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| "Nice guys finish last" is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 2:16:05 PM | Good evening everyone...
I've often been told by many a person that I'm genuinely one of the nicest people that they've met, a rare kind of person, incredibly kind/thoughtful/caring/romantic etc. So why is it that someone like me will constantly be burned and cast aside?
I'll put it into perspective, and this is just a small slice of a much larger pie, in the past 12 months I've been involved in two relationships. Both times i had very strong feelings for the other person, I'd go as far as to say with the last one i came as close to loving someone as i ever have before. With the first of the two after six months in which i was pretty much everything that she wanted me to be (i didn't have to change myself either) and providing everything that i could without it becoming me being used, she got into a new job with new friends, and as soon as some attention was thrown on her she started looking elsewhere. We broke up not long after that, and she basically told me that i was making her life harder because she couldn't accept that someone would be so caring and genuine and wasn't ever gonna mess her over. I didn't really accept that, it sounded a bit cliché.
The second, whom i parted ways with a mere month ago had previously been with people who had used her, and cheated on her and basically made her feel worthless. She was taken with how i appreciated her for who she was, and was just nice for the sake of being nice. Things progressed, and my feelings eventually got pretty deep. Now, for some reason she wasn't ever able to fully forget about this one ex of hers who really messed her about, and constantly talked about him. Eventually that became a bit grating, but i tried to grin and bear it. Anyway, a few weeks ago she just went quiet on me for a week, then decided she couldn't do it anymore. I was told "I know how you feel about me, and even though i know i should, i don't feel the same." and that was about it...she made a point of telling me she wanted things to end on a good note, and that she really cared and wanted me as a friend. . .
Two weeks later and she's run off with my (now former) best friend.
What exactly is it, about someone being genuine, honest, caring and actually decent (which so many people out there claim to want) that causes you to get screwed over?
Sometimes i really despair over it, since it seems to get anywhere in this world you actually have to be a complete git. I don't like that notion, since it doesn't fit in with how i am, nor how i ever intend to be.
So I'll plod along, probably winding up in the same situations time and again. Who knows, maybe one of you out there looking for a genuine and nice guy actually means it...
Peace out. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 2:21:44 PM | | You're picking the wrong people and not reading the signs because you're too busy trying to be genuine, honest, caring and actually decent (all about you) and not paying attention to what the other person is telling/showing you about themselves. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 2:27:16 PM | | I wish that were the case. I don't try to be any of those things, it's just how i am by nature. Each time the people involved have always, on the surface at least, seemed to be the kind of person that would be well suited to that kind of relationship. But then after the happiness period something just seems to change, and you get burned...I find it hard to understand why that change occurs. Maybe people get bored of being respected and cared for? I honestly do not know. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 3:37:49 PM | It's unfortunate, but true; both men and women like to feel challenged. It's human nature to feel that if it's too easy, there's something wrong.
That's why women like bad boy types like your second girls X that she couldn't stop talking about. It makes them feel special if they can win over the guy who is hard to hold on to.
A sweet caring guy like you unfortunately gets shifted into the friend zone in her mind.
She wants to want you, but doesn't understand why she can't
Attractive women are used to guys telling them how beautiful they are and doing things for them to try and win their favor. Kissing their ass basically.
I'm sure you are a really nice guy, and that's a good thing.
But sometimes nice guys let women run over them, and the women loose respect for a man who doesn't act like a man and stand up for himself.
Some times that may mean telling her in no uncertain terms what your limits and boundaries are and that you won't tolerate her crossing them.
That may mean being willing to challenge her and risk her leaving.
It may mean walking away yourself, but at least you'll be leaving with your self respect in tact.
A man can be a gentleman, and still be a man, and when it comes down to it women respect strength. They don't want someone they perceive as wimpy.
It's a good thing to be genuine, honest and caring. But to be the kind of guy women want, you have to care for yourself first. It is possible to be too nice. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 4:49:26 PM | Dark Hair Blue Eyes, let me give you some advice. BE YOURSELF! There are women out there who will love and adore you just the way you are with no need to change yourself whatsoever. You are a young guy and with time and eperience will evolve and be more selective of the type of women you select. And the young women who are giving you a rough time now will be tickled pink meeting a man like yourself as they maturate and become aware of what qualities are most important to a relationship.
So don't be so hard on yourself. In addition, don't buy this hype or generalizations regarding the characteristics women find attractive in men because not all women are attracted to the stereotypical image of a strong male who sets boundaries and takes charge. In fact being "strong" does not necessarily imply being hyper-aggressive, or caveman-like but can be expressed by intelligence, strength of character, caring for others and standing up for what you believe. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 4:59:49 PM | Comfort 123 is right. As these girls mature they will learn to appreciate your good qualities, and I'm certainly not advocating that you be "hyper aggressive."
I believe in treating women with the utmost respect, but all I'm saying is that you have to respect yourself first in order to gain and keep their respect. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 5:12:51 PM |
There are women out there who will love and adore you just the way you are with no need to change yourself whatsoever.
yeah, but usually you don't like them, and the ones you like they don't like you... | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 5:45:29 PM | that's when you have to be open-minded. I message and get ignored 9/10 times on here, and when they do reply, there's nothing to help the betterment of a friendship.
It's doesn't matter how nice you are or how much of yourself you are anymore. Most girls are in it for the bad boy, buff and/or guido-fags that think they're the hottest thing in the world, while the modest ones get ignored. And then when you finally try to go out of your boundaries and act like a bad guy, everyone hates you for it.
The story is too familiar. In fact I am a victim to it. And in the end, people get mad that I'm willing to experiment with things, and then no attention is gained when you're yourself. You need to make an impact in a different way.
My way is through writing music in hopes that a nice cute girl would find my stuff out of the blue and that would be enough to be like *Snap* ta-da!
While it's a silly idea that would never come true, There's still hope, because that's all one can do in an unforgiving world of love and dating like we're in today. It's all about being in the right place at the right time anymore. Unfortunately we "nice guys" are in the wrong place all the time.
I can only wait so much longer before I hit the road to find that one, or even take the seas or plane to a distant country to find that one. There's someone for everyone, you just need to find your way out into the world or let it stumble into your lap. Either way it could be tomorrow, or 50 years from now. Our lifespans are so huge that we can't really worry about it forever as it would shorten said life span.
Keep your head high, love could be around the corner, and if it isn't, well... build a time machine out of an 80's car model. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 5:55:48 PM | | andyvlad, not necessarily. The bottomline is that opposites attract BUT in many cases do not last. Partners who share similar personality characteristics, worldviews and belief systems usually remain together longer than mates with disparate personality traits and viewpoints. So while there may be an initial excitement being with a woman who is on the opposite pole of our personality dimensions, that "high" will eventually burn out and it is doubtful that she will be with you down the road? I would rather be with a woman who will not bust my chops, is a good, caring and loving lady who will not test me every moment of the day, keep me on edge or pull ploys. Just my preference. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 6:14:03 PM | | AndThenIWasAgain, sorry you are experiencing rough times but so did I and many other men at your age. As you come into being, becoming more comfortable in your "skin" and more self-assured, women will find you more attractive. In fact when I hit my mid to late twenties I had no need to pursue women; they pursued me. Was I a super bad boy, super handsome, rich or powerful? NO. However, I was situated in a good job, was self confident and took care of my appearance. I was also kind, empathic, compassionate and many women loved me for these characteristics. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 6:52:35 PM | Nice guys dont finish last; You see very very smothering; I think you go way overboard and do too much;
I'm nice but I'm not a pushover; You have to be respected. You see very needy somewhat;
I could see you dating someone and constantly doing for them. I think you need to stop going so overboard and tone it down.
You are choosing very poorly too. good luck. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:02:59 PM | it's the sad truth, oh freakin' well, you deal with what you have and move on. Even if you never fall in love in 5 million years, in the end when you do, it's worth it.
Your doctrine works, but you're rather rude about the way that you come across. It's brutal honest truth though. As for me, I hold these qualities as of who I am, I have been deemed that kind of rock for people to lean on, but I know when to stop taking people's crap.
Also women are attracted to nice guys, just not, OVERLY CREEPY NICE guys like you mentioned. There's a difference. There's chivalry and then there's just overly bad sense of trying too hard.
I also prefer not to use your titles for those happy mediums. The word jerk feels too negative and sensitive **stard could be anyone really, since while they may be sensitive, the word **stard anymore could be used on anyone, backbone or none.
A relationship is about making compromises, and at our young age, compromises are near impossible unless they truly know what they desire and are stable enough to carry through with such a commitment. Some people like this are often seen as "Old-Fashioned." Falling in love young and marrying young. You don't see that as often because people are all about "having fun" Which pretty much means in whore language, "getting piss ass drunk and ****ing 5 guys at once." Ahhhhhh college years, you never cease to give me something to make fun of. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:23:18 PM | | Man I feel your pain. I went through the same stuff for years and years and always wondered why. After getting married and divorced, I have a whole different perspective on the situation. The truth of the situation is that women don't want the nice guy, I'm sure they will disagree. Let me guess. In school you had lots of female friends that you would have given your right hand to date, but they always ended up dating your jerk friends, that cheated or smacked them around. Untill they go out and gain some knowledge about life and how good life can be with a nice guy, they will not appreciate you. Best bet either get a good religious girl or one that is older than you. Don't give up though, if I had, I wouldn't have my Daughter, and she was well worth it. Nice guys make the best dads and we raise good girls that will love men like us!!! Peace out. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:40:25 PM | Nice girls finish last too.............................................., take it from one (me).
What she did to you wasn't that great running off with your friend. Sorry to hear that happened to you.
Some people on here always blame the poster, saying "they attract people like that". NOT. You never know someone, until you get to know them through time. When things go wrong like what happened to you, you second guess how you are and your personality. You shouldn't. You are who you are, and not all relationships will be this way. It's impossible, everyone is different.
If you do eventually start seeing a pattern of the type of women you are dating and they pull this crappola, then maybe it's time to look at different types of women, who think and act differently, look different, etc.
Other than that, be yourself. Like my big downfall (people have told me), is I wear my heart on my sleeve, ok fine, so what, I should change myself??? Sure if I change myself and become a biatch, stop caring about people and being 'nice", then I've lost a piece of myself. And once that happens, I would wonder, will I ever get that back again?
I've seen far too many people that lost themselves, that piece of themselves, and they'll never get it back. I find it sad. They'll never open their hearts to anyone, because it has been stomped on one or too many times. So they go out and play mind games when dating. Well they'll end up alone when they're old and wonder what happened. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:43:49 PM | | By the way, nice people aren't pushovers unless they allow themselves to be that. I won't be anyone's pushover or a doormat. Like me as I am, or not. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:48:38 PM | Sometimes, "nice guys" do too much, too quickly. They are smothering because they are always trying to think of ways to be nice to the women they care about, things to do for her, ways to be romantic.
It's great to be sweet to someone you care about. I won't tolerate any guy who isn't nice and respectful to me. But I have experienced guys who come on too strong and are always calling and trying to do "nice" things. In some cases, it's great. But sometimes, the person becomes too needy.
So I think guys need to figure out that it's not about being nice. I think a lot of the time, it's about being smothering and needy. People like people who are confident and seem to have their own life, too. They want to know the other person cares about them, but not think the other person wouldn't be able to make it without them. They want to know the other person is excited, but not to the point where they are calling every 5 minutes.
Does this make sense? | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/30/2009 3:13:02 AM | Ok OP: As one nice man to another I will try and explain it.
You can still be nice, and be strong. You can bend but don't break; do you understand what I mean? Don't walk on other people, don't let other people walk on you, don't lie, don't tolerate other people's lies, don't bring any baggage with you, and don't let anyone bring baggage with them. Live and let live, forgive but never forget, and don't be a pushover.
Also you need to give a woman her independence; don't do everything for her because sometimes she wants to do things herself, help her when she asks, and occasionally its good to do stuff for her for no reason but you can't do it all the time.
Communicate, learn what a particular woman wants and tell her what you want. Find out what makes her tick, and find out her desires, share your own; do your best to make them happen but never under any circumstances betray yourself and don't bend over backwards to please someone even if you love them, doing so creates resentment.
The last thing I will say, and the hardest thing to do: Don't need her, want her. If you seem clingy or needy she will eventually be put off by you, if she isn't then her feelings are more maternal than romantic and things will go sour anyway when a romantic interest comes around. Don't rely on her to be the soul important thing in your life. Instead, show her that she is very important, but not because she is your life, because she makes your life that much better just be being there.
So if you seem week, needy, overbearing, or aloof than most women will grow tired of you and move on. Its time to graduate from being the Nice Guy to the Nice Man
One more thing to wrap up this long post: Your last girlfriend sounded like a charity case, no offense, but you got with her because you felt bad for her. It was only a matter of time before she grew out of you and went for what she thought was her Nice Man. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/30/2009 5:03:33 AM | Gentlemen, there are no special formulas or inane lists of behaviors and attitudes to attract and keep a girlfriend. Regardless of whether you are a good, bad or ugly boy, whether you are kind or mean, a woman will be attracted to you on the basis of idiosyncratic physical and psychological factors. So any list of specific dos and don'ts won't work and is misleading.
In fact the ONLY factor that is critical in connecting with women is to be YOURSELF! There is no need to be a "bad boy" or to jump through hoops to be noticed because it ain't going to work! Merely get comfortable with who you are and go on with your lives without comparing your successes and/or failures with others. Women will always be around but understand that if YOU are not comfortable with yourselves, which translates into not being self-confident, you will continue to miss opportunites to connect with them. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/30/2009 5:09:57 AM | I can appreciate why quite a few people in this thread are assuming from my opening post that i would come across as a pushover or someone who is spineless...That isn't the case.
I've always been perfectly aware of what is going on around me, and if anything ever comes up that i know i shouldn't have to take i make a point of it and put a stop to it.
In both of the cases highlighted i didn't go out of my way to do everything or give everything for the people involved. At any time i was just being me.
I don't assume for one second that my being a nice person caused the end of anything, i merely ask why people claim to seek that as a defining quality in a person, then encounter it and completely take it for granted.
And gwsmith: It wasn't a charity case, that stuff only came to light after we'd been together a while. I suspect without being used and abused she felt a bit lost like there wasn't anything to challenge her. I personally don't feel a relationship should be about having to be challenged, but there we go..... | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/30/2009 5:23:39 AM |
And gwsmith: It wasn't a charity case, that stuff only came to light after we'd been together a while. I suspect without being used and abused she felt a bit lost like there wasn't anything to challenge her. I personally don't feel a relationship should be about having to be challenged, but there we go.....
Alright, then I apologize. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/30/2009 8:17:30 AM | I'm 56 and have the same problem. I'm a lover, I fall for every woman I date. That causes me a lot of heart ache but I deal with it and move on to the next great love of my life.
I feel sorry for the guys who can't love someone, completely and unconditionally.
There is someone out there for us. It might only for a short time but the experience is worth the pain. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/30/2009 10:34:25 AM | | I'm with you on the nice guys finish last. Like you everybody says I'm a nice guy but it seems no woman wants a nice, loyal, and honest guy. You find someone and treat them with courtesy and respect and they use you and then say so long.It gets to the point that you want to give up cause you get tired of always being used and finishing last. I hope things work out for you because I've given up. | |
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| Nice guys finish last is a sad truth...
Posted: 4/30/2009 11:51:35 AM | Dark hair, blue eyes: How was the sex? Were you two having it?
When it comes to sex, "nice" isn't enough...there's got to be a bit of devil-may-care boldness and aggression, interspersed with absolute adoration for her. Beyond that, if she loses interest, nothing you can do, and consider it God's blessing that she moved on...you're now FREE, even if you don't want to be, to pursue another! | |
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