|
|
|
|
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 10:10:41 AM | | I am not on nor have I ever been on antidepressants I am just a psychology buff. I have noticed though that more and more psychology is turning to antidepressants to help or manage a patients problems. This is no doubt largely due to the pharmaceutical industry and how powerful that industry has become in America. The first AD'S were MAOI's developed in the 1950s which are almost never prescribed today because of the intensity of side effects. Tricycleics were next and focused on all three of the brain chemicals involving mood seratonin neoepineehrine and dopamine. However a newer batch of AD's the SSRI(selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor) has hit the market which focuses only on seratonin levels. The pharmaceutical companies that develop these meds have admitted that they are not 100% sure exactly how these meds work in relation to the brain. Therefore what kind of negative effects could a person experience from long term use? Are these meds really safe for use in just the short term? And is it bothersome that large corporations are messing with the chemicals that are response able for mood in the brain without understanding fully all the interactions of there medication with the brain? And the ultimate question are AD's even effective at all in both the short term and long term curing or lessing of depression? Any thoughts feedback or opinions on this subject are appreciated. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 10:16:57 AM | I used to be on anti-depressants. I think that some drugs really do help. The real problem I think is misdiagnosis or people that think they have a Chemical Imbalance when they really don't. Not to mention Drug companies pushing their drugs onto your local M.D. and on Day-time television.
My 2 cents. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 10:56:20 AM | Have a "happy day"! Be IN a happy daze!
My latest jingle for a major drug company, bringing a new happy pill to your pharmacy soon!
 | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 11:04:12 AM | I assume that some people need it for a chemical imbalance- although, I agree, it seems the easier answer is to throw drugs at the problem for alot of people
Still, if they think they need it, its better they're taking anti-depressants than them hurting themselves..... | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 11:19:12 AM | Well...when I lost my fiancee, I had MANY people suggest I "get something". Something to help me sleep, something to make me stop crying...I truly think it was because they didn't want to see me like that, although the romantic in me wants to believe that it was because they cared. In my grief group, many people there insisted I NEEDED pills, mostly, I think, because they were on them.
What I found in that particular situation, for me, was that allowing myself to feel what I felt, and to deal with those feelings, and painful and paralyzing as they were, enabled me to get through them, and my grief. I also noticed that in my grief group, people taking those pills drugged away their feelings - and ended up mired for years in unresolved issues.
As for those with organic, and not situational issues...I believe that the doctors are truly trying to help. But the drug companies - advertising away on daytime TV...
The US has become a nation that believes that nothing should ever hurt - mentally, emotionally or physically. That's just silly. Some things naturally do, and are supposed to, cause pain. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 4:25:40 PM | I think people should never ever take them even if they have a chemical imbalance someone should force them to excercise and do other things which release endorphins
notice how most people who are depressed are the non active types because our bodies like to move and will give us good chemicals if we move and do things.
While I know it can be hard to get up and do any thing that is why I said force them to do it. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 4:32:06 PM | "And is it bothersome that large corporations are messing with the chemicals that are response able for mood in the brain without understanding fully all the interactions of there medication with the brain?"
You could say it is bothersome that watchdog groups don't care to understand the interactions of any medication and pass the drugs along as OK for consumption. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 5:40:38 PM | Quite simply
how did we survive the last 20 000 years and more without them ?
And we think times are harsh now ?
Look at history and what we came through - we made it without getting all down and sorry for oursleves.
The world of MTV and huge corporate media now dictates that if your not running your own business or doing your 10th movie or your 2nd album by the time your 21
Your a loooooooser baaaaby why dont you kill me ;)
This planet is still a marvel of itself. The simplest things around it are astonishing. The lives of the pettiest insect to the glory of the human you are.
Education is enlightenment - throw away the pills - read some great books - and look again at how amazing our world is.
Or - pop the pills your told to pop!
Making you no more and no less obedient than a dog!
Yet dogs are simply happy to be as they are and enjoy the simplest of things from chasing their own tails to smelling something tasty!
Do these drugs make us as happy as a simple dog? Or as obedient?
READ! Libraries are diminishing slowly - READ! and discover get off this web said the spider
;) | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/4/2009 5:51:01 PM | >>>While I know it can be hard to get up and do any thing that is why I said force them to do it.
Wow.....slavery.....I can't imagine why they would be depressed after that.... | |
|
| |
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 2:14:25 AM | @yna6:
Anti-depressants may be many things, but "happy pills" ain't one of them.
@damienevil:
I think people should never ever take them even if they have a chemical imbalance someone should force them to excercise and do other things which release endorphins
I think that people who run out of gas should never get another tankful but just check their tire pressure instead.
Having more endorphines running around your system will do you exactly zero good unless not enough endorphines is your problem - which isn't depression.
notice how most people who are depressed are the non active types because our bodies like to move and will give us good chemicals if we move and do things.
One of the most common causes of depression is insufficient seretonin. But seretonin is, generally speaking, only manufactured by the body when it's at rest. That's why depressed people are so lethargic, and sleep as much as they do.
While I know it can be hard to get up and do any thing that is why I said force them to do it.
Big difference between being lazy/tired, and being depressed.
@Chronomancer:
You could say it is bothersome that watchdog groups don't care to understand the interactions of any medication and pass the drugs along as OK for consumption.
There is a big difference between not caring, and doing as best you can, with what we know, when we are only scratching the surface of the biochemistry of the brain. As we learn more, we will be able to make more effective drugs, that have less side effects - as has already been happening over the course of the last 50 years or so.
@karma295:
how did we survive the last 20 000 years and more without them ?
SOME of us did. The ones with the problems wouldn't have made it. It's part of natural selection.
Education is enlightenment - throw away the pills - read some great books - and look again at how amazing our world is.
It's hard to read a book - good, great, or downright horrible - when you don't even have the energy to get up and go to the bathroom without help.
Or - pop the pills your told to pop!
Making you no more and no less obedient than a dog!
I hope the hell you never get diabeties. I don't think I could handle the mental image of you licking your balls while refusing to take your insulin. On the plus side, I wouldn't have that image for long - you'd go into a diabetic coma and die. But at least you wouldn't have to worry about your friends tea-bagging your corpse - you'd already be doing that yourself.
Come ON, people. When your car needs gas, you get it gas. When it needs a new battery, you get it a new battery. When it needs an oil change, you get it an oil change.
When you need vitamins, you take vitamins. When you need calcium, you drink milk. When you need protein, you eat meat or peanut butter.
The brain is no different than any other part of the body. There are things it needs to work properly - and if your body isn't manufacturing what it needs, you give it what it needs.
Why is that so difficult for so many people to understand? | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 4:35:08 AM | People who don't actually need anti-depressants tend to come down staunchly either for or against them. This is highly unfortunate because it opens the door for the conspiracy theory nuts who figure all big companies have some evil plot to get us all hooked on drugs.
People who actually need these drugs don't question their value. For them it's obvious : Either take the drugs and feel normal or don't take the drugs and stay miserable. People can have any number of reasons for choosing to take these medications or not but there's no question that the drugs work. My understanding of the SSRI class of anti-depressants is that many of them have remarkable anxiety combatting properties.
People who are simply going through a 'down time' are not supposed to be candidates for these drugs. For one thing , the drugs take up to six weeks to be fully effective anyway. For another thing , these drugs are supposed to be helping people who have a chemical imbalance that can't simply be cured with an upbeat song and a game of Twister. For some people the notion that somebody can actually have a chemical imbalance that will affect their mood is ridiculous. These same people don't make the same statement about diabetes so there ya go. Some folks simply don't understand because they haven't experienced the true wrath of a neuro-chemical imbalance. Others , who shouldn't have been taking the drugs in the first place , are often quick to dismiss them all as useless based on their own experience. Naturally : It's not really any different than if somebody with a perfectly good heart was prescribed glycerine pills.
Probably the most infuriating thing about people who think that a sufferer can simply "think" their way out of chemical depression is how certain they are of this stupid notion despite the fact that no such idiotic advice would be offered to the diabetic , the cancer patient , or the leper. It can't be "thought" out of any more than a person can "think" their way out of blindness. The worst is when these morons tell others that if only they'd read a little more from "alternative" sources (read : idiot guru author of the week) they'd feel better. I want to see this advice offered to the poor souls with MS or Cerebral Palsy. Might as well. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 5:35:32 AM |
Therefore what kind of negative effects could a person experience from long term use? Are these meds really safe for use in just the short term?
You are asking for a simpleminded answer to something without even stating what such vague concepts like ``negative effects'' and ``safe.'' mean. A more obvious analogy would be addictive pain killers like opiates. If someone is going to die in six months, is becoming addicted to a drug that improves that person's quality of life for that time a negative effect? Now you should see the question you're asking has an answer that depends a great deal on individual circumstances. What you should be asking is whether people are entitled to ALL of the information about what medicines they take, although given that most people don't vother to read the information that's already available, that question is probably academic. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 7:47:50 AM | Probably the most infuriating thing about people who think that a sufferer can simply "think" their way out of chemical depression is how certain they are of this stupid notion Since you're a fan of calling people idiots, right back at you.
There is a relationship between thoughts and moods, which is partly based in the chemical processes of the brain, and it works both ways in that while variations on chemicals affect mood, so do variations in mood affect the chemical processes. The neurological processes which have a chemical component happen as the interface between what we consider to be body and mind. Drugs affect thoughts. Thinking affects brain chemistry. It's not stupid at all to recognize that cognitive therapy is effective, when it is. What is stupid is to simplistically regard depression as being either a chemical or an idea problem, and then to get your panties in a knot about it.
The difference between depression and cancer or blindness, for example, is that depression manifests as certain kinds of thoughts. It is an illness of the mind as well as of the brain. Even when drugs help, so do thoughts, and even when drugs don't, thoughts still can, and sometimes the thoughts are all that are needed for the brain to correct itself.
That cognitive and drug therapies are effective to varying degrees is known, but the exact mechanisms underlying depression are not yet known. It's still a lot of try-and-see. Because it is still mysterious, be careful about knowing all about it and denouncing those whose ideas differ from yours. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 8:00:54 AM |
Therefore what kind of negative effects could a person experience from long term use?
The side effects are quite well known for most SSRI's now, and they have been on the market long enough for reasonable assesment of thier long term effects.
In the long term, it has been shown that people will actually become dependent on them, naturally producing less ceratonin the longer they are on them. This effect reverses when they are stoped. This is why they are only recomended for short term use, of up to 6 months, two years at most before taking the patient of them. Fortunatelly, the majority of depresions are reactive and so last less than six months, chronic depresion is actually very rare.
Are these meds really safe for use in just the short term?
Yes.
Most people suffer little to no side effects and the antidepresants help to stabalise thier mood for long enough for them to attend to the issues in thier life that are causing the depresion.
It is relativly rare to suffer serious side effects andthey help to prevent a very serious threat to your health. In britain, you are ten times more likley to kill yourself than to be murdered by someone else. It is a very serious issue and antidepresants save lives.
And is it bothersome that large corporations are messing with the chemicals that are response able for mood in the brain without understanding fully all the interactions of there medication with the brain?
Nope.
There are thousands of drugs where the specifics of the interaction are unknown. The fact is that we know how they work, just not the precises process, and even if we did not know how they work, we know that they do work and that they have minor side effects.
And the ultimate question are AD's even effective at all in both the short term and long term curing or lessing of depression?
Antidepresants are not a cure.
Let me repeat that.
Antidepresants are not a cure.
Depresion can only be cured by attending to the root cause of the depresion. Antidepresants buy you time to do that.
Think of it like putting your brain on hold. Antidepresants stabilies mood, so that the patient has the time to get the treatment neaded to attend to the issues that have caused the depresion. Without the antideprersants, mood can flutuate wildly and dip to a point where self harm and suicide are seen as the only way to relive the mental pain.
I should probably take some time to explain a little about the difrent types of depresion and how they can be treated.
The most comon form of depresion is reactive. Its estimated that anywhere between one and two thirds of the population will suffer from this form of depresion at some point in thier life. Reactive depresion is as its name sugests, a reaction to extream situations in the patients life, a divorce, loss of a loved one, becoming unemployed, ect. Reactive depresion is often short term and can often be easily resolved by counciling. This form of depresion reacts very well to antidepresants, as it is short term and ussualy simple to resolve.
Post natal depresion also falls under the reactive depresion blanket, and is very succefully treated with SSRI's.
Season, Affective disorder is another form of reactive depresion that can be treated with Antidepresants that work on the melatonin production and uptake.
Next you have the chronic depresions. These are a range of illnesses that need to be broken down further into sub groups.
Major Depression:
Major depression is probably one of the most common forms of chronic depression.
Atypical Depression:
Atypical depression is a variation of depression that is slightly different from major depression. The sufferer is sometimes able to experience happiness and moments of elation.
Psychotic Depression:
Sufferers of psychotic depression begin to hear and see imaginary things - - sounds, voices and visuals that do not exist.
Manic Depression:
Manic depression can be defined as an emotional disorder characterized by changing mood shifts from depression to mania which can sometimes be quite rapid. Dysthymia:
Many people just walk around seeming depressed - - simply sad, blue or melancholic. They have been this way all of their lives. This is dysthymia - - a condition that people are not even aware of but just live with daily. They go through life feeling unimportant, dissatisfied, frightened and simply don't enjoy their lives. Medication is beneficial for this type of depression.
Each of these can again be broken down into difrent types of disorder.
For example, with manic depresion, you have:
Bi-polar disorder.
Hypermania.
Borderline personality disorder.
And many more.
The treatment for any indavidual type of depresion can be very specific, but the general rule is that drugs are stop-gap measure untill an effctive therapy has been found. Of course there are exceptions to this such as bi-polar disorder, where drugs make the patient a normal and functioning member of society, but the instant they stop taking them, they become violent and paranoid, suffering from extream and terifing halucinations.
And now for the story about personal experiances.
I have a female friend who suffers from Borderline personailty disorder.
She has attempted suicide many times (and no it was not a cry for attention, drinking a bottle of anti-freeze, taking 6 packets of paracetemol, locking yourself in your room when no one is home and not telling anyone is not a cry for attention) and has no self confidence at all, in fact she is full of self loathing.
When she is on her medication, she can just about manage by herself. But when she is not on her medication, she is completely self destructive, she once took a hacksaw to her own arm. she has been sectioned five times in the past year and hospitalised twice that.
Even when she is on the medication, she suffers from paranoia, and can rarely leave the house. She also suffers from halucinations, that worsen when she stops taking her medication, to the point that she litterally can not sleep for days on end, from fear of her nightmares.
Her condition is a result of some imbalance in her brain chemistry and untill a way is found to redress the balance, she will continue to suffer. The only posotive thing that can be said for her at the moment, is that the drugs help to ease her pain, without them she would most definately be dead by now. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 9:16:31 AM | | It is no measure of health to be well adjusted in a profoundly sick soiciety. Many depressions are really spiritual crisises that, if properly handled, can lead to new and vastly richer perspectives on life. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 2:42:04 PM | to msg 9 we force people to get up every day and do things they dont want any way so why not do it for their health
Also to msg 11 its not serotonin its dopamine and endorphins which cause people to be happy and they get this from exercise
well dopamine certainly plays a part in the pleasurable factors associated with exercise and other physical activity, but it is not the main "reward" our brain offers after physical exertion. dopamine is associated with feelings of excitement and anticipation, and even danger for some people, skydiving would induce the release of dopamine into the synapse. there is no specific "quantity" of dopamine that is released, but the number of dopaminergic messengers and available synapses increases dramatically after physical/sexual stimulation or exciting sports. continuous excitation of these chemicals and pathways (by natural means) actually changes the physical makeup of the brain over time to allow more dopamine to be present in and outside of the synapse. sports like running, walking and kayaking have a small effect on dopamine, but the continuous physical exertion (to the point of sweating, and for at least 30 minutes) releases endorphins into your blood, causing a feeling of well being and physical wellness. dopamine=excitement and immediate pleasure, endorphins=balance with some euphoria. WARNING both of these chemicals are easily manipulated by drugs such as cocaine (dopamine active) or heroin and painkillers (endorphin producing). these artificial "highs" change the physical structure of the brain, just as exercise does, but in a very negative way. of course, this is due to prolonged use and abuse. anyway, keep exercising and doing fun things, you'll be sure to stay happy. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 5:17:57 PM | ^^^^
I agree that 'boot' camp, suited to the temperment of the participant (from Yoga to jungle fighting I guess...) is an excellent cure for depression. It should be prescribed by psychiatrists. I don't think that we should force people to do it, well not if we want to preserve our own liberties... but there could be incentives because depressed people cost the system a lot of ca$h. Probably two months of intensive training, followed by daily hour upkeep would be enough to snap a sizeable portion of the population out of many forms of depression.
I believe that a lot of depressions happen because by being segregated into smaller and smaller units, from tribes to clans to extended families, to nuclear families, to monoparental families a child is exposed to fewer models of behaviour and are ill equiped to cope with reality as it presents itself.
Simple tasks such as feeding oneself and communicating effeciently and accurately are often missed in a situation with fewer 'villagers' knowing, caring for, and most importantly teaching (by observation) about the world. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 10:14:48 PM | @xzanthius:
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted in a profoundly sick soiciety. Many depressions are really spiritual crisises that, if properly handled, can lead to new and vastly richer perspectives on life.
Some spirits are apparently brain-sucking, neurochemical-eating spirits
@Damienevil:
Also to msg 11 its not serotonin its dopamine and endorphins which cause people to be happy and they get this from exercise
I'm aware of that - but we're talking about depression, who's major cause is a lack of, or inability to use, seretonin.
It's not a zero-sum game - you can't make up for a lack of serotonin with a surfeit of dopamine or endorphines.
anyway, keep exercising and doing fun things, you'll be sure to stay happy.
Wrong, on every level. Dopamine and endorphines are NOT a substitute for serotonin. They have different effects, and work in a different manner. One is not a substitute for another.
@xzanthius again:
Probably two months of intensive training, followed by daily hour upkeep would be enough to snap a sizeable portion of the population out of many forms of depression.
That's not the point. It helps for certain types of situational depression, yes - but if that's what you have, anti-depressants aren't indicated, and you wouldn't be on them anyway. And if you have the type of depression that requires anti-depressants, no amount of physical activity is going to help. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 10:36:43 PM | In my, only partially informed opinion, exercise, good food and some basic counselling would help for many cases of depression. There are unfortunately some however where for whatever reasons mood regulating mechanisms appear to be beyond self regulation and I agree antidepressants should be offered as options.
I feel however that medicine can only alieveate the symptoms, generally have nasty side effects, and are often habit forming. I do know one thing however, depression is not indicative of a prozac deficiency. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/5/2009 10:57:43 PM | | Anti-depressants are legalized mood altering substances. Chemical dependency is chemical dependency. Combine this with the idea that there is nothing wrong with a couple of glasses of wine here and there...and what do you have? | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/6/2009 12:10:34 AM | I know a lot of these medications do actually help people and far more people are on them than people realize. I don't think this is solely an indication of pharmaceuticals marketing strategies but more of an indication of the pressure we are putting on society.
- Companies have downsized and workloads have increased over the last decade.
- It is now extremely difficult to have one parent stay home while the other works so both spouses are under pressure that usually was only experienced by more impoverished families in previous generations.
- We have stepped away from our belief that high interest rates were criminal and we now have an army of indebted slaves working to pay off credit...for almost the rest of their lives.
-You are now getting "service charges" for things that were previously included in that service cost allowing the cost of living to be raised without the cost of product.
- Our food supply is littered with produced foods that have psychologically damaging affects on people.
-Physically, we are putting out imagery that puts a lot of pressure on people to be something very few people are in reality ...we are doing this to all generations, genders, and age brackets now. I have only seen this make people less active because they are putting too much pressure on themselves for immediate results. This is damaging their mental health.
So we have a group of people who are under a great deal of pressure at work, socially, and at home while eating bad diets and being fed negative messages. They feel they have no control over this because for the most part, many don't.
Of course many need pills. They would not be able to cope this long if they didn't have them. Pharmaceutical companies are meeting the need of keeping people moving and productive in this society we created. So yes, they are part of the problem but not the root cause of it. | |
|
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/6/2009 12:32:39 AM |
Anti-depressants are legalized mood altering substances. Chemical dependency is chemical dependency. Combine this with the idea that there is nothing wrong with a couple of glasses of wine here and there...and what do you have?
Every human being is chemically dependent, the price of having metabolic processes sustaining our life. | |
|
| |
| Thoughts and opinions on antidepressants
Posted: 6/6/2009 1:10:06 AM | Farceur ,
Okay , you're an idiot too then. If you think that the everybody with a case of depression can just sing a happy song and everything will be alright then you don't know the first thing about the illness.
Cognitive therapy is introduced as a means of preventing thought patterns that might trigger a case of depression. It's not a cure and it's also completely useless when depression is the result of a genetically inherent flaw in the neurochemical balance of somebody's brain. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
