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| Racism........... Really? [CLOSED Thread]
Posted: 7/20/2009 2:27:20 PM | From the AP......
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jNR4dcq5sivgbez2rttRVWtTMXoAD99ICMF01
Henry Louis Gates Jr., the nation's pre-eminent black scholar, is accusing Cambridge police of racism after he was arrested while trying to force open the locked front door of his home near Harvard University.
Cambridge police were called to the home Thursday afternoon after a woman reported seeing a man "wedging his shoulder into the front door as to pry the door open," according to a police report.
An officer ordered the man to identify himself, and Gates refused, according to the report. Gates began calling the officer a racist and said repeatedly, "This is what happens to black men in America."
Officers said they tried to calm down the 58-year-old academic, who responded, "You don't know who you're messing with," according to the police report.
Gates was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he "exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior." He was released later that day on his own recognizance and arraignment was scheduled for Aug. 26.
Wow....... a person that is attempting to break into a house is stopped by police, he refuses to cooperate or identify himself and is then arrested for disorderly conduct after accusing the police of racism......then has the gall to accuse the police of racism????
And this is the behavior of a scholar?
Many of Gates' African-American colleagues believe his arrest is part of a pattern of racial profiling in Cambridge, said Allen Counter, who has taught neuroscience at Harvard for 25 years.
Counter has said he was stopped on campus by two Harvard police officers in 2004 after being mistaken for a robbery suspect. They threatened to arrest him when he could not produce identification.
Let me get this straight. If the police are looking for a black robbery suspect and Mr Counter looks similar to the suspect and he is stopped for questioning it is racial profiling and racism? Threatening to arrest Mr. counter when he could not produce identification appears to be prudent to me.
We do not believe that this arrest would have happened if professor Gates was white
Actually, this would not have happened if Professor Gates had cooperated with the Police when they were simply trying to protect his property. The arrest would not have happened had Professor Gates not chosen to act like an as*hat. You would think an academic professional would understand this simple concept. Perhaps he feels that because of his professional standing he was above the law.
Racism still exists in America. But, why go looking for it in places where it doesn't exist? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 2:33:33 PM | Wow....... a person that is attempting to break into a house is stopped by police,
Didnt the article say he was trying to get to His house...Is it illegal to break-into your own house? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 2:41:03 PM | IF this wasnt turned around into a racist issue I would be laughing.
Many years ago a friend of my ex and I needed to borrow some tools. My ex said yea they in the garage. About 3 mins after the friend lifted the garage door he was told to halt and get down on the floor(Neighborhood Watch called)...Poor guy couldnt even remember our address(How many of you have a good friend you visit frequently and dont know the address of ).
About an hour later my ex laughingly got our friend out of the back of police car(he was in a business meeting).
Where we mad at the neighbors----H3LL no!!! Was our friend? Not really, especially after he put into perspective. If someone had busted into that garage with about an hour to load up a truck they would have gotten away with close to $50,000 in professional tools.
Like I said in another thread too many are filing way too many lawsuits. It needs to stop and we need to start appreciating those who are doing their best to protect us. Sometimes what they do incovenices us --like a speeding ticket, needing to id yourself when you forgot your key...But hey would you want them not to care at all.
Oh by the way my friend is white and so are we. And yes he was nicely dressed in jeans and clean t-shirt. One officer was black and one was white. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 2:42:24 PM |
Didnt the article say he was trying to get to His house...Is it illegal to break-into your own house?
Correct, it was his house. However, the Police were not aware of that when they were called there by someone in the neighborhood.
Gates refused to identify himself so there was no way the police could know it was his house. His immediate response was to cry racism.
He was not arrested for the attempted break in. Rather he was arrested for Disorderly Conduct for his behavior.
Come on, you are smarter than that lame response. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 2:58:05 PM |
Come on, you are smarter than that lame response.
come on, youre smater than this lame thread. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 3:00:58 PM | An officer ordered the man to identify himself, and Gates refused, according to the report. Gates began calling the officer a racist and said repeatedly, "This is what happens to black men in America."
Sounds like for all of his scholarly ways, he has nothing that resembles common sense. People like this fool that make bonehead decisions and then cry racism when natural consequences arise are a huge part of what keeps racial tension going in an era where it should really be a dead concept.
When a cop sees you trying to force your way into a house, it's generally a pretty good idea to prove to him that you live there. So he knows you're not a criminal. That's not racism, that's common sense.
I actually experienced a similar thing to this personally not all that long ago. My girlfriend and I were sitting in my car outside her house at 3:00 in the morning when a cop rolled by. There had been a rash of robberies on that street recently, so naturally we looked suspicious just sitting there in the middle of the night. When he asked if either of us lived there, my girlfriend showed him her I.D. And guess what, he said thanks and went on his way.
And in case anyone wants to play the race card here and assume he left us alone because we were white, my girlfriend is half Mexican.
Didnt the article say he was trying to get to His house...Is it illegal to break-into your own house?
No, but that was the point. The cop didn't know it was his house. And rather than identifying himself and proving that he lived there, he threw a little temper tantrum and screamed racism. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 3:05:09 PM | Really, he's hollering racism? Didn't a cop light up my car like a Christmas tree the other night after I was putting junk mail in a recycle bin??
I am a white female. I was by the Bridgeview Park District where they have a Paper Retriever dumpster. I am a Janitor so yes I come out at night. The officer was only making sure I was not trying to break in or vandalize the place. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 3:13:12 PM | Must have been an oversite by the OP; he forgot to add this part of the story:
Many of Gates' African-American colleagues believe his arrest is part of a pattern of racial profiling in Cambridge, said Allen Counter, who has taught neuroscience at Harvard for 25 years.
Counter has said he was stopped on campus by two Harvard police officers in 2004 after being mistaken for a robbery suspect. They threatened to arrest him when he could not produce identification.
"We do not believe that this arrest would have happened if professor Gates was white," Counter said. "It really has been very unsettling for African-Americans throughout Harvard and throughout Cambridge that this happened."
Counter said he spoke to Gates, who told him police continued to question him after he showed them his license and Harvard identification.
"They did not believe him when he said that he was in his own home," Counter said. "He was totally mistreated in this incident."
Wonder how long the neighbor has lived near Henry Louis Gates, if he didn't recognize him?
He isn't exactly unknown in the neighborhood.
This happened at 12:44 p.m--not the middle of the night, it's a wonder some of those gathered to watch didn't recognize Gates.
A bit more about Dr. Gates:
Gates is the director of Harvard University's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research and served for 15 years as chairman of what is now the Department of African and African American Research. He joined the Harvard faculty in 1991 and holds one of 20 prestigious "university professors" positions at the school.
He also was host of "African American Lives," a PBS show about the family histories of prominent U.S. blacks. Time magazine named him one of the 25 most influential Americans in 1997.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
This, too, should be reported:
By the time police arrived, the professor was already inside his home. The officer asked him to identify himself, but he allegedly refused. According to the police report, Professor Gates then called the officer a racist and said: “This is what happens to black men in America.”
Friends told The Boston Globe that Professor Gates had shown his driving licence and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into custody for several hours...
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 3:28:41 PM | Hey if I started yelling an officer, calling him names I would expect the cuffs very quickly even if I was in my own home.
With any servant of the law I have been taught to be polite, even when you feel it's not your fault.
Case in point ----At the age of 16 I was arrested with a group of African Americans. I kept quiet and kept my kewl, even thought I was learning a lot of nasty language from the police officers. Language directed at me and a few other of my sister's friends. The year was 1965, an all white dinner which I was sitting at with friends who just happened to be of another color...Was that racist YEP....
Now turn the clock forward....We need to stop being so idiotic times have changed quite a bit. Is there still some racism in the world and America YEP!!
However, too many are calling wolf. This is hurting it for others
I looked up the story and the Professor was way out of line. Maybe because of past happenings or ??? but his confrontational and belligerence to the officers made the situation escalate.
Why could he not be polite and be thankful that the officers were taking time to make sure all was really safe at his residence. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 3:29:03 PM |
By the time police arrived, the professor was already inside his home. The officer asked him to identify himself, but he allegedly refused. According to the police report, Professor Gates then called the officer a racist and said: “This is what happens to black men in America.”
Friends told The Boston Globe that Professor Gates had shown his driving licence and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into custody for several hours...
So let me get this straight. The officer and the police report claim he refused to identify himself. But Gates and a bunch of his friends claim he showed the officer everything and was still harassed.
Hmm..... | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 3:59:57 PM |
Must have been an oversite by the OP; he forgot to add this part of the story:
First of all it was not an oversight. The fact that he eventually showed his identification was not germane to the discussion. He originally refused to show identification and called the police racist. I quoted the highlights of the article and posted the link to the rest. I did not see the need to quote it all.
Wonder how long the neighbor has lived near Henry Louis Gates, if he didn't recognize him?
He isn't exactly unknown in the neighborhood.
This happened at 12:44 p.m--not the middle of the night, it's a wonder some of those gathered to watch didn't recognize Gates.
From the article:
Cambridge police were called to the home Thursday afternoon after a woman reported seeing a man "wedging his shoulder into the front door as to pry the door open," according to a police report.
The article says a woman. Not a neighbor. And really, it is of no consequence who called, unless you are accusing the woman who called of racism.
The article does not say there was anyone gathered to watch. If there were observers they would have appeared after gate had refused to identify himself and then his subsequent providing of identification. Therefore rendering this point moot.
A bit more about Dr. Gates:
What does anything about Gates credentials have to do with anything? Gates refused to identify himself to the police. As far as the officers were concerned they had an unidentified intruder. Gates credentials were/are inconsequential.
A bit more about Dr. Gates:
Friends told The Boston Globe that Professor Gates had shown his driving licence and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into custody for several hours...
So we have second hand hearsay information?
Again, Gates was arrested because he initially refused to show his identification and called the Police racists. The fact that he eventually showed his identification is irrelevant. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 4:01:54 PM |
Now turn the clock forward....We need to stop being so idiotic times have changed quite a bit.
Quite a bit? How much is "quite a bit"?
Do you mean "quite a bit" as in this?
Documentary shows U.S. students battle against racism
As Barack Obama campaigned to become the first black U.S. president, teenagers in the small Mississippi hometown of Hollywood star Morgan Freeman battled racism to hold their high school's first integrated prom.
A new documentary, Prom Night in Mississippi, shows the students confronting racist attitudes in Charleston after school administrators let them decide if they wanted to accept Freeman's offer to pay for an integrated prom - an annual dance for gradusting students. Freeman's first such offer a decade earlier had been ignored.
While the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1954 that school segregation was unconstitutional, proms could still be held separately for black and white Charleston High School students because they were organized by parents, not the school.
"I think this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of that in this time ... you children are being brought up this way. It hurts me deeply," the film shows Freeman, the Oscar-winning African-American actor, telling senior students when he made his offer for the 2008 prom.
The documentary will be broadcast on the HBO network tonight (*that's tonight, July 20th*).
Canadian director Paul Saltzman, who volunteered as a civil rights worker in Mississippi in 1965, said that the prom organized each year for white students was always completely off limits to black students.
"But the black proms were never segregated. Whites could always go but almost never did because of social pressures in the town," he said.
Reuters
54 years after school desegragation was made unlawful, with the President federalizing State NG's to enforce it; 40+ years after the civil rights movement reached full steam, there were still racially segregated senior proms in the U.S. (but in this case, only the white proms were formally segregated).
So let me get this straight. The officer and the police report claim he refused to identify himself. But Gates and a bunch of his friends claim he showed the officer everything and was still harassed.
Hmm.....
And still some will question the veracity of statements such as this...
Friends told The Boston Globe that Professor Gates had shown his driving licence and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into custody for several hours...
... as if it couldn't have been that way? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 4:31:22 PM | "Now turn the clock forward....We need to stop being so idiotic times have changed quite a bit."
"Quite a bit? How much is "quite a bit"?
Do you mean "quite a bit" as in this?""
Someone didnt read a post fully. And someone forgot the sentence following....WHY would you do that..... For the post said in the sentence IMMEDIATELY following ----- Is there still some racism in the world and America YEP!!
I wonder why the YEP was capitalized and reason for the punciuation after YEP!!.
Ty Ty for the misquote....Ty so Very Much ....
Quite a bit means that we no longer have two high schools just blocks apart; one for blacks and one for whites. We no longer have two water fountains one for whites and one for blacks. We no longer have two restrooms; one for blacks and one for whites.
Hey in the South you were not even considered human if you were black in the 60s and prior...
Is everything perfect as to Racism NO!! Will it ever be --- PROBABLY NOT!!!
Like I said in another thread
Racism and Racists is not just due to color. Racism can and does flow both ways.
Technically Racism can and does rear its ugly head in regards to all colors(white, black, brown & etc) all religions (Christian, Muslim, Buddists, atheists, and etc) gender (male or female), sexual orientation, nationality and the list goes on.
Anyone that thinks that Racism is only a problem with whites against other skin colors needs to open their eyes
The bottom line on this professor is it Very Much sounds like he was confrontational and belligerent to officers who were trying to protect the community and the professor's house. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 4:40:10 PM | Why is it that white people can't fathom that racism is alive and well in America??
On one hand you could say that his neighbours were looking out for another neighbour but you would think that since he was such a well respected man that his neighbours would know him.
This is classic racism in the fact that he may very well be the only african american living in I would presume a high end gated community near campus and they don't see too many coloured folk around there unless they are divering something. Please note that this said with tongue in cheek but is it closer to the reality that is still very real for many non whites.
Even in my country which is not nearly as bad and much more ethnically diverse this still happens. While working in Toronto a workmate of Jamaican descent use to tell me that he could not get cabs to stop and brushed it off as paranoia.
One evening after closing a downtown bar I had a chance to witness this to be true. We were walking in our direction home keeping an eye out for a passing taxi and I had to urinate so I poppoed into an alley and he called out to say hurry up because one was on its way, when I came out there was no cab and I noticed it aways down the street with its cap light on.
After that night I always made it a point to offer him the first cab that ever came along just so I knew he got one because we went in separate directions.
You may have a "black" president but you still have a long way to go and I guess, so do we. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 4:58:09 PM |
Why is it that white people can't fathom that racism is alive and well in America??
Where in this thread have you seen a white person deny that racism exists? As a matter of fact, several posts have openly acknowledged that racism exists. The whole crux of the thread lies in the last sentence of the OP:
Racism still exists in America. But, why go looking for it in places where it doesn't exist? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 4:59:28 PM | This story continues to develop:
Ogletree (Gates's attorney) said Gates had returned from a trip to China on Thursday with a driver, when he found his front door jammed. He went through the back door into the home – which he leases from Harvard – shut off an alarm and worked with the driver to get the door open. The driver left, and Gates was on the phone with the property's management company when police first arrived.
Ogletree also disputed the claim that Gates, who was wearing slacks and a polo shirt and carrying a cane, was yelling at the officer.
"He has an infection that has impacted his breathing since he came back from China, so he's been in a very delicate physical state," Ogletree said...
Yes, Dr. Gates could have identified himself immediately, however, even after he did indentify himself he was placed under arrest.
Take skin color out of the equation--does it make sense to arrest someone AFTER they've identified themselves as the person whose home was reported being burglarized?
Not to me. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:04:47 PM |
Someone didnt read a post fully. And someone forgot the sentence following....WHY would you do that..... For the post said in the sentence IMMEDIATELY following -----
Is there still some racism in the world and America YEP!!
I wonder why the YEP was capitalized and reason for the punciuation after YEP!!.
Ty Ty for the misquote....Ty so Very Much ....
"Someone" read the post in it's entirety. It isn't a misquote.
That "someone" wasn't questioning whether or not the comment DENIED the existence of racism in the U.S., that's why the SECOND and SEPARATE sentence wasn't included.
"Someone" was questioning the apparent dismissiveness of institutional racism in the U.S.
The situation in the OP and in the corroborative example posted are NOT garden variety, a$$hat racism, That's the kind that we can never get rid of. The situation in the OP and in the corroborative example posted ARE examples of institutional racism which hinges on institutional/public policy and the practice thereof, not individual personality, for which there is NO excuse.
... not even if the complainant was rude and insulting to the officer (the officer has no more "right" to manners or respect than anyone else). Last time I looked, it wasn't criminal to be an a$$hat, that's a matter of individual personality. How the officer behaves when on duty is, however, a matter of institutional/public policy and the practice thereof. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:21:54 PM |
The situation in the OP and in the corroborative example posted ARE examples of institutional racism which hinges on institutional/public policy and the practice thereof, not individual personality, for which there is NO excuse.
So simply because Gates is Black this is racism? I like this in it's pure genius as to how Blacks are manipulating the system. It is racism simply because Gates is Black. He was arrested simply because he is Black and not because it was reported that someone was breaking into a house and he was the one found in the house. And the fact that he was not cooperative and would not provide the needed/requested identification is inconsequential?
... not even if the complainant was rude and insulting to the officer (the officer has no more "right" to manners or respect than anyone else). Last time I looked, it wasn't criminal to be an a$$hat, that's a matter of individual personality. How the officer behaves when on duty is, however, a matter of institutional/public policy and the practice thereof.
Please quit being so obtuse. This is not a matter of manners.
Gate was asked for identification and he refused. Not only did he refuse he immediately played the race card and accused the Officers of racism.
No, the Officers do not have any "right" to manners. However, what they do have is the legal right to ask for identification and be provided with such.
Professor gates caused his own problems by acting like an a$$hat. His behavior caused his problem, not his race.
What viable reason other than being an a$$hat would he have for not providing identification when asked for it by the Police. Rather than being happy that the police in his neighborhood were doing their job he decided to be an a$$hat and be uncooperative.
I can't wait to see the lawsuit that comes out of this.
Yes, Dr. Gates could have identified himself immediately, however, even after he did indentify himself he was placed under arrest.
Take skin color out of the equation--does it make sense to arrest someone AFTER they've identified themselves as the person whose home was reported being burglarized?
Not to me.
Yes he should have an could have identified himself, but he chose not to. He was arrested for disorderly conduct for being uncooperative and yelling that the police were racist. What part of that are you not getting? It appears that once he realized he was in real trouble he then produced identification.
It makes a lot of sense that he was arrested despite being identified as the occupant of the house. His subsequent identification does not negate the behavior that occurred prior to his identification. He was not arrested for being in the premises illegally, he was arrested for his reprehensible behavior. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:33:37 PM | Dr. Gates has made a fool of himself and a mockery of his race. EPIC FAIL!
Those cops weren't racist. If anything, he MIGHT accuse them of being prejudiced against total stupidity. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:34:30 PM | Yes he should have an could have identified himself, but he chose not to. He was arrested for disorderly conduct for being uncooperative and yelling that the police were racist. What part of that are you not getting? It appears that once he realized he was in real trouble he then produced identification.
I'm 'getting' more and more of the story.
According to Gates and his attorney, Dr. Gates DID identify himself and THEN he was arrested.
Which part of 'produced identification and then was arrested' aren't 'you' getting? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:38:53 PM | Sounds to me that he was arrested because the police officer was offended dor being called a racist when we know the profiling that is drilled into officers of the law is very well known. If they were seasoned police officers they would have been able to recognize a person of his age that looked like a man who would own a home like that.
When the well to do call the cops they come running awfully fast and I doubt that this gentleman would appear as a would be burglar.
If he was white this would have been a non event and there would not have been an arrest.
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:45:10 PM |
I'm 'getting' more and more of the story.
According to Gates and his attorney, Dr. Gates DID identify himself and THEN he was arrested.
Which part of 'produced identification and then was arrested' aren't 'you' getting?
What part of the story are you not getting?
He was arrested for Disorderly Conduct. The disorderly behavior was his initial refusal to produce identification and his yelling at the Police that they were racist. It is inconsequential that he subsequently produced identification. Got it now?
According to Gates and his attorney
According to every criminal and their Attorney the defendant is innocent.
Why are you choosing to believe Gates and his Attorney over the Police statement? Why assume racism? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:51:00 PM |
Yes he should have an could have identified himself, but he chose not to. He was arrested for disorderly conduct for being uncooperative and yelling that the police were racist. What part of that are you not getting? It appears that once he realized he was in real trouble he then produced identification.
As you say, he produced his identification (and likely because it was either that or be arrested until his legal right to be in the home was established).
Once the identification was produced, the matter should have ended, but did it...
He was arrested for "disorderly conduct" for yelling at the officer and calling him a racist in his own private home, which had been established as such prior to his arrest?
It's now criminal to be an a$$hat in your own home (or at least some appear to think it should be)?
Since when did that become grounds for arrest? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:52:01 PM |
If they were seasoned police officers they would have been able to recognize a person of his age that looked like a man who would own a home like that.
So the Officers should have just taken gates word that he lived there? I would love to see the repercussions had the officers not asked for identification.
And how does one look like the live there? I have seen plenty of poorly dressed people that live in nice houses. Do you know how he was dressed when he was confronted by the Police?
The bottom line is Gates, without provocation, chose to act like an a$$hat. All he had to do is show his identification and the case is closed. Instead, he decided to make a scene.
Just because a Black person is involved does not make it a case of racism.
Again, I will ask, why are you so quick to assume that this is racism? Why look for racism when it may not be there? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 5:52:15 PM | | Some people are so book smart that they are dumb when it comes to real life. | |
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