| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:27:05 AM | Ok, well, I'll try to get this in a nutshell for you: (If you don't want to read throug the background story, just SKIP TO THE LAST SENTENCE )
I've known her for a year as friends. We now see each other everyday, or at least every other day or at the most every 2 days apart if our schedules don't match. But we talk and/or text as a couple every day.
Didn't start being a thing until May 3rd this year.
A couple weeks into it she reveals she's commitment phobic.
Says she doesn't deserve me.
So I didn't press it, and I let it go.
She comes back the very next day and doesn't want me to let it go.
So we remain together for the rest of the month of May.
Then the first week of June she begins to drift away from me, stops texting/replying/calling me.
It almost seemed like she found someone else.
So I give her an opening to get some "space." She takes it. In my mind I have to let it go, essentially.
Then the second week of June I get a what is essentially an official breakup text from her saying she "CAN'T DEFINE US," and that we "can't be close," but that this is "not goodbye" and then she writes "see you around."
Coincidentally she was on her way to California to visit friends. She eventually hopes to move down there to San Diego in about a year.
So I go through a several days of trying to let it go. I really missed her. It was hard.
I started just doing whatever I could to take my mind and my heart off it. Cuz I fell really hard for her. I hung out with friends and family, went out a lot, played my guitar and piano and sang a lot. Wrote a lot. Whatever I could do to take my mind off her.
Then the 3rd week of June after she comes back from california, she starts texting me and laying it on pretty thick. I try to play it cool, cuz I figure she just wants attention from me, and that she's just not really into me. She just misses my attention. But I caved in and eventually started replying, but still playing it cool.
This stupid game works, though. If I don't appear to go after her, then she starts going after me. Long story short, we got back together that week.
The past couple weeks have been intense. Very affectionate. Very "loving." Texts throughout the day saying we miss each other. Going out of our way to see each other. I thought things were great.
But there is a catch. She still won't introduce me to her friends or family as her man. In fact, she won't introduce me as her ANYTHING at all. Yet she says she "just wants me" and for all intents and purposes, by definition, everything we do, everything we are, points to the FACT that we are a COUPLE. But she won't acknowledge that we are!
It's already been two and a half months of this. For me, personally, this is more than enough time to at least define what we are. But what the heck are we, to her?
"just friends?" (we're definitely MORE than friends, she says, at least.)
"talking to each other?"
"seeing each other?"
"dating?"
"going steady?" (do people even use this phrase anymore? lol)
"boyfriend and girlfriend?"
"exclusive?"
Well, this has been an exercise in establishing personal boundaries for me, because I don't want to be strung along, used as a temporary place of comfort or attention. I don't date casually, generally. And in this case, my heart is already in it pretty deep. So last night I have a little heart to heart talk with her.
I tell her that I always end up playing the same role when it comes to relationships: temporary comfort guy. Mr. RIGHT NOW, never MR. RIGHT. Rebound guy. Superman rescue me guy. Just-For-Now-Until-She-Finds-Something-Better Guy. And I tell her, I don't want to be that guy anymore, which is why I want to establish some personal boundaries.
Essentially, I tell her I don't want to just be temporary guy. And along with that, I am the type of person, at this point in the relationship, that needs to have acknowledgment on our relationship status---whatever it is. I NEED that. Like me or hate me for it. I NEED to know what we are. Even if the answer is "We're NOT a couple."
I spend about an hour pouring my heart out to her. And I can tell it means a lot to her. She tears, and grabs me and embraces me, and kissed me passionately. I couldn't tell though if that was some sort of unspoken reassurance to let me know that, yes, we are a thing, or was it some sort of final goodbye embrace because she didn't have the heart to tell me that, yes, I'm just a temporary thing for her.
I don't know, because she LITERALLY SAID NOTHING. She couldn't say we ARE a couple. She couldn't even say we are NOT a couple. I asked her if she wanted to keep me. She said yes. I told her, "A rose by any other name is still a rose" bla bla bla......
She said she didn't want to say we are a couple just in case it doesn't work out because she doesn't want to break my heart.
I told her, whether she acknowledges it or not, what we are, what we do, how we feel, IS what a couple IS. So even if we don't work out down the road, whether she ever acknowledged us as a couple or not, it's already too late, my heart will endure the same either way.
She could not say we were a couple. She just couldn't. The best I could get out of her was that she just wants me, and that she's not leaving, and that "the only way she would go 'bye-bye' is if she died, or ends up moving to San Diego in about a year." (in which case, if we're serious by then, I would actually move there too, because, coincidentally, I had been thinking of moving there anyway).
So, we're supposed to spend time together this weekend, and continue whatever "this" is. I told her exactly where I stand. As long as I am "with" her, I have eyes for no one else. My heart is for no one else. That is the type of guy I am. As far as I'm concerned, we're together. She says "in her mind" we are too, but she cannot bring the words for her mouth to say it out loud.
My questions:
Should I just enjoy it for what it is? (we're a couple, but she won't acknowledge we are) In the back of my mind, though, I know this could be a set-up for disappointment for myself, in the long-run. because my heart is invested already. I want a LTR, not a temp thing.
Should I give her more time in the meantime, with hope she may eventually acknowledge us?
Or should I take her non-answer as a deal-breaker and move on? (I don't want to be strung along if I'm just being used as temporary attention).
So should I just enjoy the ride while it lasts? Give it more time? Or let it go? What would you do?
P.S. Note: the "L" word has already come to play on both sides, though honestly, she has only said it once, and only once, and since then uses other words to convey it instead of saying the actual word (she says "I Heart You" instead). I don't take this word lightly. At all. | |
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| Let go...Move on
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:37:52 AM | I think you need to understand WHY you aren't "the one"....but that doesn't matter. You aren't "the one".
I remember years ago I went to go see a shrink after divorce #1, when a woman I was very casually dating decided to not pursue things with me and instead emotionally attached herself to this bum of a guy (financially destitute thanks to his drinking and gambling habits, by her admission emotionally abusive, other issues). I was very vulnerable at this time...I married young and had no experience with dating as an "adult". I was deathly afraid that no one would want me because I wasn't cool enough or good looking enough...and this woman had stoked to fears into a raging fire.
"What is wrong with me that she doesn't want me?" I pleaded with the shrink. "What is wrong with me that I can't beat out a guy who is a total loser?"
(yes, yes, its true...I am a recovering "nice guy"...lol)
He replied, "What makes you so sure there is something wrong with you, and not wrong with her?"
Those words changed my life.
Not everyone woman is going to want you. Moreover, in some cases, the reasons why will be because they are "damaged". There is nothing you can do about this. Nothing you can do to change it. It isn't about you...and the reasons behind "it" don't concern you.
Let go. Move on. | |
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| Exactly what I am saying...
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:38:47 AM | When someone says this to you, believe them. You instead chose not to and apparently are suffering from that decision.
Next time, you'll know better.
...in fewer words.
ETA: This seems to be a pattern for you.
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts12346710.aspx
Go get some therapy. You need it, and I say that without a whiff of ill intent or maliciousness. You are not in a good place. | |
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| Exactly what I am saying...
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:44:27 AM | | I have to agree...in my life whenever someone has uttered the words 'I dont deserve you', they have always let me down, big time. If someone is feeling undeserving, it is for a reason. They cannot value a relationship if they do not first value themselves. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:47:09 AM | | The only way you have a chance of winning this for the long haul is to move on and let her decide whether she wants your next girlfriend to be her or someone else. Giving it more time will seal your fate as an also ran (if you haven't already done that). | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:47:56 AM | Your story reminds me of a saying I think about when I'm asking trying to figure something out: "if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got".
Nothing is going to change if nothing changes...that means you and how you choose to react to this. You have no control over what she does...but you do have control over how you choose to deal with this.
You really have a lot of choices and options, just depends on what you are looking for. If you are happy with going along for the ride with no expectations, then you can choose to do that. It's your business...and your choice...you shouldn't have to feel bad about that if it's what YOU WANT.
It's sounds to me like this situation is never going to evolve into what you are hoping for. Some people just like drama...they like the highs and the lows that come with this kind of relationship and if it's not there they will create it.
There is a lot of chemistry there obviously, and you miss her....but it doesn't sound like you are happy. Relationships should make you feel better, not worse.
I wish you lots of luck. I hope you find the love you deserve. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:56:47 AM | | Don't you want someone who is SURE she wants you and is able to say "I LOVE YOU"? " (I HEART you is a bunch of high school crap!) You certainly deserve it! Her hesitation is a BIG RED FLAG, in my opinion. I looked at your profile, and you have so much going for you, why wait around for someone wishy-washy. I say jump back in the game, and find your true soul mate. It's not her. Good luck!! | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 9:03:42 AM | I skipped to the last sentence.
I don't take this word lightly. At all.
It's actually a last sentence with a sentence fragment stuck on. I'm not sure what the word is that you don't take lightly, or why it matters how you take it. But for the sake of discussion, this being a forum for discussing things, let's say that word was, "juggernaut". From that word being used on a dating site I can safely assume you're talking about her performance in bed and the resulting insecurity you feel rising within yourself as you compare your feeble efforts to her grand accomplishments. In this light, being left undefined by her can only be a good thing. I'd give it two more tries. That will give you a fair chance to redeem yourself without taxing her generosity. All in all. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 9:29:13 AM | OP - you're the yo-yo in her little game. As long as you don't mind being the yo-yo, continue as is. If you are wanting more out of this, then go. She's already told you she is commitment-phobic. She refuses to let things go any further. You're at a crossroad now... with the decision to continue on the same path or take a turn and go another direction. She wants the same path... what do YOU want?
The relationship isn't going to change. You need to accept that. She's got some issues that she needs to figure out. Low self esteem being one of them (hence the comment, I don't deserve you).
At this juncture, it's your decision.
good luck.
PS - personally, I would want more out of the relationship and would wish her the best of luck as I say goodbye. But that's me. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 9:38:49 AM | Teh very definition of Insanity si doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. You keep jumping back into it over and over hoping she will change. People do not change unless they want to and it doesn't sound like she wants to. Either accept where you are in your relationship with her or move on. Likely you will never get her to say you are a couple. Someone else will move in and become the target of "I heart you" from her.
It sucks, unrequitted love is the most painful because unless you make a total break it never goes away or heals, like lost love, missed love, etc.
Good luck, you have some work ahead of you no matter what you decide. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 9:39:21 AM | A couple weeks into it she reveals she's commitment phobic.
She has already given you the answer you are looking for. She says she doesn't want a commitment, you do. Opposing goals,desires,wants, needs whatever you want to call it only leads to one or both of you being frustrated.
If you want to stay , change what you want.
If you want something different you need to end it and find someone who wants the same things that you do. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 9:47:50 AM | Hmm I dunno, sounds like all a Big Headache to me. I know you care for her but is your emotional state good enough to deal with such roller coaster of emotions. Sounds alot like she is using you for her own needs and doesn't give a flying flip about yours. Stop letting her rope you in every time she decides she wants you and lets you go when she wants to its not fair to you or your sanity. I don't care how special and pretty or whatever she is to you its not worth your time or effort if she doesn't put hers in. Dont waste your time on people like that, get someone who cares for you and respects you. Trust me if you continue with her later down the road you will be so angry with yourself about why you wasted all that time hoping for someone who never really cared for you anyway when you could of actually used that time to find the one who would.
Good Luck Fishey | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:04:32 AM | OK you seem pretty unhappy over this, so I say don't give her any more time. Why hang on hoping she'll change? What's with the label of "couple" anyway? How does that change anything? I myself would wait longer for a commitment. People are always on their best behavior for the first 6 months.
Find someone more suited to you. Dating a person, and hoping she'll change never works. I want someone to want me, not who he wants me to be. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:15:46 AM | I know this comes off as cold, but it's time to get rid of her or use her for sex.
She is certainly using you as a stop-gap. A way to get emotional intimacy without giving too much back. She's definitely waiting for the BBD (bigger, better deal)
You really need to lay out some goals and rules for relationships for yourself. Everyone tries to ad lib their relationships, but really some ground rules need to be laid. You can't just think with your feelings. So much of our emotional investment gets wrapped up in the rollercoaster ride anyway. You see this a ton especially in women. The hot and cold draws them in because they like the EMOTION rather than you. Is it that this woman is so awesome and that you really really love her for HER and her personality and everything she brings to the table, or because you fear finding other women or enjoy the radical emotions she provokes that are more exciting than every day life.
If you are there more for the ride than the person, bail.
If she is not really interested in YOU rather than your money or sex or is just lonely or or needs emotional intimacy from SOMEONE or whatever, bail. People really fail at choosing partners who are not genuinely interested in them. People are NOT above dating you for reasons other than actually liking you that much.
I don't know why people want to put up with these emotional basket cases. It's barely even a legitimate question. The question shouldn't be "what is she doing, what should i do;" it should be "why do i give a damn?" It's movies and the media teaching us we're supposed to operate based on emotions. It's simply a bad way to operate. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:31:23 AM | You have only really been dating for two months, many people are not ready to throw I Love You out there or make a full commitment in that length of time. But if you are so unhappy with her behavior then end it.
She is for some reason uncomfortable with the GF label, that usually means "I don't want to be dating this guy".
She is looking for someone else, she has not met him yet and may never meet him but all she knows is for some reason the spark is not there with you. She is acting cowardly because while she does like you as a friend and does not want to hurt you, she is not at a point in her life where she feels romantic love for you. | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:36:30 AM | IMO, this woman is ABNORMAL. There is something wrong with her. She treats you as if you are merely her “guilty pleasure”; someone “good enough” to see on the sly, but someone who would NEVER be part of HER ACTUAL LIFE. If she was into you, trust me, her friends and family would ALL know how much you mean to her; she wouldn’t keep you hidden away like a dirty little secret in a sock drawer. Personally, I think she is feeding off the attention you provide her; she is having a “relationship” with your adoration and affection; she is an attention whore and will be gone the nanosecond she finds someone else. People who provide the disclaimer “you’re too good for me” are telling you upfront that they are going to DUMP you.
"the only way she would go 'bye-bye' is if she died, or ends up moving to San Diego in about a year."
Yeah, “till Sea World do we part”. Nice to know Shamu holds a greater place in her heart than YOU.  | |
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| She WON'T DEFINE US...... how much MORE time should I give her?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:06:17 AM | tell her you love her and would like to be in a relationship with her and its too bad for both of you that she has committment issues. then tell her that you can still be friends but you can't spend time together like you have been, that you need to get focused on your own life.
now completely hold out. when she comes around again, stick to your guns and say "oh so you have thought about it and want to be my girlfriend?" if she hesitates say "look i'm busy, gotta go." remember no long drawn out explanations, you have already done that. keep your words short and sweet. give her 2 weeks.
this way you will find out if she is mature enough for you to continue investing your time and emotions. good luck. | |
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