and trivial issues) clearly shows that she is insecure and unready for a committed relationship as evidenced by her misperceptions and misinterpretations of your kind intentions and acts. Although you say she may be worldy and smart for her age, the fact remains that she is still very young psychologically and has not formed a core sense of self . In short, she does not appear to be ready to enter a long term committed relationship or capable at this point of truly loving another when in fact she is not even at the stage of development to know who she really is and what she really wants in a mate!
In terms of your role, although well intended and inadvertent, you were treating her as a man would their daughter, not as a mate on equal footing. This is evidenced by the intense manner in which you attended to her needs, whims and mood changes. In addition after the honeymoon phase of a relationship comes to an end and partners get to know each others quirks and limitations better, "love" can go out the window very quickly. This is epecially so when one or both partner's have unrealistic expectations and fantasies about a relationship rather than approaching the relationship from a realistic position, aware that understanding, tolerance, compromise and compassion are the core of a successful relationship. It is also significant that in your initial post you refer to the new women who are calling you as "girls", so the question you need to ask yourself are you seeking a relationship with another "girl" rather than a woman and why is that so?
So even if you were to get back with this "girl" the probability of it working out appears to be very, very slim. Yes getting back with her may temporarily alleviate yur current feelings of emptiness and loss BUT does not portend for a happy ending in this case. I know how painful this loss may be to you but it is necessary to be the mature partner of this broken relationship and let this young woman go and have an opportunity to grow and evolve into a woman because she is apparently not at that point yet. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 7:48:03 AM | You guys are all probably right. It sucks. But I'll get over it. This was just my first relationship since my marriage. I met my ex-wife when I was 20 years old, and was with her for 10 years, so I kind of have been out of the game for my entire adult life.
My breakup with my wife wasn't without pain or anything, but it was civil and adult. It didn't hurt 1/100th like this one has.
Oh well. I'll probably find someone that I won't have to work so hard to "keep it together". I just hope I learn from these two relationships and don't just start a downward spiral of repeating the same behaviors over and over. Because I wasn't aware of ANY of the bad things I was doing in this past relationship. I'd hate to think that I am that blind.
Anyway... thanks guys! | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 7:58:42 AM | Do you have kids from your first marriage?..........if so, why aren't you focusing on them instead of a 21 year old girl ?
Also, I assume you and this 21 yard old did not have a child.......perfect!
Move on and target someone in your own age range. You're trying to make a 21 year old girl be a 31 year old wife whose job it is to make you happy.
31 - 21 is a huge gap!
For the sake of both of you and any potential children, just thank your lucky stars she didn't get pregnant....... | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:47:30 AM | | Parry10, in fact 21-31 is not necessarily a "...huge gap" ! There are significant numbers of marriages where the age gap between partners is even greater than ten years and yet these relationships flourish. The key is the level of maturity and level of readiness of the younger party to the relationship to commit to another person. Although many American women at the age of 21 are psychologically not ready for making a long term committment to a significant other there are those who do so very successfully. As an example my sister married at the age of 22 to a man who was 36 years old. They have a successful marriage for thirty years and counting in spite of a 14 year gap between them. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:54:03 AM | OP, you state "I wasn't aware of ANY of the bad things I was doing in this past relationship." You also state that you never knew what small comment would send her into a rage or temper tantrum. In my experience, when a 30 year-old man is utterly confused as to why his words are frequently misinterpreted and his well-intended actions are backfiring, he likely has been sucked into a BPD-type relationship. A hallmark of BPD is the partner's feeling that he is always walking on eggshells. I therefore suggest that you read about BPD and determine, for yourself, if your ex likely exibits strong BPD aspects to her personality.
To avoid repeating what I have written elsewhere on this forum, I sent you a private message explaining why BPD may be pertinent here and where to obtain information. If BPD does apply, the mistake that you keep repeating is not, as you suspect, what you say to your ex. Rather, the mistake is your repeated decision to keep putting up with her abusive treatment of you. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 11:32:54 AM | | Looks to me she gradually somewhere started to lose th interest. In women very often when they start to lose the interest they feel like reducing sex. Eventuallu, her interest continued to diminish and the result was there. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 11:46:59 AM | | DownTownDC, you may be right that this young lady has a Borderline Personality Disorder. However, I tend to avoid getting into discussions of diagnostic categories on a discussion board because 1) it is very difficult to be certain of the reliability of a person's personality characteristics based on their partners descriptions which may be skewed ,2) Although a person MAY appear to be suffering from BPD, such as in the case of the young woman in question, it could just be significant levels of insecurity and immaturity that results in this kind of acting-out, NOT BPD. So without a face-to-face comprehensive assessment performed by a skilled clinician it is not possible to draw a credible conclusions about any person's specific psychopathology. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 11:50:24 AM | | One more point. Regardless of whether or not she is BPD, it really does not matter! The bottomline is that this young woman, BPD or with any other diagnosis, is not ready to get involved or to commit to THIS man and/or perhaps any other. And this is all that matters even if she had no discernable psychopathology. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 1:44:28 PM |
So without a face-to-face comprehensive assessment performed by a skilled clinician it is not possible to draw a credible conclusions about any person's specific psychopathology.
The issue is not how to diagnose the OP's ex. As you say, that is the province of trained professionals. Rather, the issue is whether the OP is sufficiently intelligent that, once he learns to identify the nine behavioral characteristics of BPD, he will be able to identify a strong pattern of BPD when it occurs. I believe he is. You don't have to be a fireman -- trained in putting out all types of fires -- to learn it is unsafe to run into burning buildings. Like smoke and flames, the behavioral characteristics of BPD are warning signs that should not be ignored.
Moreover, there is little chance that the OP could obtain such information from a "skilled clinician" who is treating the ex. For one thing, the very nature of BPD makes it highly unlikely that the ex will ever seek treatment. Even if she did, ethics would prevent the clinician from telling the OP her diagnosis. Indeed, if my 15 year experience with psychologists is any indication, the clinician likely will not even tell her. One reason is that high-functioning BPD sufferers are such good actors that they often can hide their illness from the less experienced clinicians. Another reason is that BPD sufferers tend not to return to therapy when given such a diagnosis -- hence the clinician will only say "I don't believe in labels" when asked for a diagnosis. When forced to call it something, clinicians seem most likely to call it "PTSD" because insurance companies cover that but often refuse to cover BPD, claiming (falsely) that it is untreatable.
Regardless of whether or not she is BPD, it really does not matter!
I believe it matters a great deal. The underlying question here is whether the OP is a selfish insensitive man who always says the wrong thing (as his ex claims) or, instead, a man who has willingly put up with abusive treatment for five months and still wants her back. Granted, I do not know the correct answer to that question. But the OP may be able to easily answer that question when, armed with information about BPD, he decides whether her behavior strongly exhibits many aspects of BPD.
If he decides that it does, he must confront the fact that he has been tolerating abusive treatment that causes healthier men to run screaming in the opposite direction. That is, he likely has codependent aspects to his personality that may make him a sitting duck for wounded birds and all women suffering from BPD. In that event, the danger is that he will seek out another woman just like his ex. My objective, then, is to give him the tools with which to be sufficiently self reflective to figure out the correct answer. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 4:46:07 PM | | DownTownDC, the primary issue that matters is the negative behavioral dynamics experienced by this poster and how he is going to manage the problem NOT whether she is BPD or any other personality disorder. In addition although we may believe that an individual is BPD or meets the criteria for some other diagnostic category in fact we may be grossly incorrect. So by all means discussing behavioral issues that impacted on this poster can be very helpful and relevant in his ability to avoid similar relationships in the future. However, engaging in pseudo-psychodiagnostic evaluations for which we may be unqualified to conduct with an unknown entity who we know absolutely nothing about leading to very questionable diagnostic labels, is in my opinion, not a very productive or meaningful endeavor! | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/12/2009 5:23:20 PM | | Omg let's put a label on anyone that doesn't behave the way we want them too! We only know ONE side of the story - the OP's. I (as others) already picked up controlling issues that he felt I jumped on him about. She is 21 ... let her be 21. The real issue here is that the OP is asking for advice about someone we never met. This tells me he spends far too much energy analyzing a dead horse. Op - find someone else and DATE ... you went from one committment to the next .. you need a breather! Nayyyyy! | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/13/2009 7:30:22 AM |
Omg let's put a label on anyone that doesn't behave the way we want them too! We only know ONE side of the story - the OP's. I (as others) already picked up controlling issues that he felt I jumped on him about. She is 21 ... let her be 21. The real issue here is that the OP is asking for advice about someone we never met. This tells me he spends far too much energy analyzing a dead horse. Op - find someone else and DATE ... you went from one committment to the next .. you need a breather! Nayyyyy!
Dude, what is your problem? You are so intense. I realize this is an internet forum, so you can be as intense as you want, and it must feel kind of fun to be the whole, "just tellin` like it is" gunslinger guy. But obviously none of this is easy. So save the Gordon Ramsey routine for a forum about cooking or something.
I never tried to control her consciously. I didn't want to change her. And if I did, it was on some deep subconscious level. And even then it was only to help her. I wasn't like ever trying to craft a new person so that I could have a more perfect girlfriend for me to selfishly have. Nothing like that at all.
Yes she is young. I get it. I didn't get it at the time because age isn't something I've ever dealt with. She seemed 100% mature and able to handle anything. And then when the drama started, I just assumed that GIRLS are just simply more dramatic. I mean I watched my 40+ year old mother throw some ridiculous fits of rage growing up, so how I I supposed to know that this is "young" drama, and not just "female" drama?
Anyway, this forum post was great. I have learned a lot; even from those that speak so harshly. But now, I think that I am defending myself too much, and it isn't helping me move forward, it is causing me to sit and think and think and think about the past. It's the hardest thing in the world to know that you love someone with all you heart, you now see what you did wrong, and you want to apologize and give it another shot, a lot wiser now. But that person is just not coming back. That hurts, but this forum isn't going to help me.
Thanks guys! | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/13/2009 1:18:01 PM | I hear you, my gf was 21, I'm 33 ....
Huge difference in maturity and world experience at those ages. She sounds just a tad narcissistic to. You've been used and abused and your usefullness has expired so you've been chucked to the side. | |
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| Honestly, do you think she will ever come back around?
Posted: 4/13/2009 4:37:03 PM | Dude, what is your problem? You are so intense. I realize this is an internet forum, so you can be as intense as you want, and it must feel kind of fun to be the whole, "just tellin` like it is" gunslinger guy. But obviously none of this is easy. So save the Gordon Ramsey routine for a forum about cooking or something.
I am not a dude. Plenty of people helped you - you want to beat a dead horse. Go ahead. Nayyyyy! | |
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