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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 5:33:22 PM | VANCOUVER — A Quebec man who watched his wife die during nine frigid days lost in the B.C. backcountry is suing for negligence.
Blackburn’s wife, Marie-Josee Fortin, 44, died of hypothermia seven days into the ordeal.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/05/08/9397716.html | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 5:48:37 PM | yeah, he wanders into an off limit area with her, KNOWINGLY, KNOWING the risks involved, and now he's suing?
What an idiot. Whatever happened to being held accountable for your own actions rather then pointing fingers?
Be prepared, this thread is bound to get heated.... | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 6:25:23 PM | His argument seems to be the SOS that was ignored 3 different times, and why?........The attitude of some people is, i'm here in body but not in mind, therefore i depend on authorities/those in charge to baby-sit me or else.... | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 7:15:01 PM | Ok gonna say my piece.
Yes I aggre they broke the rules, But if my memerior serves me at all ...from what i remember from news reports...at one point a Mountie or some other on the news said protacal had NOT been followed..ie the proper checking out of the SOS .
This man has paid the ultimate price....he had to sit with his wife and watch her die in his arms...can YOU emagine the guilt he had and the dispair he now lives with..I can not!!!
Would any amount of money really help!!!
No i think the reason ( at least i hope) for the law suit is to find out who or why the prtocal was NOT followed properly in this case and to in the future make sure the protactal for such a situation like this is FOLLOWED TO THE LETTER. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 7:50:20 PM |
No i think the reason ( at least i hope) for the law suit is to find out who or why the prtocal was NOT followed properly in this case and to in the future make sure the protactal for such a situation like this is FOLLOWED TO THE LETTER.
Sorry, but I can't buy that theory. If protocol is in question in this instance, an inquiry would be held by the governing body i.e in this case, the RCMP or ordered by either a federal or provincial governmental body. In this case a private citizen has commenced the law suit and, in all my years in the legal field, when a law suit is commenced it is for monetary benefit.
Clearly, this individual is attempting to place blame on someone other than himself and the deceased for their negligence of skiing out of bounds and is looking to the Canadian taxpayer to be compensated for their own negligence. Canada is rapidly becoming a litigious country much the same as our neighbour to the south is. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 9:34:39 PM | | when you are out of bounds, your on your own...same as breaking the law..deal with it and move on in life, this is not the USA where everything is settled in a law suit | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 9:36:17 PM | | People do dumb stuff all the time. They wander off, get lost, get confused, cause avalanches, car accidents, fires, all kinds of stuff. Luckily, there are lots of "safety nets" to protect us dumbies. Insurance for people who crash their cars or burn their houses down, consumer protection agencies to save people from buying fake Gucci's, RECA to protect people from buying the wrong house, and so on. Lots of people require attention beyond what is deserved or warranted because no one is an expert in everything, yet we're always venturing beyond our proven capabilities. This dim wit skied off into oblivion but he still deserved better care and attention by people who should have known better. Seems like the whole point of search and rescue is to take care of those who screw up, not those who are capable and smart enough to stay out of trouble. I did search and rescue in Yosemite valley for two summers which mostly amounted to picking up people off the sides of cliffs with bbq tongs. Most of them were just trying to get better pictures. But sometimes climbers would get stuck, off route, caught in storms, injured half way up, whatever. They all should have had more climbing experience, should have had better equipment, been less stoned or just watched the weather forecast before leaving. But that doesn't mean there isn't a liability on the rescuers to be competent in what they are doing. We send a firetruck, police cruiser and two ambulances to every fender bender in town yet no response at all to an sos in fresh snow. Someone f''ed up. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 9:59:45 PM | OMG!WTF!....Oh you said it much better than I.
Search and Rescue is there for those in need ..no matter the fault.
This man and women didn't get Help ..There was a screw up .
How would any of you like to here OPPS We screwed up sorry Your loved one Died. we will try harder next time!!!!
Something broken needs to be fixed to ensure ALL OUR SAFTY. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 10:03:25 PM | | I can't believe the heartlessness of some of the posts on this thread. She deserved to die? To suffer and die of exposure? They tried to get help after they messed up. Don't we all mess up at some point? If skiing and other mountain sports wasn't an activity that involved some risk there wouldn't be search and rescue organizations. No one deserves to have their SOS ignored and be left to die or to watch their spouse die despite trying to get help. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/8/2009 11:22:25 PM | Good lord...not this one again !!!!!!
First of all...no said the woman deserved to die.
Secondly...the SOS was NOT in fresh snow.
Thirdly...even if the SOS had been investigated better ( although it was indeed reported twice ) no one would have found the couple because they did not stay anywhere near the SOS they had written in the snow.
FACTs -
The couple were out of bounds...skiing illegally as it were.
Out of bounds areas are very clearly marked...do not ski out of bounds....dangerous, you can die.
The couple told no one where they were going or when they were to return.
The SOS was reported....it was investigated....no missing persons reports, no ski rentals had been unreturned, no abandonded vehicles in the ski resorts parking lots...thus, no reason to assume that anyone was, in fact, missing !!!
It is unfortuante, but fake SOS signals are written in the snow, on rocks, on the beach...all the time....as pranks. So, unless someone is actually missing, there are not enough resources to search for what would have appeared to be nothing.
IF the couple had stayed in bounds..they'd both be alive and well.
IF they had told someone where they were headed and when they'd be back...they would have been reported missing and the signal would have been investigated further.
IF they had stayed by their signal...the choppers that saw the signal also would have seen them. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 6:45:43 AM | He actually made five SOS imprints, three because new snow covered up the old ones.
no one would have found the couple because they did not stay anywhere near the SOS they had written in the snow.
Unless they hovered around or swung from trees, there would have been tracks in the snow from each SOS imprint. In fact the chopper pilot reports indicated tracks to or from each imprint. You wouldn't even need Mantracker to figure that one out.
The couple were out of bounds...skiing illegally as it were.
Out of bounds areas are very clearly marked...do not ski out of bounds....dangerous, you can die.
So what's the point of mountain search and rescue if anyone who goes out of bounds doesn't qualify? Every resort already has ski patrols for inside their boundaries. If nobody screwed up there would be no reason for search and rescue. It's like this, when they show you the flooded out road on the news and some dummy stuck on the roof of his/her car in the middle of the torrent, why the hell would anyone waste any time trying to rescue them. They were stupid, clearly "out of bounds", so they should die.
It is unfortuante, but fake SOS signals are written in the snow, on rocks, on the beach...all the time....as pranks
There aren't too many pranksters hanging out 27 km's deep in the mountains in the middle of winter. 911 has to answer all their calls too, even if the pranksters phone back and 'fess up. If you can look at an SOS signal and discerne its validity based on your visual observations alone, then you need to get a job doing so. Would M'AIDE have been a better choice for a snow message?
IF they had stayed by their signal...the choppers that saw the signal also would have seen them.
They moved to an area where they had seen several choppers flying skiers around. Logically they moved to a proven flight path where he actually did flag a chopper down. In hind sight, you're absolutely correct, but they did the logical thing at the time.
The SOS was reported....it was investigated....no missing persons reports, no ski rentals had been unreturned, no abandonded vehicles in the ski resorts parking lots...thus, no reason to assume that anyone was, in fact, missing !!!
Actually the hotel did report an abandoned vehicle in their lot. But again, an sos in fresh backcountry snow is material, patent evidence of distress. What else do you need to verify that someone was there stomping letters into the snow? Writing the SOS off because there were no unreturned ski rentals, no abandoned hotel rooms is retarded. You're trumping patent evidence with hearsay evidence. They didn't rent skis, they checked out of their room, they didn't tell anyone they would be gone because they hadn't planned on leaving. What they did do was spell out SOS in the snow.
Charge them thousands in rescue costs if you want. Charge pranksters criminally when you track then down. But there's no point in wasting money on a trained mountian s/r team or on trained rcmp rescue teams if you're not going to use them in appropriate situations. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 7:26:50 AM | 'In the lawsuit, the resort is accused of negligence for “failing to instruct the staff of Kicking Horse Resort to post notices or warning signs, barriers or other devices at or near the boundary of Kicking Horse Resort indicating that there is no exit from Canyon Creek which they ought to have known could lead to injury or death.” '
Sounds like he's grasping at straws here....seriously.
There are warning signs at ALL ski resorts at ALL out of bounds areas that can be accessed from the groomed runs......why on earth would they need to post more signs saying...Hey, when you ignore our original warnings and go out of bounds anyhow...there's no way out if you wander around the bush for 7 days?????????
Ski resports are NOT legally responsible for those who ignore the rules and wander away from their property !!!!!
PERIOD.
'The RCMP and search and rescue are both accused of negligence for failing to initiate a ground search and for failing to make reasonable enquiries on whether someone was missing.'
I agree with one thing and one thing only...a ground search should have been launched, regardless of whether the SOS signals were real.
That's it, that's all the responsibility of SAR and RCMP had.
As to them failing to make reasonable inquiries into any missing persons.....exactly what should they have done???????????
This couple left absolutely NO CLUES, NO RECORDS....nothing of where they were or where they were going or when they should be expected back...nothing.
There would have been no clues of missing persons.
They failed to follow the number one rule of back country skiing....tell someone your plans...as a results, no one had any idea they were missing...not even their family. So..how were RCMP supposed to know?????? | |
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D_rail
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Joined: 1/14/2007
Msg: 19 | |
| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 8:12:55 AM | Janalta, you have raised several good points, but you've left one out . . .
The couple had checked out of the hotel and then went skiing in an out of bounds area. As I remember from an original newscast, they had also moved their car out of the hotel parking lot . . . So, when the first S.O.S. was spotted and a search of the parking lot was conducted, nothing was noticed as "amiss." Go Figure???
Both the husband and his wife made some bad decisions and now he has followed it up with another bad decision; to try to find someone else to blame for their stupidity. Perhaps he feels he needs to do this to be able to look his children in the eye again? Who knows?
What happened was sad and unfortunate, but if this is a case of laying blame, then the husband needs to look in the mirror.
JMO | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 8:24:10 AM | Taken from this article:
http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/40299298.html
Feb 14. Couple checks into Mountaineer Lodge. They had only booked one nights stay. They checked out Feb 15 and left rental car parked under neath the Lodge in a secured underground parking lot.
Feb 15:
"Cpl. Moskaluk admitted that Blackburn and Fortin made the conscious decision to enter the back-country by ducking the ropes that clearly define the controlled recreation area of KHMR. The pair lost their way and spent the next nine days lost in the Canyon Creek area outside KHMR." ~so how is the resort responsible for their actions????
Feb 17th:
"February 17, a local heli-skiing company received a call from an off-duty ski guide touring the area. He advised that he had located an SOS sign and strange tracks west of the KHMR. The resort was contacted to check if they had any reports of missing skiers. According to the RCMP, it appears that at this time that the Golden and District Search and Rescue (GADSAR) and the local RCMP detachment were not contacted."
"On Tuesday, Feb. 17, 2009, Kicking Horse Mountain Resort (KHMR) was notified by Purcell Helicopter Skiing of SOS tracks in the snow outside of the resort's controlled recreation area. KHMR management immediately contacted Golden Search and Rescue. The resort also conducted a base area search which included checking for vehicles left in surface area parking lots over night. KHMR also informed night-time snow grooming operators and security personnel to watch for any back-country skiers entering the ski area. There were no results of this search producing any evidence of potentially missing persons."
Feb 21:
"February 21, a group returning from a ski trip saw 2 more SOS signs and notified a local heli-skiing company who in turn reported it to the Golden RCMP. A search was not called at that point."
"On Saturday, Feb. 21, 2009, the Golden RCMP informed KHMR that the Purcell Helicopter Skiing had provided them (RCMP) with information about more SOS tracks in the back-country. The Golden RCMP opened a file and had no reports of any missing persons."
Feb 24:
"On February 24, Golden RCMP activated search and rescue after they were notified that an individual appeared to be in need of assistance. Police were called when a helicopter pilot spotted a man waving in an out-of-bounds area near KHMR. Search and rescue subsequently attended the location and rescued Blackburn. They also located and retrieved the deceased Fortin."
"After the search and eventual rescue and recovery on Feb. 24, the RCMP received more information that led to the discovery of the couple's car in the secured underground parking lot of the hotel." ~the car was not located until the 24th of Feb. So no proof or reports of a missing persons or person until they were found.....
I do agree that a search should have been called out on Feb 21st when RCMP received the first reports of the SOSes. Otherwise I think they did not do much else wrong and a lawsuit is ridiculous. The couple made the conscious choice to leave a safe area and go into unknown territory with no safety equipment or precautions in place. No one was notified of what they were doing or where they were going. The wife did not deserve to die, but given their actions she paid the ultimate price for their mistakes and choices. What happened to being accountable for your own actions??? Of course everyone should be entitled to search and rescue. That is not the question though. The question is should the RCMP and KHMR resort be accountable and sued? I certainly do not think the resort did anything wrong and as stated earlier. I do feel the RCMP should have done a proper search and rescue on the 21st when they were first informed, but to sue them? For his actions and decisions? I don't agree and am going with NO. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 8:45:50 AM | | The way I see it, once it was determined that someone was missing, they went out and found them. Had the couple left any kind of "paper trail", their absense would have been discovered earlier. Seems to me that they went out of their way NOT to let anyone know what they were doing. If this guy can sue the hotel, the hotel should be able to countersue, for defamation of character or something. The guy has only himself to blame. Some people just can't deal with that. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 12:38:48 PM |
What an idiot. Whatever happened to being held accountable for your own actions rather then pointing fingers?
deal with it and move on in life,
Some of the 'compassionate' comments. Yes JanAlta, no one said she deserved to die. They just implied it. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 12:45:06 PM | NO Alli-Son...no one even implied that she deserved to die.
Everyone has compassion for someone who loses a loved one.
What people have no compassion or tolerance for are people who do stupid things, irresponsible things, dangerous things..and then turn around and try to blame everyone else but themselves for doing it.
His wife paid the ultimate price for their stupidity....NO ONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE TO. | |
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| Widower sues Mounties, B.C. resort ---Yes, or No?
Posted: 5/9/2009 3:01:06 PM | I may be wrong here but the real issue here is should the grief stricken husband be able to sue and gain money from his wife's death!
If you have ever lost someone who was very close to you, you would know that this is not his issue!! He has no idea what is up or down at this point and I'll bet he does blame himself. I believe family members have encouraged him to seek out a lawyer and sue. I cannot imagine laying with a loved one in my arms and seeing the helicopter fly over and thinking we would be rescued and then nothing and watching my significant other die must be pretty traumatic and I'll bet he is still in shock!
I believe this is a sensless death on the part of the husband/wife and the authorities both parties are in the wrong!
In Canada big judgements are not given out unlike the States and the only person to get any real money will be the lawyer!!
It is my hope that the lawyer gives the client 6 months to think about dropping case or going forward as 6 months down the road he may want to drop it and move on with his life but will not be able to as the cost of lawyer will be an excessive amount of money and may feel he will have to go through with case to pay for the lawyer fees. I don't think that having to live through this over and over again for many years to come in court is worth any amount of money!! I do believe he will get some money and is entitled but in my opion there isn't enough money in the world, that will lessen the guilt I know he must be feeling!! | |
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