| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 2:58:24 AM | I've had this discussion with one of my friends many times. He is in to nascar. I'm in to imports etc.. I'm totally for turbos and he is superchargers.
What do you think is more efficient?
What makes the most hp??
Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
lol
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 3:57:17 AM | Turbochargers and superchargers are in a sense, a type of vacuum turbine device which sucks air into the carburetor thereby boosting the power of the engine.
A turbocharger is run by an electric motor which turns the blades of the fan to suck in the air. There are quite a few road cars which come with turbochargers to boost engine power for short periods.
A supercharger is powered from a belt connected directly to the cars engine itself. There are no road cars that I know of today, which come with superchargers as standard equipment.
If you've seen the Mad Max movies, the V8 Interceptor Max drove was supercharged. They show Max throwing a switch which causes the belt to connect to the drive shaft.
Supercharging has been around for a long time. The old Duesenbergs had superchargers. A lot of the old WWII fighter planes used superchargers, the P-38 is a notable example.
Neither turbo or supercharging is very good for fuel consumption. Superchargers are more efficient for boosting power however. There are few top fuel dragsters or any other racing cars which use turbochargers. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 4:01:08 AM | | I thought turbos were more effecient since they dont rob horsepower to make more power? turbos run off of the exhaust,and superchargers run off of a belt system,depending on which kind of supercharger it is(centrifugal or roots) | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 4:47:53 AM | Truth ,, you're right... Turbos run off of the exhaust.
If you want a Turbo charger to last very long, you will need an oil pressure reservoir..
When you turn off the engine and the oil is no-longer being sent to the bearings in the turbo ,,, the bearings fail..
Therefore , you need to supply oil to the bearings while the turbo is winding down.
This is done with an oil pressure reservoir that holds some of the oil and feeds it to the bearings when you turn off the engine.
A supercharger is capable of building more power but a turbo will last longer as long as its bearings are lubed properly. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:18:38 AM | How are youn going to make all those cool sounds when everything goes Electric...
Whats the Datona 500 gonna sound like running electric cars?
I wonder what the Screeches of the Last Dinosaurs on earth sounded like? | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:18:50 AM | There are a couple cars they have came out recently that have both turbos and superchargers.
The ford cobra is one of them that comes stock with a supercharger. also chevy has one the chevy cobalt ss model comes stock with a supercharger.
as far as turbochargers go just about every car company has a turbo model.
I myself have own 6 Turbocharged cars. Mostly DSM but i have also owned a Volkswagen that had a 1.8t.
As far as power goes a 4cyc with a turbo can make just as much as a big block with a supercharger. Now as far as efficiency I think turbo are more then superchargers.
Like he said the supercharger is ran off the motor so everytime you put the peddle down your putting stress on that motor You have to have horsepower to make horsepower it has to spin that supercharger.
Now turbos Run off exhuast and cold air and of course fuel. but as you put your foot down on the peddle there is less stress on the motor because all the power is coming from the turbo which is sucking in lots of air dumping it in to the exhuast which in returns spins it faster.
So hp now right? You would think a Big block 454 w/supercharger could push about 1000hp let's say which wt's about 500 pounds of course built corrcetly.
So now let's say a 4 cyc w/a big ass turbo could do the same about 1000hp but would be about half the wt and again it would have to be built corrcetly.
So now you get in to wt which is a whole another story
but I think turbos are better less stress on the motor because you don't need hp to make hp you just need air and fuel  | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:21:23 AM | | theres nothing electric!! turbos don't have electric motors they are simple they run off air and fuel! the only thing electric is air/fuel controller and boost controller and whatever else you have to manage your car. but sooner or later they will put turbos on nascars!! just watch!! ;] | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:28:33 AM | I should have replyed to nebula post sorry guys for the many post.
But he is right about the oil but there are turbo timers that are prob the best thing to have with owning a turbocharger car. Its a little gaget that has settings on it that will keep your car running after you have turned it off. Which in returns pumps oil threw your turbo and keeps it nice and lubed!! ;] as far as more building more hp I would beg to differ!! I've seen lots of turbo cars pump out the same hp as a big block like i stated in my post above!
Streetfire.net is a great car website click on dyno vids most cars on there are turbocharged and put down some serious numbers | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:39:50 AM | turbos are exaust driven only..no fuel lines or electric motors
supercharchargers are belt drive...great for v8 and manual trans
there have been hundreds of factory performance cars built with efi with both sc and tc
buick grand national...3.8 v6 turbo
suburu..flat 4 turbos
toyota TRD superchargers
ford lightning 5.4 sc | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:49:21 AM | yeah that's what I ment sorry i'm tired and havnt gone to sleep yet. But I love the Nationals! those are one of my fav cars!! but your right there's tons of cars all of my dsm where early 90's and they all came with turbos.
Does your boat haul ass?? lol ever seen those turbo sea doos? my buddy has one does like 70 i think. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:59:57 AM |
Turbochargers and superchargers are in a sense, a type of vacuum turbine device which sucks air into the carburetor thereby boosting the power of the engine.
A turbocharger is run by an electric motor which turns the blades of the fan to suck in the air. There are quite a few road cars which come with turbochargers to boost engine power for short periods.
A supercharger is powered from a belt connected directly to the cars engine itself. There are no road cars that I know of today, which come with superchargers as standard equipment.
If you've seen the Mad Max movies, the V8 Interceptor Max drove was supercharged. They show Max throwing a switch which causes the belt to connect to the drive shaft.
Supercharging has been around for a long time. The old Duesenbergs had superchargers. A lot of the old WWII fighter planes used superchargers, the P-38 is a notable example.
Neither turbo or supercharging is very good for fuel consumption. Superchargers are more efficient for boosting power however. There are few top fuel dragsters or any other racing cars which use turbochargers
Not all cars use carbs, in fact I can't think of any off of the top of my head that are TC and use a carb. Maybe an old Z car or something.
Turbos are usually run off of the exhaust. That's why there's blow off valves so the exhaust pressure has a place to go while shifting. Your SC are going to come on high end/performance domestics. Ford especially, such as the Ford Lighting.
From what I've seen TC are actually slightly more efficient. TC are more efficient at higher RPMs and SC are better at low due to how they opperate. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:18:59 AM | It is a proven fact that the turbo is both more efficient as well as allows for more total horsepower to be generated.
A turbo does not put strain on the crank from a pulley system
A turbo does not cause parasitic hp loss to turn
A turbo is friendlier to driveline parts because it hits more gradually, so traction off the line is usually easier to achieve.
A turbo car is a lot more DD friendly as you can dial the boost down without swapping pullies. I have a friend who would DD his 800whp civic. I drove the car once and it was VERY sedate and quite driveable if you kept your foot out of it.
As far as "american vs. import" How fast do you want to go? How much can you afford? Me personally, I drive a 6-speed WS6 and will never own another American car. From here on out, it's either German or Italian once I graduate, unless the new NSX just really does it for me. I don't see why anyone would buy American if they had the money not to have to unless they own stock or something. I'm tired of shoddy workmanship. It's time for the American automotive industry to either die already, or learn why they suck and fix it. So far I have seen no evidence of the latter except longer warrenties from companies that are probably going to be liquidated before they expire. Every C6 'vette I have looked at looks like a shade-tree bondo-man fixed her up after a near totalling accident the panels line up so poorly. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:22:51 AM |
I thought turbos were more effecient since they dont rob horsepower to make more power? turbos run off of the exhaust,and superchargers run off of a belt system,depending on which kind of supercharger it is(centrifugal or roots)
Thats correct. TC do however create some back pressure in the exhaust system which "uses up" some engin power in a different way. I usually both SC systems using belts, but IIRC there were some gear driven Roots systems. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:37:27 AM |
Ditch the rice burners.
Get a small block GM, Ford or Chrysler engine and you wonr need either.
The new tech superchargers are pretty good.
GM had a turbo car in 1961.
The Oldsmobile Jetfire.
Don't forget the Buick Gran National | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:41:16 AM | Get a G8 then.
If you want some quality.
I wont buy jap.
They have never had an original idea.
Only a handful of classics and cars that are collectable.
Nsx was an ok car, but how much is it worth now?
The G8 is no faster than my WS6, if so, only by a small margin. My next car will be an upgrade all the way around. Also, the G8 is cheaper than a vette, and made by a company that is now gone. Pontiac is dead and closed. Why would I want one? I have not inspected one, but I bet it is made just as poorly as the last '09 'vette I looked at. Junk.
NSX can be had cheap, several young guys around town roll them, but they are pretty slow. I was referring to the new one that is proposed for 2010-12 IIRC.
I will say that the new mustangs have decent build quality it seems. Just very heavy and no horsepower or suspension to speak of and the 5-speed in the stock ones...who has a 5-speed anymore? lol. The Cobra is a total pig weighing more than my first car--a crown vic. Having played with the new SHelby Cobra on the freeway, I am unimpressed. Mercedes makes a 4-door passenger car that would destroy it. The Cobra I ran put about 3-4 cars on me 65-115. Very unimpressed considering my car is 8 years old, 130K miles, bone stock.
CTS-V is still a luxury sedan, not a sports car. I have not up-close looked at one, maybe it is held to higher standards than the 'vette. I can only hope so. By sports-car, I mean something with 2 doors. The XLR-V is a "sports car", but woefully underpowered for the price it commands.
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to the below,
all out racing, I agree, but for a daily driver, the import is much nicer and just as fast. My friend's civic ran 10's at almost 140mph yet had a wonderful full interior and working A/C and everything. Took him to and from work every day just fine. Try running 10's at 139mph in your domestic old-school muscle and get DD performance from it like that. Not happening. Oh, that timeslip was with a slipping clutch and some serious leakdown issues. He re-did the engine and now makes 100whp more. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:43:25 AM |
As far as power goes a 4cyc with a turbo can make just as much as a big block with a supercharger. Now as far as efficiency I think turbo are more then superchargers
So hp now right? You would think a Big block 454 w/supercharger could push about 1000hp let's say which wt's about 500 pounds of course built corrcetly.
So now let's say a 4 cyc w/a big ass turbo could do the same about 1000hp but would be about half the wt and again it would have to be built corrcetly.
Its easier to get power out of a bigger engin. You can get a ton of power out of small engines, but its going to be harder and more costly.
With the money saved building up a SC BB you could lighten to car up some. Also with older cars you don't have half the crap that you do on newer cars which saves weight. Look at curb weights on different vechicals and you'd probably be surprized at how close some of them are. Smaller doesn't always mean lighter. Look at the Honda Civic ('90s) compared to the Del Sol. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:44:23 AM | The G8 is made by Holden in Australia.
and rumor is they may give it to Chevrolet as a Caprice SS.
Ford Aus also has some good muscle cars, both Turbo 6 and V8 Falcon.
Pity you get the Taurus
Also the CTS-V.
A great car. | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 9:11:37 AM | Midas well go for the best of both worlds like the old Screamin' Jimmies! Supercharged AND turbocharged!
That said, some of the ignorance in this thread is a bit funny, but overall I tend to lean towards turbochargers as being the better option overall. Since they operate fundamentally on the heat of combustion, they only significant produce boost when you actually need boost. No need to be turning a supercharger to push extra air into your engine when you are just cruising along down the highway at light throttle. Yes, turbo lag can be a bit of a bother, but your turbo is sized for your engine (or if you run twins), lag can be reduced significantly. As far as the whole seizing bearings up bit goes -- It is with good reason you are supposed to idle your turbocharged engine for several minutes prior to shut down. That gives the engine the opportunity to pump oil through the turbocharger, which cools it down significantly. The biggest concern with shutting it down hot is coking the oil within the turbo by literally boiling it off. That creates nasty sludge and sometimes hard particles which will tear the bearings up real quickly.
Superchargers do have their place (on the track where you need boost right off the get go, and all the way down the strip), and the old school roots chargers are ultimately just ridiculously cool. Centrifugal super chargers are pretty nifty too, save a lot of space in the engine compartment, but there is just something about that chrome giant sticking through the hood that just screams "Muscle".
BTW, there is no such thing as an electric switch to actuate a clutch for a supercharger, they are on at all times! One of my biggest pet peeves with that movie!
Personally, I run two turbocharged diesel engines. One is a mid 80s Chevy 6.2L that I retrofitted a GM-3 turbocharger onto, and the other is my 07 Chevy Duramax with a variable vane turbocharger right from the factory. The power gains on my old 6.2L were undeniable. Took it from being a totally anemic engine that got good fuel economy to a torque monster of an engine that will keep up with any near stock Chevy 350 no problem, and still gets amazing fuel economy (over 22 mpg with a truck that has the aerodynamics of a flying brick, and 38.5" tires) | |
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| Ok for all the Gear Heads!! Turbocharger OR Supercharger?
Posted: 7/20/2009 9:27:55 AM | Ya great Aussie movie Mad Max with the XB Falcon coupe.
but the switch on and off supercharger is bs.
People are importing those Falcon coupes into America now.
building mad max clones (which i dont like), they look better original. | |
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