| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 12:03:40 PM | I have a situation that has been several years in the making and would appreciate some input.
Back in 1998 with his own health failing and several buddies having passed my father decided he no longer would be using his bass boat so he gave it to me. I was married at the time and the boat was titled in both our names.
Fast forward to 2004, my partner had been severely ill, his sister passed unexpectedly and my father fell ill. The boat had not been on the water in 2 years and was gonna dry rot in the pasture. I thought the property might benefit from some brick work to mitigate flooding concerns so my husband convinced me to barter the bass boat away to his best friend, Russell (whom I've known for 30 years... changed his son's diapers), in exchange for the labor. The price my partner picked out of thin air was $500 altho the boat is easily worth twice that. However, the material for the job was never purchased. For the sake of brevity I don't believe the reason why is relevant. In the meantime Russell put about $500 worth of work into the boat.
In 2006 we divorced. For the most part it was amicable. When the subject of the boat came up, Russell was contacted and agreed he still was willing to do other things around the house to fulfill the barter. However, his line of work requires travel so he wasn't always available, plus a rumor went around our small town that we had an affair (totally untrue) so we kinda kept our distance for a while.
Russell had a serious accident in late 2007 and was off his feet and work for an extended period of time. During that time my ex passed away. We talked about taking the ex's ashes for a fishing trip when he was completely healed but it never came to pass. He did tell me I'm welcome to use the boat any time and he keeps the tag up-to-date. The few times I've called to borrow it I've been unable to reach him. I generally speak to him only a few times a year.
Now I've met someone who enjoys camping and fishing as much as I do and intend to do a lot more of both. I tried to contact him 2 weeks ago to make arrangements to borrow the boat 4 specific days in May. Someone mentioned to me that they don't believe he has tagged the boat in years but I'm not sure that anyone can be trusted to know details of his life since he is away a lot and a rather private person.
I'm feeling the need to have this matter over and done with. Altho I feel Russell has had adequate time and earning that he could have paid me the $500 that was not our deal. Similarly, I don't feel I am responsible for the materials never having been purchased so Russell could do the agreed upon work. Things were just crazy then. I live within 3 miles of 2 lakes and feel if Russell truly meant I was welcome to use the boat anytime he would store it in my barn (or a mile away at his parents' or brother's houses) instead of at his sister's house 30 miles away which is no where near any bodies of water. I would be willing to pay Russell $500 for the work he has put into the boat even tho he enjoyed the use of it for years without any type of 'payment.'
I would appreciate any advice regarding how to initiate such a conversation with a long time friend one values. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 12:28:09 PM | It sounds like he doesn't really have opportunity to use the boat himself. Have you made any offers that were turned down? Or have you not been able to get ahold of him at all?
I'd say you have mentioned two possibilities that sound more than fair: 1) offering to reimburse him for his time and effort in exchange for the return of the boat that was never paid for or 2) Offer to keep the boat in your barn, near water, for both of you to have at your disposal.
I'd say give him his choice of those two options, and see what he says. Good luck. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 1:02:21 PM | So you could look at it this way:
You traded a rotting boat that you never used for about $500 of a long time friend's labor. By no fault of his, you didn't have him do the work. In the mean time, he put about $500 and a lot of his labor into restoring the boat and he has been enjoying it's use. The original deal took place 5 years ago and I would imagine that if it wasn't for his work on the boat that it would be worthless right now as you had said that it was already rotting.
You had 5 years to ask for it back and you didn't.
I would say to just let it go. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 1:27:57 PM | I would like to say forget the boat as you already gave it away even though you didn't get any labor in return.
You could ask what it would take to get the boat back since he didn't do any work for you maybe you could get it back for any work he did to the boat.
Another thing to think about is that the engine has been sitting for 5 years?? And maybe hasn't been run at all in that time period. The cost of repair could be quite a lot. Plus depending on how it was stored what have the pesky little critters done to the wiring and other componets required to operate the boat. Or was the lower unit drained prior to parking it if it was used before winter?
If there is a sentinal thing since it was your dads boat then all those above issue could be mute. If not you might be able to buy a new boat to you, motor and trailer from someone that needs the money in these hard times and get a really good deal. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 1:39:12 PM | | You've waited too long to resolve this so I'd just let it go... and find another boat if you really want to. In this economy people are selling used boats very cheap. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 2:13:14 PM | I think you have two options. One, you could take him to small claims court. Two, you could let it go. It's an issue of what, 500 to 1000 dollars? Is it worth the concern, anxiety, is it worth it? Wouldn't be to me. I'd move on. This just seems like clinging to something that was over and done with a long time ago, clinging to it for the sake of not a great deal of money.
Isak Dinesen's story OUT OF AFRICA starts with the line, "I had a farm in Africa at the foot of the Ngong Hills..." You can say "I had a boat once....." :) | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 2:42:16 PM | Thanks for your input, guys. I'm attempting to address questions raised in all three in one post.
How often he uses the boat is questionable. A few months back he stated he had used the boat recently. I took that to mean during the current year. Then I heard a relative believes the boat hasn't been tagged in about 2 years. I'm fairly certain he didn't use during late 2007 or any of 2008 due to an injury so it wouldn't necessarily be a sign of disinterest or neglect that he didn't tag the boat for at least 1 of those years.
I can't say I've made any direct offers which were turned down. When I filed for the divorce, I told him and the ex I wanted the boat back, some services provided or $500 cash. He stressed I could use the boat whenever I wanted and opted to stick with the original barter for services but was unavailable or unable when I needed services so I had to hire someone else. He usually is difficult to contact but that isn't out of the ordinary for him so I don't feel he was avoiding me. It did, however, hurt my feelings when just prior to my ex's passing Russell and his son helped him to rebuild his back deck and clear some ice storm debris. At that time I had been helping my ex with the debris on weekends with the understanding he was going to help me with mine next. Then the ex didn't help me in return, nor did he suggest to Russell that I needed services and still hadn't been paid for the boat so I got a little (okay... a lot) pissy about it to the ex. The ex came over one day and helped me. He was supposed to come back the next weekend but he died on Friday. I don't know if he told Russell about my fit. I didn't.
I never said the boat was rotted. I said it was going to rot if it wasn't used. That is the nature of boats. It held sentimental value to me and I couldn't stand the idea of it going to waste as that would be contrary to my father's principles. The material covering the seats was cracking. The carpet was faded and in overall poor condition. It probably harbored a wasp nest or two. As far as I know the engine was still in working order. He never mentioned having to have work done to the engine. He did mention having the seats and carpet redone. Nor did I say I never used it. I said that due to events in our life we had been unable to use the boat the past few years. Additionally, I did not say that my friend put $500 AND his labor into the boat. He paid a professional to recover the seats and install marine carpet, and I'm guessing that shouldn't have cost more than $500. So if I'm willing to give my friend $500 for those improvements/repairs then he enjoyed the use of the boat for 5 years for considerably less than most people spend to maintain one.
I don't know whether the engine has been prepped for winter storage since I've seen the boat only once in the past 5 years. If he's anything like my ex he isn't in the habit of emptying gas from motorized tools and toys.
New boats comparable to the one currently in Russell's possession are $10,000. I have been on the lookout for used boats. Aluminum v-hulls with a trailer are running about $1,200... mostly with only a trolling motor if that. A 2-man that doesn't require a trailer and with trolling motor is about $500 (used) to $800 (new). The advantage of a 2-man is I won't be challenged to back up with a trailer. LOL! But I don't really like the lack of space and never feel safe/relaxed on one.
Legally I have no recourse and wouldn't pursue it if I did. This is just one of those jacked up things for which my ex was so famous. Sometimes I feel Russell wound up stuck in the middle of a situation not of his making. Other times I feel sorta taken advantage of cuz Russell helped the ex even tho he was injured and the deck wasn't pressing. Russell has experience in construction including brickwork, drywall and plumbing. In the past 3 years I have had to replace a water heater, well pump and pressure tank, insulate a well house, rebuild a shed door, get the riding lawn mower fixed, and still need some wall and trim repairs. So... yeah... sometimes I wonder if I'm fooling myself and Russell isn't really a friend I can rely on at all. He was always there for me and the ex (when he wasn't the ex). But I also know it can be a b**** when it comes to divorce and divvying up friends... especially for the friends. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 3:42:19 PM | You're in a tough situation since you turned the title to it and the trailor over to him before payment, legally that is. Only option would be small claims court, legally that is.
You might try harder to get hold of him and work something out , his family probably knows how to reach him
Used boats are pretty cheap, could be a better option to buy one instead of having problems over a boat that is probably barely worth either or both of you's $500 | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 5:07:52 PM | OP personally I understand how you feel but without being able to reach the person in question I think you would be better off finding another boat. If this boat has been sitting for any amount of time it will more than likely need more work or even a serious rebuild. If the motor hasnt been run in two years then your looking at a serious tuneup ( at the very least). Not to mention tags for the boat and the trailer, even though it will most likely be the same with a new one (depending on the expiration of the boat tags).
In the long run your going to be better off both emotionally and financially to find yourself another boat. Then again if your not looking to buy something perhaps you could find someplace near you to rent one ( most marinas have day and weekend rental plans). This may be a better way to go financially so that your not stuck owning a boat that you may not be using alot. That way you dont have to figure out how to get a camper ( if your going that way) and a boat to the lake without two trips or two vehicles. As you can see I have done this before..lol. Good luck to you. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 8:14:23 PM | | The boat should have a serial number on the stern. Do a pencil rubbing of the number and get a title history from the state. You can't always be sure that the records still reflect the registration numbers but even those could be adequate. That will establish who the state says actually owns the boat. Unless it has not been registered for quite a few years, the records are kept. Usually they require a signed bill of sale to change ownership. Once you have that information, it will help you settle with yourself what you really want to do. Craigs list usually has several boats in such limbo. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/27/2009 10:15:06 PM | | windroper. there's something about a boat that makes otherwise intelligent people crazy. i've been in the boat business since '96 and can tell you that this happens a lot. there's enough drama in your situation to make a month of soaps.if you want to pursue this, ahoy dave has it right.does your state have an excise tax for boats? if it does, you may have a hefty bill for both the back taxes and the license fees for the unpaid years. clearly, you are the wronged party here. you would most likely win in 5 minutes in small claims court. the boat could be at sister's because its 30 milesaway annd he doesn't want you to use it. i suggest that you check out the history and your options. then decide what you want to do. clearly the guy isn't going to do anything until you force the issue. good luck | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 4:55:14 AM | | Das boat has sailed. Waven landlubbers. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 5:12:12 AM | As I understand it, boats are just buckets that you pour money into. You're better off renting.
Later,
Bob | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 5:12:37 AM | | Rather than create a possible rift with a friend over a boat that has seen better times over 5 yrs ago, I'd buy a new boat or rent one when I went fishing. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 6:30:16 AM | Again, I appreciate everyone's input. You've given me a lot of things to consider that I had not.
What I find most encouraging, oddly enuf, is that no one has said "He ain't much of a friend or he woulda made it right." Lately I do think about what I would have done had I been in Russell's shoes and I'm honestly not sure. What do you do? When you do have some free time do you go over and say "Well, if you don't have something in particular you need done right now, I'm just gonna FIND something, do it and be done with this."? It wasn't our idea to begin with and even tho I'm not sure that we could have foreseen how it would play out I guess it should be chalked up to experience.
I loved the comment about "Once I had a boat..." LOL! That's soooo true! At one time or another I've had lots of things I valued but lost them in one way or another. It's disappointing, maybe even frustrating sometimes, but I've survived without each and every thing. If I had the boat and my circumstances changes tomorrow, I'd be back to a boat faced with dry rot in a pasture but possibly out a good, long time friend whose very presence I enjoy and value. My dad was very particular about his tools and rarely loaned them even to friends but I'm pretty sure which he would tell me he cared the most about in the long run and it ain't the tools.
So I think I've decided that I will continue to try to contact Russell about using the boat next month and mention that it would be nice if he would store it in my barn so both of us will have easier access. Then I could continue to save toward something similar and likely have less maintenance/repair issues to start out. . | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 6:35:38 AM |
As I understand it, boats are just buckets that you pour money into. You're better off renting.
There are many boats purchased by dreamers that end up being an anchor on those who bought them. If mechanically inclined, the best bet is to find these and buy them CHEAP. Fix them up with intent to sell to yet another dreamer but enjoy them while you have them. Of the over a dozen boats I have owned and sold, I have actually made money on them, up to eight times what I put into them. I don't recall ever losing money on one. Those I have rented or chartered have all been disappointing as maintainence was lacking with the exceptions of skippered charters. The best example was one in Florida with a skipper who could have been Cap'n Ron's (Kurt Russel) cousin. It was classic mayhem with Dolphin pacing the bow, shark, and even a large pod of manatee. The only new boat I have is a kayak and the same model now sells for twice what I paid. | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 6:43:07 AM | | Sounds like another case for Judge Judy | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 6:47:59 AM | Yeah... rented a boat once. $75/hour for bare basics aluminum v-hull. Seemed excessive to me and those benches aren't condusive to borderline reasonable comfort. I don't care much for fishing from the bank but I care even less for getting screwed without being kissed first.  | |
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| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 7:11:50 AM | Boats are a pain in the ass to maintain, store and drag to and fro... friends, though, really good friends and worth much more than $500. If this guy is a dear friend for more than 30 years -- as you've said -- I would do two things:
First, get over your resentments. Time has gone by, boats get older and one of the people involved in this story died.
Second, call him up and tell him how you've been frustrated by this long-term situation and apologize for not dealing with everything in a more timely. Tell him your friendship is worth more than the old boat and you are glad that someone you care about has your dad's history with him.
You might be surprised what comes out of this conversation, but in any event never bring it up again. | |
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*Don*
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Msg: 20 | |
| Das Boat
Posted: 4/28/2009 8:02:22 AM | Well, if it were me ... I’d call this guy, explain my situation outright – I want to do some boating this summer and could we either store the boat in my garage so I’d have better access to it or could we figure some way that I could own it again ?? ... sorry, but I got a little confused with the friend/family/labour/money entanglements in your situation. If this fellow is reasonable, you’ll talk and find some way to solve this issue between the two of you. If there's 'long ago settling up' that is necessary, then do it. And if you can’t work anything out that lets you go boating this summer, then take the $500 you were going to give him, plus whatever else you can scrape up and go to the boat shop and buy a boat on credit. Then put it in your garage and use it. And I’d mention to him when you talk to him that this is what you’ll have to do if you can’t work things out.
The bottom line is, Ms. Windroper ... do you want to go boating, or do you want to spend your summer battling a long-time family friend over something that should have been put to rest long ago ??
This is just what I would do, of course. But I’m usually a bit more direct than most ...
D | |
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