| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/27/2009 11:50:58 PM | Somehow, I found a thread started back in 2005. The topic was interesting to me, so I read on. I evetually came to a post which stated the following.
"No abortion, No adoption! You've made your bed..."
This really got my attention. I don't get it. Maybe some friends here can help me understand why someone would feel that both abortion and adoption are wrong and that a woman must raise a child from an unplanned pregnancy.
It seems to me that someone not ready to be a parent, not ready to give it their all should not be "forced" or even coerced into parenthood. I know there are others among you who feel differently. Could you please explain this to me? | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/27/2009 11:53:59 PM | The idea of not being forced or coerced into parenthood... it can be applied to men too?
Edit below: I still remember the day - Jan 22, 1973- when it was decided that consent to sex doesn't mean consent to parenthood... with the exception to the other gender. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:07:36 AM | Excellent question Cubanguy, which implies that two are responsible, yet only one decides the outcome.
Anyone who has sex without understanding it's consequences is terribly stupid.
Stupid people shouldn't breed. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:28:00 AM | Parenthood is impossible without sex. Don't want to risk it? Your choice.
Anyone that is not ready to be a parent should take a moment to consider the possible consequences before taking their pants off.
Sometimes birth control fails, what happens next? Discuss. Preferably before an unplanned pregnancy.
guys: don't want to be 'trapped'? Look after your sperm. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:41:08 AM | Interesting!
In understand the ins and outs of the abortion debate - but I don't for the life of me understand why anyone would be against adoption! Many people in my family have been adopted (a freaky number - including my grandfather), everyone was open about it from the get-go, and not one of them have even had the desire to know anything about their biological parents (at least minimal information is available in all cases... save my grandfather).
Giving your child up for adoption in this western society where there are MANY parents who are wanting to share their life with it and provide for it is a gift. A beautiful gift. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 1:25:24 AM | Ahhhhh yes, the bitterment of men who feel they should be able to dictate that a woman gets an abortion, because he didn't want the pregnancy....
I suppose until an actual man has to decide what type of potential damage may come from having an abortion on their body, they will not understand the implications..
I had two children as a young woman, the one father put demands of IF I LOVED HIM, that a baby would be a great thing... He dumped me for a woman that was in her late 30's, and I was tender 21 yr old... I was raced with christian dogma being pounded in my head, that sexual feelings weren't felt unless the two were married... My foster parents REFUSED to allow me to take sex ed classes, so I was pretty much on my own as to figure out how to deal with human sexuality... The worst part is, that I was told that if I were to get on the pill, that I would be licensing myself for sex... NICE.....
With my oldest I was beaten over the head that I needed to put her up for adoption, because as a 19 yr old I had NOTHING to offer her... To this day I am forever grateful for the adult friend I had that said, If I could walk out of the hospital doors without looking back then do it, but if not to take my baby home....
I had to call my foster mom and ask her if it would be ok... SHE was soooooo delighted, even though before she pushed the hardest for me to put my daughter up for adoption...
My oldest is 25, and is still my foster moms favorite grandchild...
I met plenty of young gals that put their babies up for adoption... I also met many that should have done their baby that favor, because parenthood was the last thing they needed to pretend they could pull off...
To be able to put your child up for adoption to loving parents IS a hard choice, and one that IS done with thought for their child...
My two are raised adults doing well in their life... Sometimes NOT because i was the best mum they could have had... HOWEVER my oldest has told me OFTEN she is glad I never gave her up for adoption, and despite how hard things were in her younger years, she is glad I was her mom...
Personally I think unless that person is walking in that girls shoes there is no place for them to speak... | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 1:52:23 AM | I don't advocate for the overturn of Wade v Roe ruling, nor pretend to "dictate" women's life.
I do advocate for Wade v Roe for men, as to be granted equal protection under the law about my reproductive rights and a choice to be father or not, when I want.
Same as women have, instead being forced to finance their personal choice by autocratic decision. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 3:43:27 AM | I think the time to argue about whether or not you want to finance a woman's choice to have a child that you've impregnated her with is BEFORE you impregnate her, not after. Seems to me that you and she have forfeited your rights to argue about what happens next once you've created the baby. When you've created the child, you both have to live with the responsibility and financial/legal consequences of doing so, ethically speaking, imo.
Having the right to decide to kill off your "mistake" is barbaric, uncivilized, and does not take into account the life you've created, who, imo, has a right to a life as much as you do, at that point.
Unfortunately, the law doesn't see it my way but I have very little sympathy for anyone crying about their rights when they could care less about the life of their own baby that they willingly took the risk of creating when they determined to engage in sexual intercourse, knowing the risks they were taking. Let's face it, we aren't living in the dark ages anymore; sex ed is taught in schools when kids are ten years old these days. Ignorance just doesn't fly anymore in this day and age.
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 3:59:30 AM |
I do advocate for Wade v Roe for men, as to be granted equal protection under the law about my reproductive rights and a choice to be father or not, when I want.
Same as women have, instead being forced to finance their personal choice by autocratic decision.
The complication with this is that women physically endure the 9 months of pregnancy or the physical and emotional impact of abortion. Men can never claim that level of participation, because it's physically impossible. Therefore, whether a woman carries a child to term must ultimately be her decision.
However, I do agree that there could be some blanket regulations concerning unplanned pregnancies that would have the best interests of the child in mind and keep the parents out of court at a time when they should be worried about the child (a scenario for when 2 people are not living with each other):
1. Emotional investment: The child has the right to see both parents and should be born with the right to see each parent 50% of the time unless one of them proves abusive to the child.
2. Both parents would be responsible for the financial upbringing of the child. With the 50%/50% time arrangement, no money would need to change hands, since both would cover expenses while they are in charge of the child, except for large expenses that would need to be shared. If one parent makes a lot more money than the other, then an agreement would be necessary to decide whether that parents provides child support payments to the other parent to ensure a minimal standard of living at the two homes.
3. If one of the parties does not wish to participate in the emotional upbringing of the child, then they would still have to contribute financially to its upbringing.
At least in this scenario, the father would by default have equal rights to the child when the child is born. Before that point, the woman does have the ultimate decision. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 5:02:19 AM | I can seem to understand why some of us want to lump all people into one catagory.
You are either responsible or not, youre a good parent or not, your smart or stupid.
When trying to catagorizing people, think of a line in which we fall on at one point or another...there is the supersmart and the not so smart...I fall somewhere in the middle. There is the most rightous and the people that act towards others with malice.
So no matter how you would like people to behave, people are human and and not going to follow your way of thinking...that means you will have to pay for poeple's mistakes; That is part of living in a free society.
I cant understand why most posters seem content to just give their opinion, which is ok, but try mixing in a proposed solution... If your just complaining and not offering ideas, then your just adding to the noise...
OP I dont know why you brought up this thought, as it was the response of ONE poster...I have a feeling, it just going to turn into yet another abortion thread... | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 7:55:39 AM |
I think the time to argue about whether or not you want to finance a woman's choice to have a child that you've impregnated her with is BEFORE you impregnate her, not after. Seems to me that you and she have forfeited your rights to argue about what happens next once you've created the baby. When you've created the child, you both have to live with the responsibility and financial/legal consequences of doing so, ethically speaking, imo.
well stated
whatever happened to the cliche 'look before you leap'
our society seems to have become very casual and careless about sex and irresponsible, sometimes downright nasty, when it comes time to looking after subsequent children. For a man to say 'I don't want to pay just because I don't have the right to kill it' is scary. Would you really kill the baby/fetus/bundle of cells if it were your choice? It's impossible to determine because it's impossible for a man to be pregnant.
Whatever your gender, it's abhorrent to refuse responsibility because you 'don't feel ready' to be a parent. If you contribute your dna; you ARE a parent, like it or not.
psst...chances are your parents did not carefully plan the pregnancy that was you. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:30:45 AM | | If your not ready to be a parent then you should not being doing what it takes to be one. It is SO easy to obtain birth control now that it's rediculous. Avoiding pregnancy is about as easy as it gets. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:32:43 AM |
"No abortion, No adoption! You've made your bed....."
This is not true. The person who WROTE this is trying to make someone's ELSE'S bed.
They are trying to do this by taking away the adoption and abortion options.
It is all about controlling women and their behaviors.
Our own lives frustrate us so much, we try to control everyone else's. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:36:43 AM | No abortion or adoption ?
Okay , I understand the sentiment but it doesn't really make much sense.
I get it...."Take responsibility !" is the basic message and I don't think that that's a bad idea of course. Who could ? All the same , we , as a society, simply have to acknowledge that not everybody is in a position to be a parent and forcing them to be one isn't necessarily a good idea either.
I'm against abortion (nothing to do with religion) but it's legal and I'm not interested in arguing about it. Adoption on the other hand...well what's wrong with that ? We take a child from somebody who KNOWS they aren't going to be a good parent and give it to somebody who WANTS to be a good parent. What's the problem with that ? | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:50:30 AM | The idea that adults should be responsible for their behavior is a good one. We have become a society of victims who always find someone else to blame.
"No abortion, No adoption! You've made your bed..."
The problem with this idea is it forgets that in this situation there is a living child involved who deserves loving and responsible parents. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 9:06:33 AM | @ rocinante, what about teenage pregnancy? rape victims?
I believe sexually active teenagers have voluntarily bumped themselves up to adult status and should behave accordingly.
Rape victims? out of my experience, thank God. It's impossible for me to know and I have only compassion for their experience and recovery.
I'm actually pro-choice with awareness that abortion affects both parents for life. Not a decision to be made lightly for sure.
Adoption? All for it. Giving up your flesh and blood because you believe another family can better provide is not easy and a blessed gift. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 9:38:24 AM | Rape victims? out of my experience, thank God. It's impossible for me to know and I have only compassion for their experience and recovery.
But not for men who want to stop and flush their life down the toilet?
For me children are a symbol of dedication.
Sex should be a mutual decision, and so should the conception of children be a mutual decision!
Thank you OP, completely agree with your sentiments! | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 10:13:01 AM | Ahhhhh yes, the bitterment of men who feel they should be able to dictate that a woman gets an abortion, because he didn't want the pregnancy....
The complication with this is that women physically endure the 9 months of pregnancy or the physical and emotional impact of abortion. Men can never claim that level of participation, because it's physically impossible. Therefore, whether a woman carries a child to term must ultimately be her decision.
I love how people often think that men should just be taken completely outof the picture because of a few bad apples who spoiled their taco.
I'm so completely tired of it. It absolutely makes me sick. Believe it or not, there are some decent men out here. If you'd stop going after the bad ones, then you wouldn't have such low opinions of men.
WOMEN CAN HAVE THE ENTIRE ABORTION ARGUMENT TO THEMSELVES WHEN THEY BECOME ASEXUAL.
Ok, now that that is off my chest, I do think the original statement is really a bad statement. My position on abortion is that I am pro-choice, but I hope the choice is life. I believe that adoption is the better choice, but I also don't believe that I should tell people how to live their values and morals. There are a lot of people out there who want to adopt and would be excellent parents. I know several families like this. It's wonderful. If I were in the position to do the same, I absolutely would adopt. I think the original statement is completely assinine and very sort sighted. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 10:23:50 AM |
I also don't believe that I should tell people how to live their values and morals.
Unfortunately, some of the people making these decisions have questionable morals and values at best. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 10:57:48 AM |
But not for men who want to stop and flush their life down the toilet?
Do you mean men who want their partner to have an abortion? Are we talking about suicide? Not trying to be obtuse, just not following. | |
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astock
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Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 23 | |
| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:28:21 AM | | OP i totally agree with no abortion no adoption. i have 2 wonderful children and i was adopted. and i don't care what any person anywhere says under any circumstances abortion is wrong. i will never associate with a woman that had one much less date or marry, that just shows immaturity as does adoption, because eventually that child will wonder why mommy and daddy didn't want them which leads to years of therapy, trust me i've lived through it. i say if you wanna have kids you keep your kids and if you don't wanna have them dont have sex. simple as that | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:26:31 PM |
OP i totally agree with no abortion no adoption. i have 2 wonderful children and i was adopted. and i don't care what any person anywhere says under any circumstances abortion is wrong. i will never associate with a woman that had one much less date or marry, that just shows immaturity as does adoption, because eventually that child will wonder why mommy and daddy didn't want them which leads to years of therapy, trust me i've lived through it. i say if you wanna have kids you keep your kids and if you don't wanna have them dont have sex. simple as that
maybe you had bad parents, maybe they died? Life happens, and it happens completely disreguardless of your religion or politics! | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:31:42 PM |
But not for men who want to stop and flush their life down the toilet? Do you mean men who want their partner to have an abortion? Are we talking about suicide? Not trying to be obtuse, just not following.
No easy way to say this, I mean men (or women for that matter) who don't want their children thinking they were a regret.
I was brought up in a stable family by two loving parents! | |
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