| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/2/2009 7:56:12 PM | Hi guys, there's something I've been wondering about. There are various ways in which you can meet someone of the opposite sex: school, college, through friends or work, hobbies, cafes, shopping, and numerous more I haven't mentioned. But when you get older, the school and college options disappear, many friends have turned into couples and stay at home, and options are reduced. We still spend most of our time at work so this would seem to be the most likely place to meet someone new, but some employers have rules against relationships at work and sexual harassment laws have been passed. When I started out in the workforce, strict laws didn't exist, so men would approach women at work - yes, and abuse this freedom too. Has the culture really changed now? Has fear of the law really prevented you from approaching a woman you liked at work, assuming your employer had no rules? I'm wondering if there is a woman you'd really like to have taken it further with but didn't dare. Would a man really ignore the possibility of a fantastic relationship because of work?
Please don't make comments about '******* where you work' and 'dipping pens in company ink'. I find these phrases quite offensive when we are talking about possibly meeting the love of your life. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/2/2009 8:05:00 PM | | This really is a silly hypothetical given that you couldn't possibly KNOW beforehand if the girl you are considering is or is not the "love of your life". Moreover, trying to date someone you work with IS a horrible idea given the ramifications if it doesn't work out. If that insults your girlish notion of romance, sorry, but that's reality. | |
|
| |
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/2/2009 8:07:35 PM |
Would a man really ignore the possibility of a fantastic relationship because of work?
Yes. Things went to far the other way and if you value the job all women there are off limits. All it takes is a simple flirt taken wrong by just one and your unemployed. Its not worth the risk. | |
|
| |
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/2/2009 9:44:46 PM | | Compared to back in the day, there is less butt-slapping in the office. And people are much quieter, they don't hang out by the water-cooler any more.....but maybe that's because of IM and Twitter...???? | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/2/2009 10:04:01 PM | If the women at work were my only options for dating, I'd never date again. Ugh no.
Funny thing though about some women, they tend to abuse the law because they can. When a woman at our work got fired for not doing her job, she lied and said I had been coming onto her and harassing her. She thought I had said something to get her fired, even though I didn't. Boss could just tell she wasn't doing the job. Thankfully no one believed her lies.
And stories like this happen thousands of times every day. Women abuse the law, because there isn't the proper penalty for people who make false claims and often ruin other peoples lives.
So no, I avoid women at work. I'll keep my job, thanks. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/2/2009 10:04:54 PM | OP
I don't believe that it's the sexual harassment laws, but rather, the fact that, if you date a woman at work, and it does not pan out, it makes for a mighty uncomfortable situation later.
Sexual harassment laws, "quid pro quo" -- that's the most dangerous one. It means, in essence, "do this for me" and I'll reward you with an employment related promotion, raise in pay, letter of commendation, etc.
sexual harrassment -- "hostile environment" -- creating a situation where, due to the sex/race/ethnicity of the person, said person is subjected to conditions that impinge on their ability to work in peace and harmony because of the discriminatory actions of one or more individuals.
The scenario that you write about is somewhat removed from the reach of sexual harassment laws. But, they're not outside of the reach of some company policies, which discourage romantic relationships among employees simply due to the fact that it often leads to a loss of productivity.
The blame must not be placed squarely on men, as some women are quick to jump to the conclusion that, if they are jilted, then it's time to call HR to proclaim that they are being subjected to a "hostile environment" by having to face "J. Q" every day, and, it being heavy on the heart, this creates a "hostile environment." OK, just to be fair, many times men ARE responsible for creating hostile environments, but it saddens me to see that laws that were created to treat serious abuses in the workplace are sometimes relegated to serve the role of romantic intervention of the most superficial kind. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 12:37:26 AM |
Has fear of the law really prevented you from approaching a woman you liked at work, assuming your employer had no rules?
I'll start by saying yes, while I walk on these eggshells..
I don't think I'd be alone in thinking that there's gotta' be a few girls out there that arn't above using this law in a criminal way. I also don't think I'm being too paranoid, but paranoid people are probably more likely to say that. lol
Rule of thumb: I commonly suspect that any girl I talk to could wig out at any moment and try to slap the cuffs on me under a false charge of sexual harassment.
I also play the field a lot more carefully, and more sparingly than most. I hardly ever approach women... they are sensitive creatures with volitile emotions.. truly a force to be reckoned with. Maybe I just plain don't trust people, but I get the feeling that some snobby chick might sell me up the river to get some elbow room. Yeah, I really do think like that.
I'm not sure of the laws, but I feel like there's a lot of room for speculation and interpretation... Women are bothered by so many men regularly, wouldn't it just feel good to send a few of em' away as sex offenders for being lame? lol, no, not really... but what if you actually considered it... I mean really actually considered it. Particularly bad day type scenario... Maybe, you've just said something about it... maybe by accident or a joke... then a more concerned boss helps to take it out of proportion and actually persue it... Oopsy, that guy Lary in accounting just got popped for attempted harrassment!
I don't think all women are evil, (though I do feel a small portion are capable.) I do however know that everyone feels good when they help to protect a woman, which makes for an easy scenario to be over-enthusastic. Ever known someone who got beat up for talking to a girl at a bar? Well... when you get beat up with the law, you stay beat up. I will avoid that. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 12:37:36 AM |
Would a man really ignore the possibility of a fantastic relationship because of work?
I would never approach a woman in the workplace. P*ssy isn't worth a career.
Please don't make comments about '******* where you work' and 'dipping pens in company ink'. I find these phrases quite offensive when we are talking about possibly meeting the love of your life.
What will you do if we don't comply? Sue POF for sexual harrassment?
Again, it's another example of the law of unintended consequences. Congratulations girl, you got it. Now enjoy it. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 1:36:21 AM | Very good example of another woman, living in "fairy la la land" ....
Love of your life ? Yes because they come with a life time guarantee....rigghhhhtt ?
You get involved and find out she's not your "love of your life", then what ?
Let me give you a little dose of "REALITY". No "LOVE" is worth losing my job. Or even having unnecessary stress in work place.
I don't even get involved with people in my gym. Something goes wrong, I'll have to change gyms etc...not worth it.
/End | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 1:40:57 AM |
Would a man really ignore the possibility of a fantastic relationship because of work?
Yes, if the job is good enough. By entering a relationship at work a person risks severely harming their income and their reputation needlessly. It isn't always going to be a huge risk, but if I had a great job instead of the crappy job I currently have I definitely wouldn't risk f***ing myself over by dating a co-worker. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 1:51:18 AM |
trying to date someone you work with IS a horrible idea given the ramifications if it doesn't work out. If that insults your girlish notion of romance, sorry, but that's reality.
I agree. it's always a terrible idea to date co-workers. especially in a very professional work environment. the rules and laws are still overlooked by many people who are willing to take that risk. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 2:24:01 AM |
Has the culture really changed now?
I hope so. Throughout my career, I've witnessed some pretty vulgar sexual harassment.
Has fear of the law really prevented you from approaching a woman you liked at work, assuming your employer had no rules?
It is not illegal to approach women you work with for a date, so no. The rules are pretty fair IMHO, although the enforcement varies company by company.
Would a man really ignore the possibility of a fantastic relationship because of work?
I doubt it unless it is an important job and a strict policy (such as a manager dating a subordinate). | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 7:43:13 AM | OP, I think what's changed is not so much due to new laws but due to changes in the division of labor between men and women. Years ago, men and women tended not to work so closely togethet as they do now: women tended to work in the steno pool while men tended to dominate the executive suite, the assembly line, the tool crib, the warehouse and the stock lot. There was much less interaction during actual working hours, so if a guy in the shop dated a woman from the steno pool and it didn't work out, they wouldn't see each other around all that much. The "hostile work environment" cases were mostly situations where women were starting to work in areas that previously had been all male. The "quid pro quo" stuff has been going on since time immemorial, and most employers have always taken a dim view of it, at least in theory.
The anti-harassment laws have just paralelled the changes in the work force. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 7:58:13 AM | When I'm on the management side of things - I never ask co-workers or employees out. I also refrain from telling jokes of a colorful nature, making sexist remarks, or even commenting on how good a female employee looks on a given day! This is a direct result of anti harrassment law. We do live in such a litigious society these days!
I've already seen what effects the litigation can have. It's a no win for the employer in my state. Normal outcome is they settle out of court to avoid the legal expenditure necessary to successfully defend their position. And usually it isn't just the company being sued! The individual involved can be taken to court also.
When I'm in a labor postion. The anti-harrasment laws just don't affect the decision to ask out a co-worker. What does affect it is the fact that if you get involved with a co-worker and it falls apart - work can become a very unpleasant place to have to be at.
Cheers | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 5:00:19 PM | Thanks for your honest replies. I can see that some of you completely separate your love life from work, almost in an aggressive way. Hence the language used, I suspect.
It seems most are wary of relationships with colleagues and subordinates. This seems sensible from the point of view of it possibly going wrong. Working with an ex could be very uncomfortable.
I have a different experience of romantic relationships at work. I've never had one myself but lots of people in my workplace are either married or in romantic relationships with others. It is a big workplace. I have seen many happy couples and the occasional split. People are generally professional though and don't let it impact on colleagues. On the one occasion I can think of where the pain was too great for one colleague after a partner left, other colleagues were supportive and helped the two to avoid each other. No-one ever considered sacking either of them for their painful situation. Isn't that sort of response a bit callous when both are doing their jobs OK?
I think rules against romance at work are probably just fashion - considered by HR to be the done thing - not based on the reality of relationships. But, having said that, I do work with intelligent people who usually know how to behave. | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 7:23:28 PM | | This inhibited me a few years ago, that and the ring on my finger! I recently became attracted to a woman at work and asked her out. She said she was unsure and I decided to follow up with rescheduling. I came in the next day and the boss called me in the office. She said I was intimidating her! I didn't lose my job, but I definitely stopped talking to her "that way". Anyone who knows me, knows I only LOOK intimidating, I'm definitely not! I don't need that hassle. If you're not interested, tell us, don't go crying to HR! | |
|
| What effect have sexual harassment laws had on behaviour?
Posted: 8/3/2009 7:35:49 PM | If you've ever been truly sexually harassed at work, you'll know that the laws are there for a reason, and I for one appreciate that we now have them. If a man likes me and he wants to get to know me, he can make an effort outside of the work environment.
Beth | |
|
Home
login 
