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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 6:40:58 AM | For three years now, our daughter has been in a shared (50/50) custody arrangement because we both felt that it was in the best interests of our daughter to have a meaningful relationship with each parent (she is 4). We felt that we each had important value in our daughter's life. On the surface, it was and is a wonderful idea for our daughter and she has for the most part benefited from the arrangement with a few adjustment issues that cropped up from time to time that required tending to and one rather signficant issue that required resolution. She is a well-adjusted four year old with a lot of love for both her parents. We have, over the past four years, strived to show to her a united front as parents and to demonstrate to her that while we may not be able to love each other and live together, we both love her unconditionally and "share" her so she can experience the love of both of us.
During that time, behind the scenes, there has been increased hostility and anger between us that at times has reached epic proportions. I taught him early on that he could treat me poorly and as I strive to stop that treatment, the tension rises. We have tried to resolve our issues through counselling to no avail because in the words of our counsellor, if you both cannot see what you each need to own, you will not succeed. Today I was told for about the 100th time that everything is and always has been my fault, if I would only do this, or be this way, he wouldn't have to get angry with me and call me names and threaten me. I've reached my breaking point with his behaviour. I've done the work I needed to do on the things I needed to do in order to pave the way to a healthy relationship between us but I'm still facing the same behaviour from him time and again because he has never (even in counselling) accepted any responsibility for his behaviour. He does not even acknowledge it, and didn't even when our counsellor pointed out the observations he had made personally.
Our daughter is only four and I am finding it very difficult to accept that no communication between us is what is in her best interests. I feel that is would only be the best interests of us. My health has deteriorated over the last four years, due to stress and while I am doing everything I can do to relieve my stress, I recognize that I cannot change him. I am feeling guilty right now because I can't seem to find the strength within myself to put up with being yelled at and cussed out whenever he is not feeling that he has all the control. I have one card I could play that I have not wanted to play because it is extreme in that it would put it out on record in court documents that we cannot get along. What I am speaking of here is a parallel parenting order whereby all communication between us is in writing. Sadly, I know that even with a court order, he will refuse to participate out of spite because he doesn't like having anything forced on him. That will lead to my having to return to court and seek resolution that could eventually put our custody arrangement in jeopardy.
He is a good father to our daughter, aside from one incident that involved physical abuse over a year ago of our daugher by him. Since that incident he has seemingly made efforts to find other methods to parent besides extreme physical punishments. I'm fairly confident that our daughter would disclose if that were not the case. I have observed their relationship and can see for myself that she loves her daddy and wants to be with him as much as she wants to be with me. I really do think that his abusive behaviour is reserved especially for me because he has always felt that I trapped him into fatherhood by refusing to have an abortion. He has told me on more than one occasion, "You may not like how I treat you but there is not a damn thing you can do about it"...the most recent time he said this to me was less than an hour ago on the phone. I had called him to ask if he would be willing to communicate only in writing from now on to give us both a break from the hostility between us. That sent him off on a tirade about how the hostility between us was all my fault.....
So with that bit of history, I am wondering if anyone has any words of advice for me in terms of whether or not I should take that step into the court system and whether or not you feel that I should just "suck it up" as he tells me I should for the benefit of our daughter. By sucking it up, I could ensure that we were able to share information between the homes, which we can do for the most part without too much difficulty. The other option I have is to allow him to follow through on his threat not to share information about our daughter with me. I feel strongly that this would not be in our daughter's best interest because at this time in her development, our ability to know and help reinforce what we agree on (which is for the most part there...the agreement) in both homes is ultimately what is best for her and by extension us as parents.
The difficulty only ever arises when I have a different opinion from his or I do something he doesn't like, then it goes straight into yelling and name-calling by him which forces me to hang up the phone, which infuriates him and he calls me 20-30 times, leaving texts or messages telling me what a piece of shiat he thinks I am, how stupid I am, how unreasonable I am for not agreeing with him or making threats that he will never share information with me again if I don't pick up the phone when he calls me so he can "tell" me what he wants to tell me, which of course is always what a piece of shiat he thinks I am..... The thing I find most frustrating is that I tell him that I can accept we won't always agree but must respect that what we each do as parents with our daughter in our home. He can't seem to let anything drop if I don't agree with him....and I refuse to lie to him and tell him I will reinforce in my home things that I don't find acceptable. The latest fight was with respect to his use of physical punishment with her...she slapped him so he slapped her back to teach her not to hit. I personally find that hypocritical at worse and abusive towards a child he has already spanked to the point of bruising her in the past. He seems to want me to tell him it is ok and I simply cannot do that. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 6:51:52 AM | It's the reason I got divorced and later got a restraining order against the father of my children. As a parent if you see poor behavior you cannot put up with it, it may eventually harm your child. He is working his way towards supervised visitation in my mind.
I would speak to an attorney, what ever custody agreements you have are not working. You need above all to protect your child from harm. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 6:56:40 AM | Wow dear.
My concern here is for the child. He may not be physical abusing you, but he is mentally abusing you. When will he begin to abuse your daughter like that? I mean, if he is doing this to you, it is only a matter of time before he begins to do it to her. Does he treat other people in his life, other females, this way?
You said he spanked your child to the point it left bruises!!! That would be a big red flag. There is a line between spanking and spanking to the point of leaving bruises.
{He is a good father to our daughter, aside from one incident that involved physical abuse over a year ago of our daugher by him} ---- how is he a good father if he physically abused your child? Now, I know I dont know him and I have never witnessed the relationship he has with your child, but he does sound like an abuser by the way you described him and I would be very cautious of him being around your daughter.
I would document each incident, each punishment, each time he gets nasty with you and I would go to the courts. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:00:25 AM | Wow what a dilemma but I imagine (from reading your posts over time) that you've thought this thru quite considerably anyway.
Only things I can think of, are:
Is there a relative or close friend who can act as go between for a period of time while you re-group?
If he goes into yelling and name-calling mode, keep repeating to him.... 'I only want what is best for our daughter...'
The other option I have is to allow him to follow through on his threat not to share information about our daughter with me. I feel strongly that this would not be in our daughter's best interest because at this time in her development, our ability to know and help reinforce what we agree on (which is for the most part there...the agreement) in both homes is ultimately what is best for her and by extension us as parents.
I might go for this ^^^^. The smacking situation at the end of your post is not good at all but unless that escalated I would have to leave that to his conscious. Let him be the parent he thinks he is to a daughter who (from what I have read on your posts) will soon let either of you know what she wants. Finally, if the whole situation is affecting your health I would hazard that your health issues may have more of an affect on your daughter than you both agreeing to and knowing what the other is doing.
Best wishes - hope you can work it out... | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:14:58 AM | Thank you ladies,
Carolann, I know this but can't figure out why I'm fighting it so hard....do I not trust my own judgement? I think that is the main issue because I know with a certainty that I don't want to do anything to tear her father out of her life unless it is absolutely necessary to do so. Was that something that came to you gradually...the acceptance, or was it part of a long process for you as well? I do know that sometimes he can still make me think it is me until I think about it later and go "Hey....wtf? He was the one calling me names!" I just wonder how much more has to happen before I will take action. I did take action last year after the spanking and it wasn't an easy decision to make because I was so afraid of the fallout...and rightly so because it has been a nightmare. I was so proud of myself though for not allowing my fear of his repercussions against me to stop me from reporting him.
one shot,
he is a typical I'm right, you're wrong type of person who gets in heated debates that raise the volume of his voice and he does utter words like stupid in his "attack" of another's opinion, not only with me but with other people. As for his relationships with other women, I really can't say because he hasn't had a long-term relationship with any (past 6 months) in his lifetime (he is 43) and I haven't 'witnessed' how he interacted with them. I can only speak of my own situation. Our daughter is his only child.
Our daughter is an intelligent, articulate, stubborn little girl who has no problem standing up for herself. She doesn't like raised voices and when I have had to raise mine to her on rare occasion, she tells me flat out she doesn't like mean voices and tells me straight out. I know she does the same thing with dad, in fact he has told me as much and I've seen her do it with my own eyes. He has been very open with me about how he disciplines her (admitting to the spanking of her 16 times) mainly because I don't think he thinks there is anything wrong with anything he does and he feels he can defend successfully anything he does. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:32:52 AM |
My health has deteriorated over the last four years,
You have suffered enough. I don't think it is in the best interest of your daughter for your life to be a living hell. You should do what you have to do in order to make your life more bearable. Your daughter will be fine. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:38:11 AM | I'm sorry to hear youre going through this. If your health has been suffering for so long now you need to do something to stop it deteriorating further! Stress/anxiety only gets worse when the issue isnt dealt with. If he is the reason for the stress (we all get the regular stuff) but if he is the reason that it has deteriorated then you need to deal with the issue which as you have said is him.
some other posters have pointed out other ideas in which to cope with the situation, such as getting a go between, but this i feel may cause conflict for the person acting as the go between.
i think the advice to speak to a lawyer is best, see what they have to say. possibly a letter from your lawyer stating that if his unreasonable behaviour continues, that they have a good case for supervised access or a restraining order. just him receiving the letter might be enough to make him wise up.
documenting everything, such as his phone calls, the content of them, and how he behaves when you meet etc... will all help your case if thing go further with the lawyer.
everyone has their own opinions on disciplining a child, but to spank a child enough to leave bruises is out of order. could there be a possibility of some sort of parenting course in the US?
I hope it all works out for you!! | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:39:13 AM | I believe spanking should be the last resort. I have spanked my daughter a total of 3 times in her 8 years, however they werent spanks that left bruises, just a firm pat on the bottom, just enough to get her attention.
When I mentioned how he behaves with other women, I was also speaking of his mom, sisters, and other women who he was in a relationship with. I am in no way a therapist or a pshycologist, but I did take sociology and phsycology classes and the things I read, when pertaining to abuse, is that sometimes when one parent is abusing the other, it CAN manifest onto the child. And how he treats other females in his life can tell alot about what type of person he will be and how he will treat you/others. How else does he act around the daughter? Is he mean to her? Loving? Affectionate? | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:50:25 AM | | He is when I've seen him and her interacting loving and affectionate with her as any parent should be. I was "floored" last year when he told me what he did. I would never have thought him possible of such a thing.... | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:56:34 AM | | People can and often do surprise me. I never would have thought in a million years my husband would have cheated and left me when I was pregnant, but he did. Nothing is ever impossible. I would just strongly recommend to continue to watch him and his interacting with his child and document everything. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:06:26 AM | caz, I have done the things you recommended doing and quite honestly it doesn't matter because he is right....he can treat ME any damn way he chooses and there is not a damn thing I can do about it. He is not physically violent towards me....in many ways I truly wish he were....that is easier to "prove". Unless I can "prove" he is an unfit father to our daughter, there is nothing I can legally do and until he does enough to prove his unfitness, the courts will see it as he said/she said......thanks in part to all those "wonderful" people who have abused the Family Court system in the past for their personal vendettas. Perhaps how an adult treats other adults should matter but you can be a biatch or a prick and as long as you are not proven an unfit parent, your children remain with you and perhaps rightly so....I don't know, do you?
Legally, it is a domestic situation even though we do not live together. His calling my home 20-40 times in sequence is harrassment and if we didn't share a child, he could be charged but because we do, the police won't get involved. He calling me names and verbally assaulting my character is not covered under the law....the old sticks and stones theory I suppose.
The only way to resolve this is through the Family Court system and even with court ordered no contact except in writing.....it is about as useful to prevent him from harrassing me as any other piece of paper.
I have contacted my phone company and ordered call screen so I can block his numbers when our daughter is in my custody. I will be trying to do the same with my cellular phone. Of course, this is more than likely going to escalate the problem until it comes to a head once and for all. I have to unblock the numbers from my cell when she is with him so I can be contacted in case of emergency, but I don't have to unblock my home number ever and I cannot to protect my son from this. It is really pissing me off that I have to go this route, but I suppose anger is my friend right now to give me the strength I need to do what needs to be done....tears serve no useful purpose. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:24:11 AM | Let's get down to brass tacs. Your daughter didn't tell you about the spanking, which you assume she might have mentioned; he volunteered the information. Your daughter is exactly the type of person to set him off and I assume the spanking that was inappropriate happened when he was angry?
My first thought is that sharing information is unnecessary. Children adjust to homes being different. You have the same basic ideas apparently on how said child should be managed in both homes. Even with the 50/50 custody, you are more of an influence on her than he is, so what are you afraid of in terms of not sharing information?
Are you afraid that involving the courts could result in court-ordered supervised visitation or no visitation? Are you worried that he will take a hike period? It sounds like your ex is quite a bit like mine but my situation is different. The youngest is 10, he is rarely with one of my kids without at least one of the others with them and/or they are in public (stores/restaurants), and rarely are they at his apartment but I can guarantee you he wouldn't start shit there because my kids would scream bloody murder and/or be out of the door before he knew what hit him.
Are you afraid that he is going to again inappropriately discipline her or begin the verbal abuse with her when you are no longer around to be his verbal punching bag? Is it possible to explain to her without alienating her that she needs to tell you if daddy spanks you or yells at you, yada, yada? I think to some degree you know the court thing won't help and the written thing I don't think is going to help what you want to accomplish.
Your only solution may be going to court and laying your cards out as to why you are concerned about a relationship that has no communication between you and if a judge tells him he needs to get his shit together? That is still someone telling him what to do. You're in a catch 22. If you want him to be a father to her, is there another choice between him making you miserable and no communication? When he is abusive, can you sing a song in your mind and just let him get done with his rant and avoid the calling incessantly?
My ex stopped calling if I hung up on him because he knew I wouldn't answer and is truthfully too lazy to call me 20-30 times. If he acts stupid on the phone, I don't get into it I just hang up. If he is in my house and starts shit, I tell him to leave, if he doesn't, I go sit in my van. Isn't quite as much fun screaming when there is no audience. The kids employ basically the same strategy with him but it has been a learning curve for them too. My daughter took a lot of b.s. from him during middle school (she will be a senior next year) because she did become his new target and she was protecting me.
My point is that part of the key to this lies in how honest your daughter will be and whether she will tolerate unacceptable behavior because she is smart enough to know if she says something, she might not be able to see her dad. Unless I am misunderstandig the spanking thing, I would assume that not only did it surprise you that he did what he did but that you discovered it from him and not her. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:35:03 AM | | Is there any way you could look into some sort of mediation before you have to go the formal court route? Maybe he believes that you would never take it to court, so having a mediation session may slap him back to reality here. It will also having the benefit of forcing him to step up to the plate and change his behaviour and put the ball totally in his court, so whatever happens he will be the one that chooses the final outcome. If mediation is an option, let him choose what he wants to do. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 9:35:06 AM | I took me years to get to the point where I had to put my foot down. I was so tired of the constant arguing and anger issues he had. I hate to argue and refuse to yell like a maniac in front of children, but it is also a big intimidation factor for me. Loud voices and put downs make me cringe internally and yes it was making me ill. My parents used to 'discuss' problems, no one yelled in my house.
I thought it would end after the divorce but I had to get the restraining order because every time he called the kids I got an earful.
Now he is not allowed to contact me other than in writing or through an attorney. It is incredible how much more serene my days have become.
He calls the kids nightly but I no longer have to deal with the abuse. My children are older than your little one, though. He loves them dearly but is still very angry over the divorce.
I am nervous for my kids 2 week holiday with their Dad. He now lives with his Mother and they fight like rabid dogs.
But the main reason I got the restraining order is because I did not want my daughter growing up believing verbal abuse is normal in a relationship and that the woman should just 'take it' | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 10:18:50 AM | So easy the journey we set ourselves upon one day, not realizing the difficulties we will face along that path.....
Carolann, thank you for sharing...it has helped a bit to ease the guilt I am feeling over not being strong enough to deal with him in the smartest way possible at this moment in time, but it gives me confidence that I'm on the right path at least.
He left a message on my phone about an hour ago informing me that he feels it is now necessary for him to investigate my fitness to be a mother to his child. He informed me that he was going to talk with my 15 year old son about me and anyone else who may have information which could be pertinent to proving my fitness to raise his daughter. I was angry when I heard the message and instructed my son to only answer the phone if he recognizes the number and it is not my daughter's father for his protection. Her father has tried in the past to involve my son is our issues so this is no idle threat of his, but a potential pattern of behaviour. My son at that time was understandably upset by this and he doesn't need to be dragged into this again.
I then had a good laugh about the pitifulness of his latest attempt to manipulate me into conforming to his will. I texted him the number of the Children's Aid Society and reminded him that it is his legal responsibility to report on me if he really felt I was a risk to any child. I'm sure I won't be getting a call from CAS because they just closed his file a month ago and it is well documented with them the kind of relationship we have and they still chose to close the file because in their opinion, we were protecting her sufficiently from our issues, another reason why I have doubts about whether or not she is truly at risk with him. Now I am mad that I allowed myself to have any kind of reaction at all because I know this is what he feeds upon.....  | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 10:19:05 AM |
During that time, behind the scenes, there has been increased hostility and anger between us that at times has reached epic proportions. I taught him early on that he could treat me poorly and as I strive to stop that treatment, the tension rises. We have tried to resolve our issues through counselling to no avail because in the words of our counsellor, if you both cannot see what you each need to own, you will not succeed. Today I was told for about the 100th time that everything is and always has been my fault, if I would only do this, or be this way, he wouldn't have to get angry with me and call me names and threaten me. I've reached my breaking point with his behaviour. I've done the work I needed to do on the things I needed to do in order to pave the way to a healthy relationship between us but I'm still facing the same behaviour from him time and again because he has never (even in counselling) accepted any responsibility for his behaviour. He does not even acknowledge it, and didn't even when our counsellor pointed out the observations he had made personally.
Our daughter is only four and I am finding it very difficult to accept that no communication between us is what is in her best interests. I feel that is would only be the best interests of us.
I'm trying to understand what you mean by this. Is this something he has said, that you two do not need to communicate? Or is it something that you feel having the court ordered "in writing" communication will cause?
What kinds of communication do you need to have with him that ends up in tension/fighting and stress?
My health has deteriorated over the last four years, due to stress and while I am doing everything I can do to relieve my stress, I recognize that I cannot change him. I am feeling guilty right now because I can't seem to find the strength within myself to put up with being yelled at and cussed out whenever he is not feeling that he has all the control.
Can you give an example of how he starts to treat you this way, like in what context? I don't know the logistics of dropping of and picking up a child and what sorts of information needs to be relayed back and forth.
I have one card I could play that I have not wanted to play because it is extreme in that it would put it out on record in court documents that we cannot get along. What I am speaking of here is a parallel parenting order whereby all communication between us is in writing. Sadly, I know that even with a court order, he will refuse to participate out of spite because he doesn't like having anything forced on him. That will lead to my having to return to court and seek resolution that could eventually put our custody arrangement in jeopardy.
Would it put your time with your daughter in jeopardy or his?
It seems like your ex thinks he has you between a rock and a hard place where he can treat you however he wants because you are powerless to do anything about it. But is there anything that gives you that kind of power over him? For example, is his worst fear that you could take his daughter away from him (not that you would)? | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 10:25:48 AM | I was writing my last post on this thread while you were posting this, so I hadn't read it when I asked all of those questions.
He left a message on my phone about an hour ago informing me that he feels it is now necessary for him to investigate my fitness to be a mother to his child. He informed me that he was going to talk with my 15 year old son about me and anyone else who may have information which could be pertinent to proving my fitness to raise his daughter. I was angry when I heard the message and instructed my son to only answer the phone if he recognizes the number and it is not my daughter's father for his protection. Her father has tried in the past to involve my son is our issues so this is no idle threat of his, but a potential pattern of behaviour. My son at that time was understandably upset by this and he doesn't need to be dragged into this again.
I then had a good laugh about the pitifulness of his latest attempt to manipulate me into conforming to his will.
My GOD what in the world does he want you to do so badly? I don't understand what he could be so upset about. He has her half the time, so he parents her without your involvement, and vice versa. What would he be so concerned with?
I texted him the number of the Children's Aid Society and reminded him that it is his legal responsibility to report on me if he really felt I was a risk to any child. I'm sure I won't be getting a call from CAS because they just closed his file a month ago and it is well documented with them the kind of relationship we have and they still chose to close the file because in their opinion, we were protecting her sufficiently from our issues, another reason why I have doubts about whether or not she is truly at risk with him. Now I am mad that I allowed myself to have any kind of reaction at all because I know this is what he feeds upon.
Don't be mad, I think it was an entirely appropriate reaction.
Do you think he is projecting what he is afraid YOU WILL DO to him, onto you?
I think having to put everything in writing is a great idea, so you can have a paper trail. I hope you are saving his messages to you AND I hope you are keeping a journal.
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 10:48:35 AM |
I'm trying to understand what you mean by this. Is this something he has said, that you two do not need to communicate? Or is it something that you feel having the court ordered "in writing" communication will cause?
He has threatened almost from the moment the papers were signed placing our daughter in 50/50 joint physical custody that he was going to withhold information about her from me if I didn't a b or c. Now a b and c ranged everywhere from how I spoke to him (valid and corrected), to how well I could respect his rights as a father (valid and corrected), to difference in opinion on the causes of our daughter's behaviours...he is not interested in hearing my opinions unless they agree with him....and because much of my opinions are based in emotions/instinct, he declares them completely invalid....that is where the issues unresolved lie. Yesterday I did try to tell him that his house/his rules was fine with me but I couldn't ever condone his hitting her hand to deal with her aggressive behaviour towards him and he kept trying to validate his actions when I refused to agree with him. I even told him how I could see that he felt that was the best option. I could have stopped the whole thing right then by saying, "you did the right thing" but when my daughter tells me about it later, I cannot support what he did by saying daddy was right to do what he did because I don't believe he was and I don't want her to think that hitting is a way to solve a problem. She will tell me, I know her well enough to know she will tell me.
What kinds of communication do you need to have with him that ends up in tension/fighting and stress?
Future you are a parent.....think about all the discussions you have with your husband about how to deal with your child.....those are the things that I think still need to be discussed. Four year olds are still learning about the world and their place within it and need consistency in the messaging from their parents. Now imagine for a moment, that there was no communication with that other parent AND that you didn't see your child for one week at a time....how effectively do you truly believe you could parent that child? If that is truly what happens with our daughter, then I will rise to that challenge and parent her to the best of my ability, but nobody can say that it is in the best interests of a child to have this type of situation.
Can you give an example of how he starts to treat you this way, like in what context? I don't know the logistics of dropping of and picking up a child and what sorts of information needs to be relayed back and forth.
The majority (and from now on all) exchanges will take place via daycare or in a public place period end of sentence.
I will cite on example, there are many....
On Family Day this year, there was no daycare so he had to come pick her up here. He said he would be here at 4:00, he is never on time so when he arrived at 4:30 to pick her up, I directed him to my living room to get her ready to go and went into my kitchen to avoid being in the same room as him.
Our daughter went upstairs to get a toy to take with her to daddy's and he stood in the doorway of my kitchen and said "I want to talk to you". I said "No, if you have something you need to discuss with me, please put it in writing." He rose his voice at told me angrily, "I am not putting it in writing, stop being such a baby". "I tried to ignore him but he started in again with more demands that I have a conversation with him and a few more names for my refusal to do so, in an even louder voice.
I told him he would have to wait outside since he wasn't respecting my home. He refused and instead brought out his phone and proceeded to begin taping me. I told him again to leave and wait outside. When he refused, I took his phone and placed in on the front step outside of my home. When I turned around, he was blocking the entry to my home accusing me of assaulting him for taking the phone out of his hand.
I told him to step aside, he refused so I did push past him (yeah, that was assault). I turned a few steps into my home to face the door and he had taken steps to keep up to me and hovered over me with his finger in my face yelling at me (I am 5.5, he is 6.2). At that point, our daughter came back downstairs and immediately started to cry. I went to her immediately, while he resumed his videotaping of the incident from inside my home.
Fortunately, my neighbour came over and ordered him to wait outside and helped me to calm our daughter down. He meanwhile was standing on the front steps, continuing to tape through the door, I left my daughter to close the inside front door and he moved to my kitchen window. I left my daughter again to close the blinds and close the kitchen window. Once I had managed to calm our daughter down, I handed her off to my neighbour along with the communication book I was trying to implement. He refused to take it, but returned moments later to demand it, leaving our daughter alone in the car, at the far end of the parking lot. I gave it to him and he left screaming to my neighbourhood what a biatch I was, that I was an emotionally unstable unfit mother, then began calling my house (13 times that evening in total, leaving 4 nasty voice mails threatening to fill up my voice mail so my clients couldn't leave a message until I talked to him) and finally ended his evening at 8:30 ringing my doorbell and leaving the communication book on the step.
Would it put your time with your daughter in jeopardy or his?
Most definately his, not mine. I have documented evidence that I have been doing what is in the best interests of my child every step of the way and CAS files that back that up as well.
It seems like your ex thinks he has you between a rock and a hard place where he can treat you however he wants because you are powerless to do anything about it. But is there anything that gives you that kind of power over him? For example, is his worst fear that you could take his daughter away from him (not that you would)?
If you are suggesting I get down into the mud with him and play dirty hardball, I will simply never stoop there. All I want is for him to deal with his anger/resentment towards me and MOVE ON and focus on being a good father to his daughter and HIS life, not mine....... As I told the CAS worker, his arrogance will be his undoing....if you give someone like him enough rope, they eventually hang themselves with it. I cannot afford to think about this through emotion alone, I have to use my logical brain far more and find another way to deal with the emotions that at time envelop me. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 11:19:36 AM |
Future you are a parent.....think about all the discussions you have with your husband about how to deal with your child.....those are the things that I think still need to be discussed. Four year olds are still learning about the world and their place within it and need consistency in the messaging from their parents. Now imagine for a moment, that there was no communication with that other parent AND that you didn't see your child for one week at a time....how effectively do you truly believe you could parent that child? If that is truly what happens with our daughter, then I will rise to that challenge and parent her to the best of my ability, but nobody can say that it is in the best interests of a child to have this type of situation.
Wow, I had no idea that shared parenting was basically like living together or married parenting, but in 2 different households. I cannot even comprehend how that could work, especially where the adults have such a contentious relationship. The reason I say this is that this is one of the most difficult areas to negotiate between married couples who love and respect one another.
Here's what I envisioned it was like: You had her for 1/2 the time and what happened in your home was your business, and the same with your ex. Of course, it never occurred to me that he was still hitting his daughter, especially after all then occurred the last time (spanking event). I don't think I could stay sane if I had to worry about my 4 year old being hit (even just on the hand, etc,) every other week, month after month.
At the time you first introduced me to the concept of shared parenting, I read a bit about it. I think I even shared some articles with you. Most of them said this relationship fails more often than it succeeds, and the reason is the deterioration of the relationship between the adults. Now that I understand more about it, it does seem like it would take a herculean effort to make this work and that is between adults who respect one another. While you are obviously capable of that, unfortunately your ex is not, and I don't think it would matter who the other parent was, you or anyone else.
I told him to step aside, he refused so I did push past him (yeah, that was assault). I turned a few steps into my home to face the door and he had taken steps to keep up to me and hovered over me with his finger in my face yelling at me (I am 5.5, he is 6.2). At that point, our daughter came back downstairs and immediately started to cry. I went to her immediately, while he resumed his videotaping of the incident from inside my home.
Why was he videotaping this? Oh I get it, he cannot even understand that HE caused this crisis, can he?
My own personal opinion is that if this happens often, your ex isn't capable of shared parenting and his behavior makes this type of relationship NOT in the best interest of your daughter. If he cannot control himself, his custody should be less than half, at the least.
Whatever custody arrangement which would make it so that he has no say in what you do with her when you have her, and what he does with her would be over such a small amount of time that it doesn't have to be discussed at length with you, would probably work better. | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 11:48:57 AM |
Wow, I had no idea that shared parenting was basically like living together or married parenting, but in 2 different households. I cannot even comprehend how that could work, especially where the adults have such a contentious relationship. The reason I say this is that this is one of the most difficult areas to negotiate between married couples who love and respect one another.
This is the ideal situation and easily achievable with two mature adults both capable of putting the child ahead of their own issues with the other parent. Made very easy when two people still respect each other. I've experienced a lot of this style between us and sadly too much of the other side.....that is the struggle whether or not to throw in the towel on the dream.
Why was he videotaping this? Oh I get it, he cannot even understand that HE caused this crisis, can he?
If he can, he will never admit it to anyone, not our counsellor, not to the social worker and certainly never to me.
My own personal opinion is that if this happens often, your ex isn't capable of shared parenting and his behavior makes this type of relationship NOT in the best interest of your daughter. If he cannot control himself, his custody should be less than half, at the least.
That is something that has yet to be proven.....more courts are awarding joint physical "parallel parenting"...our agreement is a joint physical "cooperative" agreement. That is the section that would need to be amended to "force" legally the communication book and restrict verbal/physical contact to emergency situations only. Perhaps your research stumbled upon the parallel model, not the cooperative model.
Whatever custody arrangement which would make it so that he has no say in what you do with her when you have her, and what he does with her would be over such a small amount of time that it doesn't have to be discussed at length with you, would probably work better.
Best for whom is the million dollar question. Best for me, absolutely. Best for him, definately not. Best for our daughter, for whom we do all this? I don't know and until I know for sure.....I am in limbo.....
Before we go there, I would really rather have a parallel model in effect so I am considering working on the paperwork, updating it so I can file it......that is where I am leaning. This has been coming for about six months so I am prepared financially to do it, I'm still somewhat weak on the emotional side out of fear of reprecussions from him visited upon our daughter. I am not in their house like a fly on the wall so anything I think "might" be happening is speculation until there is evidence. I hate thinking that way, but that is the way the courts see it especially when a child has lived in joint physical from 10 months to 4 years of age....it would have to be much more than parents can't get along to change it. It is also the ONLY way I can maintain my sanity.
It helps to know that others like carolann and her children and lived through it and survived it, sometimes that is just the way these things go.... | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 12:27:42 PM | Big surprise your ex is a hot head like you. With your history stress is not a good thing (remember three times is the charm) and some of this back and forth you two have going on has to be rubbing off on the child and that is just not good. As I read this like I tend to say "there are all ways two sides and here we have only gotten one". If your ex was to read this and post his thoughts bet it would be different then your thoughts are on this. That said you two should limit contact to include conversation by phone.
"The other option I have is to allow him to follow through on his threat not to share information about our daughter with me."
How about you two do that, better yet don't talk to each other at all. Pick up drop off times should have been set in the court documents, if not they should be. Pick up drop offs do not even need to happen at the homes. I have seen court orders were they take place in the police station parking lot or building, because the ex's can't act like grown ups. How much info is there on a four year old you need to talk about any way? If there is a real issue, medical or the like provide coppies of the paperwork. He should block your number and you should block his. If any one called my house 20-30 time in a row it would be blocked that day. When the child is a few years older a cell phone might be nice until then with a 50/50 split no more is needed.
I talk to my ex only about her visits she takes the kids one day about every two weeks, but changes or calls to say she can not make it often. I keep a calendar and give her possible different visit days (I do not have to do this, but I try to provide visit times for her) if she calls off a visit. If one fits I pen it in if not I say your next visit is on this date see you then, please call early if you can't make it. I provide her coppies of report cards and other then that we do not talk, there is no need. By not letting her bring up anything other then pick up or drop off times, I aviod fights. It took a bit before she understood she could no longer ask me about who I was dating or the like, but I stayed firm and if she drifted and ask something not about pick up drop off I would simply say we are done talking. Once she understood the rule and knew I would not change on it she followed it for the most part. I did not have to block her from calling my home, but let her know I would, when she called three time in a row (not 20). This has not happened again, because she knows I will block her number NP. I have caller ID and when she calls the kids take it, not me. This has worked well for me and the kids never see me mad at their mom, because I will not go down that road. I just say, not talking to her thanks, if the kids say mom wants to ask you something.
If you can get your ex to take a look at this thread and post his thoughts on it. Thanks | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 12:41:28 PM | He's a bully and needs to be treated as such.
He has joint shared physical custody which should be followed to the letter but does not have the right to harass you. I would email him to communicate via email and no longer allow him in your home. Record and keep records of everything.
If it gets worse then get local law enforcement involved.  | |
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| Should I put up with it for the sake of our daughter, or not?
Posted: 6/24/2009 12:54:51 PM |
Today I was told for about the 100th time that everything is and always has been my fault, if I would only do this, or be this way, he wouldn't have to get angry with me and call me names and threaten me.
The latest fight was with respect to his use of physical punishment with her...she slapped him so he slapped her back to teach her not to hit. I personally find that hypocritical at worse and abusive towards a child he has already spanked to the point of bruising her in the past. He seems to want me to tell him it is ok and I simply cannot do that.
Didn't he already learn that hitting is not acceptable based on past experience? Why does he insist that you say it is ok? Is he afraid that if you do not verbalize your approval, that you might call child protective services (or whatever they are called) again?
So with that bit of history, I am wondering if anyone has any words of advice for me in terms of whether or not I should take that step into the court system and whether or not you feel that I should just "suck it up" as he tells me I should for the benefit of our daughter. By sucking it up, I could ensure that we were able to share information between the homes, which we can do for the most part without too much difficulty. The other option I have is to allow him to follow through on his threat not to share information about our daughter with me.
What is the difference between not sharing information and parallel parenting? Is it that parallel parenting has information written down, and not sharing information is basically just nothing, no agreements whatsoever?
I have one card I could play that I have not wanted to play because it is extreme in that it would put it out on record in court documents that we cannot get along. What I am speaking of here is a parallel parenting order whereby all communication between us is in writing. Sadly, I know that even with a court order, he will refuse to participate out of spite because he doesn't like having anything forced on him. That will lead to my having to return to court and seek resolution that could eventually put our custody arrangement in jeopardy.
I don't see why your ex would object to parallel parenting. I realize it's not ideal, but maybe it wouldn't have to be that way forever, just long enough for the two of you to cool down and relax a little? | |
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