| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:55:21 AM | A woman age 85 has lain dead for 5 years in a flat in Edinburgh. She was last seen in 2004 by neighbours and local shopkeepers who say she was out every day with her shopping trolley. When she failed to arrive at the local shops the shop staff presumed she had moved. The neighbours presumed she had moved. It was only when water started coming through the ceiling of the flat below that police broke in and found a 3ft high pile of mail behind the door and then found the womans body.
We are now in an era where everything is done automatically through our bank accounts, money comes in, money goes out, only statements come in the post as the bills are already paid. In the past they would all go on pension day to the post office to get their money and pay their bills .. if someone didn't turn up then it was noticed, someone would go round to make sure they were ok.
We hear of these stories time and again but I'm really shocked that for five years no-one went to see her. Police are still trying to track down her relatives.
Do you think that some elderly people cut themselves off too much from society?
Do you think society has alienated the elderly and caused them to keep themselves to themselves?
thoughts please | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:57:15 AM | Nats to be honest this thing is going to be a frequent occurance in decades to come.
People are too busy living in insular bubbles with only themselves to care about. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:19:15 AM | 85 years old? At that age she should have had some kind of home help or something?
That is a really sad story ;a lonely old woman that dies and no-one even notices that she's not been around for 5 years! Surely one of her neighbours would have realised that she hadn't moved out(lack of removal lorry/van) and there must have been a bit of a pong coming from her place?
It's probably more the fact that no-one gives a toss about anyone else anymore.
Where I use to live there was a flat(that I use to pass daily) on the ground floor and the curtains and windows were absolutely filthy and the windows never open and there just seemed to be lack of movement(I knew someone lived there because it hadn't been bordered up by the council but I didnt know who) and I was a bit concerned that someone may have died in the flat so I rang the council to query it. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:23:51 AM | At least you rang ... when I read this in the paper it was full of quotes from people who 'wondered what had happened to her' or wondered where she had gone but not one of them bothered to make even a basic check.
I just think it's incredibly sad | |
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Pud78
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Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 6 | |
| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:30:03 AM | Five years though of no one coming and going from the property?? surely someone would of noticed that at least? if people assumed it was an empty property, especially in a city, surprised it wasn't taken over by squatters.
It does say something about local neighbourhoods and the loss of community spirit. I must admit though I may of not noticed as have little to do with my neighbours. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:30:20 AM | She might not have had any family & being the age she was at, most of her friends could have died before her so she might not have had any friends socially. Going out daily was probably her social thing.
Some folk young & old do cut themselves off. I do home visits & went to see this elderly couple who didn't get out much at all & all thier friends had died. When I suggested day centres they just weren't interested. Luckily they have each other for now.....
Then there's lots of oldies who love the day centres as it's their only chance in the week to meet up & socialise with others. They play a game of bingo, have lunch etc. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 8 | |
| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:33:37 AM |
Nats to be honest this thing is going to be a frequent occurance in decades to come.
People are too busy living in insular bubbles with only themselves to care about.
I agree completely. The world we're in doesn't give many people enough hours in the day to care properly about others. It seems wrong. Some people don't care some people can't. It isn't just the elderly becoming isolated. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:36:10 AM | 85 years old? At that age she should have had some kind of home help or something?
That's not automatically the case at all. My old Mum is 87 and as fit as a butcher's dog. She's too darn independant really but she won't have anyone in to help her out with anything. She does her own housekeeiping, gardening, shopping etc, and still treats Monday as 'wash day' as she has for the past 70 odd years. Bless her!! | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:46:51 AM | ^ labdien..ahhh thats good to hear and she also has you and other family around her.
I bet this poor woman had nobody though(for nobody to know she had died?)and she probably was quite independent herself by the sounds of it...it's such a shame! | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:17:11 AM | My gran is 84 and also very independent, she's housebound now because she had a couple of falls that meant she lost confidence, she lives 10 mins away from my mum and my mum goes up most days. About 2 months ago my mum couldn't get a hold of my gran on the phone, so decided to walk up. My gran has a pendant that activates to a centre where they have a spare door key for her, the key is actually on a box outside my grans house and they use a code to get in. If she has a fall or needs help she presses the button on the pendant.
My gran had gone to bed, taken the pendant off, got up to go to the loo and collapsed, couldn't crawl to the phone. My mum found her the next night, she had been there for 24 hours and if my mum hadn't found her then she would have died.
My gran had a heart attack and ended up in hospital for a month but she is out now, needless to say she doesn't take the pendant off now, she was worried about pressing it by accident and being a nuisance so took it off at night.
My gran is out of hospital now and doesn't have any extra supports going in, she is doing really well but as an above poster said, when you have someone who is very independent and maybe doesn't have a lot of family around them, then things like this will happen.
A lot of older people want to remain in their own homes as long as they can.
Even a lot of younger people don't know their neighbours, I don't know many of mine and if anything happened to me or them, then I don't think that would be spotted quickly. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:19:51 AM | This an awful story. If she was out and about every day many people would have known her, also her neighbours. But they were indifferent just asuming she had moved.
My 94 year old neighbour opposite was a bit late getting up the other day, and the neighbour who has the key saw the curtains still closed, knocked the door and let herself in.
My mum is 86 in August and one of us goes over every day to make sure she takes her tabs, and has a dinner, but I know what you mean about being independant, I wish every one could be so lucky. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:38:21 AM | This is terrible but as Kath says something that will become more and more common as families move away, people choose not to have kids and venturing out of the house for older people becomes more and more frightening due to crime and anti social behaviour.
Just because she was old doesn't mean that she was known to social services or health services. Even those who really should be known to services are often falling through the net.
Engaging people in social activity can also be difficult, if they don't want to participate then they can't be forced to and neither should they.
It's dreadfully sad. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:09:05 AM | Going a bit off subject here..(well to a degree)I remember reading in the paper a while back (may have been a year or so)about a Mum who had diabetes and died in her flat and her young baby died also from de-hydration (and malnutrition if i remember rightly?) their bodies were'nt discovered for weeks and non of the neighbours said that had realised that she and baby hadn't been about for a while and heard nothing?
I mean come on! That poor baby must have been crying for days on end!
Its tragic and just awful how nobody seems to hear or see (or just turns a blind eye!) to things!It seems days of looking out or just caring for others have passed!so sad! | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:40:14 AM | | Thanks Nats! I really needed cheering up too! It's a very grim story but neatly highlights how we are so busy going about or own business we sometimes fail as a community to keep an eye out for our elderly folk. In many ways there is a gulf between how the elderly are respected and looked after by family and communities in other European countries as opposed to here where they suffer discrimination and are not given the due respect they deserve. Although the elderly are frail in some ways, mentally they are often still alert and they still have their pride and dignity which they cling to given that society has stripped them of most other things. One of the reasons why the elderly are sometimes over-looked is because we are a nation who celebrate birth but are in fear of death and the elderly remind us of our own impending death. It is extremely sad to read a story like this and makes me realise why the voluntary grief work I do with some of my more elderly clients is so valuable and it has also helped me to view the world through their eyes and realise that just because their outer layer is somewhat worn and wrinkly, inside they are still young, funny and tough as anything. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:42:09 AM |
she probably was quite independent herself by the sounds of it...it's such a shame!
Actually that's very true and not a little thought provoking. I guess being very independant means that people are not so likely to check up on someone on a regular basis, and heart attacks / strokes etc can strike at any time. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 10:59:31 AM |
Actually that's very true and not a little thought provoking. I guess being very independant means that people are not so likely to check up on someone on a regular basis, and heart attacks / strokes etc can strike at any time.
And I think part of the reason why some elderly people are so fiercely independent is because they fear being a nuisance to society or their relatives. When they start to depend on others they start to fear they are losing control over their own lives and whilst they can retain their independence they feel empowered by that. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 11:12:24 AM |
Even a lot of younger people don't know their neighbours, I don't know many of mine and if anything happened to me or them, then I don't think that would be spotted quickly.
Maybe nows a time to introduce yourself and find a 'swine flu buddy' before the proverbial hits the fan  | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 11:19:44 AM |
Maybe nows a time to introduce yourself and find a 'swine flu buddy' before the proverbial hits the fan
What I should maybe have said was, I have family and friends who might notice if something was amiss, my neighbours wouldn't. I've been here 14 years, I have good reason for not wanting to be friendly with most of them. It's not just older people who don't socialise with their neighbours, I don't and I know a lot of people who don't either.
I'm sure there are people who have very good relationships with neighbours, but I know a lot of people who don't and even when there is no animosity, a lot of people don't socialise with people they live beside. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:56:19 PM | I work in an old peoples home and some of them have no visitors at all. It tends to be the ones that have never married or dont have children. A couple of them are over 100 and have outlived many of their relatives.
Its a very sad story. My mum is 84 and I have to do a lot for her now. She has a lifeline she can press if anything was to go wrong and a neighbour who calls in on her. I wonder how this lady ended up so alone. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:59:43 PM | | That is just so sad!When i was married i used to keep an eye on an elderly lady across the road.She would get sick every Winter with bronchitis and i would look after her.One New Years day i went over in the morning and couldn,t get any answer.I looked thru the window and saw her in her chair with her eyes closed.I hammered on the door and window but still nothing.Luckily a police car came down the road and i flagged him down!She was ok thankfully and gave me a key after that scare! | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:03:55 PM | Its disgusting in this day and age that this has happened and beggers belief that no one knew 
I am assuming she was living in her own home and the mortgage was paid off because the council or local housing normally do a gas or electrical check every year. So if the flat was council or HA they must have known. No gas or electric checks to read the meter. No baliffs have turned up for non payment of council tax, or un paid water charges.. The only thing I can think of is that the payment of her pension (if in reciept) would have gone untouched and the bills were paid for on DD.
But again normally these things like rent, and bills are all reviewed periodically. Can't believe that no one thought to check on her, its so sad this happened in the UK  | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:25:19 PM | Even if this old lady had no relatives or friends I find it hard to believe nobody missed her.
I mean 5 years is a long time to lay dead and surely somebody would have noticed that?
If we can spend millions sending our armed forces to fight around the world I cant see
why some sort of local system couldn't be set up to make sure these things don't happen.
If she had a pile of post 3ft high couldn't the postman have noticed and called the Police?
What a sad story and I hope when I'm old and lonely at least someone will miss me. | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:32:49 PM | Welcome to modern British society.......
Selfish Obnoxious Arrogant Insular...... The me me me generations that seem to have sprouted in the last 20 to thirty years... 50 years ago this would never have happened.....
And as another poster has pointed out it will become more frequent, people are to busy with there small narrow minded little worlds to really give a damn....
Sure lip serves is paid..... people will express their horror at the news... but it won't have a major effect, unless it effects their own little bubble ..... e well as cold and as harsh as it sounds once again Welcome to modern Britain | |
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| Woman lays dead in flat for 5 years
Posted: 7/5/2009 3:43:18 AM |
If she had a pile of post 3ft high couldn't the postman have noticed and called the Police?/
Hams, the postie said he had only seen the woman once in 10 years of delivering her mail. I don't know how he didn't realise how much mail had piled up behind her door, even if you don't look through the letterbox you would surely hear it hitting the pile?
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