| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:04:55 AM | Is this just an uneducated stupid impossible thought or could there be any possible way of powering something with electricity to produce more electricity than you put in?
I guess we would not have electric bills if this was possible but still i would like to know the answer.What percentage could you expect to get back from the most economical of possible generators?and why the loss ? | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:19:35 AM | Every system of generating electricity has losses. There's friction from the rotating parts, there's resistance in the wires, there's losses due to magnetic induction.
Simply put - there is no way, using current technology, to get more energy out of something than is put into it. You will always lose something in the conversion.
Using a generator to convert mechanical energy to electricity is, IIRC, somewhere in the neighbourhood of 60-75% efficient. Experimental magnetohydrodynamic systems (which use hot gases moving through a magnetic field to generate electricity) are in the 80% range. I don't have figures for direct thermal conversion... but I imagine that it would fare about as well as solar-cell technology, which runs in the 25-30% range. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:45:06 AM |
could there be any possible way of powering something with electricity to produce more electricity than you put in?
NO...It' called 'The law of conservation of energy'
What percentage could you expect to get back from the most economical of possible generators?
Most efficient...about 80% at best.
Why the loss?...mostly heat | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 10:06:28 AM | | There is a method of doing this with magnetism.Stepping up a battery to run your household power.It was done by a man in the states already but he has been halted at every attempt to get a patent for obvious reasons.Would love to get the basic design down and build one myself for just myself. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 10:15:25 AM |
There is a method of doing this with magnetism.Stepping up a battery to run your household power.It was done by a man in the states already but he has been halted at every attempt to get a patent for obvious reasons.Would love to get the basic design down and build one myself for just myself.
Sabbycat, I am not going to simply say "bullsh!t," even though it is. What I am going to say is, "show me."
Seriously, this kind of garbage is your response to almost every thread... conspiracy theories, suppressed knowledge, persecuted savants, mystical new age carp... Don't you think it's time you put up? Show me. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 10:28:32 AM | There was a documentary on the man on tv a few years back about the whole concept and the problems he faced getting a patent, he also had a web site that I checked out,I don't know if it's still around but i'll look.Ya ,most people who never look outside the box always feel that way but if I did I wouldn't have 3 patents myself,even engineers said my spoolvalve design would never work but it dose. The Matrix,made by Dye | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 10:41:00 AM | There is an actual device that is showing promise. It is called a Magnacoaster.
It does exactly what the OP is asking for. It takes electricity from a battery, then produces more electricity using coils and magnets.
http://www.vorktex.ca/page/277176203
The secret to our units is best described as the following :
Power if pulsed into coils in the right format can remove the fields from the windings.
The magnetic field will return and cause a higher voltage and amperage then the pulsed power.
You need to remove the AC power on the output as you can only output DC to the battery.
The battery is used as a treatment for the Frequency of the power as it is pulsed DC.
How it Works Laymans terms
Our Revolutionary Patented Process:
We pulse an electrical charge into a set of coils that are wrapped by neodymium magnets.
This pulse dissipates the internal field of the magnets.
When the pulse stops, the magnetic field returns creating a supercharged electric output.
We then collect this high output back from the coils.
This high output of power is then rectified and returned to the battery that it came from.
It was also featured on CBC's "Dragon's Den".
http://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/pitches/magnacoasters.html
It's a Canadian design that is going into production. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 10:42:50 AM | | Sure you can run a house off a battery. All you're doing is converting DC to AC and transforming the voltage. The total amount of energy available is the same. You'll drain the battery a lot faster. You're not gaining anything apart from some time to shut your computer down before the power failure does that for you. Hard to get a patent for something which was already patented well over a century ago and which is in everyday use pretty much everywhere. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 10:45:15 AM | | THX Super Ryan,woo hoo,go Canadians,,,^^^^^ Ya ,I already run my house like that(inverter) using solar and wind to recharge the batteries. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 11:19:47 AM |
Sure you can run a house off a battery. All you're doing is converting DC to AC and transforming the voltage. The total amount of energy available is the same. You'll drain the battery a lot faster. You're not gaining anything apart from some time to shut your computer down before the power failure does that for you. Hard to get a patent for something which was already patented well over a century ago and which is in everyday use pretty much everywhere.
Yes, though of course, people patent new kinds of transformers and inverters all of the time.
But just look at the diagram at the link (http://www.vorktex.ca/page/277176203). It has a solar cell in it. That's where the power comes from, folks. We know about solar cells, and there are already about a bazillion ways to take even a trickle from a solar cell and convert it into something you can pump back into the power grid.
The big problem with solar cells, of course, is that you have to run them for years to get more energy out of them than you used to make the solar cell in the first place. If that number of years is less than the lifetime of the solar cell, before it breaks or wears out, you're ahead. There's been a lot of work to improve solar cells, but they're still pretty small beer compared to a steam turbine or wind turbine and generator. No matter how efficient you make the inverter, you still have to deal with the low return for energy investment you get from a solar cell. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 11:52:39 AM | | Yeah that's just a transformer. It would interesting to see if its any more efficient than a coil based transformer. In the colder climates you better of using solar heat collectors to offset heating costs. A double wall glass pipe painted black on the inside has a really good ROI. The best solar cells are something like 14% efficient. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 12:59:02 PM | | Looked at it too.The solar cell charges 1 battery and that battery is used to charge a larger bank of batteries.In my system I found I needed an 80 watt panel for every 2 12v batteries.With the magnacoaster I could use the same amount of panels I have now to charge a much larger bank of batteries instead of installing more panels every time I increased the size of my battery bank. Very cool.I use an Aims pure sine wave inverter to change 12 v to 120v to run the house,If Aims is involved I will definitely consider buying one instead of more solar panels. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 1:02:03 PM |
Not precisely - since you're ADDING energy, in the form of fuel, to the equation.
Technically, you're adding mass and then converting it into energy, powering the process with electricity and converting the resulting energy back into (much more) electricity. Electricity Out > Electricity In. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 1:05:57 PM | Is this just an uneducated stupid impossible thought or could there be any possible way of powering something with electricity to produce more electricity than you put in?
No, you can only end up with less than you put in.
There is a method of doing this with magnetism.Stepping up a battery to run your household power.It was done by a man in the states already but he has been halted at every attempt to get a patent for obvious reasons.
The most obvious being that the claim is fraudulent.
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:14:28 PM | I have more information on the Magnacoaster.
http://www.examiner.com/x-8199-Breakthrough-Energy-Examiner~y2009m7d11-Magnacoaster-Vorktex-nearing-commercial-rollout
Richard pointed out that because the circuits do not involve the use of fuel, technically, the net system can qualify as "solar" when it comes to the regulations and certification requirements for sale and installation, circumventing the need for a separate qualifying process that would probably take at least five years.
It's not that they need the solar input to run. Richard claims that they've run their prototypes in a self-looped manner, running the system itself off the battery the system is then charging, and pulling a load off that same battery. But they can't sell that, because then they have to go through the rigmarole of testing, measuring, quantifying, proving, field-testing, certifying, etc. The funny thing, though, is that the hybrid solar device would work even if no sun shown at all, ever.
So there you have it. The solar panels only real function is to avoid red tape. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:35:27 PM | Sounds like the "red tape" might fairly be interpretted as "scientific evaluation. It sounds like a perpetual motion machine, which is impossible according to the laws of physics. Rather than dodging red tape, the solar panels add energy to the system. Does it work without solare energy? Maybe. That's what batteries are for.
Looks suspiciously like some legerdemain to pull the wool over uncritical eyes. Disconnect the solar panel permanently, see how long it lasts.
Richard claims that they've run their prototypes in a self-looped manner
"Claims" being the operative word. Where's the evidence?
But they can't sell that, because then they have to go through the rigmarole of testing, measuring, quantifying, proving, field-testing, certifying, etc.
Did they not go through all this when "they've run their prototypes". Shouldn't be a big deal to actually allow an independant and unbiased evaluator do so. What are the odds the actual reason for dodging this is fraudulent claims?
is that the hybrid solar device would work even if no sun shown at all, ever
Says who? The inventor? How did he prove this? Who confirmed it? | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:54:24 PM |
Richard pointed out that because the circuits do not involve the use of fuel, technically, the net system can qualify as "solar" when it
Gee, according to the website, they claim 90% efficiency, so apparently the only function of the device is to waste 10% of the power from a battery. All for only $20,000.00. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:59:38 PM | Nice. From the Vorktex owner's manual:
(Question)
My batteries have gone dead, what should I do?
(Answer)
Disconnect all the cables and use a regular battery charger to put a 2
amp charge in the batteries, one at a time, for 24 hours per battery.
Look to make sure you have the batteries and the Vorktex sized right
to match the load you are drawing off of the system.
This is supposed to multiply the electricity available? Granted that a battery drain would still be possible, but it still seems unlikely. What seems apparent is that the inventors have created an explanation in advance for the failure of their perpetual energy machine. If it ceases to be "perpetual", it's because you overused it. What's the cure? Plug the battery into the wall and charge it up! So ultimately, all the elctricity is STILL coming of the public grid, supplemented slightly by the solar panel they claim is unnecessary!
This part is amusing:
(Question)
Where did the word vortex come from?
(Answer)
Richard wanted to brand the unit to stand apart from the crowd.
They misspell their brand name in their owner's manual comment on ...the brand name!
From the warranty:
We are not responsible
for units that are damaged due to improper hookup. We are not liable for any damage
to batteries or inverters due to improper hookup. We are not liable for any damage to
batteries or inverters due to improper sized units and batteries. We are not liable for
any damage in shipping. We are not liable for any loss due to loss of power or
operation of the unit.
Pages 11-17 of the 22 page manual are nothing but how to hook up batteries! AND, you have choose and purchase your batteries separately according to your own judgement, AND supply your own inverter, AND you have to strip, solder, and otherwise hook up your own unit! It looks as if the manufacturers are maximizing your chance for failure. If anything goes wrong, it's YOUR fault, not their likely fraudulent claims. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 4:50:27 PM |
So there you have it. The solar panels only real function is to avoid red tape.
If that's the claim, then it's fraudulent.
I don't believe that a free energy device is possible, given the laws of physics. However, what is even more difficult to believe is how people imagine that, if such a device were possible, that the inventor would give a rat's about patents and red tape. If I had a free energy device, I would simply rule the universe. Screw patents. I'd simply build some and make a huge amount of money off of selling the electricity. Then I'd build some ion drive spacecraft.
I suggest that those who believe in free energy invest heavily in it. | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 5:10:44 PM | It appears that many of you are still struggling with this free energy device. I can explain how it works and how to build one…You can run your house, your car and never have to worry about a fuel bill again.
Just email me and I will give you a bank account number where you can deposit $50, at which point I will forward you the instructions.
I’m gona be rich  | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 5:53:32 PM | | i work around transmission lines... i like to think of myself as faily familar with electricity... but i do not know a way to use electricity to make more elctricity... the law on conservation of energy denies this from hapening... but i did go to a ranch where a guy was lighting his barn with neon lights that where being charged by the induction off the transmission lines... like the fellow about said... its not a efficent system... energy loss come from so many things, heat, sound, resistance in the lines, induction threw the atmopher... they have to step up the voltage every soo often soo the hole line stay equally energized... but if you are looking for some cool free energy ideas... look up dr tesla.... it will be hard to find, cause the goverment tried to erasse him from history, for he would not help make wepons... teslas dream was to put electricity in the homes of everyone without the use of wires or generators... he had a method i dont understand to pull energy from the atmopher... im not sure how he did it.... but he did... but think for a second... how happy do you think the power comapanies of north america would be if everybody had free power... its all about the allmight dollar these days, and if you did find a way to create free power... im sure the goverment would buy it or take it from you... i almost positive | |
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| Generating electricity from electricity
Posted: 7/12/2009 5:59:10 PM | | See what you do is bury wire in a loop perpendicular to a high tension power line. Instant free energy. At least till they track it down and arrest you. | |
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