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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 3:09:13 AM | After reading countless profile and forum posts, I really need to ask...'Is it just me?' Am I somehow wrong? The last time I checked, most everyone - at least in North America - was and/or is subjct to about - at least - 12 plus years of studying the English language at a minimum. So why then, do most people come off as borderline literate retards?
Spelling? Ok, not eveyone was 'huked awn fawnix'. Granted we all misspell from time to time. There's a myriad of reasons to misspell. I understand many of them may be typos. Most are not.
Punctuation? Ok, sure. We may not all understand to where to utilize the comma, or ellipsis, or the semi-colon, but an A for effort, n'est pas?
Capitalization. Wow, do people stating things like 'so i saw the van gogh exhibit and it was off the hook' ever bother me.
Paragraphs. This more so than anthing else drives me insane. Reading profiles and/or posts where it's some giant blurb/run-on-senctence drives me up the wall. It's even better when people speak of the fact that they're college and/or university educated, and how smart they are and how much they appreciate "like-minded", educated people.
Really? Really???
So people with four years of higher education, supposedly trained in the art of critical thinking and analysis can't structure a single cohesive paragrpah complete with requisite spelling, puntcuation, and capitalization? And who says our 'profs' are underpaid and out touch.
I'm willing to forgive a lot. I'm not quite the grammar nazi of the ilk of the "Eats Shoots and Leaves" lady. I'll let participles dangle. I'll end sentences with prepositions - woo, I'm a rebel! However, the basics are important aren't they? Without language and the rulese therein we're little better than cavemen sitting around grunting at each other, trying to figure out what the other means. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 4:27:07 AM | Yes and no. I notice the decline in spelling and grammar (even though I tend to have some grammar issues myself) and hate it, but people hate others who nag. It's one thing to bring lack of spelling and such up when it's relevant, another entirely to bring it up just to be a smartass.
I'd suggest just sitting back, letting people be themselves, and relax knowing that you're one of a dying breed. Plus, spelling in this environment can be sexy (or so it's been said). Also, keep in mind, there's things like letter transpositions ('paragrpah', you did it yourself :P ) and full-blown errors. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 4:38:15 AM | | The butchering of the English language gets on my nerves. Textspeak has taken over and sometimes it seems like people are just plain lazy. i just dont no whats wrong with ppl | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 5:01:53 AM | My pet peeve is the abuse of the apostrophe. It is used to indicate possession or missing letters in contractions. It is not the glue that holds the letter s onto a plural word or onto a word that happens to end with the letter s. Example: I like flower's. My dog need's to go out.
I'm seeing this misuse appearing in professionally designed ad campaigns, particularly with its and it's. That makes me sad.
The other mistake that gets to me is that no one seems to know the difference between lose and loose anymore. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people who "want to loose weight."
But then again, "Eats Shoots and Leaves" is one of my favorite books.
PS: I spotted three typos in your post: Senctence, paragrpah, and rulese.  | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 5:49:08 AM |
So why then, do most people come off as borderline literate retards?
Hyperbole annoys me more than spelling errors.
Things that you don't like in other people's profiles work as pretty good filters. If you see textspeak, move on to another profile. No need to get all worked up about the people who communicate differently than you do.
My pet peeve is the abuse of the apostrophe. It is used to indicate possession or missing letters in contractions. It is not the glue that holds the letter s onto a plural word or onto a word that happens to end with the letter s. Example: I like flower's. My dog need's to go out.
I'm seeing this misuse appearing in professionally designed ad campaigns, particularly with its and it's. That makes me sad.
It's called the "grocer's apostrophe" and it's nothing new -- tomatoe's on sale today! | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 6:14:34 AM | It's so weird that in an age where everyone's typing to some extent, and there are like 15 different ways to spell and grammar correct something you're writing that no one bothers.
When I was a kid it was 10 times harder to get it right and beyond 5th grade most of us did pretty well. Then again I had a parent and older relatives on my azz who corrected me constantly.
I don't know if having too many options is causing people to be lazy about it? It seems like even people who can't spell or use decent grammar aren't interested in trying to figure out how to change it or use anything available to them to at least LOOK like they know what they're doing.
When I was young if I couldn't spell something, I'd look it up before I'd write it wrong publicly...I'd be horrified anyone else knew I couldn't spell it. Not so today. I think it's the interest in making an impression that's gone by the wayside with the changing times. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 6:43:11 AM | In my 20+ years online, I've had to learn to accept the fact that not everyone cares how they present themselves to the world. And that is exactly what we're doing when we post anything online.
Granted, not everyone learned to type when young and most (I've experienced) are two-fingered typists who "poke and hope", "search and destroy", "hunt and peck". I type so much that I wear the letters off keyboards (which is nice because those who don't know a keyboard well cannot use my computer).
I do have to laugh at those who brag of a college education in their profiles, yet their profile is filled with simple mistakes. Most of the time I doubt they're genuine mistakes; I think people have just gotten lazy. And with the dumbing-down of society in the last several decades, what more can we expect?
My business law teacher used to tell her classes, "If you wish the world to consider you intelligent, present yourself to the world intelligently." | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 6:46:05 AM | I so agree with you, OP. I never realized how many virtually illiterate people there are until I can onto this site. It truly boggles the mind. How did these people EVER graduate junior high/middle school, much less high school? Don't they teach English in the schools anymore?
We had weekly spelling tests, we had to diagram and punctuate sentences, and we had to write articulate, cogent, properly structured papers in order to graduate. Have these things changed?
It appears that if you can capitalize the first word of a sentence and finish it with a period, you are good to go. That's all you need to know about writing a sentence. How pathetic is that? It's amazing that people don't know the difference between your and you're, too, to, and two, have and of. Have and of bother me the most, I think. How often have you read someone writing something along the lines of:
"I would of gone with him if he'd of asked me."
when it should be written:
I would've (or 'would have') gone with him if he'd have (or 'he would've' or 'he would have') asked me.
I never had the luxury of going to college or university. I am able to write properly, without the benefit of 'higher education', so it can be done. We all make occasional mistakes. Granted, not everyone is a spelling whiz, but the basics of English should be known by everyone who went through the 8th grade. It ain't rocket science. I think that most of the illiterate people on this site are just too damned lazy to learn. I am only speaking about people for whom English is their first language. In fact, most people for whom English is the second (or third or fourth) language, do better than many native English-speaking people. How sad is that? | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 6:52:28 AM | ^^^You know, my college English professor also teaches high school English, and told me this past week that the curriculum has changed over the years. They are no longer allowed to teach actual grammar and spelling, just the concept of English and writing.
I found that odd, but he said memorizing grammar rules and spelling tricks are no longer condoned...they can sort of point students in the direction of where to study it or find it for reference, but it's not something that gets covered in class.
Perhaps that has a lot to do with it. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:14:46 AM | ^^^^Well that explains a lot. Nothing like "dumbing down" the language for the lowest common denominator. It also reflects the changes in society where proper use of the English language was a sign of education and social standing.
I am guilty of the typo, misspell, and use of colloquial phrases, but I understand the difference.
It's not just profiles and forums online I see this happening. Many published books now include mistakes/improper use of the English language that would have had my English teachers of long ago pulling their hair out. I read a lot, and often have the urge to "red pen" a book and send it back to the publisher.
As one teacher I had in high school would say-"How you present yourself in the written form can reveal a great deal about you. Who doesn't like to make a good impression?" | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:17:25 AM | ^^^I agree with this - to me it should be a given that a person would want to. always. But I TRULY think this generation is either lost on making one, or don't care to make one.
I hope that they just don't get it. It would really be disturbing to me to know that it was something they just didn't care about....
Granted I always liked English, writing, reading and got into public speaking, proofreading and editing in later years, so to me it's like breathing. But for the things that I don't do as easily (like math) I do twice the work on and work hard at cause I like to be able to do everything, or at least try to. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:43:49 AM | I actually think is has more to do w/ how the school system and parental guidence control/influence the education of children. If it is not stressed in a child's environment the importance of good, clear communication, how are they going to know they need it?
The ones who complain about other forum posters/profile viewers getting on their case about spelling, grammar, word usage aren't looking at the big picture or learning from the criticism. If I make a mistake, I can take my lumps, and I will try to improve on it. I think in many cases when someone comments on another's poor use of the Englih language they are trying to point out a way to help improve, not belittle or demean someone. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 9:07:48 AM | I'm not an expert on spelling, and grammar, either. None are perfect.
I do however, have a pet peeve for bad spellers.
Too much text speak is getting way out of hand. It's like people refuse to type in proper english anymore.
They can't be arsed to type words in a whole.
That alone shows complete laziness. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 9:38:31 AM | | I find it annoying, though not as annoying as you do it seems. Misspellings that seem like simple mistakes I can forgive, if it wasn't for spellcheck I'd misspell some words too. When people misspell ON PURPOSE though (and not just to make fun of the ones who do it seriously), like "hawt" for hot, it annoys me. Worse is textspeak, someone's profile better be amazing to make up for a single instance of using "U" for "you", "R" for "are", or "4" 4 "for", otherwise I'll probably go straight to the next one. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 11:17:25 AM | I agree, OP, its horrendous sometimes. I mean, ok, we all make spelling mistakes sometimes, but...
Their is sum awfull grammer and speeling on hear, and sumtimes peepul don't think how it comes acroos to uthers. Reely, they shud learnt to speek in propur englesh, rite? Just makes them come accros as loosers who learnt nuthin in skool.  
The worst ones to me, actually, are the people who post a damn novel of text as an OP... without a single paragraph break, punctuation, etc. I get a headache even trying to read it, most of the time I skim it as best I can, and if I can even grasp what point they are trying to get across, I *might* reply.
Me, I can be fond of overusing the ellipsis (...) sometimes. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 12:09:48 PM | I'm going to be nit-picky here, but comprehension skills are lacking as well.
For instance, how is this related to "Dating and Love Advice"?
I think in many cases when someone comments on another's poor use of the English language they are trying to point out a way to help improve, not belittle or demean someone.
I agree, but coming from the viewpoint of the person being "helped", it's patronizing.
I am often what I call "incorrected" by people who are trying to "help" me. When I say "between him and me", people roll their eyes and "helpfully" point out it should properly be said "between he and I". I always say, "Thank you for incorrecting me."
I, too, find it sort of puzzling that here we are, in a world of online communication where the written word is god, and so many people are poor spellers and have no clue how to form a coherent sentence. Given the high number of "older" folks with the same problem, I can't REALLY condemn modern school curricula as the culprit.
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Linking verbs are hard!
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 12:26:36 PM | LOL
I really need to ask...'Is it just me?'
Cracked me up!
"Is it just I..." is correct. You know this by making a statement rather than a question. "It is (just) I who feel this way..."
English is a difficult langauge, and the use of pronouns as object, subject, and/or possessive can be frustrating to the user. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 12:29:39 PM | I agree that good writing is relevant to the medium it's in. It's odd to me that anyone who's hanging around anywhere that involves a lot of text (outside random meaningless IMs or chat rooms) that they would be upset that spelling and grammar are things people consider in the mix.
If you're not the best at spelling or grammar/writing in general (and you don't want to do much about it), why go somewhere it can be easily pointed out? | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 1:34:51 PM |
^^^You know, my college English professor also teaches high school English, and told me this past week that the curriculum has changed over the years. They are no longer allowed to teach actual grammar and spelling, just the concept of English and writing.
I found that odd, but he said memorizing grammar rules and spelling tricks are no longer condoned...they can sort of point students in the direction of where to study it or find it for reference, but it's not something that gets covered in class.
Perhaps that has a lot to do with it.
Thanks for the answer, WIP. My son will be 40 next month so it's been 22 years since he was in high school also. I didn't realize that this had changed. What a terrible shame! Why on earth would schools stop teaching something so important? Forget about teaching the classics or how to write an essay. Teach kids the basics. Teach them how to write a proper sentence, paragraph and resume. Teach them grammar and how to spell. Few are going to be writing for a living, but basic written communication is a necessity.
God, this just breaks my heart to hear that these things are no longer being taught. Thanks again for the heads up, WIP. I think I'll go have a stiff drink now while I contemplate the dummying down of America. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 3:31:47 PM | | ^^^^^ I read an article not too long ago about a school district that no longer allowed the teachers to grade spelling tests. Apparently, it hurt the little darlings' self esteem when they missed some of the words. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 5:28:45 PM | Does it make me angry? No, not really.
I feel a little sorry that a lot of people don't seem to realize that, in a written medium, how we write is key to expressing who we are. It is not the be-all and end-all, but it is important. And people get an impression of who we are by how and what we write. (Oh, crap, I just started a sentence with "and." You're never supposed to do that!)
In this age of spellcheckers, even those who say they are dyslexic or "have ADD" really have no excuse for a poorly-spelled profile. | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:19:46 PM | Dear Friends,
Without wishing to be rude, poor grammar is one of those things that are what on PoF one seems to call a red flag. Literacy is to me what belief in god must be to a christian, a sine qua non. Just as some women appear to want solidity, and some men "hot" girls, life with someone who cannot tell a gerundive from a geranium might not work out for me.
Sadly, I have found that almost everything I have written in the fora here has been attacked not for content, but style. One of the reasons is that, although we do not indeed teach grammar, the APA and MLA formats exist to standardise college papers in order to save reading time. Both my bairns have mastered the mechanics, but only my daughter still writes within those parameters with an elegant style. Grammar nazi implies that one intend(note proper use of subjunctive which has all but disappeared from English ;) ) to correct other's expression. I do not. It is not that I, nor any other compassionate person feel that others are less worthy, rather, we choose to maintain some set of standards, rather like holding a wine glass by the stem, but more important.
Whyso? Because grammar and syntax are the building blocks of civilisation. Wine is a pleasure. The difference between us and barbarians is manners, language, and the thought that when injured we forgive rather than retaliate. In the end, learning to read or learning to count is not about getting a better job, but finding the compassion and beauty of three thousand years of trying to overcome our propensity for selfishness and violence. Math, grammar, and suchlike are the elements of discipline of the mind that we use to force the politeness that is underlying glue that holds our world together.
The last page of Clark's Civilisation says it all.
All good wishes,
CdC | |
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| Any other grammar nazis around these parts?
Posted: 6/19/2009 7:28:16 PM | It's ok to start a sentence with the word 'and', so your good. :)
I hesitate to say too much here. I once started a thread on how crazy I was being driven by the misuse of the word 'loose' for 'lose'. I wasn't picking on anyone specifically, merely just pointing out the blatant abuse of the word.
Needless to say, I just learned to keep my mouth shut and my eyes open. I do judge others on how they type, spell, punctuate, etc...So shoot me. I don't judge others by their clothes, or the car they drive or where they live, but, if you cannot write well, I LOSE interest quick.
I am saddened to hear that it will soon not be taught? Can this be true? How will books be written? Better yet, how will they be read? | |
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