| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 6:39:30 AM | | Will try to make this is short as possible. Was involved with a man from California and I am from Canada. We met in Buffalo around Christmas and it was awkward and we were shy and we parted our ways and went home but still continued the relationship.It started out amazing and we had alot of things in common such as values, morals and things we enjoyed. Both of us have children and we pretty much on the same wave length as far as parenting. His children reside with him because the mother was unfit. (drugs etc)He was a very intense person and had to have me literally on the phone 24/7 and wanted to know my every move. Accused me continously of being unfaithful when I 100% was not. Good lord I had a phone to my ear for 10 mths. There was many warning flags for me I should have seen I suppose but I let them go for eg. he was suppose to come across to Canada when we met but was stopped at border and literally told to get out of car and was sent back saying do not ever try to get into Canada again.(he said traffic violations but later said a little more) So this is why we ended up meeting in Buffalo. As the relationship went on and yes many frsutrating moments where we wouldn't speak but we would again chalking it up to frustration of not being together. This man had asked me to marry him had sent me a diamond ring (yes real) and was so obsessive about me. He wanted me to leave my family and raise his because his kids needed a mother. Things started to cool and he drastically turned around and became distant and blaming me for so much time on the phone, and told me that it had been a honeymoon stage (fully aware of what that is) and said I needed to face reality with the realitionship. His words "I did what I had to do to get you... now I have you) I started to see things like hearing him constantly yelling at his kids, having alot of trouble with them. (both kids at 13 and 16 expelled from school for being mouthy and he feels they don't really need to be in a school setting) I could go on but he cooled his jets did not treat me with the respect I feel I deserve but still professed to love me. I finally got enough backbone to end it and basically pointed out the things that concerned me about his past and the present told him we needed to cut ties and he had said don't call me or text me ever again. I agreed. Since then he has sent me texts which he never normally does of distorted pictures of me making me look like something out of a horror movie (some morph program) and pictures that look like he took from another photograph of him with two women drapped at his side that look like Hooter girls. I guess I am disillusioned and trying to understand such intensity and undying love to such distance , coldness, and outright being cruel. And trust me this man will make you think he knows Psychology 101 to the point you think your the one with the problem. I am by far not a perfect person but this relationship drained me and I feel I wasted so much time. I feel hurt and disappointed .Why do men or women (notice I said both before I get bashed) go to such lengths to be involved with someone then drastically turn. Is it me and am I missing something here? | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 7:17:36 AM | Yes, it's you and yes, you missed a lot of somethings.
Kim, he didn't suddenly turn. You, yourself, said there were warning flags flying everywhere but you chose to ignore them. Next time, don't ignore them. Anyone who isn't allowed into your country, should make you question your judgment. Anyone who's children are expelled from school and doesn't think that's a problem, should make you question whether you want this person around your own kids. Obviously, you aren't on the same wavelength in parenting unless you scream at your children and allow them not to attend school. Anyone who continually badgers you about where you've been and whether you've been faithful, is showing an insecure nature and the lack of trust will destroy any relationship. If you are uncomfortable with a man when you meet him, trust your instinct.
Next time, pay attention to the warning signs. They are there for a reason. They mean that something is NOT right. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 7:28:41 AM | Holy shit!
OK...I normally don't use THAT word but damn woman--YOU'RE IN MY AGE GROUP!! I thought that this was some 20 yr old girl going on and on...WTF???
You couldn't be that desperate to have ignored the biggest red flag of all--he couldn't freaking go to CANADA??? And you still met him? Holy shit. Yeah I said it again...
Disillusioned? Jesus...this wasn't a relationship baby. This was...waterboarding. You know, where the person being tortured is dunked into water until they submit or drown? You almost drowned.
Please, please, please...you haven't missed a damn thing. Well yeah you did--probably a marriage of abuse. Stop trying to analyze something that's so obvious and realize that you escaped and need to stop, regroup and understand one thing:
NO ONE TREATS SOMEONE THEY LOVE LIKE SHIT.
You can't justify that to me in any manner. The first red flag you glossed over was the phone issue...and the hits just kept coming. Unfit mother, bad ass kids, can't go to another country--I'm STILL trying to figure out why the HELL you didn't run right then!!!
No one needs love this much. Do they???? | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 7:51:20 AM | afashionlady
No I don't scream at my kids in fact my kids would over hear him if I was speaking to him and say "Mom I am glad you don't talk to us like that" Ironically one of the reasons he said he respect me so much was because of the way I was with my kids. My kids are all well adjusted teenagers. Have four teenagers and two have graduated. One with honours. But I value your advice and as I said have ended the relationship. Most of this as I said went from night to day with me being accused of not understanding the "honeymoon phase" He used that term alot among others. This man had an answer for everything and was very good at making you the problem. In fact joking (so he said) his words "I am always right" Coming from a previous relationship that was not exactly wonderful I found myself caught up in one again. Exactly why I ended it but it was difficult when they come across as decent human beings and end up being evil. Guess I am either blind or a sucker for these type of men. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 7:54:49 AM |
He wanted me to leave my family and raise his because his kids needed a mother.
And you stayed with him after he told you this? | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 8:00:56 AM | | He had told me if my kids wanted to come and live with him then he was more then happy to have that take place. Keep in mind my teenagers are 21 and 19 and twins that are 15. As I said I am no longer with this person and for obvious reasons including what you just asked me. Regardless of the age of my children I would not subject them to this type of relationship and when I would bring up how I felt he was wrong in his dealings with his own he would tell me he would always have the last word when it came down to it. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 8:20:19 AM | No no baby...Not YOU...HIM. He's the dumb ass. You're the one who sounds like you have some sense. NOW.
Don't denigrate yourself by saying you're a sucker for these type of men either. Please don't. Men will sense that right away and you'll be back here telling us about another one.
You have to remember that people show themselves...eventually. And that when they do show their true selves, don't ignore it. You've learned a really good lesson.
You can't understand human nature. Ask the professionals. They'll tell you the same thing. Just when you think you know someone they "change". They don't change--they're just being their real self. That's when you need to pay attention.
Hell, I don't know anyone who can honestly say they've not made a relationship mistake of some sort. I have a good friend who had hers for 10 long ass years...all because she refused to see the red flags he kept beating her up with (emotionally). The sad part is that this wasn't even her HUSBAND...just a boyfriend.
It's up to you to NOT repeat your mistake. Remember that your kids watch and learn from your example. You know that though.
Be well and continue to grow...ok? | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 8:28:24 AM | | Thank you afashionlady. I appreciate your being direct and honest. Yes I have learned and I guess part of why I posted this is last night when I was sleeping he sends dum ass pictures of me as I said morphed into something that makes me look like I could be in some horror movie and I text back to just leave things be and that it shows his lack of maturity he continued with pictures he obviously had laying around the house with some hooter girls in a restaurant hanging off him thinking I would assume he was at that moment with them. I just basically told him to run along and enjoy his new women and to please leave me alone. He eventually stopped but it hurts non the less that someone can be like Jekyll and Hyde. Oh well C'est La Vie. LOL | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 8:41:13 AM | Kim,
Don't try to understand this man, just be so happy that you dodged that bullet. Things like this happen to people who are trusting to the point of seeing red flags as invitations to soothe others. Some of us women have had success in all types of relationships and have things to offer in a romantic relationship as well. We have things to offer so we forget that we also need things from our partner. I suggest you sit down right now and make that list. Don't forget to list the obvious things as well, as in "available" for instance. Good luck!   | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 8:42:18 AM | OP, first, if that was "keeping it short", I'd hate to see what it would have been, had you given the "long" version. 
Second, paragraph breaks are your friend. That was all just one big blob of text.
Third, having travelled to Canada frequently, on business, for a number of years, I know that it's rare to see someone from the United States turned away at the border. In fact, having made close to 100 border crossings into Canada, I never noticed anyone turned away. I personally knew one guy, who as a very young man had been convicted of a felony in the U.S., who was able to cross the border on a regular basis.
So, the fact that he was turned away at the border would be, for me, a huge red flag. Add to that, you had one "not so great" in person meeting, and from there, he asked you to marry him and sent you a ring?
Those two things alone, would make me wonder about an emotional disorder of some sort. The current behavior, with the distorted pictures and nasty texts would confirm that suspicion.
As painful as all this may be, you dodged a bullet. I know that things can seem very real over the phone, but ultimately, a relationship develops with time spent together in person. Based on the one time you met, it was unwise to fall headlong into things, without first having shared quite a bit more time in person. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 8:52:09 AM | | Yes I know and I am no way shape or form bashing the US but he was very good at explaining away why he couldn't get across. But I just kept thinking our border is one of the easiest and friendliest boreders to get across. Didn't make any sense to me. And funny when I brought up my being skeptical about it he basically said I was coming across as Canadians were somehow better then the US. Hmmm was not at all what I was saying in any way shape or form. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 9:44:37 AM | OP,
To repeat what others have said, what you are missing in this is WHY you ignored the immense number of red flags, starting at the very beginning. Denied boarder crossing?
As to him, you might read online about borderline personality disorder (just a guess). | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 9:51:43 AM | | There is so much more to this story and I cannot post it all or I am pretty sure the thread would be deleted and I would bore and aggravate numerous people. Its enough I even posted. Afraid of these forums.Was just looking for some advice and opinions is all. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 9:55:36 AM |
you might read online about borderline personality disorder (just a guess).
Much as I hate to "diagnose" with incomplete information, the behavior described in the OP is "not inconsistent" with BPD. It certainly sounds like the split white/split black dynamic.
Whatever he has, the real point is that he is emotionally unstable, and not someone to have in your life. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 10:04:46 AM | OP, l think we all at one time or another ignored a red flag. Relationships by design, should teach us more about ourselves because we still walk away not understanding the opposite sex.
lt seems to me you think he changed from Jekyl to Hyde when in fact, he did not. l bet in the past, you thought it would be great to have a guy want to be on the phone with you 24/7. Having the phone to your ear 10 hours a day was the beginning of recognizing his compulsive controlling behavior.
He wanted someone to raise his children and used your desire for a relationship to reel you in. The way he treated his own children was another clue. You expect that he is capable of treating you better than he treats his own blood? The photos he sent shows a disturbed mind and you should be so happy to have dodged this bullet!
l suspect you may be the kind of woman who likes to heal broken men or fix something about them or you need to feel needed. l know you are hurting, but l am so happy for you that this did not work out! | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 2:10:56 PM | OP, based on your description, it sounds like your ex's behavior exhibits strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I agree with Bicoastal and RenaisanceMan that we cannot determine whether those traits are so strong as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, because you are simply wanting to protect yourself, a clinical diagnosis is not necessary. To decide whether someone is too selfish, for example, you don't have know whether that selfishness rises to the level warranting a clinical diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Similarly, once you understand how to identify BPD traits, you do not need to be a trained therapist to decide whether someone exhibits them too strongly to be a good marriage partner.
Because you are "trying to understand" why a man can express "undying love" one minute and then "drastically turn" on you the next, I encourage you to read about BPD. This flipping from one extreme emotion (adoring you) to its polar opposite (hating you) -- within only 15 seconds or less -- is a hallmark of BPD. It occurs because BPD sufferers have an unstable and weak sense of who they are -- and because they have an extreme fear of intimacy and abandonment.
This means that, as you drew close, your ex felt he was being suffocated and engulfed by your strong personality. Yet, when you backed off a little to give him space, you triggered his intense fear of abandonment. This likely gave rise to the pushing-away and pulling-you-back behavior you describe. Such behavior is reflected in the titles of classic books on this subject: "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me." Like you, I tried repeatedly to find the middle ground where neither of those fears would be triggered in my ex. Sadly, it took me 16 years to learn that, when BPD traits are strong, there is little or no middle ground. If it exists at all, it can be a knife edge.
Because BPD sufferers have a very weak ego, they initially adopt the personality and preferences of any person they are attracted to -- a behavior called "mirroring." Hence, for six months, you will think you have met your "soul mate." That may explain why you intially felt that the two of you "had alot of things in common such as values, morals and things." And, because BPD sufferers tend to be extremely passionate, that honeymoon period likely was better than any romance movie you have ever seen. But then you will pay big time as his idolizing period starts alternating with the periods in which he demonizes you. He cannot avoid doing this because BPD distorts his perception of you.
Moreover, BPD renders him unable to trust anyone, which means you can never convince him of your love. This is consistent with your comment that he often acused you of being unfaithful that he "had to have me literally on the phone 24/7 and wanted to know my every move." That inability to trust, combined with his fear of abandonment, can cause him to regard all your friends and family as potential threats to his relationship with you. It therefore is not surprising you say "he wanted me to leave my family."
Further, the weak ego makes it scary -- even painful -- for BPD sufferers to admit to making a mistake or having a flaw. They therefore will try to persuade you that every problem is your fault. Their defensive arguments often become so twisted and inconsistent with reality that they have an Alice-in-Wonderland quality to them. But BPD sufferers often are so articulate and skilled in presenting arguments that the non-BPD spouses start questioning their own sanity. This would explain your statement that "this man will make you think he knows Psychology 101 to the point you think you're the one with the problem."
With BPD sufferers, emotional memory is so short that they cannot appreciate the hundreds of things you have done for them. Their current emotions are so intense that memories of past emotions seem not to exist. Instead, they remember (at an emotional level) only what you have done for them in the past week or so. Hence, it's always "What have you done for me lately?" This is why you can never build up a lasting reserve of "good will" from which to draw during bad times.
If you want to learn more about BPD, you could click on my "History" to the left and read my many posts about this affliction. You would do much better, however, to read what trained therapists have to say. I therefore suggest you start with the short article at BPDfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm. It is the best concise description of what a relationship is like with a person who has high functioning bpd. Another excellent description is at curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=780158.
Good information also is provided at BPDCentral.com and BPD411.org. Both sites are targeted at non-BPD spouses and ex-partners like you and me.
Finally, I should observe that BPD is almost always caused by molestation or some form of abandonment experienced in childhood. This causes the victim (usually young girls) to hold onto to their childhood defense mechanisms (e.g., splitting and mirroring) so strongly that they become emotionally stunted -- unable to adopt the more mature emotional defenses that the rest of us move on to. Hence, they suffer as children and end up suffering 24/7 the rest of their lives, being unable to sustain close personal relationships. It is important, then, that you and I not add to their suffering. After all, we can walk away from it. They cannot. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 2:52:39 PM | DowntownDc--they suffer as children and end up suffering 24/7 the rest of their lives, being unable to sustain close personal relationships. It is important, then, that you and I not add to their suffering. After all, we can walk away from it. They cannot.
Post #16 by DowntownDC was the best, and most complete post on the topic of BPD that I have ever seen. So, in no way do I want to take away from it.
The only thing I wanted to clarify for the OP, was the part quoted above.
Much as BPD's crave intimacy, and invest a lot of magical thinking into having one, it is intimacy that triggers their most intense feelings. Since you didn't cause those feelings, you can't fix them. You can't love him enough to overcome his disorder, even though his intense abandonment fear will encourage you to keep "trying harder". It's a bottomless pit of need.
So, in the end, the kindest thing you can do is to leave, not have any further contact, and get on with your life. He really will be better off in the long run.
The only other thing to add is that if you, like many in the aftermath of a relationship with a BPD are struggling with "what could I have done?" or "why did this happen?" etc., of all the books and resources that DowntownDC mentioned, "Stop Walking on Eggshells----taking back control of your life, when someone you know has BPD" is the best place to start. It's written for a lay person and the general public, has sold well over a million copies, and is available in the psychology section of any major bookstore in the U.S. or Canada.
I always mention that book, when the subject of BPD comes up. I've been surprised a few times, often months later, to receive an email from someone who went out and got the book, and is now writing to me to say "thank you" for mentioning it, because it made such a big difference in their lives. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 3:00:42 PM | WOW ! Thank you so much. This pretty much describes his behaviour. I mean even where you mention about him not remembering the things that have been said or the closeness and mutual understanding. He would say "I never said those things" "What are you talking about?" I would literally second guess myself knowing full well what was said. I may be old but not that old.
I knew in my heart as time went on and I was constantly under stress trying to reassure him day and night I was faithful , cared for him etc etc only to feel anxious and unsure. The thought of uprooting all I have ever known here and leaving family only added to it and my common sense was telling me if he does this now what will I be in for when I get there.
His constant cursing in the last cpl of mths to his two children would completely distress me. He would say do you see the stress I am under being a only parent. I could go on and on but I am just glad I got the courage to move on. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 3:07:29 PM | RenaissanceMan and DowntownDC, I salute you! Fabulous posts.
Kim, best of luck to you! | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 5:39:22 PM | RenaissanceMan and Bicoastal, thanks so much for the kind words. And, RenaissanceMan, thank you for clarifying my statement about the OP being able to walk away from the affliction while her ex cannot. As you correctly point out, "walking away" is exactly what she should have done -- and having done it, she now should not feel guilty but, rather, feel proud of having such strong personal boundaries and a healthy level of self respect.
I made the statement only to emphasize that, like the OP, the ex is a victim of the affliction because it is not something of his choosing. Instead, it is a thought disorder that was entrenched in early childhood. Although years of therapy can greatly reduce its severity, very few BPD sufferers are sufficiently self-aware to seek therapy. As I explained above, the very nature of the affliction makes it exceedingly painful for them to tolerate the notion that they have a serious flaw -- much less a flaw that others run screaming from.
Thanks, also, for clarifying that BPD sufferers actually crave intimacy, something I neglected to mention when explaining their tremendous fear of intimacy. Like all of us, they have a powerful need to be loved and thus desperately want an intimate relationship. So, as you clearly explain, they "invest a lot of magical thinking into having one." Magical thinking is necessary because, having an unstable self image, they feel engulfed by any lover's strong personality -- feeling that they are merging and disappearing into that other person.
Yes, I know -- such a paradox (i.e., craving what you most fear) is difficult to comprehend. But we can often gain some understanding of paradoxes by finding a poetic reference to them using terms and concepts we already understand. Fortunately, Incubus682 provides the needed poetic description in another thread on this Forum. He writes, "When a BPD talks about intimacy, it's like a vampire talking about sunrise: every one of them wants to see one, but they are frightened to because it means death if they do." This is why you correctly caution the OP that she can't fix him and "can't love him enough to overcome his disorder." Yes, trying to help him by loving him is like trying to help a burn patient by hugging him. | |
|
| Trying to Understand
Posted: 7/18/2009 6:33:47 PM | Here is my contribution to BPD radar:
1.They claim to love you way too quickly. Propose marriage way too soon.
2. You get the vague sense that they have put you on a pedestal.
3. As wonderful as they seem to be, they have a history of intense, failed relationships.
4. They seem to enthusiastically share ALL your interests, even when there is evidence that they did not have these interests in the past.
5. Sex will be incredible, over-the-top fantastic.
6. They change their "stories" and deny (with great conviction) your memory of what they said in the past.
Found this in another post thread and it totally screamed back at me. !! This is exactly word for word what happened. Although did not have really the time as far as the sex goes since we met only once and it was awkward.
I also read they will have the feelings of grandoise. I know with him he had this obsession with politics and the news to the point he would rant and rave and I would get so agitated I would shove the phone under the pillow. He was always right no matter who he was speaking about. He had a huge thing about Obama being elected. I just learned to keep my mouth shut to avoid arguements.
Also had a thing with telling me he was not racist but also ranted about black people which would make me very angry because I am not racist in any way shape or form. It shocked me one day when he came out with I would never let my daughters marry a black man. Thats like breeding a pitbull with a mutt. I was shocked and when I brought it up he would attack me saying are you calling me racist?????? | |
|
|
Home
login 
