| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/3/2009 10:59:47 PM | I've had a film group that I started about 2 years ago. Every week we go see foreign and independent films at a local indi theater.
There are 75 people in the group although they all don't come at once (thank god).
Anyway, we were chatting about the Demographics of the group, and I want to ask here why you think it is. I advertise for this group on Craigslist, at local supermarket bulletin boards and word of mouth.
Here's about how we sit:
80% women.
Avg. age around 45
90% employed
only 2 of the 75 identify as Christian.
about 40 of the 75 identify as 'other' religion (non-Christian/Muslim/Jewish) with the rest being non of the above.
only 1 of the 75 identifies as a Republican
We asked at the theater and they agreed that our stats are probably similar as what they see in the door.
We were taken aback... WHY do you suppose Republicans and Christians do not attend Foreign and Independent films?
I'd love to hear your insight.
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:25:05 AM | It may be that Republicans and Christians appear to be more attached to traditions. In a number of these families, it seems that adult children vote the way their parents have voted and will continue their participation in the faith or denomination that they were raised in.
Both Republicans and Christians are often painted as conservative and dogmatic in their outlook on life, loathe to rock the boat too much. Pretty much all the Christians that I personally know have never tasted a mutton curry, have never read anything penned by a southeast Asian author and are simply not interested in viewing foreign films. Whenever I have mentioned that I should like to visit India some day, I am inevitably asked "Why would anyone want to go there???" When asked what I've been reading lately and I reply that I've just finished yet another book about the Partition of India, the eyes glaze over.
I also find that Americans and Canadians who have had the opportunity to travel overseas have their eyes opened to entirely different mindsets and ways of living. My mother had been to Thailand and Singapore about 6 years before I was sent there on business. Though an eloquent woman, she tried to describe her experiences there but always closed with "It truly cannot be adequately described, you absolutely have to experience it." After only the first few days I was there, I knew exactly what she meant.
These are just some of my thoughts on the matter. I am not attempting to perpetuate any kind of stereotypes whatsoever but I do find Republicans and Christians to be more content in the safe cocoon of familiarity.
By the way, I know you haven't asked but I do know why such a low percentage of men attend foreign/indie films ~ they simply hate reading subtitles, lol.....
Rains | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 4:01:42 AM | I think that America has a twisted sense of what is liberal and what is conservative. What we now routinely accept as conservative is what in the 40s was known as Fascism. I think it's no suprise that these people who spend their entire political energies railing against the evils of immigrants and any form of independant thought don't want to be exposed to foreign and idependant films.
They have Rush Limbaugh telling them daily that these things are evil and will result in them burning in hellfire.
As for Christians. What is practiced in America is not Christianity by any messure of scripture.
I don't think that you can really blame it on Christianity that they don't want to see it. I think that you can blame it on the biggotry of modern American Churches.
And I'm willing to bet that the 2 Christians you have are not the shining superstars of their respective congregations.
Those superstars will only go see stuff like "Pasion of the Christ." . . . and they'll actually buy into all the crap in that movie too. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:40:27 AM |
We were taken aback... WHY do you suppose Republicans and Christians do not attend Foreign and Independent films? Most people I know who don't like to watch Foreign films, do so, because they don't want to venture out of their comfort zone, to watch subtitles. Same for Independent films, as they tend to be quite off the wall, or tend to deal with very difficult and sometimes upsetting issues. They want to stay in their comfort zone. Most people don't go to see films to make money, or change their life. They go for entertainment, to escape the difficulties of daily life, to just have a laugh, and not to have to struggle to understand someone saying something they don't understand, and watch stuff that is difficult for them to relate to, or might make them even more unhappy than before they went into the cinema.
AFAIK, Republicans are the US equivalent of Conservatives here in the UK. Conservative philosophy amounts to "if you want to make money, you will", and that "things are pretty good as they are already". That "things are pretty good as they are already", means that you serve little purpose by trying to change the system, and so the only reasonable thing to do in your free time, is just to enjoy yourself as much as possible, and so, the best way to do that, is to watch films that you feel comfortable with, and that are unlikely to challenge your perceptions.
Xians probably follow the same rules, because the majority are Xians in the USA (80%). Muslims and Jews probably are more likely to watch Independent and Foreign films to challenge their perceptions, because just by living in a country where they are the minority, and most Americans don't understand half the things they do, they are already having to stand up to the majority, so they are attracted to anything that supports the notion of having your own beliefs. Those who report to be Others, which Xian Americans seem to be opposed to even more than just non-Xian theists, seem to feel very persecuted indeed, and so that attraction is likely to be far greater, especially since Muslims and Jews have had at least 1500 years to get used to such conflict and opposition, while as American atheists, agnostics, and other variants, as a significant minority group, are really very new in American society, maybe 50-70 years old at most. They have another 1450-1430 years to get used to it.
Muslims and Jews are likely to be far more into foreign films than other groups, because their religion requires them to be bi-lingual, in a language that is incredibly different to English, Muslims in Arabic, and Jews in Hebrew, and in Aramaic. So I expect that Muslims and Jews are far more comfortable with foreign films, because they are already bi-lingual, and going from 1 to 2 languages is a real challenge, but going from 2 to 3 languages is just not that big of a deal. You've already learned the process of learning a new language. This is just another one. So Muslims and Jews probably don't consider watching a film in Croation with subtitles, any different than watching a film about Americans who speak with a thick Louisiana accent. Actually, that's not true. At least if you don't understand the Croatian, you can read the subtitles. No-one gives subtitles for an English speaker with a thick Louisiana accent. If you don't understand the accent, you're stuffed. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 6:35:42 AM | I have not much to add... the previous three replies have been thoughtful and have given, what I percieve as logical insight regarding current cultural trends.
I believe that the phenomena is somewhat alarming and I'm sure applies to Canada almost as much as to the U.S.A.
It is not wise to be so insular in a growingly inter-dependant world. I also believe that it mirrors a growing polarization of the population.
I do not want to see Fortress North America.
I would rather see a United World. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:38:02 AM | Thanks for all your great replies so far.
Can any of you think of a way to get more of the Republican / Christian / Conservatives to come out to films with us? We ALL agree that it would be nice to get THEIR slant on any particular film, but so far, we haven't been able to find any willing to join.
Thanks,
James | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:46:18 AM |
Can any of you think of a way to get more of the Republican / Christian / Conservatives to come out to films with us?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would think you'd have to have the key to unlock a closed mind first. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:25:39 PM | I think that America has a twisted sense of what is liberal and what is conservative. What we now routinely accept as LIBERAL   is what in the 40s was known as Fascism. I think it's no suprise that these people who spend their entire political energies railing against the evils of CHRISTIANS and any form of ICONICLASTIC thought don't want to be exposed to REALITY but rather, like Woody Allen who prob found his DAGUHTER on This site, imerse themselves in the FANTASY brought by films.
They have KEITH OLBERMANN  telling them daily what is evil and how voting REPUBLICAN will result in them burning in hellfire.
As for LIBERALS. What is practiced in America is not LIBERALISM by any messure. Liberalism USED to mean open minded and looking forward. Of course GAY used to mean...never mind! Anyway now liberal means PROTECTING the status quo even if it means breaking 200 YEAR BANKRUPTCY LAW - See Chrysler BK for details. Be it the UAW, the utterly DISCREDITED Roe v Wade or the UTTERLY ANTIQUATED Social Security Entitlement system, liberals these days CLING to the past. I mean like how many times has Michelle Obama been compared to Jackie Kennedy a figure from FIFTY years ago.
Of course, you can't blame LIBERALS for that one - See for yourself -they're practically TWINS!
http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/wp-content/gallery/random/mo_ugly.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Whitehouseportraitjackie.jpg/220px-Whitehouseportraitjackie.jpg
I don't think that you can really blame it on LIBERALSIM that they don't want to see it. I think that you can blame it on the biggotry of modern American MEDIA, LEFT WING UNIVERSITIES AND TEACHERS UNIONS.
And I'm willing to bet that the 70 LIBERALS you have aren't exactly the SHARPEST KNIVES in the drawer. 
Those superstars will only go see stuff like "Fahrenheit_9/11." . . . and they'll actually buy into all the crap in that movie too. LIBERALS are great when you want a conspiracy
theory to explain why they FAILED. Just ask LIBERALS They have this elaborate theory about how 9 11 was an INSIDE JOB to deflect from the historic fact that Bill Clinton leaving our security system in SHAMBLES when Bush took off (NO homeland security. FBI and CIA not even TALKING to each other. WEAKENED Military.) Of just ask Ms RWConspiracy herself - Hillary Clinton  when she isn't getting shot at by snipers in Bosnia...  | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:31:54 PM | "Whenever I have mentioned that I should like to visit India some day, I am inevitably asked "Why would anyone want to go there???"
Other than the fact that MILLIONS of Christians went to India before you ever HEARD OF THE PLACE lady and built schools orphanages and institutions that LITERALLY formed the foundation for the EMERGENT country India has become today.
INDIA NOW HAS ABOUT 100 MILLION Christians. I guess, by applying your crackerjack logic, they have no interest in going to America, either!
Good God! You BIGOTS are sooooooo Fn'g Stupid!!!!!
v v v
Somebody find SOME sanity in this nuthouse. ROTFLAMAO!!! | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 2:59:20 PM | Where I live, a lot of the Indie and foreign film nights revolve around unconventional themes, kitsch value, dark humour, voyeurism, shock value, etc. And despite how I am on the forums, I am actually a very conservative person in real life.
I prefer stimulus in my life, to lean more toward the predictable and familiar. And if there is an air of disruptive eccentricity to it all, I prefer to not be exposed to it without my consent. And most films I've had to sit through that didn't like following that groove, felt like it was having to put up with drunk uninvited guests, rebelling against my expectations, simply for the sake of getting a reaction out of me.
So it is not everyone's cup of tea. And one can claim it is wrong to feel that aversion, but I feel that way for more reasons than even I know. I would hope those feelings are entitled to some respect, regardless of how well it can, or cannot, be understood. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:59:55 PM | | Seventy-five people is not a large enough group to make any generalized statements. Though, I would not doubt that you would probably have a similar outcome with a significant number. Maybe you could get a grant and do a study! | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:30:04 PM | Msg #8 and #9 were written by a man, man!
I totally agree with MisterTee777 on one thing.
The concept of what is liberal and what is conservative has gotten pretty f'd up over the years. Misrepresentation most of the time, appears to be a completely unintentional series of occurrences that just keep stacking up on themselves. :( | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:24:32 PM | Dear Super BrRYANiac,
My message #8 was an almost word for word PARODY of message #3. 
Thanks for taking the time away from your busy work in NUCLEAR PHYSICS to NOT catch that!
You go Girlfriend!
MISTER Tee
PS Another OPEN MINDED liberal gets PUNK'd! by
....MISTER Tee | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:42:39 PM | Mister Tee:
Guys who post 300,000,000 emoticons in one post are simply not allowed to insult anyone else's intelligence.
The best conspiracy theories are cooked up by right wing space cadets. My favorite RW conspiracy theory is the one that says the U.S. was founded on a Christian principle. Self-proclaimed conservative Alex Jones dreams up the craziest stuff you'll ever see. Before you call liberaism modern day fascism, you should have your mom help you look it up in that big book with all those long words you don't know. Compare that definition to the Repuliclown Party and let's see who's a fascist.
Maybe if you dolts would go take a history class at, well, ANY DAMNED UNIVERSITY, you would realize how ignorant you sound. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:46:17 PM | Because republicans are conservative christians. Foreign films require reading sub-titles as well as acknowledging there is a world outside of the U.S. For them to see an independent movie means they will then have to watch PBS and it's endless pledge drives, possibly even watch Nova or some other thought provoking series, therefore altering all they presently believe in.
Just sayin'. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:04:01 PM | My message #8 was an almost word for word PARODY of message #3
I was well aware of your attempt at parody. It doesn't change the fact that it was ignorant a many levels.
To start with, the amount of emoticons is annoying. Also the amount of full words capitalized is considered a forum violation. Words in full capital are considered shouting.
INDIA NOW HAS ABOUT 100 MILLION Christians
Actually India has about 27 million christians.
Other than the fact that MILLIONS of Christians went to India before you ever HEARD OF THE PLACE lady and built schools orphanages and institutions that LITERALLY formed the foundation for the EMERGENT country India has become today.
Are you even aware that India was part of the British Empire.
But you missed what the OP was talking about.
Indy was short for independant film. Films from India are usually called Bollywood or Hindi.
What we now routinely accept as LIBERAL is what in the 40s was known as Fascism.
I know this was a parody of msg 3, but do you even know what fascism means?
if it means breaking 200 YEAR BANKRUPTCY LAW - See Chrysler BK
What law would that be?
utterly DISCREDITED Roe v Wade
If it is so utterly discredited, why are abortions still legal in America.
If you are talking bout how a few people changed their minds after the case, you clearly do not understand how the Supreme Court works.
UTTERLY ANTIQUATED Social Security Entitlement
And you would prefer to have old widows die in the street?
Or let me guess, you think people should be able to invest their own money.
That is not the point of SS, it is a safety net for people who were unable to save for their later years.
And SS can be managed properly. Canada has a very successful government pension plan.
liberals these days CLING to the past
It seems to me, that it is the liberals in America who look to the future.
I mean like how many times has Michelle Obama been compared to Jackie Kennedy a figure from FIFTY years ago.
Maybe because Jackie O was an important First Lady. In fact I believe pretty much every First Lady since Jackie has been compared to Jackie. Nancy Reagan is also very popular for comparisson.
But we always compare current leaders with those from the past.
And I'm willing to bet that the 70 LIBERALS you have aren't exactly the SHARPEST KNIVES in the drawer.
Again this was meant as parody of msg 3.
But where msg 3 was talking about how people who are willing to expand their horizons are rarely heavy church promoters.
But what you wrote was an insult with no basis in fact.
the historic fact that Bill Clinton leaving our security system in SHAMBLES when Bush took off
Clinton warned Bush specifically that Bin Laden was up to something.
Bush recieved several memos the week before 9/11 that AlQueda was getting ready to attack.
Bush spent the better part of his first 8 months in office, on vacation.
It was Bush's decision to allow all Bin Laden family members and all Saudi royalty in America to leave America on a private jet after 9/11, without being questioned, and the rest of the country was banned from flying.
It was also the Bush White House that decided chasing the 9/11 funding was of no importance.
PS Another OPEN MINDED liberal gets PUNK'd! by
You say "open minded" like it's an insult. I am proud to be open minded, but I do not consider myself a liberal.
But who got Punk'd?
And I do apologize for calling the poster female. The shading in the small grainy picture made him look slightly female. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:11:28 PM |
Asking a conservative to think is often like asking a rock to float.
asking a liberal to think is far more often like asking a rock to float.
Pumice is a type of volcanic rock that sometimes floats. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:32:43 PM | ===But you missed what the OP was talking about.
Indy was short for independant film. Films from India are usually called Bollywood or Hindi.===
Sir, the comment referencing INDIA was addressing the author of post #2 and had nothing to do w/ EITHER Indy films or Bollywood.
MISTER Tee | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/5/2009 12:21:57 AM |
Other than the fact that MILLIONS of Christians went to India before you ever HEARD OF THE PLACE lady and built schools orphanages and institutions that LITERALLY formed the foundation for the EMERGENT country India has become today.
Millions of Christians huh ? Source please ? Actually, this entire paragraph has absolutely no relevance to my stating my desire to visit India and the fact that people I have told this to cannot imagine why I, or anyone else, would want to visit there. Red Herring fallacy - look it up.
INDIA NOW HAS ABOUT 100 MILLION Christians. I guess, by applying your crackerjack logic, they have no interest in going to America, either!
You may have noticed that another poster has brought it to your attention that India currently has nowhere near 100 million Christians. Not even close. Not even close to close. As to your next statement, you are attacking a position of your own creation while trying to imply that it is mine. Tsk tsk. Straw Man fallacy - look it up.
Good God! You BIGOTS are sooooooo Fn'g Stupid!!!!!
Ad Hominem fallacy - look it up.
Don't feel bad - there is a learning curve as one becomes more proficient in constructing logical arguments but it is a worthwhile endeavour. The liberal use of logical fallacies and glaringly obvious lack of comprehension will speedily identify a poster whose arguments are critically anemic. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/5/2009 5:52:31 AM | Dear Rainsands,
It's obvious how PROUD you are of that C- you got in Logical Fallacies 101 at your local COMMUNITY COLLEGE but, in light of this CRACKERJACK post, I'm kindly asking you to send me your prof's name and cell. He'll probably want to reconsider. 
Your ENTIRE post was one barely veiled CHEAP shot about the INCURIOUSITY of Conservatives and by extension Christians. Now that's NOVEL.
You clearly have NO idea what a red herring even is if you think there's no connection between your HATEFUL insult about those 'conservatives' who wonder why you'd even 'want to go to India' and the fact that so many have ALREADY gone.
Make that a D.<img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0>
I'm sorry that you can't see the OBVIOUS logical extension in my following argument. It IS a little subtle, but to incredulously mislabel it a 'Straw Man' is beyond laughable.
Make that a D-.<img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0>
Finally, you claim that calling you a bigot is an "Ad Hominem fallacy." Excusing the awkward phrasing, you might have a point.
But, like they say...if the WHITE SHEET FITS....wear it.
Make that an F.<img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0><img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0><img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0>
Game. Set. Match.
MISTER Tee
PS A helpful suggestion going forward: Liberals should NEVER try to debate Conservatives in matters of logic or thinking rationally. It's not even a fair fight for you guys. Try sticking with genres you're more comfortable in. You know, like the fiction found in foreign films... | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/5/2009 7:59:04 AM | | It's very simple if you have ever heard a conservative talk about economics, foreign policy, military policy, or just about any other topic that is not strictly domestic. In the conservative dictionary 'Foreign' = bad. This is especially true of France. Something being 'French' is almost as bad as being 'Socialist'....... | |
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