| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:02:22 AM | Don`t know if I should have posted this but “here goes”
My son and his best friend where standing at a train platform, when this young man jumped down onto the trackes,everybody thought that he was being silly and taking a short cut to the other side, but no he laid down across the track. Everybody was shouting at him to get up, and my son said 2 men where going to jump down and drag him away, the train was coming, and the other people told the 2 men to stay where they were. The obvious happened in front of a platform full of people…….
I don`t know whether I feel angry that this man put my son and other people through this, or my heart goes out to him because he must have been so desperate…..suicide makes the other people feel so guilty, my son and his friend felt so helpless that this young man ignored everyone’s cry`s of….. stop….
It makes you think…….it does stir up emotions that a lot of us have never experienced before…
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:08:52 AM | When someone wants to commit suicide they don’t see what the rest of the world can see... all they know is that the pain is too much to bare and that the world is better off without them.
I used to think that they were selfish and thought nothing of those they left behind or even of those that would witness or find them… but having worked in the system and spoken to some that have tried and failed to end their life I do view it differently these days. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:08:57 AM | Sadly, this kind of thing happens quite a lot. My sister works for the transport police, and it seems to be a couple of times a week.
Instead of putting other people through the horror and guilt of witnessing it, they should go do it somewhere else. Sorry if that sound cruel, but it really is a selfish act if you bring your death to someone else's door, and possibly endanger their lives too.
EDIT: I do believe that if someone wants to kill themselves, and it's not on a whim (ie.they've thought about it for a long time on many occassions and they can't cope with living) then it's their decision.
Yes, family and friends will suffer because of it.
What the OP is describing is someone taking their own lives in front of many witnesses who do not have to be involved. This person has now laid guilt, horror and even danger at strangers doors. That, to me, is selfish. There are other more private ways or places to do it if they feel they have to do it. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:10:55 AM | I can't post on the subject of suicide objectively, my uncle drowned himself when I was 21, he suffered from depression and although he was never diagnosed he had all the signs of schizophrenia. I've worked since with people who have ticked every box with the same symptoms and not had a diagnosis. I know someone who has just been diagnosed with bipolar at the age of 37.
I believe that too many people slip through the net and get misdiagnosed and not diagnosed at all. However, I also know that my uncle always believed that if someone wanted to end their own life they had the right to do so.
When he died, I think I went through every emotion under the sun and my main one was anger, I was so angry, angry with him for leaving us, for putting us through the pain.
It was years later when I was at a training day and there was a help leaflet written by a group called survivors of bereavement by suicide and every single word on the page related to me. I also carried a lot of guilt for years, guilt that I didn't see it coming, guilt that I couldn't have stopped him.
But, my family picked themselves up and got on with living, the only way I can describe life without Alan is that there is a big black space in our family where he used to be.
He's with me every day, he is always there, even if he's not at the front of my thoughts.
The main thing I know, is that he loved me and I loved him and I will never forget that.
My family have been through this twice in the last 3 generations, my gran also lost her brother to suicide and when I think what she has been through, I have so much admiration for her.
For some people, living is just too painful and that is the bottom line. People may not agree with it, but it's true to me.
I hope your son gets the support he needs to get through this. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:18:03 AM | I have to say i agree with you op, i cant imagine what your son & friend are going through having witnessed such a thing.
I have known two people (one an extended family member) who have hung themselves and even though i appreciate how desperate they must have felt to want to end it all, they did not consider what damage they have done to the people they left behind....or in this case the bystanders who will no doubt carry that with them their entire lives..it is selfish and im sorry but these people have no consideration for their actions! | |
|
sjxx
|
Joined: 4/9/2009
Msg: 6 | |
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:22:51 AM | | My best friends brother hanged himself six years ago. His flat mate came home to find him hanging from the loft hatch by a sheet and he ran to get my best friend who lived opposite. She had to cut her little brother down and hear that last breath leave his body. I do not for a second believe that Jason would have done what he did had he known the grief and heartbreak he left behind. She will always have that as her last memory of him and it is to her credit that she has not fallen apart herself. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:26:28 AM | The reason suicides don't give a thought for those left behind is because, in their low mental state, they feel that no-one cares about them, and that this is the only way out.
They may even feel that they want people to feel guilty in a "now they'll all be sorry" kind of way.
Don't forget to spare a thought for the train driver, either. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:32:10 AM | No people don't have consideration for other people when they take their own lives, however, if someone is suffering from an illness such as psychosis, or paranoia, or schizophrenia, if people actually want to look up some of the symptoms of these illnesses, do people think that an undiagnosed person with paranoid psychosis is truly in their right mind. When they are having hallicinations for example? Or are seriously clincially depressed.
I don't think anyone who seeks to end their life and actually manages it considers the repercussions, because when you get to that state, it won't even be a factor. There are people who kill themselves because they believe they are useless, worthless and that their loved ones would be better off without someone.
Try reaching someone who is in the middle of a schizophrenic episode, it really is not easy. I've tried to get young people sectioned for their own safety, young people who were psychotic, suffering from personality disorders, couldn't do it, I've worked with young people who have attempted suicide and had CPN's and the medical profession were not interested in supporting them. People suffering from mental health problems still do not get enough support and their families certainly don't.
My uncle had years where he was well and when I mean well I mean no one would have ever have known he suffered from any mental health problem. When he was ill, he was ill, he was not a danger to other people at those times, it was his own life that was at risk.
I always remember my mum saying, if he had known the devastation his death would have caused, he wouldn't have done it, he felt that we would be better off without him.
He didn't kill himself with a big fuss, he went away and did it quietly and it must be horrendous for people who have to discover a dead body like that or witness someone taking their own lives and as I said, I hope they get the appropriate support.
None of us knows when we might witness or have to intervene in a situation like that but people who are in certain professional jobs, I'm sure it won't be any less traumatic, but they will be aware that it is something that they may need to deal with at some point. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:33:03 AM | I think that suicide is one of those subjects that will always provoke strong emotions whichever side of the fence you see it from.
People who take teir own life, I can only imagine, are not thinking about anything else apart from an overwhelming sense of their own life being worthless. Having been witness to suicide attempts and actual suicides in the police, in general those who threaten it are merely trying to get people's attention to just how bad they are feeling and that they need help. Usually those who seriously want to end their lives do so without any drama/fuss etc.
My concerns with any suicide is that no-one will ever really know just why they did it. It leaves so many questions for those left behind, who would have wanted just a few more minutes with them to try to help realise that their lives meant so much to so many people. Someone who commits suicide is always someone's child/parent/friend and it saddens me no end to think of people feeling that their life is so meaningless and worthless.
I do think though that the sheer horror of those who have to witness a suicide means that a lot of people would think sucide an act of selfishness..........the poor train drivers who have people jump infront of them. People who find loved one's hanging. Dog walkers seeing someone jump off a cliff. The only way to explain this away is to I think realise that usually in the moments before a suicide, rational thought is the last thing on their mind.
OP, I wish your son had never had to witness such an event and I hope that you can all seek comfort from each other at this difficult time x | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:33:46 AM | I too hope your son gets the support he needs - I knew 2 people quite well who have taken their own lives in the past 3 years. one a young man in his late 20's who had been depressed for some years since the death of his disabled brother (he often blamed himself and felt it should have been him), the other a 40-something husband of a dear friend - he had suffered depression but no-one saw it coming that he would take his own life, even that morning he appeared normal by his pattern of speech and behaviour.
Knowing their nearest and dearest and the counselling and help they have received, it is apparently quite common that 'suicides' plan their death quite carefully, choosing a date and time when their death cannot be prevented as they're not issuing 'a cry for help' but have every intention of taking their life as they can see no future for themselves.
I also heard another friend of mine say 'how selfish' people who take their life are - and to the outsider that may appear the case, but people who suffer deep depression see suicide as the answer and are incapable of seeing anything thing else beyond their action - no cause nor effect.
The deaths of these two people have deeply affected their families and friends and the deaths themselves happened in private - it must have been devastating for the onlookers, and your son, to witness such a scene and I too would wonder why it was necessary for the person in question who choose to make his death public. | |
|
HenXX
|
Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 11 | |
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:39:57 AM | | I totally agree with scints,there is no need at all to do it in front of people,it really angers me! I have known a few people who have done this but went away and done it peacefully without inflicting the trauma on anyone else.One did hang himself in his home knowing full well his teenage daughter would be the one to open the front door and find him.......a truly selfish thing to do. | |
|
OKRob
|
Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 12 | |
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:34:50 AM | Anybody who is thinking of suicide is nothing but a selfish idiot. There are no repercussions for them. But there are a lot of repercussions for the people that know them.
And even for people like your son OP. He didn't know that guy who was trying to kill himself but how many nights uncomfortable sleeping would he have to endure if a train had run that fella over. Rhetorical question. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:56:09 AM | As far as I'm aware the person in the OP did witness a suicide, as for calling people selfish idiots, if it ever happens to you or has happened to you and I sincerely hope it never does, you might not use that phrase.
The person I loved wasn't selfish, nor was he an idiot, he was unwell and did not get the support from the medical profession he needed, otherwise he might still be alive today.
Pauline, I didn't want to say this here in public. But I have to now.
Well I'm sorry you felt you had to share that because of what I said, I would never presume that someone hasn't had an experience with someone who has mental health problems.
The fact is, it really doesn't matter what you or I think, if someone wants to kill themselves they will. Yes my family had to pick up the pieces after 2 suicides, but having witnessed the life that my uncle had when he was going through a really bad spell, he didn't want to live like that and I know he wasn't in his right mind when he killed himself.
As I said earlier, if he had known how much his actions would hurt us, he wouldn't have done it.
I'm sorry for your experience and I apologise if you've shared something you didn't feel you wanted to, I just don't agree that the person I loved was an idiot, he was ill and he had no control over that, he also got no support while he was alive with his schizophrenia.
Take care
| |
|
OKRob
|
Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 14 | |
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:59:03 AM | Pauline, I didn't want to say this here in public. But I have to now.
I have a mentally ill brother who tried to kill himself 6 times. And I still stand by my comments above :)
So yep, it has happened to me and yep, i still think it's selfish. It isn't about the person concerned it's about the people who will be left behind dealing with it. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 5:17:06 AM | | Its a personal feeling. It differs by person. Ive seen it twice and woke up to find someone had done it during the night in the same room. Each time its very traumatic but in a different way, Anger tends to be the most common, the selfishness of the other person ect ect. But if you knew the person then after all the grief has calmed you can sometimes understand. I always find for me personally ive sympathised with it alot more than been angry at it. Again its a personal feeling.. effects each person in different ways but its right, being confronted with both death and a moral contradiction does stir unique feelings up. I suppose its to do with your survival instincts screaming at your logic and both of them comming up blank with an answer. | |
|
Scints
|
Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 16 | |
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 5:22:35 AM | I too have been close to people who have commiteed suicide. One was a cousin, similar age. The other was much closer, my best mates boyfriend. They had split up, but he turned up drunk at her house. She put him to bed and let him sleep it off and went to work. When she returned he was hanging from her bannister with "their song" on repeat on the cd player.
I had to come get her, the police came and dealt with his body, and she stayed with me. I was the one going in and out the house to collect things for her. The house was never her home after that. She was made to feel guilty about his death by his sisters for finishing with him the week before, and obviously he laid the guilt on her door, particlarly leaving the message clearly with "their song".
I really liked the guy, but yep, still selfish. As I said, if it must be done, then that's their decision, but there's no need to spread the guilt and horror. | |
|
HenXX
|
Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 17 | |
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 6:05:49 AM | I dont see the act of suicide in itself as selfish,these people are sadly driven to it and my heart goes out to them.I do believe that we have a right to take our own lives,its just very sad that proper support would have saved many.It is the ones who feel the need to do it in front of others,leaving them to cope with the trauma who get me angry. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 7:22:17 AM | my views have changed so much about this subject and mental illness in the last few years, i used to think along the "these people are selfish" and the people left behind bit but for someone to get so low in their thoughts they wont see anything with any logic.
Maybe the people that do it in front of others see it as a cry for help or maybe they need the comfort of not being left to rot away. Who knows, when your getting to that stage who knows what is going on in someones mind | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 11:03:37 AM |
i still think it's selfish. It isn't about the person concerned it's about the people who will be left behind dealing with it.
Hmmm. Remind me... who's the selfish one there again? | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 11:09:53 AM |
i still think it's selfish. It isn't about the person concerned it's about the people who will be left behind dealing with it.
Hmmm. Remind me... who's the selfish one there again?
the parent leaving a child behind maybe? suicide is a dreadful thing, it is inherently selfish in that the person is choosing to end their life rather than deal with their problems. Call me selfish if you think I am for having that attitude but as a 6 yr old I had to deal with the tragic death of my own mother and the suicide of my father on the same day. That has stayed with me my whole life and now as a mother to two wonderful kids I just cannot imagine how he could have done that to me and my baby sister? I know he had major depression but you know what? I don't care! He was a father and he had a responsibility to look after the children he bought into this world and left us orphans through one selfish act. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 11:19:40 AM | You know what, I think everyone's experience is different. I don't hate my uncle for doing what he did but it is an awful experience. There are no easy answers. I had people who I knew since I was 5 years old who have never spoken to me since the day my uncle died.
For me it has never been about forgiveness but you never forget, you just have to plod on and for anyone who has been through this experience, you have my best wishes, because I have been there and I know how hard it is.
I've been suffering from depression lately but I've never felt like killing myself, but I don't hate my uncle for what he did, he just couldn't go on. For people who are mentally unwell it's not as easy as black and white and I just think myself lucky I've never been in that much pain.
For everyone on here who has been affected, I wish you well.
P | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 12:47:53 PM | For a person who hasn't experienced dibilitating depression or a severe mental illness, its hard to begin to comprehend how another human being can take their own life especially in front of other people. I have learnt that people will often have protective factor/s...this can be your childen, husband, wife etc. Often people will often say things like "my mum would not cope if I did myself in, I couldnt do that to her" and so you go away with the knowledge that though very depressed/ill, they are still reachable.
But that very vulnerable state of mind can just tip, often inexplicably and that persons consideration for others just disappears, and then the last thing on the suicidal persons mind is how other people feel even their own beloved children.
I find it hard to believe that people stand on the edge of a station platform thinking... yeah this lot watching will be sorry when i jump..... Speaking to one young man who had a lucky escape though with horrific injuries, I learnt that he jumped off the platform simply because it was accessible, further down the track was off limits and fenced up. He had no thought as to who was watching they didnt even enter his pysche. Simple as.
I dont see these people as selfish. I just see people who are tormented. Every day is a struggle to stay alive and live through whatever their torment is, despair and depression, voices, lonliness, addiction or a combination of everything.
I do realise it is easy for me to sit here spouting all this because Im not the one living with someone who is mentally ill. It is ALL consuming. I understand were Rob is coming from especially when the person seem to be sabotaging all attempts to help him/her. I have so much admiration for family carers. Its a hard job and a thankless one. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 12:59:02 PM |
Hmmm. Remind me... who's the selfish one there again?
The person who commits suicide - it's written clearly in the post you quoted.
He has a point, too. The victim isn't left with a lifetime of anguish that his action bestowed upon those who cared for him. His problems are all over - their torment is only just beginning.
HTH | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 1:03:34 PM | This is a very revealing and quite harrowing study of suicide and its repercussions when you read between the lines:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/8/26
including the chilling fact
The rate of suicide in families of suicide victims is twice as high as in families of comparison subjects, and a family history of suicide is a significant risk factor independent of severe mental disorder
May I respectfully suggest that maybe a person who wants to leave life does so becasue they feel that they are worthless, and that those they leave behind will be better off without them - making it a very unselfish act in their eyes. | |
|
| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 1:16:19 PM |
May I respectfully suggest that maybe a person who wants to leave life does so becasue they feel that they are worthless, and that those they leave behind will be better off without them - making it a very unselfish act in their eyes.
I'd have more respect for the victim if they troubled themselves to ask any interested parties how they would feel if they learned of their (impending) suicide.
If those people responded with comments like "well, given that you are worthless, and I really think you should go ahead with it", then I would agree with your opinion.
Until I have evidence that potential victims trouble themselves in that way, and receive such replies, then I will consider it to be a 'selfish' act. | |
|
Home
login 
