| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/5/2009 3:46:55 PM | I have notice on POF as in other spheres how much we communicate, argue and discuss, not to learn, not to teach, but to assert our dominance over others. (look at me I 'won' an arguement...ain't I smart...now somebody please f*ck me!)
Personally I believe that it is this drive which underlies most of our personal, social, and global problems.
I find myself falling into this pattern of thinking often (how many times have I deleted a self-made post that veered away into the ugly). It leads me to believe that it is 'hardwired' into our system somehow... a basic animalistic 'belittle or be belittled' type of thing.
I wonder what your thoughts are and how you believe a person can move through this instinctive impulse. | |
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Tauon
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Joined: 2/24/2009
Msg: 2 | |
| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/5/2009 4:44:02 PM | | I agree that humans are very dominant by nature. But, I do not consider this a fatal flaw, and I think an intelligent reasonable person can learn a great deal from an arguement. When I argue with someone I list references and prove my arguement to be true, I provide facts. I give people what they need to see my side of the issue. There is nothing wrong with arguement or debate, so long as you can keep it civil, and there is a great deal to be learned from disagreement. If there was no dissent, there would never be change or progress. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/5/2009 5:22:36 PM | I wouldn't take the online nastiness as a real indicator of the true state of human affairs; the inevitable anonymity allows the naturally spineless to express extreme views and venomous hatred that would only gain for them, in "real" life, a night in jail, a weekend in a rubber-lined room in a strait jacket, or a bloody, broken nose- or any combination of those.
Ask any bloodied inhabitant of the local drunk tank why he's there, and amid the ramblings and the denials and the pathetic whining you'll eventually hear some variation of "I stood up for what I believe in."
It's hard to punch out a jack@ss online. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/5/2009 8:50:18 PM | Most humans are fairly submissive, apathetic, try to avoid confrontation or responsibility... I'm guilty of it too, how many have avoided extra responsibility at work or home because its easier to do something else? Or walked by a crime in progress? How many of us have ever stood eye to eye with a superior instead of keeping our mouths shut and doing what we're told despite not being entirely comfortable with whats going on?
Domination achieved by most is over submissive "easy" participants. Eg- the natural world, employees afraid for their jobs... How many people have taken crap from our boss when we've really wanted to tell them to get stuffed? | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/5/2009 10:56:03 PM | It is sad to see how mankind has this driving need to be correct all the time. I find it rather ironic though that we tend to learn the most when we are wrong. So perhaps those that always feel the need to be correct all the time are truly the ignorant ones since they lack the benefit of learning experiences because they are always correct.
As far as POF is concerned, there are about a half dozen or so in the Science/Philosophy forums that argue incessantly over a wide range of topics.
We see them waltz in,, use subversive innuendo's about someone, then proceed to proclaim their idea as "BS"," idiotic", or after stating a rebutal end it with demeaning saying like; "just thought I'd say", and than use the emoticons to taunt their unsubstantiated points.
These men (for the most part) are very insecure boys who can only feel good about themselves by attempting to humiliate others on this site. They are surely no one I would care to meet.
If I have taken anything from my experiences on POF it would be to learn respect and kindness.
Well, and maybe a couple of dates also :-) | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 12:48:25 AM | I think it depends on how a person is driven from past experiences. If they are resilient in how to problem solve in a healthy way by learning from past mistakes, they are generally more open-minded and supportive in their responses, even it it's not necessarily the response you want to hear. Also, people with more intellect will likely sleep on a response before they answer should the topic be controversial and maybe even research it before making a response because they are not aware of many facts surrounding the topic.
In comparison you have people who are always focused on failures and base their responses from negative emotions which then only produces a lack of judgment and good common sense. These are the people who make insinuations instead of posing a question for clarification.
Out of all the forums I've read and responded on, I would say that the Single Parent Forum is the most volatile. I find Ask a Guy forum the most useless ... not that a man's opinion is useless, but that women ask the dumbest questions it seems. For instance, "Why doesn't he like me?" I"m like ... OMG ... he's not that into you ... why buy the cow when he's getting the milk for free .... and many other things baffle me about that forum. In the Ask a Girl thread, there are more men who respond then the women. I can't really blame them, as it seems the women who respond don't usually provide good advise. And it doesn't matter on the person's age either. I've seen very young women in their 20s have much more brains and moxie then those twice their age, and visa versa. I really can't say that there is a 'best' forum though.
Now I wouldn't say I'm a dominant woman, but I am assertive. To my best ability, I use tact and respect, but will admit it is difficult to respond to the energy suckers. I don't necessarily enjoy being on the internet, but due to my current medical condition, I am home most of the time, so I'm back on the net to just kill time when I'm in too much pain to work on my new home or I've extended myself as I could physically during the day. Overall, I don't know many people where I'm newly living, but do have plans to look at some meet up groups so to find new and close by people to become friends with. But I find that on the forums, and on other similar sites, there are many jaded people.
When we are online, we have limitations with fully using communication skills. We only see the written skills, so what we perceive as verbal skills from others are generally misconstrued. Verbally, we can't hear pitch or tone. And there is no way of interpreting non-verbal skills. Hence, people are tempted to interpret what is written in a narrow minded view, even if done subconsciously. Others get-off on being cyber bullies. I've had my share of those, and a couple months ago I decided I'm done with carrying on an argument with others online. I get to the point and say what I mean, not mean what I say.
IT has it's pros and cons, definitely. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 4:32:58 AM |
It leads me to believe that it is 'hardwired' into our system somehow... a basic animalistic 'belittle or be belittled' type of thing.
First, in this day and age, you must think about how much is "hardwired" and how much is mass-media advertising. For instance, most people in the industrial world watch commercial TV a LOT. To entice you to spend money for crap you don't need, the hustlers must appeal to the Lowest Common Denominator. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 8:17:08 AM | I think that there can be ratcheting up in communicating here and elsewhere that doesn't often escalate to the levels it can here, because people are constrained by optics and self-preservation.
Many believe that this medium affords anonymity that they can project whatever they want. Online seems for some merely a playground to sport and toy with dominance--it's enjoyment, a pastime.
I agree that humans are very dominant by nature. But, I do not consider this a fatal flaw, and I think an intelligent reasonable person can learn a great deal from an arguement.
^^^I agree with this. Further I think it is extremely important to look at how someone argues online---a lot is revealed. I pay close attention to the level of aggressiveness in the comebacks. To remain calm reasoned and intelligent in an online discussion with people who may not share your particular viewpoint is much easier here than doing so in real life, in part because we’re given an opportunity to pause--because we’re typing.
Given that why do some live on a virtual flash point? Shrieking wild assumptions, consistently seeing conspiracies where there are none, defiantly ignoring cogent rebuttal that clearly suggests an error in thinking. That behavior tells me a lot of things; but more importantly, it makes me question why I would ever want to have an up close, in your face, day-to-day relationship with that? | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 3:41:18 PM | I use simple math.
Two wrongs do not make a right. Nothing good can come from bad intent. A negative number times a positive one is still a negative result.
And then I apply hard-earned social management skills.
Never accuse, always inquire. Lead the other person to clarify both their intent and their argument (it will give you time to form an answer and let them blow off steam if that's all they need). The point of finishing an argument is that both parties are satisfied in having been heard, or come to a mutual conclusion.
There's also the theological and philosophical diversity I grew up with, which helps me forgive when others act selfishly or childishly. It's much easier to live life without conflict when you realize that bullying stems from insecurity, that anger stems from fear. This means that someone too agressive is actually very graceless and weak of character, no matter how 'badass' they might seem. (I blame Hollywood.)
That's not to say I don't appreciate a good go-round in the ring, though. Some of my best friends are uncompromising elitist jerks, and it's always fun to challenge their egos. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 3:46:19 PM | My anger does not stem from fear at all it stems from it works to gain what I want at that point.
I would say being peaceful is you just trying to play a moral conquer games with rules made up by the weak so they dont get squashed by the strong. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 4:15:31 PM |
...we communicate, argue and discuss, not to learn, not to teach, but to assert our dominance over others.
Yes, it's definitely a human trait. I know I've caught myself doing it in the past as well. Sometimes people do discuss topics simply to get all around opinions, but I'd say much of it comes from wanting to convince others that your (using 'your' generally here) way of thinking is the correct, and/or only way; as you described it, the 'lookit me, I won an arguement, see me thump my chest' approach. And that can come from either being too close-minded about other ideas, or it can come from feeling threatened in some way, or insecure. It seems to me that someone who is secure with their own beliefs will discuss at length to another why they believe their views are right and the other's is wrong, which is how a reasonable and productive debate would run...and would perhaps be beneficial to one or more of the participants. But if the person (or persons) continues to demand that they are right, and tempers flare, names and accusations get flung about and an opposing view - no matter how 'out there' it may seem - is mocked, berated and ridiculed, then I'd ask myself, if I were the person doing the flinging, what is it that is getting under my skin so much...and why?? If a person has faith in their own beliefs then they can discuss, and yes, debate or argue to a point, but in the end that person won't get upset. They may shake their heads to themselves in disbelief perhaps over the opposing viewpoint, but they will not feel threatened and will not lash out if a security lies within.
I wonder what your thoughts are and how you believe a person can move through this instinctive impulse.
How to move through it? By having enough respect for another to know that not everyone is going to share the same beliefs as you. By having enough security in your (again, generalizing) own beliefs to not feel threatened when someone vehemently disagrees with you. By recognizing that as wild, closeminded, or opposite another viewpoint may seem, that it IS someone else's. And by recognizing that you are not always right...nor do you have to be. Competition can sometimes be a great thing with us humans - something that I think arose as part of our survival instincts. We just tend to not know when to turn it down. Just as we tend to sometimes not recognize when we feel 'threatened'. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 7:25:53 PM | | Forums online and talk radio are special cases. They invite and promote bombast. Meanwhile, elsewhere, people are doing fine having conversations without resorting to boorish declarations. Humanity has never been in better shape than now, in numbers, health, literacy and wisdom, not to mention the greater perspective we enjoy with our new view backwards along our progress, it seems to me. It helps me when I filter the noise and concern myself instead with the more amicable and collaborative kinds of exchange. | |
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| Instinctive Drive for Dominance; Humanity's Downfall
Posted: 5/6/2009 7:47:52 PM | | its very simple really..mans most basic instinct is to survive..and when you state something you believe true or your personal opinion..your putting your emotional welfare out there to be attack. i have a question... whats the easiest way to incapacitate or conquer something or someone? you find what they are emotionally attached to in one capacity or another and attack it...now sense everything we say and do comes from or personality and is our emotions..essential us..who and ehat we are at the mental level being attacked this way is often worse then physicaly...man feels threaten at the inner most level and retaliates out of the most basic instinct to survive without being hurt...ex..ego deflation, getting made fun of and so on...this is one of the major problems with the human psyche...very few people can handle the emotional attacks on their being...few people can simply say your right im wrong teach me...most cant even ask for help..they would rather fail then do so. Taoist have developed the best way to resolve this major problem with humanity...sadly few people have the intellectual ability to reprogram themselves. | |
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