|
|
|
|
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/29/2009 4:58:33 PM | It's been the rumor but now there is an investigation into factory farming.
(Animals raised for food, stuffed tightly in together or caged in very small spaces....hundreds and thousands in number)
Now, I'm not a vegetarian, and I can see how this would quickly turn into a meat haters/meat lovers debate, but I hope we can all refrain from bashing each other here and just give respective thoughts on this topic.
It is reported that the way cattle, pigs and chickens are confined is horrible for them and negatively effects the health of their meat, verses those raised on ranches and farms with plenty of room and proper treatment. (Free Range)
The "confining", it's said, can easily become a breading den of diseases such as the current Swine Flu and the past Bird Flu and is thought to be the culprit here.
Also.....big concerns with waste care that has been a problem for years is thought to be a major reason the first case of the virus, and death, was contracted in Mexico, by a 4 year old boy.
It has to be time to go back to humane farming...
How much does this concern you?
Would you pay more for all the benefits involved in non factory production?
I think it's over due
Thanks~ | |
|
| |
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/29/2009 6:39:53 PM | I don't know how much of a factor "factory farming" was in the flu case. Most flu strains used in annual vaccines come from extremely rural settings in China that have absolutely nothing to do with factory farming techniques.
All it takes is a bit of flu-infected (almost all of it is) duck poop being inhaled by an already-infected (with human-swine strains) pig for the two to mix together, then you have a new strain that can be picked up by a human from a sneezing pig. Further processing inside the human can result in a final strain making it even easier to become human-to-human.
No further ducks or pigs needed. The final strain is manufactured inside the human by the way, so looking for the pig that was the "source" is futile - the human was the real source of the final virus. Egypt and Mexico can sarch all they want and kill as many pigs as they can, but they won't find the "original pig", since it was just a precursor.
It's remotely possible for a duck to pick that precursor virus back up when it eats the pig's food and off it goes to migrate and spread it to other parts of the world unless someone has wild roast duck for dinner first. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/29/2009 8:47:25 PM | I've been to a few "factory farms", I wish the meat didn't come from them........Just close my eyes and chew sometimes. I like when I can get food from my neighbors farm, the forest, or from a beautiful ranch in Montana I have only seen on t.v....................but there are waayyy too many people to feed in this world for that to be a reality. So just close your eyes and chew.
Wait until these diseases get a stronghold on our crops. VEGETABLE FLU. dang it. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 2:05:42 AM |
The "confining", it's said, can easily become a breading den of diseases such as the current Swine Flu and the past Bird Flu and is thought to be the culprit here.
The same problem arises with humans in any urban center...
It has to be time to go back to humane farming...
And humane living! Get rid of all the cities! 
I'm not a fan of factory farms but as previously said, you can't afford to feed the global population on free range animals. And you'd have to factor in other problems that come from the other side of it too. Start clearing forests so you have open range for grazing livestock and the global warming crowd will object to that too. There is no free lunch! | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 2:22:59 AM | Smithfeild Hams, that great Virginia ham, has Hog plants in La Gloria, Mexico...What is thought to be ground zero in this episode.
I wonder why they are deep in the interior of mexico...away from prying eyes?
away from US rules and regulations?
I went to Smithfield Hams website...The proudly proclaim...All Hams cured in the USA
On their website, the have a photo of a Toddler kissing a Hog Full on the snout...I wonder how long that photo is going to stay up?
http://www.smithfieldfarms.com/b_pages/about.html | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 9:03:21 AM | When we speak of certain unpleasant subjects offence is all but inevitable. Yet underscored by the term, “factory farm” (which suggests the existence of another kind) the fundamental problem of ignorance cannot be avoided. Central to it is the pervasive belief that the agricultural sector was, or should have been, exempt from the technological revolution that swept all other areas of 20th century production. If nothing else, we must understand from whence, and in whose interests the pressure to alter traditional practices originated.
Undaunted by spots on her apples, in her classic hit, “Big Yellow Taxi,” Joni Mitchell asks the farmer man to put away his DDT. Inherent in this perfectly reasonable request is the assumption it was he who advocated for the introduction of intense pesticide protocols. Nothing could be further from the truth. Driven by an overwhelming consumer preference for bright, shinny, aesthetically flawless apples, producers were coerced by public/private coalition in which government acted as virtual sales agents for the large chemical and equipment manufacturers.
Chanting the corporate mantra of increased productivity, experts from the University of Guelph canvassed the countryside lobbying farmers to wholeheartedly embrace the modern industrial model. At the apex of the expansionist frenzy of the late 70’s and earl 80’s, loans and grants were offered to anyone willing to triple their investment. With nothing short of evangelical fervour, I will never forget the actual words of one such expert who belligerently declared, “Get big or get out.” This advice, which rang ominously around the rural kitchen tables of Ontario, was heeded by the wise. Conversely, others committed to the task.
The resulting increases in production on a marketplace that has for over a century been plagued by chronic food surpluses, only further depressed farm gate prices, while sky rocketing interest rates left producers with payments their razor thin margins couldn’t service. Thusly, a small army of private entrepreneurs was reduced to a single battalion of large operators, mere servants of the banks who owned them. When I graduated from high school in 1980, there were more than 10,000 dairy producers in Ontario. Today there are fewer than 3000. This we call progress. To believe the process originated from the back forty, rather than the boardroom, is to embrace what JK Galbraith called. “The escape from thought.”
Acting on the immutable axiom of maximized efficiency, agricultural production is a geographically restricted to the very most conducive areas. Thusly, a century old Hawaiian banana industry is no more. Similarly (with its misrepresented gains and detrimental environmental and health repercussions) the adoption of the wider industrial model on agriculture is the logical product of a culture now three generations removed from the source of its sustenance. Curiously, no concern arises from the understanding that two separate multi billion dollar processing and retailing sectors (which never require government assistance) thrive on the back of a primary producer who’s only hope of survival derives from the billions spent annually subsidizing the production of a commodity without which no human life transpires. Possessed of the failed belief that police, fire, and emergency medical care are “essential services,” that this decades old policy forms no part of public consciousness is a source of inescapable shame.
Better late than never, concern arising from intensive livestock rearing practices has essential merit. But properly laid, blame for this circumstance cannot rest the producer. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 9:27:49 AM | Sorry kiddies...but "factory farming" is the most economical way for producers to supply the demand for meat in our society, and the only one that can produce it in the quantities wanted.
Lets take a single day in North America.
How many buckets of chicken, chicken nuggets, whole chickens are sold on a retail level? How many servings of McNuggets does McDohs serve daily? KFC? Now, multiply that by the number of places they are sold and then multiply again by the number of chickens needed. Remember...that "all white meat" factor! Meaning the animal cannot be allowed to run around too much or the "dark meat" areas will increase in size, taking away the quantity of white meat available!
Comes to a lot, doesn't it? Those animals cannot be raised "free range". Remember...that is ONE DAY in the market....now, think about it for a full year!
Pigs....here in Quebec, the number of pigs allowed to be raised, per acre, is 7. The numbers show that a farm cannot operate with those numbers and they have to use a minimum of 9 animals per acre in order to turn a profit. Against gov't regulation. "Free range" them? The animals would be less "fit" for market. Too much exercise would put muscle mass on them, making meat tougher...unmarketable for what we are used to.
Animals have to raised in confined areas in order to put the marketable weight on them as quickly as possible, or the farmer will go broke.
Can we afford to pay more for "free range" animals? No.....I heard one radio show stating that the price of food went up 17% in the past year...I found that high and could not find anything to support that...but 4% was seen on a couple places. Did YOUR wage go up 4% this past year? For the food alone? Probably not. How can the poorer families and individuals put meat on their table IF they had to pay so much more for it?
There are places that sell "all organic" and "free range" meat....at a premium price. (I saw a very large chicken priced at just over a hundred dollars in one of these places...I couldn't believe it! But...there it was....most meats are priced out of my range at these places. )
So...we can either leave things alone and just monitor "factory farming" or we can try to push more "free range" farming into the market making it impossible for the the average citizen to afford it as part of their daily diet.
How many jobs would be lost? If a burger went to 5 bucks, how many fewer would be sold daily? How many workers would be laid off?
How many farms would shut down?
We'd be seeing food riots in the streets.
Nope....factory farming is here to stay.....live with it.
(Until they get the nutrient tanks to "grow" sides of beef and such and simply "harvest" them by slicing off the parts they can sell....then we'd hear about warehouse farming...) | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 10:27:00 AM | It is nice that I am in a family that raises their own beef and hogs. Yeah it might cost more in a lump sum to fill the deep freeze but you know it isn't full of fillers. In fact the hamburger meat has less fat in it than deer burger does. Oh wait we also look forward to getting at least one or two deer a year.
I had a friend who worked at a chicken factory. After I heard how that process goes on I am not touching chicken. That is some nasty stuff. I have worked stock yards and slaughter houses. No you can't eat off their floors but they do have regular inspectors that come in. I just think it is a cleaner environment than a mass production factory. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 12:00:43 PM | It does concern me. For over a year or so now, I've been exploring differing options regarding the sourcing all sorts of food and yes, free range is an alternative route that I continue to consider. While I have been relatively successful sourcing local growers for local produce and other household items, I've not yet found a provider that has been able to divert me from the grocery store for meat.
Yet, where I live there are neighborhoods populated with people that embrace alternatives to mainstream 'anything'. For many of these folks it often seems like everything is rejected that smacks of mass replication and production. While pricing keeps these types of products out of reach for most---for these folks they continue to create even more demand of the same.
Personally, I balk at paying $9.00+ for a chicken breast and won't on principle. I don't overly stress knowing that if I shop at a grocery store and buy a meat product there that it is coming out of the f/f system--as meat is not a massive or even daily part of my diet; and because of that I don't feel especially vulnerable--yet.
I think many of us understand the inherent dangers of a f/f system but acknowledge that we’re stymied—as nothing else can meet demand.
edit
~~~~ | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 12:10:34 PM | I belive that a lot of these illness are down to poor farming methods, breeding grounds for diseased animals.
The farmers do not care for the health or wellbeing of the animals but more about how much profit they can make from them. Also by doing this the farmers are destroying the land adding unatural chemicals to the Earth, feeding the animals cheeply on soya based foodstuff which most has been shipped in from far off places, rainforests for example are cut down to grow soya purely to feed animals. Modern farming methods are destroying our planet as well as becoming breeding grounds for new diseases which are appearing to mutate and infect humans via the food chain.
I was just 14 years old when i decided to go veggie, it was after a biology lesson where the teacher informed us that the cattle we eat were being treated with anti biotics and steroids just to profit the farmer, more animals, more meat, more cash for him. I thought at that time how wrong it was and didnt want my body intoxicated by these artificial products, so veggie i went and veggie i still am today. I will only eat organic dairy products as they are just as much tampered with as the meat in the food chain.
i wont touch fish either, have you seen the sh!t they pump into our oceans, how safe is that? Im so happy to be veggie and dont care what anyone thinks about it. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 1:41:34 PM | What's just as bad and possibly worse than the handling of animals people eat is all the crap that is added to just about everything we eat: unnecessary fats, fillers, colorings, sugars, and more. A friend noted a bottle of juice that read "100% Juice plus natural ingredients," asking how it can be 100% juice if it has additives.
I'm not convinced that the world would run short of food if not for factory farming, considering the tremendous amount of food that is wasted, in storage, or left to rot in the fields to keep prices inflated. We might not have the abundance we now have in industrialized countries but people probably wouldn't starve, so long as the supply chain was not interrupted or corrupted. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 2:38:49 PM | All very good thoughts to ponder...it will be interesting to see how factory farming is changed because there does need to be a change.
More and more especially over the last decade or so, the current methods involve with f/f are causing more harm than the good production that was hoped for.
I will stay tuned. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 4/30/2009 3:06:05 PM |
"100% Juice plus natural ingredients," asking how it can be 100% juice if it has additives.
When you read "natural ingredients" that could mean (and usually does) naturally occuring elements. It does not mean it is something that you would knowingly ingest. | |
|
| |
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 5/3/2009 8:15:13 AM |
Sorry kiddies...but "factory farming" is the most economical way for producers to supply the demand for meat in our society, and the only one that can produce it in the quantities wanted.
Can you explain the economic benefits of producing a pandemic that kills millions of people all over the world? | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 5/3/2009 8:32:18 AM | Factory Farming IS the problem... especially in countries with lax regulations about health & pollution concerns.
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/engdahl/engdahl050109.html | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/13/2009 9:45:54 AM | OP, I guess you haven't spent too much time from beginning to end of your steak. I raise cattle myself, and do a lot of work with commercial cattle feeding operations. I've seen fancy farms where the cows graze on thousands of acres, and really bad feed lots that should be shut down.
I do agree the beef tastes differently based on what its fed, and how its grown, but I've learned since my visit to Minnesota, where they don't use Angus beef, or Holstein (west coast), but rather just generic cows, that the taste/texture of the meat is different based on breed of cow.
Swine Flu, originated in pigs (swine) because of un-sanitary conditions. Healthy, clean, feed lots don't have the same threat of disease as does some of the lesser ones because conditions are not as good for bacteria and germs. What makes one feed lot better than the other? MONEY !!!
Profit, profit, Profit. It takes more money to farm cattle on grass and feed, than it does to put them in a commercial feedlot, and it takes more money to have a bigger feedlot with less cattle per pen and bigger exercise areas, than it does to cram them all in a little 12 x 12 pen and dump food in a trough twice a day.
The price of Beef, Pork, Lamb, Chicken, Turkey, Etc is higher than we'd like to see it, however, not all of it gets passed onto the farmers & ranchers. Everyone has their hands in it, especially the government! If you want cattle that's ranch-grown, perhaps you should find a rancher, butcher, or grow your own... I don't think about 'Buster' when it comes time for dinner. Just because I said good morning to him every day for 2 years, and now hes dinner, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the way my steak tastes...
I guess it depends on what each individual's definition of "proper" treatment is. Some would argue that raising an animal specifically for slaughter is wrong in itself, so housing it in a commercial feedlot would be out of the question.
As for the waste? Where do you think the fertilizer they just spread over the Corn field just came from? Just another thing for you to think of when you grab for that bag of Doritos...
CowTrucker
Chapman, Kansas | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/13/2009 11:02:07 AM | I've always been a supporter of organic products (I just don't like the prices), but I recently read a book that opened my eyes and has definitely pushed me into growing my own fruits and veggies and buying only locally-grown meat from folks I know. I believe the book was called "100 Facts About Food". I've always been aware of the factory farming problems, but when I found out what the animals (cattle, pigs, and chickens) in feedlots are being fed, I decided to stay away from store-bought meat altogether.
The varieties and amounts of chemicals we willingly consume on a daily basis is astounding. I doubt many folks these days are concerned with how those man-made chemicals are interfering with our own chemistry. My youngest daughter has had undiagnosed/untreatable digestive problems since she was born. Venison is the only red meat she can eat without becoming ill. Even other meats can be consumed by her only in small amounts.
And whether we're talking about factory farming or the medical industry, it's ALL about the almighty dollar. Big business and government (especially the FDA) don't care what goes into our bodies or what types of diseases humans have to face. As long as they're making top dollar, they're happy. There are non-chemical cures for nearly every disease we, as humans, have to deal with (most of which are basically caused by the chemicals we ingest daily), but we'll never hear about those cures. It's far more profitable to treat a disease than it is to cure it.
I remember reading a story last year about a man who was diagnosed with cancer. He opted to go to Mexico and be cured naturally of his cancer rather than face the common treatments here. His own doctor turned around and sued him for the lost income of treating the cancer (in excess of $350,000).
It's an insane world we live in! | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/13/2009 12:38:11 PM |
I wont touch fish either, have you seen the sh!t they pump into our oceans, how safe is that? I'm so happy to be veggie and don't care what anyone thinks about it.
When I hear statements like this I wonder to myself just were is this magic garden, that supplies all the veggies, that never displaced the natural flora and fauna that existed there before it was a garden. Just like in the Amazon. That used no fertilizers that run off of the fields and into the rivers and lakes and eventually the sea.
Regardless of how you feed a population, regardless of what you choose to eat, populations size and health is solely depended upon the ability to produce that food. To get rid of meat you need to clear more land to grow crops. Just like in the Amazon. To stop mass producing meat products, you need more land that was once natural to free range them. Just like in the Amazon.
To approach providing food in an ideal way that has no impact on existing land or mistreatment (factory farming) of animals means to get rid of humans. It is a simple proven formula that has been know since Thomas Robert Malthus wrote his Essay on the Principal of Population in 1798. He was laughed at for it at the time but his words and thoughts are acknowledged to this day.
There is an excellent article in the June issue of National Geographic on this subject that all posters to this thread should read. The author of the piece ends it with the words "Perhaps somewhere deep in his crypt in Bath Abby, Malthus is quietly wagging a bony finger and saying, "Told you so" | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/13/2009 4:04:58 PM | I see a few posters blaming the "greedy farmers". Sorry...but MOST farmers don't make a very good living at all...usually they make less than minimum wage per hour.
Most farmers have to have outside jobs to be able to afford to keep their farms.
The big "factory farms" are different. It is just another 8-4 job for most people.
I saw a pamphlet here for summer jobs for students. At a pig farm they were going to be paid just over 20 dollars per hour. Must have been at a gov't facility or a huge factory farm. This gives those students a false expectation as to how much their time is actually worth after graduation. Nobody pays more than 10 bucks an hour here for that kind of work, IF that at all. Most small farmers certainly don't make that kind of money.
During "mad cow" disease in Canada, there was a huge glut on the market of beef because they couldn't export it. Did the prices plunge? Go down at all? Nope. The marjetable cows were either "stockpiled" or killed and buried. These were NOT contaminated animals.
As far as a world wide pandemic caused by crowded animal conditins...we already have swine flu running rampant. 500 sick here so far, two dead.
most farms take very good care of their animals because that is where they make their money. Sure...conditions may well BE crowded...but it is the ONLY way to make a profit form it.
There are those against it....fine...they are entitled to their opinion. I'd like to see them provide a solution instead. Not one can though. Not one person against factory farming has EVER come up with a viable solution to it, which would keep prices in line so that the product is available to most people, as it is now.
Until they CAN come up with something...their "opinion" isn't worth a pile of steaming dog crap. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/13/2009 7:01:48 PM | | hi... this problem turned me into a vegetarian over 25 yrs ago... free run, organic meat and dairy at all costs now....blessings for health, warmly Mona | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/13/2009 9:00:28 PM | I don't know enough about food production in the United States to offer a comment. I do, however, plan on going to the movies.
Food Inc. trailer:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/70823/movie-trailers-food-inc#x-4,vfilm_trailer,6 | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/13/2009 9:40:35 PM |
How much does this concern you?
Not much anymore. Obama's giving free health care. So how the meat is raised and how healthy it is doesn't really matter. So what if I get sick. I won't have to pay to get better and the food is cheap.
So piss poor diet, and free medical technology to prolong my life. WOO HOO.
Would you pay more for all the benefits involved in non factory production?
Only up to a point. NIMBY, my ability to vote, and the Wal-Mart effect means I will never have to, and don't have to feel bad about it.
negatively effects the health of their meat
Wait...are you saying the animals are less healthy? Or that we become less healthy from eating the meat? Or do you mean their meat is less "tasty" or "juicy" or "succulent" or that there is less meat per animal, just more animals to produce meat from?
It has to be time to go back to humane farming...
No such thing. Farming means control and use of something for human benefit.
Humane is a word like altruistic. It's there to make people feel better about themselves (or help the process of rationalization) by focusing on the intent for doing something they would normally classify as "bad," or, "self centered," or, "greedy."
"I'm going to kill you violently and eat you Mr. Chicken. But I'm going to let you run around in a bigger cage first and let you breed more healthy chickens for me to eat later. Because I'm humane."
Wouldn't "humane" be to abolish all farms and people get to eat what they can catch (for meat at least, include the homeless in classifying game animals...give the chickens a fair chance)?
It is reported that the way cattle, pigs and chickens are confined is horrible for them
I know! Have you SEEN all the complaint forms they filled out? It's crazy! That's at least HALF of OSHA's schedule for the next 8 years. | |
|
| Factory Farming & the problem
Posted: 6/14/2009 3:27:20 AM | Modern farming methods are the reason i decided to go veggie at the age of 14. Animals are injected with steriods to make them bigger therefore more meat to profit the farmers. Anti biotics are given to the animals to prevent them from becoming ill, this is being fed to them, then they fed to you. Some of those drugs are getting into your system and im sure you all know the benefits of anti biotics when your ill and in need of them, but when your not ill and not in need yet they still get into your system, then you build up an immunity. Should you ever be ill and require anti biotics, your body will have become slightly immune to their affect, therefore not fight off the infection so easily.
The way the animals are kept in tiny spaces is cruel. Chickens are so tightly packed in they loose the ability to walk, hold their bodies upright and they are stacked on top of each other, sh!ting on each other. We all know the dangers of bird poo, right, Salmonella. Most of these birds are actualy infected with the disease, its only the way you cook it that kills off the bug and as you probably know, the infection can easily be transfered to hands and kitchen items before the bird goes in the oven.
Do you know that pregnant pigs are kept in tiny cages, when they give birth they have no room to move about, lie down in comfort etc. As soon as the pig gives birth, the piglets are taken away and fed artificialy while the mother is still left in that standing position in her cage, exhausted and in pain mentaly and physicaly. Yes animals have hormones too, just like any mother who has given birth will grieve if her babies are taken away so soon without being given the chance to feed them as they should be fed.
These animals are living creatures seen as nothing but profitable items by farmers greedy to make more money.
Also consider the environmental impact on the planet. Cattle are now fed on more soya than anything else. The rainforests are being stripped down to make room to grow more soya, not for us veggies before anyone starts on that, but for low cost animal feed. Then there are the chemicals used by farmers on the animals enclosures, they are sprayed with incecticieds containing carciogenics. These animals you are eating have been standing in pools of cancer causing chemicals that the farmer would allow on his skin, he probably wears protective clothing. These chemicals are also soaked into the ground.
I am not promoting vegetarianism here, but just asking that you consider buying your meat more ethicaly, organic, free range if you really need to eat it. Have some consideration for the feelings of these animals, their freedom to be animals and the impact on the planet.
Please dont turn this into a veggie bashing session. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
