OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 1 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:39:12 AM | Stalin said.... First we have to watch the people, then we have to restrict the people.
Forgive me but I wouldn't exactly call myself clued up on this stuff but a few things seem obvious.
CCTV.... Awesome for resolving crimes and keeping peopel safe, can't argue with that but. You now cannot go anywhere without being viewed and tracked.
ID Cards... This will happen at some point in the future and there may even be fines for not carrying it.
Political Correctness.... They told us at the start of the 90's it was designed to promote diversity awareness but what it also does is restrict the way you are allowed to think. This is actually removing diverse ways of thinking from people. We all dislike racism and sexism etc but political correctness covers a lot more than just that and you will be in trouble for thinking in certain ways.
Health & Safety.... A persons health and safety is nothing more than common sense. Health and Safety laws are designed to restrict movement. You cannot do anything profesionally without the right qualification or license.
So, in conclusion.... We're watched all the time, when ID cards are introduced we will be checked into each location all the time, poitical correctness restricts the way you can think, H&S restricts the way you can move.
This is the start of a dictatorship my friends ;) | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:56:24 AM |
CCTV.... Awesome for resolving crimes and keeping peopel safe, can't argue with that
Er.......if a crime has been committed in view of a CCTV camera, how did that camera keep the victim safe?
This is the start of a dictatorship my friends ;)
It started in 1973, when we joined the organisation now called the EU. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 3 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:01:02 AM |
if a crime has been committed in view of a CCTV camera, how did that camera keep the victim safe?
You are less likely to be attacked or beaten or robbed in a CCTV area and if you are then yep, fairplay the cameras did nothing to protect you but the aggressor is more likely to be caught than in a non CCTV area. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:03:18 AM | As much as I totally agree with yuo, we have had this in place for a few years now, centuries infact (Cromwell)...
Your new passport has biometric thingy thing and can show everything about ye...And you need ID to sneaze if you go to a bank, tax office, dole, almost everything...
On the flip side, and ID card would be usefull for this...
the downside, it woun't stop criminals, terrorists like they say it won't...The only thing it will stop or deter is the petty criminal, not the clever smart ones...Which means, peolpe who are struggling and always get by dealuing in "something from the back of a lorry" won't be able to anymore...
It's all really in the pursuit of getting you to pay your taxes and control you and your movements...
One thing that annoys me, I hear people go on about "good ole U.S of A" but they where the ones for freedom, the Soviets had their fingers deep within Europe and especially the UK for years, Stalin had his expansionist goals and got half of Europe, he plotted with Hitler and doublecrossed him, people don't actually forget that, they just don't realise it... | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:05:22 AM |
the aggressor is more likely to be caught than in a non CCTV area.
So, that's 'OK', then?............. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 6 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:10:27 AM |
So, that's 'OK', then?.............
I don't understand why you're being so aggressive. I didn't make the damned rules and I didn't install the CCTV systems.
If you want to know how effective CCTV is at fighting crime then watch any episode of crimewatch and see how many people are positively ID'd.
But this is also my point, we can all be ID'd and not just for crime.
You have no reason to have a go at me here so... Erm, don't!! | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:30:16 AM | National ID cards cannot and will not work. There are too many people, like myself, who would just refuse to have/carry them. Fining people for not carrying them is not a sensible idea. It seems to me that whoever is in power they will go ahead with this scheme as I'm sure its controlled by someone outside of politics.
Personally I don't like the direction that this country is heading. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:32:30 AM | i use cctv a lot at work
we also catch shoplifters next time they are in by reviewing cctv if empty packaging or stuff is found to be stolen,these people are id'd and watched closely the next time they ome in,and no doubt stealing so it is good to catch people after the fact,it doesnt seem to stop people doing it tho | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:33:33 AM |
CCTV.... Awesome for resolving crimes and keeping peopel safe, can't argue with that but. You now cannot go anywhere without being viewed and tracked.
True and I really can't decide whether I believe that it is better to be watched and safer than freer and more unsafe. I think it is a trade off
ID Cards... This will happen at some point in the future and there may even be fines for not carrying it.
As long as those of us who think it to be an invasion of civil liberties continue to kick up about it we will delay the day they come in, possibly indefinitely. The Government are already kicking the idea under the sofa. Course, I daresay the Tories will have an about turn and find a way to re-badge it when they get back into power.
Political Correctness.... They told us at the start of the 90's it was designed to promote diversity awareness but what it also does is restrict the way you are allowed to think. This is actually removing diverse ways of thinking from people. We all dislike racism and sexism etc but political correctness covers a lot more than just that and you will be in trouble for thinking in certain ways.
Thankfully, we can think whatever we like, legislation only kicks in against our behaviour. You say "we all dislike racism and sexism" sadly that is not the case and legislation prevents those who think a person is a second class citizen based on their colour or their sex cannot act overtly to treat them as such.
Health & Safety.... A persons health and safety is nothing more than common sense. Health and Safety laws are designed to restrict movement. You cannot do anything profesionally without the right qualification or license.
Quite right, H&S is about common sense. Unfortunately there are too many who don't appear to possess any, putting themselves and others at risk. Contenders for the Darwin Awards, as I said in another thread, have to be protected from themselves and from taking others with them. Again we can thank the devil-may-care, gung-ho attitude of a load of twats for most of what we have to face. In a professional sense it is quite right IMO, that a level of competence is displayed.
Not the start of a dictatorship, IMO but certainly cause for concern in some areas where civil liberties are being eroded. It's all very well saying if you haven't broken the law there is nothing to worry about. That assumes a benign government, which we might not always have. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:39:27 AM | as for health and safety
a lot of it needs to be inplace,especially where heavy machinery heights etc are involved
but,saying that a lot of stuff is due to the sue sue culture imported from america and employers having to cover their backs to avoid litigation | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 11 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:49:44 AM | All good points that detail the benefits of each individual thing that I listed. The big picture involving all of the issues and probably loads that I couldn't think of is the thing though.
Of course there are benefits to H&S and CCTV etc.... But we're not going to sit around quietly while they blatantly change the style of government. They tell of us of the benefits but we don't hear the full reasoning.
Supermarket store cards are a fantastic example.....
They tell you that your store card is for financial reward or air miles etc. And it's true. You do get those things.
But what do the supermarket get?
A full and complete profile of every single shopper.
From your store card they can tell which brand names you prefer, how much you spend on consumeable items, what days of the week you prefer to shop. When you check into the store and check your special offers they know what time you arrived. When you pay at the till they know what time you left and also which credit cards you use, which banks you use. Using their own CCTV they know what you look like. They know who the single mums are they know who the single dads are and the stage of life your children are at. They know how healthy you are or are not, they know more than you think.....
But you are as happy as larry because you get 2 for the price of one.
This is nothing to do with dictatorship but belive me when I say this (worked in the field)....
Your supermarket store card does a lot more for the supermarket than it does for you and the reason is that they can make more profit if they understand their customers. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:12:00 AM | I will set the big white bouncy bubble thing after you if you keep this up, number 13!
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:13:50 AM |
Stalin said.... First we have to watch the people, then we have to restrict the people.
Not read that quote before, are you sure its from Jo?. Just intrested as it dont appear on any net source i could find.
"It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes." Josef Stalin
However you do and dont like CCTV, you dont like ID ( dont grasp the legislation)and HSE ( comp-lety do not grasp what it is and why it exists) Political corectness ( you think it restricts how people can think!) and think that they are all part of a dictorship, i suggest you actually visit a dicatorship before you clutter up the forum with your nonsense.
Not one of those things was legislated aginst the will of the people, so try and use words correctly, (dictorship)you do have accerss to a dictionary right?. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 14 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:19:39 AM |
Not read that quote before
I was paraphrasing based on a group discussion a few weeks back where somebody did know the exact quote. Hence my admission on the following line about not exactly being clued up but.....
I think the theory is as sound as a pound :)
I am going to go try and find the exact quote. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:26:17 AM | Yes. Tis a terrible place that we have to live in, where we're filmed as we walk freely on the streets and the shops where we can buy almost anything keep records of us. Shocking. I'm going to write to my MP because I can - without fear of getting shot.
H.x | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 16 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:38:46 AM |
However you do and dont like CCTV, you dont like ID ( dont grasp the legislation)and HSE ( comp-lety do not grasp what it is and why it exists) Political corectness ( you think it restricts how people can think!) and think that they are all part of a dictorship, i suggest you actually visit a dicatorship before you clutter up the forum with your nonsense.
I didn't say that I dislike CCTV. Political correctness does affect they way people think and what is acceptably in society and it's been proven many times on this forum even in jokes that were unacceptable, you have no idea what my H&S 2009 qualifications are ;) and yep... Life is easier here than it is in an actual dictatorship... But for how long.
You came in here just flame me, how about adding your actual view if you're so knowledgeable. Or don't you have one? | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:49:33 AM | Well much as there is to moan about this country sometimes ... would rather be here than say China where the internet is filtered by the government or Iran where they are being shot for protesting and people are risking their lives to post footage of attrocities on LiveLeak .... we have it good here and I think too many take it for granted the massive freedoms we have. We can travel, use the internet, express our views, girls and women have the same education and advantages as boys and men, we can voice our objections to those in power without risk of imprisonment and torture. I don't understand why everyone seems hellbent on knocking this country, its not that bad  | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:58:22 AM |
You came in here just flame me,
Nope i posted to point out your posts are nonsense, they do not indicate that we are living in or likly to live in a dictatorship.
how about adding your actual view if you're so knowledgeable.
Haveing already done so on your points, repeating myself would serve what purpose?.
Or don't you have one?
Ok, no we do not live nor are we likly to live in a dictorship, and your opinion to the contary is not supported by your examples.
I didn't say that I dislike CCTV. Political correctness does affect they way people think and what is acceptably in society and it's been proven many times on this forum even in jokes that were unacceptable, you have no idea what my H&S 2009 qualifications are ;) and yep... Life is easier here than it is in an actual dictatorship... But for how long.
Your initial post shows what drew my comment on CCTV, and no legislation has now nor ever can prevent free will of thougts, and what has been proven to you is not proven to another, as some are offended and others are not , all are excercising their free will of thinking differently about the same posted material, so again your post is not helping your case, and i dont have to know what your qualifications are, i only have to read what you claim to support your posistion to know your not posting sense.
Simple question for you then, from your H&S 2009, show from it where the purpose of those laws are to restrict movement as you put it, while the legislation explains it "All workers have a right to work in places where risks
to their health and safety are properly controlled. Health
and safety is about stopping you getting hurt at work or
ill through work. Your employer is responsible for health
and safety, but you must help."
This to you equates to a dictorship right?. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 19 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:04:22 AM | ^ one tiny example Nick would be CSCS cards. Everybody is capable of manual work regardless of their academic skills. But not everybody is capable of academics. CSCS cards, while they serve a purpose have restricted the work life of many people.
I was recently made redundant. Right now I'd love to be accepting a labourers job because there are many and I just want some money rolling back in while I search for the job I actually want.
But I can't because I won't pay hundreds of pounds for a little piece of plastic.
My movement is restricted.
That was just of the top of my head. I have already said that all things in this post have a purpose. It's the purpose we have not been told about that makes things worrying. See the purpose of storecards in my earlier post for my exact way of thinking on this.
Thanks for you comments. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:18:26 AM | one tiny example Nick would be CSCS cards. Everybody is capable of manual work regardless of their academic skills. But not everybody is capable of academics. CSCS cards, while they serve a purpose have restricted the work life of many people.
I was recently made redundant. Right now I'd love to be accepting a labourers job because there are many and I just want some money rolling back in while I search for the job I actually want.
Well thats unfourtunate and i can see how i may be of help.
As your out of work, you can apply for and obtain free of charge the CSCS card through both the Job Centre (advisory descretionary fund upto 350 per year), or through a training provider if you attend a 13 week course ( you get travel and a training allowance of +15 per week) and they will through in courses and certificates for manul handling and health and safty, numeracy and literacy etc while you are there as well as help witha CV etc
Store cards have always allowed credit card companys and banks to track our buying habits so as to target us better, this is not indicative of a dictorship, but improved targeted selling of products, its no more sinister than your mobile being able to be used to show exactly where you are at any point in time. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 21 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:29:56 AM | I can't go to the skills trainers because the only one in our area are the company who made me redundant and I can't think of anything more uncomfortable than to be there as a client. For reasons I am still waiting to find out about I don't qualify for the discrentionary fund. I think this is something to do with a 5 month illness last year hence limited stamp. Not sure. The system isn't working for me that's for sure.
On top of this..... My bank have taken almost £200 off me due to charges resulting from redundancy but this is against the law (right of approproation). They refuse to admit that right of appropriation exists while the Job Centre and my council are adamant that the bank have acted ilegally and left me £52 to survive on for 4 weeks.
Add to those 2 things the fact that I have needed police support for crimes against me 6 times in the last 10 years and never even had a phone call. At the final straw (after righting to the Chief Constable) I started emailing my MP and the following day the police knocked on my door for hassling him. They won't solve my crimes but will come looking for me because I sent an email asking for help.
Of course my life and movement and ways of thinking are all restricted.
I didn't mean to sound as if store cards indicate dictatorship. But my way of thinking is that we accept store cards on the strength of it's rewards. But the rewards to the store are 100 fold and we don't get told about that because it could be seen as an invasion of privacy.
The store card idea and the way it works (what we know and what we dont) can also be applied to things like CCTV, PC and H&S. There are good reasons for all of them but it's the reasoning that we do not get told about that should be of concern.
Nice debate, cheers :) | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:35:33 AM | | Again, someone opens a post and some sock puppet offers his opinion with "your talking nonesense"...good start for debate that is...NOT... | |
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HenXX
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Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 23 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:45:34 AM | | Rob....To be honest,I dont really care if the store knows how many condoms a month I use or how many pints of milk.We both gain,ok maybe them more than us as they learn about the consumer needs but surely we gain with that as well, in the sense of bogofs and promotions? Wish they would check my listed items,could do with bogofs on the condoms! I see your way of thinking but is something like a store card really an invasion or am I misunderstanding? | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:46:19 AM | Rob Ok, your circumstances are highly unusual, the ADF is depenent on your specific advisor, and to my knowedge is not means tested, if you are on a income based, you get it, the problem then becomes one of convincing the advisor that you increase your chances of emplyment should they authorise the payement, in any event they have to give you a reason why not to award the payement.
You will after 6 months out of work have to attend a provider in any event, so why not vol for it now and get the card you want that much sooner and , because your 56 is less than the 75 or so while on a training course, you will be better of finacially, while the4 problem with your bank etc is resolved.
Lastly store cards etc, if it wasa dictorship you would be forced to have them all, where in fact you can chose to have none of them. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:51:55 AM |
Again, someone opens a post and some sock puppet offers his opinion with "your talking nonesense"...good start for debate that is...NOT...
Thank you for your contribution, however when i express my opinion that the facts do not support a c0ntention, its usual to makea rebuttal that show they do, if you read somewhere in the HSE legislation that the laws exist to limit movement, and this equates to a a point that supports we are living or moving tords liviung in a diictatorship, please contribute more of your opinion that this legislation in fact does show we are living in a dictorship.
If not dont bring your opinion to a fact fight. | |
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