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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:24:55 PM | I recently broke off seeing a guy because he had said he was 'divorced' on his profile, then two weeks into dating (which was going rather well!) I found out he was actually still married, and hadn't even filed yet, but his wife had left him five months ago! He asked for another chance, but I just couldn't give him one, I felt betrayed.
This is a touchy subject for me, as I was involved with a man before (who I actually married, my late husband) and I met him when he was separated... it was so hard emotionally, I swore, never again.
Plus, it seems so deceitful, to me, to start a relationship on those false pretenses... even when someone says they are divorced, but are really just separated, I feel like I'm being lied to! But it seems like 4 out of the last 5 guys I've been interested in on POF are exactly that... separated, but saying divorce on their profile. And I hate dating separated guys if there are kids involved... I don't want to be the one stopping a reconciliation, if one is possible!
Anyway, I only know that its starting to be 'normal' for guys to do this... don't know much about women, 'cause I'm not dating girls, but maybe they do this to? And why do people lie about this... do they think they can hide it forever? Do they think anyone with an ounce of self-respect will accept this deception?
Or am I really being over sensitive, and is this just part of the 'new age' of dating, filtering out the lies on the profile from the truth over time?
Thoughts? | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:29:37 PM | Why do people lie? Age old question and one I still have no answer for... then again I'm not a psychologist. I guess because being honest sets limitations.
We need something like Carfax for people... where you can call, submit their ID# and get a history report. :)
I don't blame you though... a lie sets a very bad premise when you consider the fact that everything in a relationship is built on trust. If love were a pyramid, Trust would certainly be the base everything stands upon. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:43:58 PM | | I chatted with a guy from this site a few times, his profile indicated he was divorced. After a few chats he admitted he was separated and had been for 6 years. He attempted to convince me that there was nothing between him and his wife. I asked him why they hadn't filed and he told me "we just haven't gotten around to it". Of course I didn't buy his drivel and dumped him. There is nothing to gain from lying so why do it? If a person is separated they're still married and thus not for me. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:00:51 PM | | its the stigma with separated. girls start cussing me out cuz I have that on my profile and they act like I shouldn't even be on here until I'm divorced. People don't realize how long divorces take, alot easier getting married than divorced. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:01:46 PM | | I don't think you're being too sensitive. Divorced has a finality about it. Separated still has A LOT of unfinished business to deal with!!!! I dated one man that wasn't divorced. He would stop by to pick up his son and he'd here his soon to be ex say. "Come in the bathroom I'm giving him a bath" When he'd walk in SHE'D be in the bath with her son and invite him to join them! She'd ask for sex because they were AFTER ALL still married! I felt like a counselor instead of a girlfriend! So ummmmmm I'll stick to truly single or divorced men! I also believe stated divorced when only separated is a lie. Just because someone feels divorced doesn't make it legal!!!! | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:31:38 PM | Nope....not too harsh at all!
I don't know if I would consider it 'normal' for any gender....I think for certain types of people it is a norm...but I certainly wouldn't classify it.
Lying is lying...if they lie on something simple..such as a profile...then yes, they probably will think nothing of lying in person.
Think of it as this...would it be a lie if they used a picture other than their own? Of course it is....how is this different? | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:39:06 PM | Hey
This is not the "new age" of dating or at least it should't be. I have dated a man who was separated for 2.5 yrs. He keps saying he wanted to get a divorce but didnt have the time. I told him it isnt something you do when you have spare time it is something you make a priority and make happen. I believe it is just an excuse not to more forward and they could always go back to the wife. The guy i was seeing never lied about it he was very honest but this was also a guy who said he was ready for a commitment and then broke up with me in an email, not impressed. So you be the judge on that but i think if you have to ask you already know the answer. Go with your gut instinct it is usually always right woman's intuition is there for a reason. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:00:56 AM | | You don't sound at all harsh to me. You sound reasonable, sane, compassionate, and deserving of a relationship with someone who, at the very least, knows how to tell the truth. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:23:46 AM | So now you've learned a lesson, you've had an experience.
What do you do with the experience?
Date who you want to date, but at least make some efforts to use PoF correctly- send emails, build a rapport, then ask them what they mean by "divorce" explaining your story above.
Are you someone who just sees a profile, accepts it, likes the photo, and goes on a date? You're not using the tool correctly. PoF is the tool- use it.
You have a PhD, so clearly you can count to potato, ask questions in advance- stop entering blindly into situations.
If you've had 4 out of 5 guys with this situation, and you haven't learned something by then (clearly you haven't, no offense, but you wouldn't be in the forums if you had), then something is wrong. Use PoF correctly.
Use PoF Correctly.
In closing- Use PoF Correctly.
P.S. Use PoF Correctly. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:56:20 AM | My experience online has been: If someone says they're divorced, it means the word came up once in a heated argument. If they say they're separated, it means "We're in separate rooms right now, and if I get caught online -- I'm dead!"
Safest approach is to assume married (or otherwise entangled) until proven single. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:29:05 AM | OP,
I think you are being pretty reasonable. There is a big difference between divorced and separated!
The only thing is that maybe YOU FEEL you are over reacting due to yr 1s hand experience.
I have a male friend I met here that is married and suddenly I read his profile saying he was everything from single, divorced and separated....I questioned him....he had not explanation.....there are tons of married men on POF ( and women), I truly do not see a reason as to why lie....
The truth will come afloat sooner than later. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:03:23 AM | Sorry to say that I think your judging all the books by one cover. A lie is never a good way to start a relationship for whatever reason. But I will say that there are people out there both male and female that have separated for whatever reason and will never get back together.
A divorce is a piece of paper no different to a marriage, it comes down to the person and what they feel as to how they stand on the situation.
I for one am separated, I have not seen my ex in over 12 months, I take care of my children and I am on this site, looking for female friends and more if it comes down to that. But I am not ashame I am not divorced as it takes time by law.
If I was asked; I am single and that is all there is to it. I love the company of a female who I can confide in and call my friend and be able to share the pleasure and harshness of life with.
If we went by your example then all the people out there who are separated have no right to finding a new start in there life until they have got a divorce. What a sad state of affairs that is, its like going back to when your parents had a curfew on you; and you were told that if anything happened you wouldn't see the light of day again.
Yes we live in a turmoiled world and life changes so fast, and we all have to adapt and move on for whatever reason, but to single a person out because of there status is like being racist and that is unacceptable in any standard.
Good luck to all the separated people who are truly looking for love and happiness; and for those people that have to lie about who or what they are to get a piece of ass; seriously grow up. | |
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RMH_84
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Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 14 | |
| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:05:22 AM | it depends of a lot of factors, but the fact is that he LIED. This is the issue.
My ex FIL was legally "seperated" for over 15 years before he actually got a devorce from my ex MIL. he was with a lady for most of this time, and they recently actually got married. in his case, the devorce was messey and both parties just avoided it as long as they possibly could! | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:11:36 AM | You have to be separated before you can be divorced... 
to some it may mean unfinished business to others it may be just the waiting time for ink to dry and the final piece of paper to be stamped by the court.
Unfortunately, you can't just go to the divorce court to get a divorce license, like you can to get a driver's license-if only it were that simple, married in the morning and divorced by 2:00 pm...just stand in line, pay the fee and smile for the camera...wait 2 mins and be handed a divorce....
OP wrote:
This is a touchy subject for me, as I was involved with a man before (who I actually married, my late husband) and I met him when he was separated... it was so hard emotionally, I swore, never again.
What was so hard emotionally since you married him?
Since you MARRIED him, obviously separation was the label he had to use before he could become DIVORCED so that you could MARRY him....it also indicates that he had finished his "business" with his prior wife and you then became his wife...
Wearing the label of DIVORCED doesn't always mean their business is finished, especially if they have children. I've known of cases where they did get divorced and then ended up getting re-married to each other...
I do agree, however, people should be honest about their "legal label" or their tax filing status... | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:34:39 AM |
So now you've learned a lesson, you've had an experience.
What do you do with the experience?
Date who you want to date, but at least make some efforts to use PoF correctly- send emails, build a rapport, then ask them what they mean by "divorce" explaining your story above.
Are you someone who just sees a profile, accepts it, likes the photo, and goes on a date? You're not using the tool correctly. PoF is the tool- use it.
You have a PhD, so clearly you can count to potato, ask questions in advance- stop entering blindly into situations.
If you've had 4 out of 5 guys with this situation, and you haven't learned something by then (clearly you haven't, no offense, but you wouldn't be in the forums if you had), then something is wrong. Use PoF correctly.
Use PoF Correctly.
In closing- Use PoF Correctly.
P.S. Use PoF Correctly.
So, let me see if I'm picking up your subtle hint... use POF correctly...?  Seriously, point taken... however, I will clarify, that the last three of the four, I did ask in an email, and then turned them down, after they did answer truthfully... It just seems sad that I have to clarify something that is out on a profile in black & white... seems like I'm cross-examining a defendant, instead of getting to know someone! (In my private life, I try to be less cynical than at work!)
But yes, indeed, lesson learned!  | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:04:53 AM | The important issue is the lie. The lie is wrong. This is not to condone the lie but rather explain it.
A vast amount of, primarily, women on these forums have stated they will not date "separated" only will date "divorced" hence the reason for the lie. A person might be a truley separated, no chance of reconciliation and wanting to move on. Aforementioned might feel a need to list "divorced" as too many state they will not even reply to someone who lists "separated". Therefore they see their only recourse as to lie about the status. Again not an excuse for what they do, it is lying, just an explanation.
Personally I choose to be honest and list my status. It greatly limits my possible connections, however the honesty is important to me.
Of note for you though is this:
Just as you feel listing "separated" is not what you want or that listing it might be dishonest as they may have unfinished business. Remember a truly dishonest person may list "divorced" and it be a complete lie. I might have more credibility in a listing of separated then divorced. A lie is a lie and once they go down that path what makes one assume they would lie about separated any more so than divorced?
If they are honest enough to list separated knowing it brings up possible questions and doubts, then perhaps they are showing honesty against the ease of a lie.
Why would you be against truly "separated" people as you formed a good enough relationship with one to marry them?
BTW very good points given by poster: baddyu43 | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:10:37 AM | I met someone who was divorced but after a month and a half admitted that they were separated but still married. It wouldn't have worried me if it said that she was separated on her profile.
A week or two before she told me, it was obvious that she had a secret and it was bothering her. By keeping that secret it didn't do any favours and we split up shortly afterwards. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:34:54 PM |
The important issue is the lie. The lie is wrong. This is not to condone the lie but rather explain it.
A vast amount of, primarily, women on these forums have stated they will not date "separated" only will date "divorced" hence the reason for the lie. A person might be a truley separated, no chance of reconciliation and wanting to move on. Aforementioned might feel a need to list "divorced" as too many state they will not even reply to someone who lists "separated". Therefore they see their only recourse as to lie about the status. Again not an excuse for what they do, it is lying, just an explanation.
Personally I choose to be honest and list my status. It greatly limits my possible connections, however the honesty is important to me.
Of note for you though is this:
Just as you feel listing "separated" is not what you want or that listing it might be dishonest as they may have unfinished business. Remember a truly dishonest person may list "divorced" and it be a complete lie. I might have more credibility in a listing of separated then divorced. A lie is a lie and once they go down that path what makes one assume they would lie about separated any more so than divorced?
If they are honest enough to list separated knowing it brings up possible questions and doubts, then perhaps they are showing honesty against the ease of a lie.
Why would you be against truly "separated" people as you formed a good enough relationship with one to marry them?
You are right, the point is the lie.... and whatever my reasons are, they are my reasons... just like some men have to have skinny women, some women taller men, etc, isn't part of it knowing what you are getting into?
Yes, I met my late husband he was separated... without going into details, lets just say that I have no wish to experience that again... the freaked out ex, crank calling at all hours of the night... the endless court visits, ex-parte hearings... watching tears in his eyes when his daughter, 3 yrs old, says "Daddy, mommy says you never wanted me?" to him on the phone... his battles with depression, the financial devistation, the kafkaesque feeling of being swept up in something out of your control...
No, nothing says someone already divorced won't have the same issues, but you can't deny that the odds are better that some of the craziness that accompanies a divorce may have mellowed out by the time that divorce is final. I've been down that insane road once, will not do it again, not for love, money, fame, whatever...
Also, again, I don't want to be the 'other woman' if a family is involved... if there is a chance a family can reconcile, they should.
As to how long a divorce takes... in CA it is 6 month waiting period. Is that really THAT long, to mourn the end of a relationship, to sort things out in your mind, before jumping into something with another person? And even if you want to date, is it really a good idea to lie, just to get more hits on your profile? It isn't a popularity contest... respect other people's reasons, whatever they may be, and look forward to once your divorce is final.
Maybe I'll have to reconsider my 'separated' rule, maybe it does deserve a case by case consideration... maybe I need a 'no crazy ex-wife' rule instead... heck, I'd rather be friends with someone in a sane separation than someone going through crazy ex child-custody stuff after an official divorce, although if someone is separated I think it would have to move much slower... but for now, 'no separateds' is where I'm comfortable.
And, as you've said, | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:40:06 PM |
I might have more credibility in a listing of separated then divorced. A lie is a lie and once they go down that path what makes one assume they would lie about separated any more so than divorced?
If they are honest enough to list separated knowing it brings up possible questions and doubts, then perhaps they are showing honesty against the ease of a lie.
this is a really good point, btw... I just wanted to clarify, when I said 'is it a really good idea to lie', I wasn't talking about you... you do get serious credibility points, in my book! Something to think about... thanks! | |
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R2D2_1
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Joined: 3/25/2009
Msg: 21 | |
| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:07:32 PM | In Michigan, the waiting period is six months from filing the Complaint to entry of Judgment with minor children and two months without minor children. The Court usually adds a month to conclude service of process when setting a date for the ProCon hearing. My divorce took three months from start to finish.
What many parents don't understand is that when minor children are involved, you're divorce isn't really over till all those children have graduated from high school. You're going to have to deal with the Ex through all those years. So, you might as well keep it civil between the two of you.
As far as divorced versus separated, since there's no real other selection to clarify when you register, I'd say if the Complaint has been filed, then for all practical purposes you're divorced even though the final Judgment hasn't been entered yet. IMHO. When I registered, listing myself as separated didn't apply because we're still sharing the house and being divorced didn't apply because the final Judgment hadn't been entered. I just used "divorced" cause it was the most applicable term. It's all done now and I feel the freedom to do what I want without anyone elses permission or approval. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:10:34 PM | Every situation is different.
Some people are separated and still caught up with their ex's in an emotional way. Others are emotionally past their ex's but there's still a whole bunch of drama that's affecting them and their ability to get involved with someone new.
To make a blanket statement that anyone who is not yet legally divorced is not ready to date, is rather shortsighted and shallow.
In my case, I chose "divorced" as my status, so as not to turn away potential dates, however in the very beginning of my profile I state that I have been separated and living alone for 3 years but the divorce will not be legal until after a trial scheduled for a few months from now.
Some may find that deceiving, or even a LIE, but that's how it goes.
Divorce takes time. It doesn't mean the person isn't ready to get back out there. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:33:36 PM | Personally, I think you have every right to feel deceived and not continue with a relationship started on false grounds. I say this having been in that hellish limbo of separation waiting until a year had passed and I could finally file for divorce. It's not a fun place to be particularly as, in my case, there were no financial strings attached and there was also no chance of any sort of reconciliation. You desperately want *someone* out there to give you at least the ghost of a chance as the loneliness takes its toll. It's a pretty certain way of getting passed over to indicate separation on one's profile.
While I can certainly sympathise with the temptation to lie, I can't condone it and didn't take that corse of action myself. Would-be daters have a right to know. My divorce was an ammicable one leaving neither of us any baggage. There were no children either. For all intents and purposes, I could say with some truth that I was merely single rather than divorced. However, going through a marriage failure, presuming one has any sense of honour and conscientiousness, leaves one changed fundamentally. It's one of those one-way doors in life which ages you as you step through it. I'm not the same person I was before the experience. Though I believe I'm now better equipped to be a good life-long companion, it came at a high cost in idealism and optimism. One has to face the fact that love doesn't conquer all. I don't know that I could be swept away by it as I was the first time. It'll be a slower more careful building of a relationship this time around presuming anyone gives me another chance at all. I know a lot of women doubtless turn away from profiles when they see "divorced". However, I'd rather be unattached the rest of my life than have hope for a better fate lost due to a faulty foundation of trust. For me, honesty is the best policy. | |
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| Am I being to harsh? Divorced vs. Separated
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:41:32 PM | | I'm right with you OP on not dating separated people. To me, it feels like they have unfinished business they need to handle before they can move forward and focus on someone else. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, but the plain and simple truth is that most of us who refuse to date separated men or women learned that lesson the hard way, and those kinds of lessons tend to stick with you. | |
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