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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/19/2009 11:19:41 PM | If someone would ask me “What is the strongest and weakest quality of my character,” I would answer “Honesty,” for both. I did pay my price for being honest and with years I’ve learned that there is a certain art in delivering the truth without compromising my integrity. This “Art” is not easy to practice.
We all have our “secrets,” small and bigger ones, and of course, we are not going to put them out on our profiles for everyone’s view. But what about common standards, like the person’s age, for example? What if someone “looks younger” than his/her age and feels that telling the truth would throw him/her out of the pool? And when you meet this person they tell you “it wasn’t important”, but it was for you?
If this person isn’t completely honest from the beginning – does it matter to you? Would you still trust this person and continue building your relationships, hoping that he/she will “do better” in future?
And what about these “double standards” – when people allow themselves act in certain way (like state he’s divorced when he’s just separated) but wouldn’t accept anything like this from the opposite party?
I’ve read that the Bible says, “You’re not supposed to lie, but you don’t have to tell everything.” And there is another quote which says that "only a fool speaks his whole mind…"
So… Shall we tell the truth or not? | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/19/2009 11:34:05 PM | Well, you don’t want to scare the fish away if you are trying to catch one. So a bad past would not work to list on your profile.
I think eventually you have to share personal stuff that you don’t normally share on open forum to the one you are interested in.
Imagine if people start listing stuff like,
- Hi I am an alcoholic
- I am a druggie
- I hit and killed the neighbours cat
- I am a couch potato
- I am unemployed
- I am a hooker
- I am dumb and I let people use me
- I just got out of prison
-…and so on and on LOL
I could list some really bad ones but I don’t want your thread to be deleted. But you know what I mean.
The people that lie on their profile about their age, gender, weight and marital status, I don’t have respect for them. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/19/2009 11:34:31 PM | As a former "truthteller" myself, I think we, who want to convey our truths to others -- who may not be ready to hear it -- also need to ready for the consequences of that action.
Some people become very angry and defensive when they hear a truth they'd rather deny or ignore. Some people become down right dangerous. Others can become down right vengeful.
If you're the caring type, you might really hurt a person who is not ready to hear what you have to say.
So while I honor truth and integrity, sometimes it's worthy to just hold the truth inside of us and not share it. Sometimes it's worthy to articulate the truth in a way that another person can digest it.
Sometimes it's even better to realize that the truth cannot and will not be heard and save your efforts for a person who will can appreciate and hear you.
If this person isn’t completely honest from the beginning – does it matter to you? Would you still trust this person and continue building your relationships, hoping that he/she will “do better” in future?
Absolutely. In my personal relationships, I don't want to involve myself with anyone who plays fast and loose with the truth. If a person cannot be honest about the small things that come up in the beginning how can they be trusted later on down the road?
If it is a big thing that they are being dishonest about it, you can forget it.
I believe in accepting people as they are. There's no reason to "hope" the person will do better. People are who they are and behave in ways that they find acceptable to themselves.
If it alarms or upsets another person, that person needs to decide whether relating to that person is worth the negative feelings that have arisen.
And what about these “double standards” – when people allow themselves act in certain way (like state he’s divorced when he’s just separated) but wouldn’t accept anything like this from the opposite party?
That's just sheer hypocrisy, which in my book is even worst than lying. In that case the person has held themselves above the same scrutiny and standards they hold other people to. It speaks to me of narcissism, and element of entitlement, a feeling of false superiority and the idea that they can "get away" with stuff, as if the rules don't apply to them.
People who think this way in one area of their lives invariably think this way in other areas, too. They just don't have ONE double standard.
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/19/2009 11:51:03 PM | I use a basic truth formula. If I know it will hurt you to tell you the truth, I will avoid telling it to you. If it is going to hurt me to tell you something, it depends on how badly I need to protect myself or how important it is before I will actually lie. "You really don't need to know" is a great answer if someone wants to pry. It certainly isn't lying. "Why would you ask that?" is a coy way to avoid such questions.
Past is past, and some of us do have skeletons. I prefer honesty, but I don't like busybodies. Need to know?
How old you are on your profile? Silly. Age is just a number. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/19/2009 11:54:56 PM | Of course..tell the truth. I appreciate having honest open people in my life. I am an open book and honest. But i use tact and watch my words carefully when I share the truth. I have caught several people in lies and when a guy said he wanted me to come meet him at his house but his profile says he only meets people at a coffee shop for first date, I questioned him about it. He got angry and snapped, "Well, can't I change my mind if I want?" My reply, "If you changed your mind, you should have changed your profile too to reflect that too" But he lied several other times in email and I caught him contradicting himself. I told him, "not interested" because I want nothing to do with someone who would lie from the start.
However, it is interesting that you chose the example of age to use regarding dishonesty. I think for myself personally, if the age isnt correct on profile due to the one fact that they don't look their age so people think they are lying, that is the only time I will tolerate it, as long as they come out and tell me their true age once we have established some conversation back and forth. Once i read a profile of guy who wrote me. His age was listed as 68. I saw his photos and so I thought perhaps it was a typo and perhaps he was 48 or 58 at the very most. I suppose those could have been outdated photos. So I asked. Most people never believed he was as old as he was or thought he had not updated his photos. I met him. He did look young.
I met a guy who also looked young for his age and so he put down 45 for his age when he was actually 60. I met him face to face and thats when he confessed to me first thing that he was actually 60. I did not believe him and laughed...teasing him about fishing for compliments. With a serious face he replied, now you understand why I list myself as 45? No one would believe me if I said I was 60.
What I respect is that fact that he came out at first opportunity and told me the truth. I still asked to see his drivers license though. | |
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Joined: 10/13/2007
Msg: 7 | |
| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:04:19 AM | Liars need to have good memories and since I don't I have to tell the truth so I don't catch myself out ;-)
In my experience with the dates I've gone on from this site fully 75% or more were waaaay off their 'stated age/weight/whatever. I am not big on the 'stats' of a person but if you say you are 40 and are really 55 then we have a problem.
My profile is 100% honest and I'm sure I'm not the only one out there...maybe we need a red star for the folks who are 'certified' :-) | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:13:56 AM | Monalove,
you've shared a very valuable experience and I sincere appreciate it. You are probably one of those open-minded people and have your e-mail options wide open, not shrinking them like: age <45. Period. Because some people do so. And then others, who doesn't want to lie, are automatically out of the game. But it's OK with me; it means these people don't want to broad their chances.
I guess I posted this question because more and more often I face situations in my life when people who aren't honest do much better. It's kinda my life experience. :)
But it was a silly act, you are right, man (who called me goofy). If people aren't honest -- will they EVER admit it here? Of course, not... mda. I knew it. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:17:20 AM | There's something to be said about being truthful. There's also something to be said about being wise enough to choose your words carefully.
Spilling secrets and exposing skeletons is unnecessary for grown ups.... lol.... pointing out weaknesses, in my opinion, is also unnecessary.... I think that before we go throwing out our ever-truthful thought, it's good to really figure out who will benefit from it.
It doesn't mean we should just keep our mouths shut and never utter the truth... but to what lengths should we go? I think there's a line... and I guess that's when choosing words carefully comes into play.
On the other hand, honesty is the best policy (that's a bumper sticker somewhere I think.... ) | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:31:15 AM | | This is just me personally.. there's not a right or wrong.. everyone has there own way about it.. I would tell the truth.. That isnt to say that i blurt my whole past out upon meeting someone.. But if they did ask.... i would have an honest answer.. It would be just to messy to keep up with the lies... then you end up lying to hold up the lie you started with.. Too much.. Take it like it is.. If a guy didn't like something about me, depending on what the situation is.. I might be willing to change... But the things that are not changeable.. I'd like to be upfront.. that way we don't dig into a deep whole, and both come out hurt. That all makes sense yea? | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:34:16 AM | BlueSunShine, (what's a beautiful nick!)
I appreciate your comments... but why did you mention skeletons? I wasn't thinking about past. It was more about mentality. Even my daughter admitted that people here (read: this country) are acting differently compare to what our values are. Same is my experience about some men I've met: they are just too locked up and won't tell the truth. I don't want to "investigate" them. But I think that relationships can't be equal if one side is honest and open another is not. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:43:13 AM | as others have said, the truth is important but depeding on the situation. all skeletons don't need to be revealed upon meeting. some people consider not telling the whole truth lieing by ommission. something basic like married or divorced, yes it's important to be truthful.
some dont tell the truth because it may be hurtful. its been my experience that it takes more backbone to tell the truth than to lie. it may hurt to tell someone the truth, but even more hurtful to prolong the lie thru deception. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:09:10 AM | 2hi-iq-4u.... thanks for dropping by, without you it could be just the "girls' talk". And thanks for your wise advice. Mmm... How to say it without sounding 'rude' (I still learning this 'art', OK?) -- but it seems like you are one of these "creative" people who are bringing unusual originality not just into their finances but into their relationships as well, right?
And again... here is this "gray area" I was talking about (or double standards): on one of the POF forum's you had replied to the OP who said " Can you imagine how a woman feels who thinks the world of you and wants to be your wife and you only want to live with her?" with the following: "I haven't met any women that delusional on POF, but I keep trying."
But at the same time, on your profile you are stating the following: "I am a polyamorous novice. Single, and looking for more than one."
So... how do you expect that a woman who feels that you are "the whole word for her" would share you with someone else? You wouldn't be "the whole" after that, right?
Isn't it a clear example of 'dual' personality?
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:11:02 AM | But it was a silly act, you are right, man (who called me goofy).
I didn't mean that you were goofy. I just meant that age was a silly example of lying. I was taught from a very young age that you never ask a woman her age, and then I learned that many men and women lie about age on a profile. There are so many other serious lies to account for that age pales in comparison. For instance "Are you married?" Lying to that question is unforgivable. I certainly wouldn't question a ladies integrity if she fudged a few years. It has to be one of the most acceptable lies on the planet. It's right up there with "Santa isn't going to bring you any toys if you don't behave" | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:24:30 AM | Often times omissions are as bad as blatant lies. I try to not hurt people with the truth but I will admit that I am the guy that will tell you what everyone else wont. Tact helps in my delivery but I hate to see people clueless. Plus I am just an ass.
~Skin~ | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 2:13:50 AM | Telling the truth is a lot harder than it seems.
To begin with, you don't even know what the truth is: all you get is your own perception.
Then, when you say something you don't know what the other person will hear: whether they will assign different meanings to words than you do (friend, love, trust, respect..); whether they will try to read stuff between the lines; whether they will even believe you or will assume you are exaggerating.
Honesty is not the easiest thing to define, but suppose we say that it means that the person does not deliberately attempt to mislead you. How are you going to judge that? You WILL be misled by your first impressions: it's inevitable; your brain takes a skeleton of information and fills in the missing detail with guesses all the time: even your eyes work like this -- a small amount of date and a lot of infilling guesses. When are you going to blame your wrong guesses on them and call them dishonest? Is it dishonest that they were more polite to you before they knew you well, for example? Is it dishonest that they didn't tell you they phone their mom every night when you never imagined that they would but find your vison of them sharply changed by this?
Even when people lie, the truth is there. Sometimes there is more truth in their lies than in their truth-telling: the person who lies about something reveals more of themselves than the person who tells the truth about it -- they reveal the presence of those influences which lead them to lie.
Until we can do mind-melds, we will all continue to mislead each other, intentionally or not. It seems to me that it's best to just leave space for this and to be open to the fact that any information you are presented with is not hard fact that removes uncertainty but actually has many possibilities.
When someone says, "I think this place is amazing" (random example) you don't know anything more than that they have said that -- you don't know that it's true, you don't know what they mean by "amazing" (amazingly wonderful or amazingly awful?). The more you relate to a person the more you can predict what their actions and words do mean, but since your mind will have differences to theirs it is as though they see everything in one spectrum of colours and you see it on another -- there's a lot of guessing that goes on. No matter how hard you try to be honest and open... | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 2:57:44 AM |
there is a certain art in delivering the truth without compromising my integrity.
It seems like you have found a universal " key" to your own inquiry!
" Delivery" even when simply saying hello, is perhaps the most important
aspect of all forms of communication, be it friend, family or stranger. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 4:57:31 AM | I have found, you can deliver the truth in a nice way, that doesn't make you feel schadenfreude while telling it. It gets the real job accomplished without insulting the other person.
typically, telling the truth artfully requires asking yourself, "how would I want to hear this?" before opening your mouth....and sometimes it also requires you to ask, "does it really help the other person to know this?"
some people decieve themselves, so they think they are telling me the truth.
in the end, tell the truth if you're asked. Don't burden everyone with your burdens, just to throw them off so they can't throw you off, first. You should be able to live comfortably with who you are, and thus not need to actively decieve. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:04:21 AM | | Being tactful and considerate will generally improve conversations and relationships. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:19:55 AM |
We all have our “secrets,” small and bigger ones, and of course, we are not going to put them out on our profiles for everyone’s view. But what about common standards, like the person’s age, for example? What if someone “looks younger” than his/her age and feels that telling the truth would throw him/her out of the pool? And when you meet this person they tell you “it wasn’t important”, but it was for you? It depends. If you didn't find out until you got to know the person, and you found that you really did think that he was a really great person for you, but was outside your age range, would you still give it a go?
What if you didn't know that the person was in your ideal age range until you decided that they were completely unsuitable, would you still reject them?
Because we live in a society that so often makes judgements about them based on their age, that simply aren't true about those people, we often subconsciously pre-judge people based on their age, when really those judgments are not reasonable.
If this person isn’t completely honest from the beginning – does it matter to you? No. No-one tells you the whole truth, about anything. I'd be far more worried if they lied to me about something that would violate my personal values, like if they already had a boyfriend or not.
Would you still trust this person and continue building your relationships, hoping that he/she will “do better” in future? If I am worried about them doing "better", then I've pre-judged them that they must tell the truth all the time, and keep me informed about everything, and that's just not realistic, because we all forget to tell people about some things that might affect them. We're human. We make mistakes.
And what about these “double standards” – when people allow themselves act in certain way (like state he’s divorced when he’s just separated) but wouldn’t accept anything like this from the opposite party? Again, it depends. If our values would refuse us to date anyone who is separated, even if we personally know that they will never get back with that person again, then it's not a double standard. But if our reasons for wanting to not date separated people are simply in case they go back to their spouse, then we are acting in our self-interest, and then we are acting with bias.
I’ve read that the Bible says, “You’re not supposed to lie, but you don’t have to tell everything.” And there is another quote which says that "only a fool speaks his whole mind…"
So… Shall we tell the truth or not? I was told that the Biblical Law about being honest, does not apply when it would do no benefit, and only cause harm, such as telling your wife that she looks fat in that dress, when she's going to wear it no matter what, and all that would happen is that you've started an argument, with no benefit. So if there is an advantage to both parties, to be honest, such as a woman who is under the age of consent who meets a man over the age of consent and both are interested in beginning the relationship with sex, then it would be only prudent to do so, because if he gets caught, he'll go to jail, and she'll be upset that her boyfriend is in jail. Even if he doesn't get caught out, when he finds out that she's under age, he'll dump her, because she almost ruined his life, and then how will she feel?
Just think about how many young women who will only date men their age, who date young man after young man, who is just interested in sex, and she ends up feeling used, and doesn't even start knowing what a good relationship is, until she's much older.
Just think about how many young men who ended up in a great relationship with an older woman, because they didn't ask how old she was in the beginning.
Honesty is mostly useful. It's only not useful when really it doesn't make any difference to our values, and just screws us all up. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:24:03 AM | In my opinion...there are facts (or stats) such as age, marital status, weight, height, number of children, etc. that cannot be denied or argued with.
Then there are opinions (or perceptions)....there are very few truths (in my opinion:). For example, once you remove the actual numbers beside the above stats, as in the actual number of pounds and inches beside the weight and height stats, it all becomes mostly a matter of perception - is 5'6 short or tall or just right? And is 140 pounds thin, average, overweight or just right?
Also, I don't get this "people can't handle the truth" mantra that's repeated ad nauseum in these forums ...I can handle the truth just fine thank you - I just don't want to hear YOUR version of the truth or have it shoved down my throat...and that's MY truth (now please handle it and get the hell out of my face!) See how that works? 
I don't even impose "my truths" on my kids or granddaughter - I offer them my opinions, I give them guidance, I offer suggestions, I share how I handled or solved a particular problem in the past that they might be having today, I try to show them (other) possibilities, I talk with them...but ultimately, I let them come to their own "truths". And for the dimwits out there (ah - I'm only stating my truth;) I'm obviously not talking about very young children or things that are absolutes or illegal or that can cause serious or permanent harm (duh).
Anyway, the bottom line (for me) is that most truths are subjective and not truths at all - they are mere opinions (not to be confused with actual verifiable stats, numbers and facts).
So for those who feel justified in telling me (or people like me) that I/we can't handle the truth, I would truthfully reply that I have no problem with the truth, it's arrogance I can't stand. But that would be just my opinion (not necessarily a or the truth - absolute, exclusive, inclusive, objective, subjective or otherwise;).
JMO | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:45:06 AM |
If this person isn’t completely honest from the beginning – does it matter to you?
For the most part. Depends what they're not honest about.
Would you still trust this person and continue building your relationships, hoping that he/she will “do better” in future?
Not again.
And what about these “double standards” – when people allow themselves act in certain way (like state he’s divorced when he’s just separated) but wouldn’t accept anything like this from the opposite party?
What about them? To them I simply say, "Good day."
I’ve read that the Bible says, “You’re not supposed to lie, but you don’t have to tell everything.”
Don't believe that shit. Look at the wording. Ain't no way that saying came from the Bible. There ain't a thou, thy, thine, or Jesus Christ anywhere to be found in there. Methinks thou hath been bamboozled.
However, yes, sometimes the truth matters, sometimes it doesn't. Saying you own your own home when the truth is you live in a house your parents own... that's a lie. But the little almost insignificant things are well covered by Brad Paisley's "That's Love". | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:52:07 AM | In my experience on POF and other dating sites, it does matter to me if people
aren't completely honest.
But I have found out that it's not a great idea to divulge too much about past
relationships and why they didn't work because it can come back to haunt you in times of disagreements.
One thing I think people should be totally up front about is health concerns though.
Because health issues can definitely affect any relationship.
I went out with a guy from this site for awhile and he had health issues. From the
start he was evasive about them (thinking back) and after a few months he told me
what condition he had (not sexual). If I had known from the start I would have
"googled" the condition and read up on it and then made a decision from there.
I probably would not have gotten into the relationship at all if I had my eyes wide
open. But I did and eventually regretted it because his condition and its' needs definitely affected everything we did. Any woman going out with him or anyone
with an illness should know up front, I think. I raised my kids and they are adults
I am not interested at my age of having another adult kid around with many health needs... brutal as it may sound.
So I think mainly that past relationship information should be shared but not in great depth but health concerns that affect a relationship MUST be shared, the sooner
the better.
Eyes wide open, isn't that what they say. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:55:06 AM | i think that is part of the getting to know each other process. not everything should be told stright up on the profile. I think its a matter of getting to know someone. as for secrets the more you get to know someone the truth will come out, but some secrets should wait to be revealed. weeks days or months or years down the road. no matter what people are going to love you or hate you.
I know for me i have things that i dont put in my profile that are certian types of women. and I wait and get to know the woman before i tell them everything that i like. so yes and no. yes you should be honest, but no not all at once and up front. | |
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| SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:55:21 AM | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ameerra, I love your posts. You are an intelligent lady, and I really agree with what you wrote...
Sometimes it's worthy to articulate the truth in a way that another person can digest it.
Right on. I love it when people are honest with me, I hate bullshit.
I believe in accepting people as they are.
Me too.
If you want to be truthful to someone then do it diplomatically. And be prepared to back up your truth with proof and solutions if necessary. | |
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