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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 1:54:06 AM | I have always considered myself a middle of the road Democrat...
Though I'm a democrat, I've always been FOR the death penality. I always felt that if you had such ill regard for another persons life, then you dont deserve yours. Eye for an eye type of attitude.
BUT, just recently within the last week, I've changed my view.
Now, I've decided that nobody but God should put somebody to death. If God wants you dead, you'll die. Everything happens for a reason, and its Gods will. Not myself, a Judge, Jury, or anybody else should have the power to end a life. Only God should have that power.
Thoughts? | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:05:18 AM | Natural life in prison is cheaper than Death Penalty. If the person didn't do it, there's hope of possibly being absolved in the future.
If they did do it, they must live their life knowing and realizing their actions.
That being said, I would inflict the death penalty on anyone that gravely harmed my loved ones! | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:09:55 AM | I'm not exactly sure if Natural Life in prison is cheaper...
I completed my undergrad in the fine state of West Virginia... and at the time, I proposed a new bill to the State to help decrease prison costs.
At the time of my proposal, the State was spending roughly $38,000 a year on the average inmate. During the same timeframe, the average income for working West Virginians was $34,000.
By that, you could wonder if an inmate is getting better quality (IE, food, benefits, care, shelter) than those who are not incarcerated | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:20:27 AM | Well, I didn't do the research. But I know that they say that states spend a fortune to execute one person.
In all actuality, you COULD execute someone for about $0.25.
And I'm sure someone would donate the gun! | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:24:00 AM | Very True about the $.25 , lol
For me... my thoughts on the Death Penality are purely based on my respect for God. A jury should not be given the burdon of having to make the decision to end someones life. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:49:01 AM | If you are going to bring up God then doesnt it say in the bible .. We are to obey the laws of the land and "A eye for a eye" ? ...
By the way I am not for the death penality ... Killing to prove killing is wrong to me ... Also its too easy for a murder to be put to sleep and not have a long life of suffering like the family of the victum will have ...
AnglFlyn | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:56:37 AM |
Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Damned straight i do, and wish my state had it. There are only like maybe 14 (?) states that dont allow it. If someone takes an innocent life, were consciously aware of it, knew what they were doing, forensics and DNA screamed he is guilty, then he basically signed his own death warrent himself. Some of us do not believe in god, so yes, a jury of that persons peers should be able to sentence him. Let him rot for life in a cell? Are you kidding me?? Why should he be allowed 3 meals a day, hot showers, a tv, a computer, a gym, visitors (not to mention conjucal (sp) visits!), when the person he killed is lying dead in the ground to never again experience any of those things?
Yeah, it is more costly to try a death penalty case than a 'regular' case, but IMO, its money well spent and worth- every- cent. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:57:09 AM | I did bring God up, but I didnt say anything about The Bible.
However, the Bible does preach the law of an Eye for an Eye, but it does not say anything about a Life for a Life.
Not the Bible, Torah, Quran, or any other book of monotheism condones killing. Not in any form. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 3:22:00 AM | Conjugal visits are only allowed in, I think, one state (CA) and even then to a very limited set of inmates. I don't think maximum security qualifies ya.
I don't know of any states where inmates have access to computers with internet capabilities. Too much risk of illegal activities.
Most maximum security prisons only let an inmate out of his cell for one hour per day. Shower time may or may not be included in that hour.
So, they spend the rest of their lives, basically, in a 12 foot by 12 foot cube. Eating and drinking, sleeping, crapping, etc. Lots and lots and lots of time to think.
Not to mention that the inmates life is controlled. Told when to eat, what to eat. When to sleep and when you have to be up. What mail you can or can't send/receive. Someone is going to review your mail before you get it. So your envelopes are opened before you get them. The inmates contact with the outside world, is controlled.
I have friends that can't be alone or quiet for more than an hour. Put them in a room the size of a walk-in closet and leave them to their thoughts for an extended period of time?
LMFAO..........they'd go fricken insane! | |
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pla*ce
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Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 11 | |
| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 3:49:27 AM | how about the guy in toronto that sexually abuse and murdered a little girl not to long
ago, should he be spared of death or should he be taking to the gallotine
her family can even find her body ,
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Daughter+body+found+police+tell+Tori+Stafford+father/1646670/story.html | |
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Jim978
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Joined: 7/15/2008
Msg: 12 | |
| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 4:17:48 AM |
Now, I've decided that nobody but God should put somebody to death. If God wants you dead, you'll die. Everything happens for a reason, and its Gods will. Not myself, a Judge, Jury, or anybody else should have the power to end a life. Only God should have that power.
First of all, "God" has no place in civil law within a secular state.
But setting that nit aside for a moment, how do you know that God isn't acting through the state and that a death penalty sentence is the will of God? Everything happens for a reason right? What if God is acting through that judge and jury?
Now, that said, I DO believe the death penalty should be an option. IMO, however, it is reached for to often/quickly. When there are thousands of people on death row something is wrong. Personally, I don't think that more than a handful of cases in any given year would ever deserve it. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 5:27:44 AM | Ack. As a life long yellow dog Democrat and liberal, I have an inner struggle with the death penalty all the time. I believe there's a very limited place for it in our society. A while ago there was a man who abducted a 12 year old girl, repeatedly raped her for a week, then dug a hole, made her climb inside a plastic bag in the hole, then covered her with dirt, allowing her to die by being buried alive. I believe he was sentenced to death. I'd push the button to start his execution. More importantly, I'd want the family members of this precious little girl to have some say in his sentence, that would be true justice. Since his crime was eligible for the death penalty, and since he was convicted of the crime beyond the shadow of a doubt, then let the family decide whether he dies or spends the rest of his life in jail.
I would say, the vast majority of the time I am against the death penalty. For certain offenders, who are guilty beyond any reason, like caught red handed, I *might* be pro death penalty. Despite what I feel about the death penalty and certain criminals, in my heart I know it's wrong, the rest of me just wants revenge, that's not a part of myself I like.
When people argue cost of death penalty verses life in prison, I believe it's the appeals process (lawyers, court fees, investigations etc.) that makes the death penalty costly and comparative to life in prison. The actual execution doesn't cost much, it's what leads up to the final moment that makes the process costly. In my opinion that's a part of the process that can't be compromised. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 5:31:48 AM | @ cultured...
Out of curiosity - would you tell us what it was, exactly, that made you change your stance?
One poster brought up the idea that the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment. While the penalty *itself* may be cheaper, it's the years and years of appeals that add to the costs.
And, since it's already been brought up... assuming God wants someone dead, there's a chance that S/He is *directing* the prosecutors and courts to that end... if you believe that God influences our daily lives, you have to admit to the possibility.
The 'Eye for An Eye' argument is a little off-base. My own interpretation of that passage taught me that the severity of the punishment should never EXCEED that of the crime. In other words, it's a lesson in MERCY, not reciprocation.
Personally, I see two possible alternatives to straightforward executions...
First - indentured servitude. The guilty party is required to do work, but his ENTIRE income is used to support the families of his victims. He keeps ONLY enough to subsidize his 'personal upkeep' - food, prison maintenance, etc. NO luxuries like cable TV.
Second (last-resort) - if execution MUST be done, then let it be done in a hospital... so that his organs can be harvested for donation. That way, a condemned murderer can potentially SAVE more lives than they took. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 6:15:37 AM | Yes, I do support the death penalty. Especially in cases where the person was caught red handed. I think the appeals process is the problem and expense.
I don't believe that some people should ever have the opportunity to walk among us again. If they are not put to death, then there is always a chance of escape, or some parole board allowing them to come back out.
When they make a choice to commit a particularily heinous crime, knowing it is punishable by death, then they have made their choice.
If their mind is too deviant to acknowledge that they will get the death penalty, then they still have no place in society. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 8:08:39 AM | Im sorry for bringing up the bible OP ... Most ppl that bring up God go by the bible and believe in a eye for a eye also means if you kill then you should be killed ...
Earlier post ... What if God is acting through that judge and jury? ...
.............
That is a good point and it might be true ... However I hope not cause there are too many ppl being wrongly convicted of crimes ...
Posters talk of child molesters that killed ... I just dont think killing a person is going to help any cause the child is still gone ... Before ppl jump all over me about what I am saying ... I was molested for many years but nothing will change or take it back ... Yes the man that molested me really should be locked up so he dont do it again to another child but it still wont change what he did to me ... just like murdering a person wont change the fact that some one was murdered by that person ...
AnglFlyn | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 8:38:36 AM |
Now, I've decided that nobody but God should put somebody to death.
That's great--IF you believe in god or if your gods don't say, "Fry 'em."
Deciding on an issue such as the death penalty based on what one believes "god" wants is not logical or rational because of the many types of religious beliefs. Why should your ideas about god apply to anyone but yourself?
I did bring God up, but I didnt say anything about The Bible.
You didn't have to bring up the bible: it doesn't matter which religion you espouse, not everyone believes as you do.
Not the Bible, Torah, Quran, or any other book of monotheism condones killing. Not in any form.
Au contraire. Read the Hebrew Scriptures: they are full of Yahweh telling the Jews to go into the land of Canaan and to smite/kill the enemy. The Quran sanctions the killing of non Muslims.
And how religiouscentric of you! I am pagan, not monotheistic; I guess that means than my views don't count!
If someone commits a heinous crime and is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be guilty, that person should be put to death. With advances in forensics, DNA testing, etc., it is easier and easier to prove guilt beyond that shadow. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 9:21:44 AM | Cultured, the costs associated with the death penalty have nothing to do with the act of killing itself. It has to do with the legal costs, court costs, etc. that accumulate over years while the cost of housing an inmate is still also racking up.
To answer the question: No. I do not. I thought I might believe in it for a short while a few years ago when a teenager that I knew was murdered. But once my emotions were under control I realized that I just do not agree with state-sanctioned murder. Period. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 9:26:33 AM | | I agree whith with Gwen on this one, if the evidence is irrefutable. I think that depending on the prisoner a life sentence maybe crueler than death. I think that the death penalty should be used liberally. I don't believe it is a deterent and should just be the way we get rid of humans that don't want to be. I would include level three sex offenders and violent felons as well as murderers. Why sockpile these people when they are just a drain on the rest of us? the funds to keep the prisons could be used to provide education and other human services for the people that want to be humane. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 9:39:31 AM | I have mixed emotions on the death penalty.
On one hand ...
-it guarantees that the person will never reoffend,
-the money spent housing those who would qualify for the death penalty could be spent in much more productive ways,
-it can act as a deterrant for some people,
-if killers have no respect for human life, why should their lives be respected?
-and ... it would give a certain feeling of satisfaction (vengeance) for many people.
On the other hand ...
-prisons keep many people employed,
-for those wrongly convicted, they have a slight chance of proving their innocence,
-I question if "God" would approve
If I were certain that those who have committed the most horrendous crimes would face their judgement and rot in hell, then I would lean more towards NO for capital punishment.
My feelings about the death penalty kinda "waiver". When I am calm and rational, I can see the "wrongness" in it ... but, when I've just read/watched/heard about the horrors a victim suffered, I can sure understand the urge to "execute" the offender... | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:13:32 AM | | now wait a min here..........before all the self proclaimed "bible experts"...[no......i'm not one myself]...start saying theres nothing in the bible about exicutions.[as opposed to killing in war]......the bible most certainly DOES support capital punishment for several crimes....the method proscibed in the bible is stoneing to death......[no.it DOESNT mean provideing all the pot needed].......stoneing means that the entire community does the exicution by pelting the criminal with stones till hes dead.....the punishment is meeted out by the community as a whole........that way...no one person acted as the exicutioner | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:15:38 AM | I firmly support the use of the death penalty.
We have a rather lengthy appeals process here in the U.S.; many inmates live on death row for years before they are executed.
For those who 'get religion' while serving time, I'm happy. I still support the death penalty.
I don't believe that the death penalty necessarily deters anyone else from committing a murder, but it certainly ensures that that one person will not be committing any more. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:22:09 AM |
Deciding on an issue such as the death penalty based on what one believes "god" wants is not logical or rational because of the many types of religious beliefs. Why should your ideas about god apply to anyone but yourself?
The question is "do you believe in the death penalty." It is obviously logical and rational to include one's faith in the personal decision of what he or she believes in. No one suggested that his belief applies to you... he is not "deciding" on an issue, he is expressing an opinion. His personally held beliefs on the subject are not an attack on you... so why the hostility?
it doesn't matter which religion you espouse, not everyone believes as you do.
What, pray tell, would the point of the thread be if we all believed the same thing?
And how religiouscentric of you! I am pagan, not monotheistic; I guess that means than my views don't count! Darlin, your issues are showing. How about you just express your own view of the death penalty instead of feeding into the delusion that strangers' thoughts on the matter are a direct assault to your beliefs?
If someone commits a heinous crime and is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be guilty, that person should be put to death. With advances in forensics, DNA testing, etc., it is easier and easier to prove guilt beyond that shadow. FINALLY it's your OPINION. I think it is absolutely positively a bad idea. However, it's ok that we disagree. I'm certainly not offended that you hold a differing opinion (see here I'm modeling for you how to respectfully disagree.)
Again, to review: It's ok that you don't agree with me on this issue. You're absolutely entitled to be wrong. | |
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| Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:41:43 AM | Wow, great responses by everybody!!!
Let me touch on a couples replies.
First one to jump out at me. Somebody said "The Quran sanctions the killings of non muslims" I've read the Quran in its entirity, in English, and Arabic... God does not condone 'hate' killing in Islam.
With that aside...
Another poster made up the point that if our actions are from Gods Will, then the death penality would have been Gods doing. Thats a good point.
Another poster asked me... "What made me change my mind..."
Well, previously, my thoughts on the death penality were for the most part political based. First, I feel that prisons should not be for punishment, they should be for rehabilitation. The point of a prison is to help you cope with your issues, and prepare you to reenter society as a changed, and better man. With prisons overcrowding, and the cost of maintaining an inmate going up every year, the political part of me doesnt see the point in housing a criminal for a life sentense. Furthermore, I've always felt that if you have such ill regard for somebody elses life that you kill them, then you dont deserve your life.
Now, while I still feel a complete disgust for these terrible people, I dont feel that Man should be able to end another mans life. That too, is an instance of murder also. Justified by "law" or not, its still killing. I can say this... I would never stand in a Jury of a person being tried for the death penality. When I face God after my death on earth, I want my hands to be clean of any sin, especially something like the decision to kill another Man.
Another poster also said something to the effect of "I shouldnt bring up God because not everybody thinks the same as I do..." Very true, and I am well aware that I may have a unique view, but I also never inplied that you should think like me. I was just simply posing the question "Do you believe in the Death Penality?". However, all monotheism religons, Jewish, Christians, and Muslims all share the same core beliefs. With those 3 religons being the Big 3 of the world, I'm speaking to the vast majority of people with faith. With that said, if you do not believe in God at all, or have a different faith, then you would clearly disagree with my relationship with God. | |
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