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| | When a man supports a woman...Page 1 of 2 (1, 2) | Last night I went to a party with friends and I got talking to a lady. The topic of dating came up and I said I didn't expect to ever find anybody, that I expected to be single for the rest of my life.
She was shocked and told me that if I had that sort of attitude, then obviously I wouldn't.
But as I've just read the piece of 'golddiggers', I know that I have nothing to offer in terms of finance or formal education and men just aren't interested in that. Gone are the days when a man provided for a woman.
The fact is I'm absolutely no good at earning money. Very few creative people are. Nor do I have a formal education. On a social level, my peer group is highly (formally) educated. These people draw me into their circle because my knowledge is just as solid as theirs is.
I spoke to another friend about the fact that so many guys wanted girls who could earn an income similar to their own and that I couldn't provide that. She was adamant that a rich guy wouldn't mind and that I had a tremendous amount to bring to the table.
The lady I spoke to tonight said that any guy who insisted that I have an equivalent formal education wasn't worth talking to because education was more than a piece of paper, and anyone who had a real education knew that.
I think, though, the one thing all these people have in common is that they are very, very well off financially, and that they're in their 50s and 60s, and they come from another era when men did provide for women, and women didn't have to be highly educated. These were not the values that a man looked for in a woman.
What are your opinions? | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 4:11:01 AM | writingstar,
no formal education, hmmm until recently, I didn’t either, but I have gone back to uni and got a Bachelor of Arts degree in Strategic Studies and International Relations, and im 47, so if a worn out useless like me can do it, a younger lass like yourself could as well it you wanted to.
But why should you do that just for others? Do it for yourself if you want to, but not for others. People should take you for what you are.
if i had a choice of a artistic type lady, who could work wonders around the home, or of a carrier first lady, who wanted to palm the kids off to day care, i would go for the homely lady every time. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 4:14:12 AM | Geelong, I'll be 54 in a few months (I look very, very young. A 33 year old guy tonight thought I was out of high school maybe 6 years...)
I've been in the States 2 years and started going to school last fall. Howver, because I have to earn as well as learn, I'll probably only finish the degree by the time I'm 60.
It doesn't answer the question, though. So, do I now have to wait until I am a graduate until I become 'acceptable' to the status quo? | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 4:24:35 AM | Wowwww… you look younger that me )
As for being acceptable, I know its of little consolation to you being over there, but if you were here, I would find you very acceptable, degree or no degree. i not such a shob as to equate personality with ability
so what are you studying? | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 4:32:25 AM | I've done a variety of things - creative writing and then realized that I've been doing it for a lifetime and that I'm probably better than my professor (I got all As anyway). I started on math and got all As for that, and really enjoyed it, but then realized that I liked it because I enjoyed puzzles and that I really wouldn't want to do it for a career.
This semester, I'm doing fashion design (which I thoroughly enjoy), gone back to piano lessons (which I'm thrilled about) and started doing Business Law (which I didn't expect to enjoy and discovered I found fascinating).
Next semester, I'll continue with all three of these because they each fulfil some aspect of me. I don't know what I'm going to do with them, though. I'll probably do business courses and set up some sort of business. I think it's my only option. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 4:45:22 AM | Business Law, now that is something I really wish I was good at, so I could bring the bourgeoisie pigs to their knees,
Mathematics, I wish I was good there to, so I could understand the books I read, like Stephen Hawking and Feynman | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 4:56:40 AM | You know writing star. I think your just fine on your own terms. You are taking care of yourself right now. So that makes you self-sufficient. That is really all any man will be looking for. Isn't that what you would like in a guy? Women and men have the same expectations. Any-one wanting more is not really worth your time anyway. They have to like you as you are. And you will find that certain guy, cause your just being true to yourself. Some fella is gonna love that quality in you. Applauding ya Honey....... | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 5:44:00 AM | | I totally agree with Ruby Lips on this. You are doing what you enjoy - following your own passions and interests. I'm 51, and know that it's a very real possibility that I will be by myself from now on out, but I try to fill my life with activities that I enjoy, friends, work, and creative pursuits. A man would be welcome in my life, but I'm not going to sit around waiting on him, to start living it. Like you, writingstar I'm a creative person, with no formal education. I considered going for a library degree, but would have to start from scratch, and I was able to get my job through experience. It usually requires a 4 yr. degree. I only went through 11th grade orchestra, but I'm playing in a community symphony. This is my midwestern roots talking but "there's more than one way to skin a cat" Just keep being true to yourself. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 7:15:47 AM | First, your income potential is limited only by your imagination and willingness to work. If you are willing, then all it takes is answering some questions you ask yourself. The answers will come if you don't shut them down.
Second, parties and Internet threads give you people's opinions, often without much behind them. Consider the source when considering information.
Third, From penny-aire to millionaire, there will be plenty of men to want you. Money only matters to some, and only some of those prefer a wealthy mate.
Fourth, if you find that what you have to offer is not valued by the one you offer it to, it says you are offering it to the wrong one.
Fifth, love is not business or psychology or ideas. It is what happens spontaneously being with somone else. Then the other things in life are arranged to support it. When love does not grow in your garden, consider transplanting yourself to one where it can.
You can find a man who wants to provide the financial support in the relationship. You can also learn to make money. You can also use an agent or business manager or representative to handle the business side as you pursue your creative work. That kind of relationship is how it is most often done, as creatives tend not to want to learn about and conduct business. You can get rich knowing only how to work with an agent, and letting them handle the business. You need not get your MBA. This would have been sixth but by then I stopped counting. I see nothing that could stop you from happiness except being on this side of a small hill to climb, from the top of which you would see the way. Each question is a step up the hill. You're getting higher. I wish I was high. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 7:43:04 AM | Hi everybody, thanks for the input. Encouraging.
Bearbrain, good points. I think, though, that the first point applies to what country one lives in. In the third world, it's a lot more difficult than that. I think that, with time, in the US, I'll manage. I guess I just think that by the time I've got it right, I'll be quite a bit older! | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 8:56:36 AM | Well your right as far as I'm concerned.I spent the vast majoity of my life supporting ungratefull women and kids,with nothing to show for it in the end.To women they must think that men are only banks.And of course the courts will agree to this every time.The vast majority of women I've met are far more concerned about their own issues....and anything concerning men fall on deaf ears. As men get into there 40's and 50's they start wiseing up to this.It took me 15 years to dig out from the last one.I'm not about to find myself in that position again.You can have all the charm,looks,personality in the world.But we as men see far beyond that.We know how financialy ruined we'll end up if it doesn't work.And sleeping on your buddies couch,in cars,in tents,camp trailers...while your ex has hooked up already with another...(because sociaty expects far less from women than men) isn't my idea of equality or fair play.
And yes there are exceptions,there always is. And please check my spelling and grammer | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 8:57:54 AM | writingstar - IMHO - unfortunately nowadays, and within our age group, many people have been stung by unequal divorce settlements and have become very wary of possible gold-diggers.
It's sad it really is as it does put a damper on many relationships. This does of course happen with both genders too.
To me, I always look at everything a person has to offer. Yes, in any household it is always good to have two sources of income, but what is important there is that both parties are willing to contribute and live a lifestyle equitable to their incomes?
There's so much more to life and togetherness and happiness than money, something so many in our society have missed.
Look first to yourself and what you have to offer as a person and go knowing that out there is someone special who will see and appreciate that.
Take care
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 9:59:27 AM | fun2behad,
In 53 years, I have never ever had a man support me or contribute in any way to my upkeep. I supported my ex husband because he felt that I was the breadwinner and he could sleep. After 5 years (and pregnanat), I decided I couldn't afford to support 3 people (myself, my husband and a new baby) so I dropped my ex husband. The divorce hearing went through in 3 weeks (lack of financial support).
Despite living in a country through sanctions, extreme prejudice, whatever, I managed to bring up an extremely nice, well rounded daughter, well ahead of her peers in terms of maturity. There's been nothing dysfunctional about our little 'family'.
Yes, many men our age group have been stung. And I, unfairly, unjustly, am sitting with the consequences.
I had no support, neither emotional nor financial. At 53, I can't afford to pay the rent and buy food on my own. My daughter helps. We are both putting ourselves through school together.
I have many men hitting on me all the time. A few 'hits' ago, someone asked me a question and I said I hadn't dated for 25 years. He was horrified and told me that he was 'normal'.
Excuse me?
I was married for 5 of those years, and the other 20, I have been struggling to survive, my energy drained. There was no money for dating, for going to places where there were men.
Whenever I did go out with men, they seemed to assume that I must be grateful for the meal and then they would want sex.
I began to resent going out with men because I needed to spend the time working in order to earn in order to pay for gas, food, rent, education (very, very expensive - even grade school and child after care). I couldn't spare the time to date - I was too busy trying to earn money, do the cooking, the cleaning, being emotional support for my child.
I didn't want the meal. I would have preferred some practical help. My kid was starving. I was battling to find work. Believe me when a country has sanctions against it, it is not the government officials that suffer - it is the people.
And there's no such thing as money for 'education'.
So, here I am, I get men thinking that I must be lazy, I must want their money, they're not prepared to help out.
The irony, of course, is that I'm a highly attractive women and men flock like flies.
My situation is different now - in some ways. I freelance write and earn a very small income from it. I'm full time at school the rest of the time. Together with FAFSA, we survive - barely. But we are working to a greater future.
There is something else here.
I don't think many women can contribute financially to the same extent as a man. The minute she has children, her situation changes.
At this point, if a man wants to take me out, he pays for it - all of it. I simply do not have the money. It's that simple.
There will come a time that this will change.
And you know what?
I don't think I'm going to be interested. Why on earth would I want to befriend a species that couldn't be more generous to a woman who worked her guts out in an honorable way, and never used anyone in her life. In fact, when I divorced my ex husband, I just told the lawyer not to worry about maintenance or anything as I would look after my daughter and myself. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 10:18:47 AM | While it is true generally speaking that the days of men supporting women are gone, there are still men who feel it is their responsibility to support their partner.
Often people say they want old fashioned romance, and, that they have traditional values, but that's a crock because traditional roles are a part of that. I have found more often than not that the men who trash talk women who expect men to foot the bill are men who cannot afford to do so! | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 10:38:25 AM | If it was at all possible to demonstrate that love is a very simple and good thing, I would try. But some doors are locked from the inside.
The premise one has determines what one's outlook discerns. Attitude determines altitude. It is the effect of expectations on perception. People treat you the way you act. You act how you expect people will treat you. All of the negative expectation is from a cognitive model of the world and/or self that predicts failure. Then by acting according to that model, failure does result.
It works the other way, too. If one's internal model of the world is positive, positive expectation results. Then you act as if the good things you imagined were happening. By acting that way, they happen. People respond to you and help. This ultimately is the choice we have. It is our access to power. It opens the door to potential.
Being a very astute critic still produces only a criticism. For any circular rut there is an amazing potential for sophistication given enough laps around. It is possible to spend one's life proving that life and people are as you suspect them to be.
But I prefer to imagine what I want then act as if it is happening. Complaints do explain to people what you need and the difficulty of getting it. But dreams explain to people what you need and how they can help you get it. People share your dream for their part in it. Dreams are what people pay to see when they see a play or movie, and what they like sharing with their friends in conversation. Dreams begin relationships and usher in love.
Let's say your dream is to make a specific amount of money doing something you love by a certain date. Once you state your dream in specific terms, you can share it with others. If the way you share it conveys hope and excitement, people will respond by wanting to help. If the way you describe your struggle is positive, people will identify your struggle with their own, and want to help. Being positive allows people to help you.
Being negative will only result in a very short-lived response. people will initially hope to cheer you up and get you to take a more positive attitude. When you argue to prove that things are as black as you know them to be, people turn away like changing the channel on a bad TV show. Then you see their uncaring back and your truth is intact: people don't help, they don't care, men only wanted sex.
It is no use trying to show someone that their own attitude is what prevents them from setting and reaching goals. They must one day discover this by noticing examples of how others have succeeded. Then if they want the results they will adopt the successful approach. This holds true for love as well as business.
I hear in this your history a lot of animosity towards men. I hear frustration about having had to struggle. So in all I hear animosity and frustration. I see a possible relationship between your attitude and the results you report.
Going to school is good, so it sounds like you have your goal and are on track. Then is the problem men? Do you want one, or not? I can't tell. It seems not. I hear reasons why you don't, including that men aren't worth wanting. BTW, men and women are the same species, just different sexes.
Resentment, anger, pessimism. Is there anything you wish to accomplish or are you just filing a report explaining why you have decided not to have a relationship with a man?
Support can be financial and it can be encouragement. A loving mate can support your efforts in so many ways. He can help you dream by talking, and by listening as you think aloud. He can help you see the other side of things that you wouldn't see by yourself. He can contribute new ideas that you wouldn't have thought of. He can share excitement, and be someone whose interest inspires you. He can remind you to keep tyrying when you get discouraged. He can help with your feelings, making you feel good. He can take your mind off things. He can stand beside you so that you know you are not alone. He can catch you should you fall. He can celebrate your successes. He can teach you what he knows. He can make your home a loving place of pleasures waiting to be had. But you would need to expect that he could do these things, and then you would want these things, and you would also want to give to him the same way. Money is a part of it but love matters more. Support is many things. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 10:43:13 AM | Skylar1again,
Virtually all my friends are supported by their husbands. Some of them have never worked a day in their lives. Ironically, most of them have been married for a life time. Only one or two have been divorced. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 11:47:38 AM | | When you are talking about marriage, I really do not see what difference who makes the money. If they both make money, if it is just the man, or if it is just the woman. What matters is, is everything being taken care of. Who does what, should not matter. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 12:24:50 PM | don't think I'm going to be interested. Why on earth would I want to befriend a species that couldn't be more generous to a woman who worked her guts out in an honorable way, and never used anyone in her life. In fact, when I divorced my ex husband, I just told the lawyer not to worry about maintenance or anything as I would look after my daughter and myself.
Well it sounds like your bitter for sure all I can say is........"wecome to the club" we men have put up with this for years.Tell ya what.....you straighten out the women of the world.....and I'll straighten out the men.......seeing how men and women could honestly care less about one another over issues like this
ps.....is my spelling ok.......how bout my grammer | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 1:01:22 PM | hiwayman, there is a bit of bitterness to be sure, but I'm too pragmatic for it to be very much.
I agree with you about the women. It disgusts me. It's vengeance, of course. And greed. Not very nice qualities. However, they probably deserved each other! | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/4/2005 1:26:24 PM | The word "bitterness" is a word that really shouldn't be spread around so easily (including me here)......Life can really kick your butt the longer you live.You can't avoid it.Issues like this one can bring out strong feelings in folks.No 2 peaple (man or woman) can go thru the exact same experience......and learn exactly the same from it.We are all different. And at different stages of greiving.The more you have invested in a relationship (emotional or financial) the more its going to hurt when its over. The things I've learned and the code I follow now.....were developed from my experiences.I don't expect anyone to understand,or approve or disapprove of them.Being single is not easy.There is sooooo many things you have to watch out for.Take your time.Not every man feels the way I do.Most men go thru this because most men are the ones that end up out of the house.But like everything else in life there are exceptions to everything.I wouldn't get discouraged.You seem like a pretty nice gal.......happy trails | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/6/2005 9:34:44 AM |
Virtually all my friends are supported by their husbands. Some of them have never worked a day in their lives. Ironically, most of them have been married for a life time. Only one or two have been divorced.
Of course, because they know who they are. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/6/2005 5:19:51 PM | Writingstar...I think there are a lot of men out there who cup their balls in one hand and their wallet in the other. Do you really want that kind of man?
Money is just a tool, a thing...it means nothing other than the value people place on it. Anyone can earn money...anyone can work a job.
You do support yourself don't you? I mean while you are single, who pays the bills and feeds you?
As long as you are supporting yourself, I really don't see where money has to be an issue to anyone.
Once I have finished my schooling, I'm pretty certain of a fair income and the chances are that I may not attract a man till I'm done school because to him perhaps it's an inconvenience and he may worry that it'll cost him too much.Needless to say, I don't have a problem with being single...as long as I don't end up with a stiff schmuck in the end I'm good to go.
Women's roles are pretty confusing right now...we're in a flux where we are torn between the new way and the old way, no longer are we staying at home with the kids as many men are not earning enough to support a whole family on his income alone. Women are forced to offset that with her own career as well as the household responsibilities.I do it all...support my family as well as schooling and a job. That includes all the other stuff.
I'm mainly alone because I pretty much ran the whole show and my ex idiots came home from what I deemed petty jobs to sit on the couch while I vaccuumed under their feet...needless to say it didn't take long for me to realize that this was not a fair deal plus a whole lot of other issues that I simply could not live with any longer.
If I ended up with a man who was filthy rich, great, if not , great...either way I'm not in it for the money but he will tow his weight or it ain't happening. I don't need a ball and chain to weigh me down when i am my own hero. Once my career is established, I'll have that much more say in how it's going to be in my life...
I'm a generous person, I give plenty of what I have with no regard for how it returns to me, it does anyway...but when i meet a stingy man...I pffft him off fast...big time turn off. He can take his money to his grave for all I care, I'm too busy living.
Not good enough? Not educated enough? Bull! You're ok just the way you are...
The ones who bitch and whine about golddiggers are all about their money and I figure it's best to let it be theirs...it's all they have to offer anyway. | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/6/2005 6:22:44 PM | | writingstar - you're a fine person and a wonderful lady - I honestly respect people like you.... | |
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| When a man supports a woman...
Posted: 7/8/2005 11:21:17 AM | | Being single now for a few years, I can relate to what you are saying. I think that it's important for a woman to be happy. If you are happy in your life and your career, that's more attractive then having a lot of money, what appears to be a great education and career and being miserable. I too am artistic. I would prefer to just write my entire life, but it's not completely reasonable. I am taking my creative talents, etc. and applying them to an education because for now it seems that if I am going to be alone for a long time, I need to support myself. I also have a great desire to help others and the path I'm taking now will allow for that eventually. Good luck with finding what makes you happiest. Money is simply money. You can lower or raise your standard of living all the time, but what's inside is what counts. I've been happy making 6 figures and I've been happy being homeless. | |
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