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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 7:31:44 AM | I wonder sometimes if this so called "relationship" that we seek is simply a distraction from our lives and our purposes here. What do we gain from relationships that allow us to become better people? Do relationships truly bring out the best in us? When they end in divorce do we take responsibility for our part in it and move on our true path in life? I wonder what young children learn from watching us adults fumble in relationships.
Are relationships a distraction from our true purpose in life? | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 7:39:47 AM | It depends on what you see as your "purpose here" For lots of us, our purpose includes sharing the experience of it all with another person.
Likewise if your purpose is to be a hermit, then certainly, dating is a distraction.
But we are a social species. We exist in community, we thrive in social settings, we join all sorts of organizations including churches, business, clubs, POF, neighborhoods, and we keep track of family. Its nice to have other people around in our lives. Its nice to share a roof, meals, leisure time, and yes, a bed, with another person.
So no, I do not feel that dating is a distraction.
Canoist | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 8:09:55 AM | I believe it can distract people from bring productive, taking care of their business, doing what needs to be done...I feel they are more of a recreational thing, and shouldn't be prioritized before paying bills, food, work, things that you need to survive.
There are things we should take care of before searching for someone else, such as debt, self sufficiency, emotional balance, etc.
So, yes in some circumstances, they can be a major distraction. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 9:08:40 AM | What is your true purpose in life?
How sure are you?
Does that purpose involve relating in any way to the world around you or the people in it?
If not, what has your purpose got to do with being alive?
My partner says "Life is relationship in action." (I think it's a quote but I' not sure where from and he's not just here to ask).
I think the biggest distraction is not relating, it is all the other stuff -- status, power, ego, consumerism. My partner and I find that life is a distraction from relationship -- it can be hard to relate to each other when we both have a lot of life pressures on us (work, bills, health).
I think relationship is fundamental to my purpose in life and given that romantic relationship enables me in many ways to feel more alive and to typically have more energy to give, a romantic relationship in particular is beneficial rather than detrimental. An unfulfilling romantic relationship would have the opposite effect however, sapping my energy and leaving me with little to invest in relating positively to the world around me. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 9:32:44 AM | Our purpose in life is to continue and improve the species.
To procreate and pass on good genes, and provide a good environment for our offspring. To teach them well and prepare them for life so they can do the same.
We are animals after all.
Now, as for personal goals... that's another matter.
Be it a successful career, advancing science, writing a best seller, leaving words of wisdom that will last through the ages... that's up to the individual.
Everyone has something they seek. Some have grand plans... others just want to live a simple life with someone special.
Are relationships a distraction? Not at all. They're essential for continuing the species.
Of course, while we could just "mate" with someone healthy who will help make good children... we as humans (usually) seek more than that.
We want someone who truly captures our heart and soul. Someone who makes every moment something spectacular. Someone who will support us while we're down, and lean on us when they're in need. Someone who will help us learn and grow and be better people.
I think that relationships bring out the best in me. I'm a gentleman and romantic. I'm also very skilled at pleasures of the flesh. And always keep my lady satisfied, in every way.
I do all that I can to make her happy, and enjoy it as she does the same. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 12:26:09 PM |
An unfulfilling romantic relationship would have the opposite effect however, sapping my energy and leaving me with little to invest in relating positively to the world around me.
That is the crux of the matter rune3. When first in a relationship it is fulfilling to the point where what you have invested in it stops garnering returns. I suppose the key would be to notice when you are more in love with the idea of the relationship than the relationship itself.
I believe that some of us have the tools to be in a relationship while others need to gather these tools. I guess I am a gatherer. I just gathered one new tool. It's nice and shiny. Hopefully it will come in handy.
Thanks for your replies everyone. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 12:52:41 PM | Your "purpose" in life? Maybe your purpose in life to to have no purpose in life.
Your "purpose" in life is what you make your "purpose" in life. No one is going to hand it to you in an envelope. Certainly the thousands of people I have interviewed over the years in all fields, but especially human development and potential and relationships, would tell you to get out of your head into the game. Or else stand on the sidelines and comment. Which is also a nice safe way to keep away the "messy stuff".
What do we gain by being in relationships?
Ability to feel feelings, relate to others feelings, and grow in emotional intelligence.
Abilty to discover the true joy and passion in a relationship for discovering our complete selves, mind, body and spirit.
Abilty to grow in wisdom and compassion, to take on responsibility for our issues, our disfunction, our self centered obsession with being right and being free and being in control.
So much more that a life without true connected relationship is a life not lived.
Here's lies Mz Jane Doe, she discovered her purpose, and nobody gave a damn.
What was the biggest regret of the richest man in the world? No real relationship, of course !
Of course there will be no children to impress one way or the other without a little "committment", ya know? I'm just sayin.......................... | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 12:53:10 PM | hehehe...you gather a "tool"...hopefully the rest of us gathers someone we like!
Sometimes the "relationship" brings with it some aid that you can use to further your own goals or those who you are partnered with.
Depends on what you need/want and expect out of someone. Someitmes others bring the best out in you. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 1:29:28 PM | Life is relationship in action. What more could one need out of life? This doesn't mean we search for this it means that the absence of relationship leads to an endless search for something to replace it. Once in this frame of mind we have lost the ability to truly relate. Equally if we are without and crave relationship we are only relating to the idea of relationship and not truly relating to the individuals we are in relationship with. it is a bit of a conundrum. Like not seeing the forest for the trees.
We end up relating to people to get something out of it, a return on investment so to say. This isn't relating it is manipulating those we are with for our own gain. There is a limitless pool of joy to be experienced through truly relating to another in an intimate relationship however many people will never go beyond the beginnings of such intimacy because they have upper limits of happiness programed in them. What starts out as bliss is quickly extinguished because of conflicting beliefs of happiness and acquisition of status and monitory gain.
Only through truly relating to another person do we find someone who is truly compatible with us, and through completely letting go of the illusions of self and becoming intimate without boundaries do we find what our true purpose of living to be. It is difficult to balance life's demands and true passion for another person. We cannot abandon life as we know it without consequences that make relating difficult and we cannot completely abandon ourselves to relating without life's demands piling up. Finding that balance is important. We suffer greatly not knowing how to balance our mind and our heart but the pursuit is what life is all about. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 4:25:45 PM | What your true purpose is depends on which mythology you use. The reason you are here is simply because your parents had sex and you haven't died yet. You're what happens in between your birth and death. A part of that is whatever thoughts you tell yourself explaining yourself. It's available to decide on a purpose that is at odds with your relationship. You can decide no relationship will be possible because one would distract you from your purpose. You can decide that your purpose is to have a relationship. It's all voluntary, with many options, to do as you please. When you want a purpose and a relationship you should probably pick a purpose that doesn't preclude relationships, and have relationships that don't get in the way of your purpose. Unless your purpose is to create conflict in relationships, or use relationships to defeat your purpose. Then it would be important to use one against the other.
My idea of a relationship is too simple for real life. It consists entirely of enjoying being together. You like to be together, so you are. Compare this to a typical ideal of a romantic relationship and you'll notice it is much smaller and far less complicated. The only requirements for it are geography and affection; be in the same place, get along.
My idea of purpose is as basic: Enjoy life. I find that most of the routine things in life have guidance provided for in the forms of sensation we know as pains and pleasures. That guidance works good for what to sleep on (a comfy bed, not a pile of rocks), how fast to eat ice cream (slow so it melts, not fast so you get brain freeze), and whether to pet a bunny or a porcupine, as examples. The same principle applies to emotions, wanting what feels good and not what feels bad. You can usually resolve pretty much anything into a choice between what is good for you, and others, and what is bad for you, and others.
Being simple minded like this works great to have a relationship that supports a purpose, while having a purpose that supports a relationship. Well, it works great with someone who is as simple minded. That's the catch. There are so many distractions making life very complicated, that finding someone whose outlook is uncluttered can be a long wait.
In young adulthood when people first form their views, they look for agreement, affirmation, collaboration, a partner in crime, someone to share their dreams, realize their potential, raise the children as they see fit, etc. It's about wanting the same things looking ahead.
In middle age after that reproduction chore is done, and if the relationship blew up or fizzled out, and it turned out that reproduction wasn't quite enough of a purpose, or as a purpose, served it's purpose, then there can be a second try at forming or revising your views. What happened?! Now what!? What is there left to do? Where the hell are the keys to my life?
Then, after that passes, you can realize that whatever life was going to be, it already happened, and so now, instead of being overly concerned with galactic themes of great importance, or puzzling over the mysteries of love, you can, if you like, have a cup of hot chocolate, listen to some music, and wonder what kind of trouble you would enjoy making in the world, maybe with someone as mischievous as yourself. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 6:29:40 PM |
I wonder sometimes if this so called "relationship" that we seek is simply a distraction from our lives and our purposes here. What do we gain from relationships that allow us to become better people? Do relationships truly bring out the best in us? When they end in divorce do we take responsibility for our part in it and move on our true path in life? I wonder what young children learn from watching us adults fumble in relationships.
Are relationships a distraction from our true purpose in life?
Great topic!
I've always believed that relationships of any sort are truly a reflection of our own self...The times that i've learned the most about who I am, was during a relationship...relationships bring out your most inner fears, joys, etc etc...without another they remain hidden...so yeah OP, to answer your question, relationships can be a distraction for those that don't wish to learn about themselves.... | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 6:32:48 PM | | Relationships are a complete distraction from everything I want to do. I just avoid them altogether. The whole point of life is to have fun and spend money on yourself, so absolutely no way would I have a LTR. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 6:36:05 PM | do a google search on "margaret wheatley", a biologist and organizational theorist who does a lot of out of the box thinking and is working on theories of "stablization and change" and an evolving viewpoint of life and it's meaning. she feels relationships are the essential ingredients to most of what we call "life".
excerpt:
"Relationships: The Basic Building Blocks of Life
©Margaret Wheatley 2006
The scientific search for the basic building blocks of life has revealed a startling fact: there are none. The deeper that physicists peer into the nature of reality, the only thing they find is relationships. Even sub-atomic particles do not exist alone. One physicist described neutrons, electrons, etc. as “. . .a set of relationships that reach outward to other things.” Although physicists still name them as separate, these particles aren’t ever visible until they’re in relationship with other particles. Everything in the Universe is composed of these “bundles of potentiality” that only manifest their potential in relationship."
i've been following her work for many years. saw her presentation of biological phenomena vis a vis organizational phenomena--eg. she pricked a colony of cells that put them into chaos on a slide, then slowly order returned. then she showed the ravages of floods, wars, power failures, etc. and showed the order similarly arising out of chaos. all things transitioned over time, due to the relationships put together by participating entities. some of those were human.
chaos is a distraction AND a learning experience. time to find the order in things to accomplish growth and evolution!
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/12/2009 8:43:39 PM | I refer to my purpose as self-actualization. Call me ambitious. I believe, like farceur, that relationships are easy. However, sometimes when you are 18 months down the road and you have been having your "easy" time of it...somehow you lost a thread or you compromised a tad too much or you ignored a red flag. That would be me. Then you realize that in order to take the relationship one day further you would start being someone else than who you essentially are. How could I have gotten so distracted? That is what I ask myself. Doh!
I like the response that says that relationships are a distraction for those who do not want to work on themselves. I like that and I am thinking about it. I will now google Margaret Wheatley. Thanks again.
Oh, and Brooklynrebel, good one! LOL. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/13/2009 10:08:59 PM |
I refer to my purpose as self-actualization. Perhaps I am missing the point here, but having checked the definitions I find that Goldstein used the term to define a motive whilst Maslow used it to indicate a level of development. I always thought of self-actualisation as being a level of development and to me it seems strange that this could wholly define a purpose. Why do you want to reach this stage of development: to what end? When you reach this level of development, will you consider your purpose in life to be fulfilled? It sounds rather as if the young gardener had said that his purpose in being a gardener was to learn to be the best possible gardener that he could. It doesn't seem like 'purpose' because there is no effect outside of his own head.
I believe, like farceur, that relationships are easy. However, sometimes when you are 18 months down the road and you have been having your "easy" time of it...somehow you lost a thread or you compromised a tad too much or you ignored a red flag. That would be me. Then you realize that in order to take the relationship one day further you would start being someone else than who you essentially are. A relationship involves dynamic and the dynamic of a close relationship can dominate your life; it will certainly affect your way of being in the world because it defines the world you are in. You will behave differently depending on the influences around you, whether these are the influences of romantic relationship, work, health... Who you are is always there, it is just what you are able to express that is shaped by the space you are in. You are where you are because of the way you responded to what the world offered you. If you feel that you are betraying yourself, then look for the reason why you did this and you will find that there was a larger reason, to which you were faithful; this might be a perception, a fear or an ideal/dream.
I like the response that says that relationships are a distraction for those who do not want to work on themselves. To some exten,t I think relationships that people use as entertainment can be a way to hide from yourself. However, there are aspects of yourself that you cannot work on in isolation; aspects that only exist in relation to others. Who you are inside your head matters deeply to you, but your entire impact upon the world is defined by your relationship to the objects and people in it. In maths, a way of defining something can be to look at its interactions with other things, rather than to look at the object or parts of the object itself and I often wonder how true this might be in life too. I have certainly found that much of what I don't consciously express does have an impact. So what is it worth, to "work on yourself" inside a bubble? What you are able to express in the world, in your life, does not depend on who you can be in the perfect environment, without any pressures or influences -- it depends on your responses to these things. And sometimes your responses should be different from the behaviour you might choose if there was no pressure upon you. We are supposed to be human and so wouldn't it seem less-than-human to fail to be influenced by pressure?
Being in a relationship is endlessly challenging regarding growth and also can be supportive of growth too. Of course the direction of your growth is affected too but are you any the less yourself for being one in a partnership rather than one alone - I think not. In my opinion, being alone is much easier, but offers much less opportunity for personal growth.
Just some thoughts, not particularly well organised (sorry). | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/13/2009 11:04:30 PM | I think Farceur has a wonderful way of expressing himself, and I like how he wants to simplify existence in a way as to evoke thought, yet not make your brain melt in the process.
Of course relationships are a distraction, but the most important distinction (imho) to be made of the distraction, is if it is pleasurable or painful. If it is painful, can you derive a pleasure from it? (Meaning through personal growth or creating a change towards the positive?)
Maybe another distinction to be made is to the value YOU place on a relationship. Input should be somewhat on par with output. Balance.
This topic is of major interest to me because of some recent personal experience (of which no details will be shared out of respect to the other party involved). Suffice it to say that the value of the distraction should be agreed upon going in, because if the scales get out of balance, the distraction may turn to heartache. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/13/2009 11:32:19 PM |
Are relationships a distraction from our true purpose in life?
I know a number of people who use "relationships" as a way to avoid dealing with their own stuff. Usually the relationships they choose are highly dysfunctional and emotionally chaotic, giving them little time to focus on what most would consider more important-- career, hobbies, family, religion, inner development, etc. The drama is a huge distraction and while they spend their lives enmeshed in trying to figure out/live with/placate the other person, they never have to admit (and deal with) their own shortcomings. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/14/2009 12:57:33 AM |
What do we gain from relationships that allow us to become better people?
There are huge assumptions here. Such as:
That it's possible for people TO become better people.
That there is a universal absolute to measure "better."
That being a person simply means transitional stages.
In a sense it also implies that each person is a unique species seeking symbiotic bonds with other people for some spiritual or hidden purpose.
Do relationships truly bring out the best in us?
Why can't they just be "opportunities for people to showcase their best."
Rather than a means to drag the best out of us as implied by the phrasing?
Why do you assume their is some hidden "best" in people, just waiting for a relationship to let it loose. Are you missing an "a" in best?
When they end in divorce do we take responsibility for our part in it and move on our true path in life?
Path crap is so annoying.
You are implying people have a single path in life.
You are implying that path is already trailblazed, or in existence in order to be a path, and people just follow along it, and deviations are the mistakes we make.
Do people take responsibility for their part in the dissolution of a relationship? Depends on the person, depends on the relationship.
I wonder what young children learn from watching us adults fumble in relationships.
How have all your relationships been? Guess what, you learned that primarily from your parents, with a bunch of influence via culture and secondary social groups thrown in.
Are relationships a distraction from our true purpose in life?
Good luck getting everyone to agree there is a true purpose to life, that there is only one, and what that purpose is.
Until those definitions are established and accepted there is absolutely no way to determine if there is any relationship between relationships and "true purpose."
(which is funny because it implies the possibility of a 'false purpose')
Or
It's impossible to deviate from a "true" purpose in life. No matter what we do we fulfill the "true" purpose. As "true" implies an absolute. Purpose implies a preordained "path," or previously determined goal.
So to be distracted from a "true" purpose would most likely really piss off the preordainer and setter of absolutes. Or simply end the universe. And as far as I can tell I'm still breathing.
I really can't see some cosmic entity sitting with the great book of our lives saying to itself "Dam, I really wish you hadn't been distracted. That's not why I created you and pre set your life buddy. If I'd of known you were going to do that, it would all be different. I'm telling your mother."
Or
Relationships lead to babies. Babies keep "people" going. How is leading to the basic survival of a species a distraction? | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/14/2009 2:03:50 AM | I want a distraction, if thats what they are calling it these days.
Distract from what? Life? Life is all about relationships.
It's the other stuff that is the distraction. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/14/2009 3:31:23 AM | I think self actualization has been blown out of proportion. I much prefer Rogers view of what seems to be the same thing. While Maslow puts self actualization at the top of a pyramid Rogers simply calls it becoming a person.
Carl Rogers summed up the importance of relationship and personal growth when he said "...In my early professionals years I was asking the question: How can I treat, or cure, or change this person? Now I would phrase the question in this way: How can I provide a relationship which this person may use for his own personal growth?"
He also seen that self actualization was something that could not be done on ones own. It was dependent on others. Which may seem confusing when first looked at. People try so hard to express themselves in spite of others instead of realizing just how interdependent we really are. So while some people feel that they loose themselves within a relationship the opposite is true. Sure some relationships don't on the surface seem like this is true but even if one finds themselves in a relationship where they have seemingly given up part of themselves the truth is that part of themselves is willing to overlook somethings to experience something they see as important. What is it that we crave so deeply that we are willing to compromise ourselves?
It is these questions that lead us to a deep understanding of ourselves that we could not of come to in isolation of others. We tend to look at others as less aware partners and that we deserve more but it is them who has brought us to a deeper understanding of ourselves if we were open to ask ourselves the hard questions that led us to relate to that person in the first place.
Self actualization according to Rogers is dependent on unconditional positive regard from others which oddly enough when things go wrong in a relationship is exactly what people look for from others. They tell their stories to others in hopes that they agree with them so they feel like they have grown from the experience when really it is a false sense of growth that will lead to a similar cycle happening again.
Relationship is like a spring board for personal growth. Sure you can learn things from classes, workshops etc... But these learned things will be hard to bring to the real world because you learned them in a bubble (out of context to the real relationships you have) You are where you are for a reason, trying to grow is like jumping into a jumbo jet and flying it without ever being exposed to such an experience before. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/14/2009 5:04:37 AM | "Perhaps I am missing the point here, but having checked the definitions I find that Goldstein used the term to define a motive whilst Maslow used it to indicate a level of development. I always thought of self-actualisation as being a level of development and to me it seems strange that this could wholly define a purpose. Why do you want to reach this stage of development: to what end? When you reach this level of development, will you consider your purpose in life to be fulfilled?"
To me relationships are obviously a form of mating and procreation but I also think it is a developmental stage, as well as a spiritual one. We each learn about ourselves and search for that perfect mate that will enhance our lives and therefore enhance our own sense of well being and completion. A relationship can change the way you perceive yourself and life and either knock you down a step on your spiritual ladder or help you climb up it depending on your outlook and your willingness to learn from each experience.
Most people find it hard to examine themselves in any situation and in the case of a bad relationship it is common to lay blame, see negative and forget that something good came of it. ie..a guy takes you for all you are worth, do you lie in the gutter and pan handle or do you pull yourself up get an even better job than you had before and secure your life so it never happens again making you that much better to read people and the self satisfaction of knowing they could not keep you down?
I do believe we choose our own paths in life, challenges and personal goals and that the people we meet are stepping stones in one way or another to achieving it. I think it is what you take from these that makes the real you. I also think that relationships are a part of nature and while mating is one of the more pleasurable aspects of life there are always dangers to be had in the wild LOL How you ban together to defeat these dangers is the question. Don't get me wrong, if a brick falls on your head every time you try to do something with your spouse then maybe you picked the wrong one..there should be more easy/enjoyable times than not. | |
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| Relationships a Distraction?
Posted: 6/15/2009 12:33:58 PM | Why do you want to reach this stage of development: to what end? When you reach this level of development, will you consider your purpose in life to be fulfilled?"
In a word, yes. Once reaching a level of development where nothing external can scare me and everything is possible I would say it would not matter whether or not I was in this world. I would be more energy than matter. Nothing would matter!
I read Rogers and Maslow and Goldstein and then I found Czsikscentmihalyi. He coined the term "flow." In his latest book that he presents as a psychology for the third millennium, he presents the idea of self-actualization as being the very minimum to contributing to the evolution of the human race. He describes the complex task as being the desirable one that combats boredom in all domains. It is the choice we make in life, the one where we always learn and grow from everything that we do.
It pertains to relationships only if we learn and grow from them and not get bored or stuck in the humdrum of existence. Sometimes we lull ourselves into a false sense of security for the sake of regular (or even intermittent) sex. That's when they can be nothing more than a distraction from what we had set out to do. | |
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