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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:59:43 PM | At what age would you consider to be appropriate and at what age does it become inappropriate for Multi-Gender Sleep Overs???
My son's mother has normal visitation right now, with her work schedule it works out to be every 3rd weekend that our son spends with her in Virginia, we live in Maryland, only about an hour apart, so that's not a big deal...
Here's my problem, she is taking a girl from our son's class with them for the weekend... First off, as it stands, I'm hoping to go to court soon to get it stamped, but as it stands I pretty much have custody, he is with me a lot more than he is with her and he has even told her that he wants to stay here...
As I was saying, First off I didn't even find out about this until less than 12 hours when he is suppose to leave with her... Shouldn't I be included in these decisions??? Second, I'm a little uncomfortable with the whole idea... They are 11 years old... They have already had "Human Development" this past year in school...
She is picking him up at 7am tomorrow and I found out about this sleep over tonight at 8pm...
Should this sleep over be happening or am I just getting upset for no reason???
Something else while I have your ear, well in this case your eyes... What do you think about taking an 11 year old to see the movie "Drag Me To Hell"??? Yeah, she took him to see it a few weekend ago... I was a bit furious over that too... I take him to see things like Star Trek and Monster vs Aliens, and etc... And she is taking him to see Drag Me To Hell... Is there a Parental Judgment misfire here or am I just overreacting again??? | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:30:10 PM | | You definitely should be included and you should tell her this. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:36:26 PM | Well now it all really depends on the circumstances. Is the girl coming as your son's guest? Does the mother of the girl know your ex and are they long time friends?
To tell the truth, I don't think a parent is ever comfortable with thier childrens first co-ed sleep over.
Movies, now that's also a tough one. My 11 year old hasn't watched it, but he also hasn't asked to. I'd have to roll with the punches on that one. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 9:53:36 PM | Drag me to hell has a PG-13 rating...
That being said, I wouldn't take an 11 year old to it. But it often depends on the kid's maturity....
As for a sleepover... at that age coed sleep overs in the same room... No.... but a sleepover where they go to separate rooms for sleep seems to me the sensible way to accomodate the issues.... my kid's best friend was the opposite sex... that was the solution we used.... and all parents have to be on the same page too... | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 9:59:01 PM | | oh yeah... see I just automatically thought (assumed) there would be seperate rooms... in the same room, no adults... um... wouldn't be happening in this house. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:09:09 PM | First off, no they aren't long time friends... In fact I've know the girl's mother longer than my Ex has... Yes, the only reason she is going is because of my son... No other reason for her to go, she barely knows my David's mother...
No this girl is from his class from school... They've been pretty good friends for the past 2 years, but I just recently started getting to know her mother... David's mother only knows her because of me...
They had a Field Trip to Philly this year and the girl's mother asked me if I was going, I said no that I extended it to his mother and she said that she was going to get off work and go... She then said that she wanted to make sure she had someone to talk to... And since her daughter and David are good friends, there was a good chance they would be hanging out together while in Philly, so since David had a parent going as well, she would have someone to talk to...
So I said, yeah someone will be going...
I would have been fine with a co-ed sleep over a few years ago, kids are too young to really be thinking about anything... I'm not really proud of it anymore, I was back then, but I'm not now, but I got sexually active when I was 12 1/2... That's not something I plan on telling my son until he is like 20 or something... lol
From my understanding, they are supposedly going to be in separate rooms... But my Ex has no set bedtime for when he is with her, so the chance of them falling asleep together while watching TV or something, a very likely chance... And the chance of her waking them to put them in separate rooms {if she isn't already asleep herself}, very unlikely...
So both things are kind of iffy, huh...
What about if you had Court coming up soon... Would you consider any of this to be Questionable Parental Judgment??? | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:23:18 PM | Well, looks like you might have to rely on your son's best judgment.
Maybe you can call "just to check in on him and say goodnight" that might wake the mom up and tell them it's lights out.
Just a thought...
As far as court is concerned, if the adjudicator/judge seems anal he will prob think this is questionable.
If the adjudicator/judge seems chill and laid back, chances are you bring it up and he'll think you're being anal - think you may wanna just go with the flow. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/3/2009 4:32:16 AM | Coed sleepovers are not permitted at my house. However, I could see special situations arising that may be exceptions to the rule. If we were taking a vacation and it was a long-term friend from a younger age, then sure.
...Seperate bedrooms and a very open, mature conversation regarding acceptable behaviour.
OP, my oldest is 11, and she went through the movie this past school year, and we have had a talk, not quite the talk, but yeah "A" talk (arm-pit hair starting to show, a first pimple, the potential for a period, etc) about what is going on with her now, and what she has to look forward to. I believe in the most open dialog which will educate, and hopefully make her feel comfortable in discussing anything with me.
IMHO that is exactly what the doctor ordered in this situation. Sit him down before he goes and explain what your ideals, morals, and the thought process are. In the conversation do not say anything about the ex, and her judgement calls.
There is nothing wrong with calling and checking in a couple of times around bed-time.
Good luck! | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 6:55:12 AM | My sons won't be having sleepovers with girls at 11. Or 13. Or 15. Or hell, till they're grown.
As for the movie? PG-13 and he's 11. Seems something strange to get bothered over. I don't censor too much with my children, mainly anything with high sexual content. Some parents are just not strict when it comes to movies and music, while others are over the top. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 7:13:40 AM | If parents' values were so closely aligned that they agreed on everything that could happen at every stage of their children's development, they'd probably still be together.
You see things differently than your ex. Doesn't mean you're right, doesn't mean she's right. It means your son has to navigate back and forth between the two of you. Make it easier for him by not sweating the small stuff. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 7:17:35 AM | 1. There is no set age when it becomes "appropriate" for multi-gender sleep overs. It all depends on the kids themselves, and where each is "at" - regarding sexuality, as well as with their own morals.
2. You need to remember that IF these two kids are wanting to be sexual with each other, it's gonna happen ... and it won't necessarily be during the "sleeping hours". Do you think your son is ready for sex? Do you not trust him?
3. So, if they do fall asleep watching t.v ... is it really so bad?
Okay, I may think a little differently on this, but I really don't think it's worth getting your "fur in a knot" over. My daughter has "slept/crashed" with many of her male friends ... yet she remained innocent throughout her teens years. Imagine that.
About the movies... Does your son WANT to go see that show? If someone else were taking him to such a movie, would it bother you so much?
No offence, but it could appear that you are just looking for fault in the boy's mother and her parenting ... just something to prove you are the "better" parent. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 7:46:13 AM | I would be just as upset as you are for (a) not being consulted and (b) what I perceive to be "careless parenting" by the other parent. Of course (b) could have been mitigated by explaining the sleeping arrangements.....will they be in the same room like a real "sleepover" or in separate rooms?
My child's other parent saw nothing wrong with having her watch Jurassic Park at the age of 3........and I managed somehow to maintain my anger when I addressed it with him....she was afraid of her own shadow for months after watching that movie...wouldn't go to the bathroom alone and refused to sleep in her own room....grrrrr!!!
If I were you, I would have that parent - to - child chat with your son about sex and your morals/values around sex, if you haven't already. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 7:49:09 AM | I agree with Annonimiss...You are just looking for any excuse to to find fault.
My son is 8 and went to a movie last weekend that was rated 14a
PG13 is rated as that..Parental Guidance before the age of 13. Its only a guideline really....trust his mom! | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 7:53:42 AM | Why is the girl sleeping over? Why isn't she getting dropped off at her house at the end of the day? Co ed sleep overs are crazy at that age. I have an 11 year old daughter and there is NO WAY that would be happening. Different rooms or different wings of a mansion, there is no reason for it.
My husband took our daughter and her friend to see Drag Me To Hell. We decide on a per movie basis which ones we will let her see. Sometimes we make mistakes, like we brought her and some friends to see Year One. Bad idea, oops! I thought it looked funny from the previews. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 4:56:16 PM | i don't really see anything wrong with co-ed sleepovers at age 11, but then circumstances always have a lot to do with it.
my boy/girl twins are 11, attend the same school, in the same class, and share many mutual friends, of both genders.....and of course they share the same birthday. although they went through a couple of years that we had to have 2 birthday parties, a "boy" party one day, and a "girl" party the next....for the past couple of years they have opted for a joint party, which usually involves among other things a sleepover.
separate rooms at bedtime is the usual plan, although i do have to admit there are times when they all line their sleeping bags up on the floor in the living room, put on a movie and giggle themselves to sleep, boys and girls together. we've also done the same scenerio for bar-b-ques in the summer and skating parties in the winter. i of course put my sleeping bag in the same room.............
i do always tell the parents of the children involved that there will be both boys and girls present, and don't usually have a problem with other kids not being allowed to attend, but i've made a point of getting to know the parents of my childrens friends quite well and vice versa.
as for movies, my 11 year olds went to see drag me to hell. 1 loved it, 1 hated it. i always decide on a movie by movie basis although my criteria isn't really all that strict. | |
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tass08
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Joined: 8/11/2008
Msg: 16 | |
| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:18:43 PM |
... non-communicating, texting, sexting, no morals and values, spoiled, anything goes, group of people who will reproduce some day and continue the horrific chain of maladjusted freaks.
Takes one to know one. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:47:32 PM | Dear Friends,
I am thinking when I read the posts above about what is developmentally appropriate, if there were a conflict between the parents. Since christians have managed somehow to get law on their side, the rest us have to inform our kids that behaviour which is perfectly normal elsewhere is proscribed. So, in NY, over 13 but under 17, no sex with anyone with a greater than four year age difference, in PA, under sixteen, proscribed and so on.
I would never want either child of mine in a home where boys and girls were treated differently, at sleepovers or in any other fashion, and would strongly encourage my youngsters to live in a child friendly, teen friendly world, where everyone's home is open to everyone. Eleven year olds in my world have rarely had real sex, so the issue is moot, so same room sleepovers would not bother me for a moment. That having been said, the legal liability is such that no responsible person would allow it. Until the laws are changed,or America grows out of the puritanical mindset, one must be careful.
Stuff we all did in the sixties would involve gaol time today, not because it was wrong, but because religion, the most violent and evil of all human institutions, has poisoned the innocence of teens, both positively, and in the economics of sexuality, to wit, since sex has cash value in a taboo oriented world, we praise Jesus, but have dentifrice intended to get teens or old folks laid, innocent fun is dead. I agree with Dr Seuss - these things are fun and fun is good.
The fact that the question must be asked makes me wonder if the Mouseketeers would be considered kiddy porn in our world. Spin and Marty fighting over Annette would be too hot to handle in a world where Miss Spears has photographs on the internet the likes of which most of us have only seen in gynaecology rotation?
Let kids be kids, make love when love is in bloom, probably not at eleven. Daemonising any part of our humanity does not make us gods, rather petulant narcissists, afraid to love, to have fun, and be open with ourselves, our homes, our feelings. At any age. To say boys and girls should be separate is to say that separate is equal. I think that issue was decided ad curiam a long time ago.
If the OP has a conflict with an ex, then the decision is about the developmental aspect of presentation of conflict, nothing more or less.
Peace,
cdc | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:48:04 PM |
my boy/girl twins are 11, attend the same school, in the same class, and share many mutual friends, of both genders.....and of course they share the same birthday. although they went through a couple of years that we had to have 2 birthday parties, a "boy" party one day, and a "girl" party the next....for the past couple of years they have opted for a joint party, which usually involves among other things a sleepover.
The friends of your children who are sleeping over are the same sex; the girl twin is having her own friends sleep over, who are the same sex as she is, same with your son, he is having his male friends over. In the op's situation, the girl is the boy's friend, so it would be like your girl twin having her friend sleep over who is a boy. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 8:04:47 PM |
I would never want either child of mine in a home where boys and girls were treated differently, at sleepovers or in any other fashion, and would strongly encourage my youngsters to live in a child friendly, teen friendly world, where everyone's home is open to everyone. Eleven year olds in my world have rarely had real sex, so the issue is moot, so same room sleepovers would not bother me for a moment. That having been said, the legal liability is such that no responsible person would allow it. Until the laws are changed,or America grows out of the puritanical mindset, one must be careful.
I have to vehemently disagree with you here. Do you really think nothing would happen during the night, especially if the two 11 year olds "liked" each other?
Let kids be kids, make love when love is in bloom, probably not at eleven. Daemonising any part of our humanity does not make us gods, rather petulant narcissists, afraid to love, to have fun, and be open with ourselves, our homes, our feelings. At any age. To say boys and girls should be separate is to say that separate is equal. I think that issue was decided ad curiam a long time ago.
At what age is it appropriate to let them "make love"? Do you know how high the teen pregnancy rate is in the U.S.? I dont know where you are from, but we have the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the industrialized world, and it is going up again now, after it had been on the decline for many years. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/3/2009 10:18:13 PM | Gee, SagMan4u ... do you have a dirty mind or what?? ("Why don't you just have an orgy or hand out condoms and vibrators instead").
Yes, I am an awful mother who allowed kids to "crash" with my daughter regardless of their sex. At all times through the night (checked on many different times), they were sound asleep ... wrapped in different blankets .... and usually had their jeans and shirts still on. As I said before, my daughter remained one of the oldest virgins around. In fact, you may find this tough to understand, but she is now over 18 and hangs with all kinds of teens/young adults in their early twenties ... who "crash" together on a regular basis ... and actually aren't having sex or orgies!
Meanwhile, I could tell you about many girls with very strict parents who are sneaking around having sex ... and risking getting pregnant (condoms only), because their parents would flip right out if birth control were mentioned ... or that their sweet little child were having sex. One example? My old neighbor had a daughter who always had boyfriends. Her mother would let them visit downstairs in the daytime or early evening. Well, guess what they were doing with mom and dad right upstairs? The real kicker is that one day over coffee, the mother told me that her daughter was not having sex ... and she was quite sure "suzie" was a virgin. Through my daughter I know that she had not been a virgin since 12 years old! Of course it was not my place to say anything, but it was just further proof that sex does not just happen during "sleepovers"or in the nighttime ... it happens anytime, and with some kids with the strictest of parents.
I still say it is about the individual kids ... where they "are" sexually, and depends greatly on their own values and morals.
By the way, the number of gay/lesbian kids is shockingly high ... so maybe "sleepovers" should just be disallowed entirely ... to make sure no "making out" can ever happen? | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:03:38 AM |
The friends of your children who are sleeping over are the same sex; the girl twin is having her own friends sleep over, who are the same sex as she is, same with your son, he is having his male friends over.
no that is not quite accurate.......my twins share friends of both genders, so when we do a party it really doesn't matter who "invites" who. the list is made up regardless of gender.
and both genders are here at the same time, so we are in effect having a two gender sleepover; and i personally don't see anything wrong with it.
friends are friends and to only encourage my children to have friends of "their" gender is just wrong, as is having different rules of what is acceptable for my girls versus my boys.
but then again i trust my parenting instincts, i trust my childrens friends parents, and i trust my children and their friends in an "age appropriate" manner.
seems to me more parents should be concerned with unsupervised internet access, unsupervised roaming the streets, than a supervised sleepover. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 5:20:16 AM | Anonamiss got it right. (message 11)
This isn't about the kids. Its about the parents! OP is in a tizzy because he isn't allowed to dictate other people's behavior 24/7. And he thinks he can get anything from the courts. Ha! the courts are smarter than this. And so are the lawyers who will see this sucker coming and will milk him for all he's worth so they can buy a new Lexus.
Fact: OP is divorced from the kid's mom. Divorced means divorced!! He can no longer tell her what to do, how to live her life, and how to be a parent. That bridge has been burnt. This kind of dominant behavior was probably the cause of the divorce in the first place, and will be the cause of the kid turning more toward the mother than the hard-line ogre father.
Canoist | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/4/2009 6:19:03 AM |
Boys don't have sleepovers. Oh, I forgot. Yes they do
Hate to break it to you there buddy... my son had sleepovers.... with boys and girls...
They were also well supervised. I stayed up and supervised. and the kids knew I would be awake. I'm a night owl. Parents were met and concerns etc were discussed in advance.... And considering the number of girls my son has hanging off him these days, it did him no harm.... | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:56:28 AM | Hate to break it to you sister.
maybe you should learn to read before you go passing judgement......i do believe m church is a father.
o/t........of most of the "problems" we encounter with our children, very few of them are a result of the kids; they are a result of how we as parents have raised them.
if you raise your kids without morals, you really can't expect them to suddenly develop them when they hit the tween/teen stage. if you never allow your kids to make age appropriate decisions, they don't really have a chance in hell of making proper decisions when they are finally in the position to make decisions.
if your kids have been raised knowing that you, their parent, keeps tabs on them, knows/talks to their friends parents/teachers, and has learned behaviour patterns/consequences for their actions, then they will in all likelihood make it through to adult stage without becoming lying, stealing, drug using, sexually active mothers/fathers at 11/12/13.
and if any parent hasn't done that, then i really can't imagine that a parentally supervised mixed gender sleepover at 11 is going to be the catalyst that changes their lives! | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:27:36 AM | ummm... SagMan4u ....
Since you addressed me ... I'm assuming only your first two sentences are directed my way? Since I don't have a boy, I'm guessing the rest was not intended for me?
Why would you have a problem with my bringing up gays and lesbians? It is an ever-growing reality. Many of my daughters friends are either.
I really resent the inference accompanying your statement .. "Or do you want your daughter to grow up to become a whore for all the "sleep over" boys" ... since, if you read my two posts, you would see that my daughter is as far from a whore as one can get ... yet she has slept/crashed with quite a few of her friends.
It seems you just can't understand that all kids are not the same ... and you seem to think that there is only one way to parent ... to assume the worst, mistrust them, and forbid any situation where a kid needs to think for themselves. Surely you have heard of "forbidden fruit", and how much tastier it is when forbidden? Open communication and trust goes a long way with kids.
I will not criticize your parenting, as I'm sure you are a great father ... but, will one of your kids ever feel "safe" to come to you when they have done, or are doing things you would be outraged over? Just something to think about... | |
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