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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 5:14:11 PM | Over the past few years the concept of politics has been troubling me.
Why do we really need to elect a group of beaurocrats that upon advertisement, we think closest interpret our thoughts onto statutes and laws?
Why can't I vote on what effects me directly? An argument from someone could be that due to other commitments and time, they would prefer someone else to make those important choices for them, but I am still left begging the question what about me? What about my choices on each and every issue that concerns me?
At first I would doubt my argument by classing it as selfish, but the more I think about it, the more I understand that the disillusionment is amongst nearly everybody I meet. The inherent struggle I would describe as utopia and collective freedom vs. dystopia and superfluous freedom; imposed choices by a few.
The last thing I would prescribe is to riot for your freedom, as through past the the term of instability it would most definitely cause, at best the vacuum of power would only bring forward a different set of disguises. Things must evolve via current local constitutional rules.
When you think something is wrong or not quite right, do you not act on it to make the correction?
"One day one will be many, and everyone will stand up and offer people true freedom, they will dispense with choices imposed by the few."(...sir, would you like any pickle with your cheese?)
Why can't we not only vote on each law, but even collectively dictate the law to be debated by secure encrypted e-mail? Why not by phone or text?
I think therefore I am? No, I think, I act, I make decisions, I choose; therefore I am.
I am not a socialist, not a conservative or of middle way, I am an individual and so are the other 6,763,556,999 people on this globe. Stand up and defend your right of being, of collective choice...think, act, decide, choose....live
With time, is a worldwide revolution inevitable ? We are ever increasingly collectively uprising against many forms of oppression... will we ever see an uprise against politics itself?
A simplified version of the above would be:
If politics is an oppression, and all oppressions have eventually lead to revolution, how long will it be before we experience a true political revolution? | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 6:15:58 PM | Hmm...take a look at "American Idol"...now tell me that the technology does NOT exist for "town hall meettings" where people can vote across the state or province for or against various laws.
They got more votes ona friggin game show than what politics does...which shows the low level of peoples thinking. "Politics doesn't concern me...I'm not interested"...yet it affects them evry day of their life! Taxes, what is done with them, gov't aid, war...anything today IS affected by politics...yet we have these idiots running around thinking it has nothing to do with them.
then they wonder "Where is MY freedoms"? You didn't bother standing up for them...and lost them....real simple....now the "civil masters" are in control...and you are paying for it. Enjoy the ride! | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 6:28:49 PM | Politics is an oppression?
To think of a world with no politics is truely the oppression. That is to say, if we understand politics as the process in which a particular content stands in for the emptiness of the universal. This would be the process of hegemony. A decision made within a terrain of undecidability. Now we can follow Gramsci and make a fundamental distinction between the war of position and the war of maneouver. However, I would think that a revolution, the inevitability of a violent revolution initiated by a privliged group within our social imaginary should now be rendered obsolete. The dream of a self-reflexive, harmonious society arrived at following the conclusion of the dialectical process ought to be abandoned. For such a dream negates a constitutive element of our being, antagonism, that is the real (limit) of society, in Lacanian terms. Rather, we should think in terms of obtaining hegemony, radicalizing liberal democratic institutions, creating 'chains of equivalence' so that our interests may be understood as common sense. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 6:29:13 PM | You had me for a while and then you went off on a tangent. If you're suggesting that you be able to vote on every single little thing that would require a consensus, how long do you think it would be until absolutely nothing got done?
How "involved" do you think people are really inclined to be in the political process? The fact is, you'd get a very few having most of the input and making the lions share of the decisions...the only difference between that and what we have now is we actually elected the few we have making the decisions.
Say goodbye to accountability.
I think it was Winston Churchill who observed that democracy is the worst form of government, except when you compare it to all the others. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 6:44:27 PM | I think revolution is inevitable but not for the reasons you mention in your post op. I read this ancient chinese dynastic political philosophy that seemed to sum up pretty good (less the religious insertions) why revolution is inevitable. It's due to our human nature and actually has survival benefits.
Humans are happiest when they are free, involved, and building towards something. But an apex is eventually reached in this cycle. Then begins a post-apex cycle where you start to see corruption, increasing gaps between the leadership and the poor, and more stringent laws to maintain control. Once this cycle reaches its apex, there is revolution and we overthrow the powers at be and start over. Through this process our society evolves in a way it could not evolve before because you can't make major change without destruction of the old first.
As discussed in other threads, there are reasons you can't vote on every law and that is you could negatively impact a minority or long term goals due to your own shortcomings and biases. It is important to make informed choices when you are dealing with things which will impact others so have to think beyond your wants.
For example, you may not "like" the welfare system but to remove it would cause other issues that I'm betting you wouldn't like a lot more. It also doesn't address the real issues going on.
People are easily manipulated as it is and the only thing protecting them from themselves are systems of checks and balances. When a system becomes corrupted, it throws off these checks and balances just as bad as if we gave uninformed individuals the right to vote on every topic. We are not all the same and not just in an outward physical appearance. Genetic tests shows that Scandinavian men tend to be more aggressive than Inuit men. Due to this, they will solve their problems differently and without consideration, the way one solves their problems it could cause problems for another.
My personal belief is that you won't see humans do anything to stop the cycle because the cycle has not yet reached that point where they are programmed to act. To act sooner would not allow enough of the bad things to happen that need to in order to facilitate change. I see this as a natural evolution of sorts. The best way to learn is from your mistakes and you need to feel the impact of those mistakes to change. Mistakes in nature can last a very long time until their vulnerabilities get the best of them.
You could probably measure where we are at in this cycle by comparing the levels of corruption and income gaps globally to levels of corruption on a smaller scale prior to revolution. What were the conditions prior to revolution? You will see:
1. The income gap of course
2. Government corruption
3. Poor social systems
4. Control pooling to a certain level in society
5. Lack of resources and opportunity
6. A catalyst to tip the scales of an already vulnerable society. Its when your quality of life gets so bad that there is now nothing left to lose that we are vulnerable to that catalyst. Revolution occurs when the systems need to be rewritten and it won't happen without regime change.
We have a lot of the criteria globally now but not the severity nor the catalyst to tip the scales for revolution. Right now, we are just a society very close to being vulnerable to a catalyst. Due to globalization, its not just one or two countries vulnerable, but all of us. So a global revolution is inevitable at some point if political theory holds true. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 6:52:40 PM | "If you're suggesting that you be able to vote on every single little thing that would require a consensus, how long do you think it would be until absolutely nothing got done?"
That is a strong point stargazer, however can we not deduce that citizens who voted for a certain law are those who have an opinion, and those that do not oppose are just willing to be led by the others which is what happens now.
As for getting anything done, nearly everybody has a mobile phone, an idea for speed would be via a registered mobile number for every voter, and a time period of a month to debate the subject and amend, maybe on forums not too dissimilar to this, then voting for, against, or just abstaining because you don't care, or you have better things to do than decide what laws you will be governed by.
What do you think? | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 7:05:50 PM | Umm have you seen some of the responses posted in this forum?
That is a strong point stargazer, however can we not deduce that citizens who voted for a certain law are those who have an opinion, and those that do not oppose are just willing to be led by the others which is what happens now.
Don't mistake what people do in cliques with how they vote. Those that are not opposed tend not to vote nor get organized to campaign against an idea they are in support of.
That became glaringly apparent when the majority of the population in the province I live in supported Sunday shopping but those opposed (mostly religious groups) got organized, campaigned against it and ensured people voted on the opposing side. Those who were not opposed just figured it would pass so most never bothered to vote. To oppose it was just silly so it didn't occur that any others but handful of extremists would.
In the end, the government had to overturn the vote because it was not representative of what was good for the province nor its population's actual wants.
Basically, by giving people the power to vote, they wasted a lot of time and money.
Edit: PS, government is often the last to upgrade because its considering fiscally irresponsible to be on the cutting edge of technology. So what business can achieve through technology would be an unrealistic expectation of government. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 7:10:17 PM | "We have a lot of the criteria globally now but not the severity nor the catalyst to tip the scales for revolution. Right now, we are just a society very close to being vulnerable to a catalyst. Due to globalization, its not just one or two countries vulnerable, but all of us. So a global revolution is inevitable at some point if political theory holds true."
GGarbo::::
Reading your analysis I agree with all of your premises (it's also well written).
Pleasantries aside, do you not think that this catalyst would be a combination of two things.
1. Aren't Revolutions caused by your premises but born out of radical, new/recycled ideals or movements?
2. Do you not think that as long as the basis of the radical ideal or movement is logically correct, that there is a chance via the global reach, and power of the internet makes an ideal catalyst to spread this movement across the globe?
To any global government agencies reading this: This is all just philosophical, I have no plans to carry out the above, I am happy with my life. ;D | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 7:21:29 PM | GGarbo: I am an atheist so I morally agree that your decision should of not been taken upon religious beliefs, but however much of a moral dilemma, the people who cared made their choice (maybe it was a good lesson for your non-church going townsfolk, you cannot be lazy and expect everything to fall into place.)
None-the-less it is a good point, maybe there should be 2 rounds of voting to pass any bill/law/statute just like we have in England in the House of Commons and House of Lords or in the USA Senate and Representatives etc | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:07:28 PM | I see a global revolution as being only decades away (probably less). I think we are finally going to see a global society of anarchists, under the jurisdiction of natural law and fundamental justice, cooperating to produce most effectively thru the mechanism of direct democracy.
I don't now yet if the revolution will be peaceful or bloody, but I see it coming... | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/29/2009 3:55:30 AM | | It's gonna happen. We just never had the technology to vote all that quickly on a range of issues until recently. It's not been all that long that the internet has been in public use, say since 1995. That's only 14 years. You have to give it more time, until it sinks in to people, that they CAN vote via the internet. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/29/2009 5:26:44 AM | | It's likely that some people will promote the idea, and everyone else will squash them like bugs. To have a revolution takes having a bunch of oppressed people who are too stupid to know better being led by a few educated people who are intent on becoming the new tyrants. I don't think there can be a world revolution. World war seems to be how discontent becomes organized mayhem on a large scale. Maybe if you had a world government there would be a world revolution. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 6:00:14 AM |
Maybe if you had a world government there would be a world revolution.
We do...and there will be. The common man is awakening and is getting angrier as his eyes open. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 6:27:36 AM |
As for getting anything done, nearly everybody has a mobile phone, an idea for speed would be via a registered mobile number for every voter, and a time period of a month to debate the subject and amend, maybe on forums not too dissimilar to this, then voting for, against, or just abstaining because you don't care, or you have better things to do than decide what laws you will be governed by.
Again, the issue is how often are you going to do a referendum? On every issue? Only the "big" issues? What about those who think a little issue should be a big issue? How about those who can't access the system because of a computer glitch?
Also, consider that voting rates are usually what? 30 or 35 per cent? That mean 65 to 70 per cent of the populace are not disengaged.
What does that do for the idea of "revolution?" Small revolutions on a country-wide scale? Sure. World wide? Doubt it. You have to have unity of intent, unity of purpose and unity of belief. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 7:52:25 AM | "Why can't I vote on what effects me directly?"
The founding fathers put alot of thought into this, its why we have a republic and not a democracy.
You see exactly what happens with california when you give people the power to vote directly...the majority votes themselves more and more "goodies" and quickly the entire system is totally bankrupt.
While it might be good for social issues, it would be an economic disaster for any type of service or tax. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 2:37:24 PM |
65 to 70 per cent of the populace are not disengaged.
Not yet disengaged, but many are disenchanted; they just haven't yet realized that not voting or spoiling a ballot can be a much stronger vote for change than voting for the (perceived) lesser evil. It should soon dawn on people that the game of partisan politics is no more than a pro wrestling match where the voter gets to vote for the "good guy" & hopes the "bad guy" loses. It has taken awhile, but it's finally dawning on people that the match was scripted and choreographed long before the wrestlers entered the ring.
World wide? Doubt it. You have to have unity of intent, unity of purpose and unity of belief.
Unity of belief: "The government and its corporate arms oppress me with false authority and the unjust confiscation of the fruits of my labour, which is as often as not used against my conscience, my interests and my fellow man."
Unity of purpose: "All men are my brothers and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, should be considered capable and allowed to govern themselves. My obligation to my fellow man in any event, is to be his keeper, not his master and to strive to preserve his rights and freedoms, not to infringe on them."
Unity of intent: "I will stand against any entity, be it human or organizational, that unjustly claims authority over me or my fellow man."
These things, or something synonymous, could be said (and probably will be said) by enough individuals worldwide, under nearly all governments of the world, to start a worldwide revolt against the injustices perpetrated by governments and corporations all over the globe. All that will be required is the courage and determination to reject the false claims of authority made by the "plantation masters" of the world. The moment we realize that the "master" has less right to ownership of the plantation and its slaves than the slaves themselves, the slaves will ignore their master and run the plantation as free men, entitled to the fruits of their labour.
The human society that supercedes the existing governments, will form a government of its own, built on natural law and compassion, wherein all the rights of the individual are paramount and his one obligation will be to love his brothers and sisters all over the world. As John Lennon said...Imagine! | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 4:45:14 PM | Here, here, Just Dukky.
Maybe a good starting idea would be to actively reward unselfish-love as a mirror of how we currently imprison those that do society harm. Maybe more carrots would lead to less stick?
Lets face it, prisons are brimming, kids have totally lost respect, school stabbings are at an all time high; we are on a slippery slope of social decline and as for our beloved planet earth, just how many more generations of selfish decay will it take for it to be too late?
Every day that passes with us turning a blind eye to this downward slide the exit gets harder... I'm not underestimating the mountain of problems we will come across, but i am talking about saving the human race from eventual social and environmental destruction, maybe even extinction!
Yes folks don't laugh but that is where this slippery slope eventually ends up...extinction. Tackling this slide is going to be not too dissimilar to comparing the human race to the mouse that got caught in the milk bucket. Do we just float in the milk hoping for the best, or do we work hard until we turn it into butter and walk out of it stronger?
Maybe no hero, no individual is a large enough catalyst for change... maybe the eventual recognition of extinction will be the only catalyst strong enough to make us unite and realise what we currently class as wealth is fake, terminal, finite. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 5:42:50 PM | | hi.. Christian Prophesy that aligns with the Bible says that the USA will pass religious laws forcing people to worship on one day and to work for their means the other six.. prophesy further predicts that the ~"whole world will worship the beast"~... not meaning every person in the whole world but that the world as a whole will buy into this form of government rule.... ~ "no one will be able to buy and sell without receiving the mark of the beast"~... the hand and the forehead in the Bible always refers to believing and acting on....based on the fact that I trust in The Bible, I do believe that things will happen on a global scale, I will even say that the Bible predicts that the whole world will unite under one banner.... of course the Bible predicts this banner to be lead by satan under the guise of Christianty when in fact it a plot to persecute Gods True Followers ... we have seen persecution on very large scales several times in history.. Roman destruction of Christians in arenas of death, burning at the stake for Christians in the Dark Ages and the more recent holocaust of Jewish people during Hitlers rein of terror... the bible writes ~"and the devil went out to make war against the remnant of her seed"~ remnant means a piece of the original cloth, not a counterfeit remake but that is for another thread.... I say yes to a global reaction.... blessings, warmly Mona | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:30:14 AM |
Maybe a good starting idea would be to actively reward unselfish-love
The revolution has already begun, but many don't yet see it. Like a job well done, unselfish love is its own reward. It really is true that (and I hate to refer to the bible) if you cast your bread on the waters, it will be returned sevenfold (approximately - I'd say the reward is closer to infinite).
Until we have given unselfishly of ourselves, with no hope of compensation or reward, we can never appreciate what we gain in doing so. However, everyone on this planet has in him the ability to be another Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi, Schweitzer, etc. In fact, we already are; most of us just don't know it yet. More people are waking up every day; soon it will reach critical mass. At that point, the tyrants and oppressors of the world had better watch out; there will be no place for them in the NEW "New World Order." They will be at our mercy and had better hope that we will be as fair and merciful as they should have been.
we work hard until we turn it into butter and walk out of it stronger
That excerpt from your question answers it.
what we currently class as wealth is fake, terminal, finite.
I sincerely hope it won't take the imminent threat of the extinction of the human race to realize that. People have been dumbed down for decades by the masters of society, but they surely can't be that stupid! | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:03:00 AM | Too many people are still saying "I'm only one man. What can I do?" The problem is, they think it's a rhetorical question.
Maybe it's time we started trying to answer it, secure in the knowledge that even one man has the power to change the world. All it takes is some courage.
Take my word for it; it will only take a few people to rebuild the world; after all, it only took a few to wreck it. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:28:19 PM | Leading words...Truly Leading.
This is another thing that bothers me; why don't people take charge of themselves and lead, instead of sitting around, looking about hopefully for someone to lead them? Not one of us should be sitting around doing that. Every single one of us should take charge and BE a leader!
We are not a herd of cattle; It's high time we stopped acting like one! Many of us have already walked away from the herd, not because we hate the leader, but because we don't need one and have often seen leaders take the herd off the edge of a cliff. There are many of us that you won't find in the stampede to the slaughterhouse. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:10:24 PM | I think it is (inevitable ).
I started to pay attention to "politics" at home when I was 8yo. At 13 I realized what you just wrote on you OP.
Since then I traveled all over the world and have seen this situation building steam worldwide. It isn't about "right wings", or "left wings". It's about the vast majority been subjected to the will of a few "elected" individuals (who are supposedly elected to take care of their property and administrate it) being controlled by the "elite".
In fact it started already, you may not be aware of it, because western media puts a "different name" (a more used term is "demonize it") to make people believe it's "something different". But if you go over the recent events taking place over the last couple decades, you'll see what you are talking about starting to take place in some places around the world. It hasn't still reach a point of "clear change". But it can be easily seen every day people involved (taking charge) of the situation with the intention to bring about a real change on the states of affairs on their areas. | |
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:10:28 PM | I believe that the revolution can be peaceful and be about lifestyle.
People need to rediscover the 'tribe'. We have been seperated into nuclear families (aptly named) which were supposed to operate independantly, and are failing. We need to develop a resource based economy. Treat the environment with utmost respect...
The revolution will not be televised.
The revolution will not happen when they tell us it is happening.
The revolution will happen quietly and unsuspectingly.
When we discover that we have changed our own lives, when we have aligned ourselves to our own values, and have encourged/observe/enjoyed others do the same.
At least that is what I hope.
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| Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:21:16 PM |
Lets face it, prisons are brimming, kids have totally lost respect, school stabbings are at an all time high
You can probably lay this at the feet of their parents and the schools and governments they influenced to create a "utopian" society without personal responsibility and without discipline. Without either, it is human nature that there will be many who take advantage of the naive or unresponsive remainder.
Humans are not a loving species - no species is. Success as a species requires a degree of selfishness, and in a utopian society, those whose glasses are the deepest shade of pink will be the most taken-advantage of.
It is also human nature to be lazy. Evolution demands that an individual, to be successful, guarantee his own success and that of his offspring, by gaining maximum reward for minimum expense. Why produce what you can take what someone else has produced? Again, this applies to every species. It also applies to voting. The vast majority won't involve themselves in understanding complex issues prior to voting, any more than they apply their brains to issues of science here in the PoF fora [meaning, virtually not-at-all].
We're better off without more ignorant votes, though we could stand for more informed ones. | |
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