| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/19/2009 11:08:47 AM | As they say, so goes California, so goes America. 21 Billion in debt, but they won't cut the budget for the Sea Otter, LMFAO. Pay reductions for state workers, SEIU union strong arms Obama to hold back 6 billion in money. Feds will want mandates to bail out Cali, just like the banks, car companies, here comes the Fed. California is the canary in the U.S. coal mine.
http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/agencies.html
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/19/2009 12:03:59 PM | | Blood running in the streets won't really occur until inflation returns...with a vengence. The FED is printing $529,000,000 per day. (According to the tourguide @ the BEP.) | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/19/2009 12:13:26 PM | They are trying to buy our arses. Let us all work our way out of it...
"California Treasurer Bill Lockyer asked U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Wednesday to authorize assistance for his state from the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program, warning that depressed tax revenues may cut into basic services and halt the building of infrastructure."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/california-treasurer-requests-tarp-help
This is like watching a very scary movie unfold.
More on TARP, founded in 2008?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARP
Have you heard of this?
The Office of Financial Stability
The Office of Financial Stability is a new office within the Office of Domestic Finance of the United States Treasury created by the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 to operate the Troubled Assets Relief Program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Financial_Stability
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 6:27:01 AM | Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
- John Kenneth Galbraith | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 9:26:15 AM | The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville 1805–1859
California is in trouble because the the idiots we elect are elected by even bigger idiots.... Every halfbaked crackpot idea gets taxpayers $$$$ | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 9:41:56 AM | "California is the canary in the U.S. coal mine."
We were the 5th largest economy in the world.... we are the canary for the world coal mine. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 12:13:58 PM | | They need to pass a law that deficit spending should not be allowed unless two thirds of the voters agree. That alone would stem the flow of red ink. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 1:46:59 PM | | ^^^ True. This is not the kind of situation that people should just be standing by and not voting on. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 1:57:03 PM | A balanced budget: So the state is overbudget by x%, but won't reduce spending. Raise the taxes by x%. Period. Done. End of story.
Oh! When Ms. and Mr. NeuveauCali hear that they have to pay more, maybe they'll get interested real fast in where it's being spent? Ya think? .......................naw!
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 3:02:17 PM | They need to pass a law that deficit spending should not be allowed unless two thirds of the voters agree. That alone would stem the flow of red ink.
Good idea, but I don't like its chances. President Obama may well be long out of office when the bills for his reckless proposals come due. Let someone else clean up after the orgy. This country now contains enough drones who have the vote to make candidates like Mr. Obama viable. Of course they love him! In return for their votes, he promises them something for nothing. And he then makes good on that promise by taking what rightfully belongs to more productive people (and a couple generations of their descendants) and giving it to all those millions with their hands out.
These parasites--many of whom care little or nothing about this country and its traditions--know that if they steal goods from other Americans directly, it's a crime. But when politicians they help elect use (or abuse) their authority to accomplish the same thing, it's all perfectly legal. The Founders of this country had studied examples of this from history, and they were well aware of the danger it posed for everyone who owned property of any kind. They called it "the rule of the mob."
And all the same applies to California. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 3:36:51 PM | History is a bitch
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.
Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55
Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.
John Adams
The last act of a dieing aristocracy is to rob the treasury.
Author Unknown
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 4:51:05 PM | Matchlight and fzrhusker, I like the way you gents think.
I think it will take a series of unfortunate events such as high energy taxes, rapid inflation, high unemployment to trigger a storm large enough to promote fundamental change.
We need a balanced budget amendment to the CA constitution
We need to reduce government regulations to make CA business friendly
We need across the board tax cuts on individuals and corporations to spur economic growth.
We need a method in place to hold politicians responsible for their actions
We need to eliminate every program which is not directly authorized by the CA Constitution. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 5:18:33 PM | "They need to pass a law that deficit spending should not be allowed unless two thirds of the voters agree."
Ok... but the deficit spending is caused by a significant drop in income. If income had not dropped, then spending wouldn't have been deficit. So, when income drops under your rules than spending has to drop. Now, some spending can't be dropped like that. Some stuff is long term purchases already contracted and you can't back out of it reasonably.
So, of those expenses that can be cut, like wages, what gets cut first? What were we spending money on that was optional? | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 5:20:35 PM | "There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."
Which is why we are not a democracy. We are a representative republic. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 6:01:26 PM | CNC California is a representative democracy by proposition.
America is a Representative democracy.
Not trying to sound rude but fundamentally the quote argument is semantics, everyone's common reference to the USA is its a democracy.
Chicken or Egg.
As a previous business owner I got out of business because of the excessive regulation. Now companies need to be put in check, but don't drive them out, you are slapping the hand that feeds you.
Its time for business people to take over the state legislature, and send them back out into the real world.
Here is a little story for you. I owned a Armed Guard service. Well as soon as my state licenses were approved I got a bill from the CAL EPA. Now I know that major manufacturers have to pay a heavy metal tax for things like batteries ect. So I get this bill and I think its a mistake. I call the EPA and they tell me no its right, your armed guards carry lead bullets. I frickin couldn't stop laughing and the guy at the EPA got mad, "This is a very serious issue" I paid the bill and after my 4 th year in business, rate hikes, license fee hikes and watching the regulatory agency announce pay raises every time they raised fees. Oh and the agency could only process a certain amount of license for my people per day, or they violated their union agreement. Well you get the picture.
2.5 administrators for every 3 teachers in Cali, highest paid teachers in the U.S. worst schools in the country.
How about getting rid of some of the overpaid people at the top and middle and save 2 jobs for every one.
Save the otter, save the turtle etc, these and things like these should be charities and not state sponsored. If you can't raise the money privately then apparently its not something the people would vote for.
Social programs gone out of control. No more printing DMV stuff in 12 different languages.
No marketing money for PSAs and awareness campaigns.
I could go on forever. California has become a bad joke with a beach. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 8:40:47 PM | When a state wants to over regulate and over tax business, the businesses, and those people who pay those taxes... leave the state.
This is what has caused a major drop in collecting taxes in California, so... what do they do? over compensate and make the taxes higher and put on more regulation to chase out more companies.
While they spend more on programs they can't afford. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 9:23:52 PM | I've had to chuckle over the posts on this thread. You all do realize you are just crying on each other's (right wing) shoulders? In the last three years the nation's voters
as a whole, and California's in particular have resoundingly rejected the Republican Party's message. We can argue til the cows come home about how that message, such as it is, was presented to the populace. Clearly the Party's message just did not get through to the people who actually vote.
So, just for fun, let's postulate a hypothetical. You've made it clear in these posts that you blame unions, corporations, corrupt politicians, tree-hugging environmentalists and a very long list of "others" for the ills of California government.
So here's the hypothetical: You, the conservative/right wing/noble Americans/politically savvy have taken absolute control of California's government. Doesn't matter how, it just magically happens. So, you OWN the government of the state. Now, sadly, you also inherit the (Republican) Gubernator's $21 billion dollar debt. But now, YOU have the power. So, what will you do with that power? You can cut taxes all you like...you can hack and slash at all of those distasteful state government programs, boards, panels, advisory committee's you like. It's now YOUR government.
So what, specifically, would you slash from government costs? Do you just ignore infrastructure? Cut taxes to the bone for the rich and corporations and hope there will be some kind of "trickle-down"? Cut all of those nasty social programs that try to minimize the plight of the poor? the immigrant? the less-mentally-capable segment of our population?
How, if you even bother to try, do you balance the needs of the incredibly diverse population of California with the available money? Cut every program, slash education costs deep into the muscle of the system (more than the six billion the Gubernator has already cut)?
How, without taxation, do you propose to run a state government? Perhaps we could franchise highways, sell them to Pepsi or McDonald's, like the Staples Center in LA?
I pose these questions because I'm genuinely curious. I hear, and heed, your complaints of how government actually works (or not, your choice) in California.
So again, what concrete proposals would you try to sell to all of the people of California, should you manage to seize control of the Exectutive and both Houses of the Legislature?
We've already gotten the whining about taxes being too high, and how nasty unions are. What REAL solutions do you on the right have to offer? | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 9:52:39 PM |
So what, specifically, would you slash from government costs? Do you just ignore infrastructure? Cut taxes to the bone for the rich and corporations and hope there will be some kind of "trickle-down"? Cut all of those nasty social programs that try to minimize the plight of the poor? the immigrant? the less-mentally-capable segment of our population?
Put an absolute stop to ANY spending of tax payers money on illegals AND their *anchor babies*. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 10:02:14 PM |
In the last three years the nation's voters as a whole, and California's in particular have resoundingly rejected the Republican Party's message. Well, that must be why we have a republican governor...
Oh, and last night's election results might contradict that statement. The truly amusing thing here, is how the Democrats painted the election returns... I heard some bimbo on the news saying, "Californians are clearly telling us they want us to make these kinds of decisions!"
Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Just sayin'.
I have no affection for either party, being a dyed in the wool, long time Libertarian. When the economy was booming and Republicans were in the top spots (Wilson, Deukmajian), we had a surplus. We blew that on whatever.
The problem is, that the entire economy is down... part of the state tax revenue comes from the business in the state. When business is down, so is that income. Regulating businesses out of the state, or making taxes high enough so they want to leave... is not helping the situation at all.
The state government does not seem to understand what most private citizens realize... when less money comes in, it's time to look at where you can cut costs to keep the household running. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 10:19:54 PM | It's only because of a false interpretation of the 14th Amendment that we have to educate the children illegal alien mothers give birth to in the U.S. That may be the single biggest financial burden on this state, and Congress should have changed the law--or tried to--a long time ago.
Expensive housing and excessive regulation also tend to make it more expensive to do business in California. When firms go to other states, our tax base shrinks. There's been a lot of economic research--and I've studied it--which suggests both problems are aggravated by having the most restrictive environmental laws in the U.S.
We could also use a governor and legislature with the guts to resist constant pay raises for public employees. We have the very opposite situation now. And I think more than a few of our legislators are, to some extent, corrupt--hack politicians of the lowest kind.
That's for starters. Funny that things seemed to work pretty well in California when Ronald Reagan was governor. And things weren't too bad under George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson, either. | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 10:31:21 PM |
So what, specifically, would you slash from government costs?
I like the idea of cutting out all but one language from dmv materials too. 
(that was a good one, high five...)
After all, everyone in this country knows or can find someone who speaks English. And laying off of the PSAs will work, along with ridding our schools and doctor's offices of all that, "you are teen so here are your sexual options and the pictures of all of the diseases you can get because you have no control over your body" literature. Surely that's a bit of a waste too... | |
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| The California Collapse
Posted: 5/20/2009 10:32:19 PM | Okay, Matchlight! Finally a concrete proposal from the right. Freeze pay (and entitlements too?) for State employees. I'm not sure what that would save in our hypothetical right wing state budget, but surely something. This could have a chilling effect on the aspirations of current state employees and could create difficulties in bringing talented people into government, but that's just a cost of fiscal conservatism, yes?
So, what else? Momi, I'm abjuring my "denial" here. I'm looking for concrete answers to how the right wing proposes to "fix" California's budget crisis.
Match, I've already stipulated in my hypothetical that you on the right now have an Executive and Legislature with guts. What do you propose that they do beyond freezing salaries? Is that all it will take to solve California's debt crisis?
You mention that some of our current legislators are corrupt hacks. But the hypothetical stipulates that the legislature will be controlled by the "pure of heart" from the political right. So, are there any more concrete proposals? Where do we slash? What programs do we cut? Who pays for highway maintenance, if not the state with revenues from the DMV? Again, I'm really curious to hear real proposals. | |
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