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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:20:12 AM | A childhood friend, Sandy, and I have recurring discussions about the fact that I have a close companionship with a man and that I don't like to broadcast it. She thinks I should just sit him down for 'the talk' to define where he & I are at. I've known him over 4 years. We began as very occasionally social - maybe once every month or less. At that time I was very clingy, awkward and, I'm sure, annoying. He told me he wanted only friendship with me, that's all.
A few years after that, he began to contact me much more frequently, and things have felt warm & happy. Still, tho', that friendship boundary is so etched in my mind, I don't dare bring it up with him for fear that he will give me that same 'speech'. It hurts, and it spoils the sweet rapport; he might withdraw if he's concerned I am expecting something more. Whether I want more or not, the reality is where he's at, and honouring that.
It's not that I don't believe he prefers to be friends. That's what he said, I respect that and made a decision to appreciate him where he's at.
It's that I'm enjoying the little 'spark' we have developed, and I don't want to screw it up by putting him on the spot with questions about 'where we are going'. I see it this way ~ my options are still open. I can meet any guy I want, and there's nothing to say I can't go on dates with other guys. If my guy friend is feeling something else, it would definitely show up if I saw another guy, so I really don't feel the need to get cards on the table.
My girl friend disagrees strongly, saying I ought to get a 'one way or another' answer from him, because then I can 'move on' from him if he's not interested in more. I already know what he'd say, so I don't want to tax the comfort we have. Obviously I feel a bit deeper than he has, but I would rather have him as a friend than not at all.
Sandy thinks there's more to him and me than just friends, from what I say about the time he & I spend together. She thinks I'm in denial about it and am being too secretive. If it were up to her, she'd sit him down and demand that he open up about his feelings for me. I'm just glad she doesn't live anywhere near us, because I'm sure she would not let me continue to hang out with him and not say I'm hoping for dates, and it would be a disaster. The woman doesn't get the concept of letting things be.
How do I get her to understand that everything does not have to be out loud? That sometimes it's best to just observe and adjust? That's what I did.... s-l-o-w-l-y. | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 8:42:54 AM | It's simple:
If your friend wants to date him fine. If it is you seeing the guy and in a relationship of some form (yes, friendship is a relationship), then she needs to but out.
Every person has different needs, feelings, interpretations of a relationship. Her perspective should not be yours, unless by coincidence.
If it were you complaining about the status of your relationship then effect changes.
If it is your girlfriend who is not satisfied with the relationship, too bad for her.
If you have been and are building a very strong friendship with this guy then that is great. Some friendships can outlast a marriage.
A successful marriage can and should start with a great friendship.
If you are secure in your friendship with this guy then you should be able to approach him and tell him how YOU (not your friend) are thinking / feeling.
If you cannot be satisfied with his responses then you must decide on your next course of action.
A true friend you can discuss anything with.
A future life partner, you can discuss anything with.
After four years, it should stand the test. | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 8:50:28 AM | If a person is "afraid" to discuss their feelings with someone they call a friend or hope to have a relationship with, then there's a problem. The problem sounds like you'd prefer to live in fantasy land than reality.
Women who cling to men, saying they'd rather have him as a friend than not at all are accepting crumbs.
Sandy is right. | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:07:05 AM | | He is happy with the way things are, if he wanted more he would tell you. This is the friend zone guys talk about all the time, you're not going to move out of that zone because he doesn't feel that desire for you that would lead to more. | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:32:25 AM | Why do you care what Sandy thinks or understands? If you're ok with things as they are, it's not her business to tell you what to do.
Sometimes you can get answers more subtly than with words...flirt a little with the guy and see what happens! | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:49:32 AM |
This is the friend zone guys talk about all the time
Men don't have friend zones that are inescapable.
www.laddertheory.com | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 12:15:52 PM |
He is happy with the way things are, if he wanted more he would tell you. This is not in dispute.
I just don't want Sandy to get in the middle and think she has to help me take things further with my guy friend. As I said, I understand his position, and I have no intention of imposing anything on it.
He wouldn't be, by the way, the first man who had been my friend for years and then date me, but the present is what I'm accepting, regardless of being attracted to him. Love can't be manufactured or forced.
Not wanting to talk to him about my deeper feelings is not fear: it's respect. We've already had that discussion so why go there again? I'm not interested in tension or drama with him.
Sandy is my longest-known friend, and she's been down her own tough roads. Now she's happily married and I guess she just really wishes the same for me, so when she sees me not making any effort to move forward with him, she gets frustrated and thinks she has to light a fire under me.
He's fun, sweet and easy to be with. Sure, I could tell him I'm still nuts about him, but then he would feel sad because he has to say that same thing again, and he'd get too careful about anything he does in case I misinterpret it.
He is happy with the way things are, if he wanted more he would tell you. Exactly.
I have nothing to lose by enjoying his company just for its own sake. If he grows into a deeper affection for me through knowing me better, as you say, he'll tell me.
Thanks for the input.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 12:56:46 PM | Is this guy a friend with benefits? Or is he really just a friend you like to hang out with?
If he is really only a friend, then look elsewhere for a romantic love interest. After 4 years he is definately not interested in moving into a sexual relationship with you.
If he is a friend with benefits, then why would he change things??? seeing as he has the sex without the committment. If this is the case, and you want more of a relationship than that, then sadly you are deceiving yourself or letting yourself be used, or both.
As far as your girlfriends advice, she is perhaps reading between the lines because she knows more detailed information, or has a clue the man is gay. Maybe she is just a good friend by looking out for your interests, since you are in denial of the reality.
You need to understand she is not in this relationship with the guy, and since she has never met him, then you need to stop trying to make her understand. | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 2:33:25 PM | misszmsz, Firstly, I honestly do appreciate that you're trying to advise me, so thank you.
Is this guy a friend with benefits? Or is he really just a friend you like to hang out with? Absolutely not. We are just good friends. I've stated that clearly. I don't do the FWB thing.
If he is really only a friend, then look elsewhere for a romantic love interest. After 4 years he is definitely not interested in moving into a sexual relationship with you.
You need to understand she is not in this relationship with the guy, and since she has never met him, then you need to stop trying to make her understand. ok then ... how is it you understand him and what he's about? It's kind of a generalization to assume how a stranger operates socially, don't you think?
since you are in denial of the reality. Once more, I'm fully aware of the reality. My having feelings that are on another level does not mean I'm kidding myself about his. As I said, we've already had that discussion a few years ago. I enjoy the way he makes me feel, but there's a line I don't cross because I respect him, and I want his company. Either I've gotten very skilled at governing my emotions, or he's beginning to bond more deeply, because three years ago he pretty much wanted nothing to do with me. I'm not doing this all by myself. We just got back from a great weekend in Seattle, and everyone who sees us together just takes for granted that we're tight. We're friends who enjoy each other's company, so I'm okay with that. Why is this a problem for my friend Sandy?
Howcome it has to be either/or?? .. FWB. *Bah!*
There's no reason I should end this friendship with him. I'm not in denial: I know what we are, and I've chosen to accept it. If other people (e.g. Sandy) think I can't be happy unless I have a romance ~ just so I won't be alone ~ they don't understand that I have a great affection with him, not just for him. Except for the romantic part, our relationship is mutual.
My basic point is that I want Sandy, my oldest and dearest friend who's like a sister, to see that I want to let my guy friend and I enjoy things just the way they are, without having to put labels on it. Whatever will be will be, and I don't try to predict anything.
Thanks again.
------------------------------ PS ----------------------------------
If it seems like I'm contradicting myself by saying I accept just friends, but think it's always possible to evolve with a friend, it's because it's not the first time I've had that happen. I had a boyfriend years ago (until he died)who had been 'just a friend' for 8 years. Just sayin' it happens. It's rare, but it happens. | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 2:45:30 PM |
I just don't want Sandy to get in the middle and think she has to help me take things further with my guy friend.
My basic point is that I want Sandy, my oldest and dearest friend who's like a sister, to see that I want to let my guy friend and I enjoy things just the way they are, without having to put labels on it.
Well then, just tell HER... firmly... that you hear what she's saying, and you don't want to hear it any more.
Then, YOU leave that subject (anything about him) off the stove, and whenever she trys to put it back on the burner, just say.. firmly.. we disagree on that subject and I've told you it's not going to get stirred up any more. | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 3:01:47 PM |
Still, tho', that friendship boundary is so etched in my mind, I don't dare bring it up with him for fear that he will give me that same 'speech'. It hurts, and it spoils the sweet rapport; he might withdraw if he's concerned I am expecting something more. Whether I want more or not, the reality is where he's at, and honouring that.
It is beyond me why people don't just tell each other how they feel. No ultimatums or
agendas. Just tell him what you wrote here and how you feel, and talk about it.
It sounds like YOU are afraid to honor YOURself and do what's best for you. It sounds like you are afraid of telling him because you believe deep down that he will not want more than he has now. You only have this one life, and if you were happy where you are , you wouldn't be writing this, OP. IMO | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 3:24:54 PM | Hi OP
I think where your freind is trying to help you (maybe misguided in the how?) is that she thinks you are "settling" and maybe being taken advantage of?
From the way you described your feelings; you did press in the beginning which made him crowded and made him back off.
Yes, if you "crowded" him in the beginning; you want him to not feel invaded or pushed; that part I do understand.
But where I maybe see her point is that you have gone the other extreme. From wanting your comfort zone at his expense (crowding) to totally shutting down your own comfort zone in deference to his (having absolutely no ability to voice anything you want; you are just settling for whatever he is willing to dole out).
In this "friendship, relationsihp, whatever it is", you no longer have any ownership or a voice or rights; you are on tenderhooks to "not mess it up".
I am guessing this is where she's concerned.
You can spend time with someone; you can do whatever you want with someone. But when they take your time and your company for granted with absolutely no communication on what it is; where they are hanging with you while fully keeping their options open and their eyes open, well, I think she wants you to be aware of if this is where he's at (I'm suspecting this is exactly where she thinks he's at; and I'm also suspecting she thinks you are WAY undervaluing yourself).
It is your business, not hers. It is your call not hers. But I will ask you this, if the shoe were on the other foot adn you saw someone who was hanging onto status quo for fear of messing it up; being afraid to voice their own wants; know that the other person has full and total control, and know that the one person does not seem to care about their own comfort zone or wants or needs at all, well, how would you advise them? And if it turns out he IS seeing you as more than a friend and you didn't know it, wouldn't you want to know that too?
do you deserve any less than you'd ask of them?
In some ways, it would be nice if you DID put the cards on the table; to find out if you have a voice yet or not (assuing and proving that you do not morph into the clingy expectation person). If someone is going to always need to drive the rules, the boundaries and the relationsihp with no input from you, do you want to be a woman of convenience? If that's ok with you, then fine. more power to you. But if you think you deserve a little more than that so you can maybe shift the relationship in your mind so you can move on romantically while staying friends in a better for you way, maybe this wouldn't be such a bad thing...
because if you still don't have a voice after all this time of giving space and allowing comfort level and trust to grow; I can't help but wonder if you'll ever get one...
best of luck
mbl | |
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Posted: 7/16/2009 4:12:49 PM |
How do I get her to understand that everything does not have to be out loud?
By explaining to her that fake relationships are necessarily in your life so you can feel a sense of control and enjoyment by having an unquestioned reciprocating user relationship.
It might not work for her, and it might not be healthy in the long term, but it works for you now.
That sometimes it's best to just observe and adjust?
Some people were born to be self deluding mice. The world needs ditch diggers. Sometimes it's best to just not vote. In the saying "either cut bait or fish" some people do choose to cut bait. In the saying "lead, follow, or get out of the way," some people think getting out of the way is the ideal solution. | |
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