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Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?      Home login  
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 *PookieDoesPerth*
Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 1
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ? Page 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Quadriplegic man pleads to end his life

Courtesy of Channel Nine/msn

A nursing care group has asked a court if it can legally feed a quadriplegic man who has asked it to stop.
In a case that right-to-die advocate Philip Nitschke says is "very important" to the campaign for legally assisted suicides, Perth man Christian Rossiter has pleaded to end his life.
The 49-year-old patient at the Brightwater nursing home in Perth's northern suburbs says he's in "a living hell" because of total paralysis and needs 24-hour care.
Speaking through a tracheotomy tube, Mr Rossiter told reporters on Thursday that he hopes an application to the West Australian Supreme Court will result in him being allowed to die.
He has asked the nursing home to cease feeding and hydrating him through a tube to his stomach, known as a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) tube.
The Brightwater Care Group said on Thursday it is asking the court whether it is lawfully feeding Mr Rossiter, in view of his requests to stop.
"(The requests) place Brightwater in a position of conflict between its duty of care and its obligation to respect Mr Rossiter's request, and raises complex issues at law," a statement from lawyers acting for the group said.
Mr Rossiter first publicly declared his wish to die in June, and has since had discussions with Dr Nitschke and Perth lawyer John Hammond about possible options for ending his life.
These may include refusal of food, nutrition and liquids or travelling to Switzerland to undergo legally administered lethal injections.
Mr Rossiter said Australia should adopt Switzerland's euthanasia laws and allow people freedom of choice in their right to live or die.
"I'm hoping the courts won't force them (nursing home staff) to sustain me," Mr Rossiter said.
"This is living hell.
"I used to be a cyclist, I used to be a keen walker.
"I bushwalked around the world ... I've rock climbed in Yosemite Valley in California up very steep cliffs.
"I've got a degree in economics and now I can't even read a newspaper, I can't turn the pages.
"I want to have the food withdrawn."
Mr Hammond, who was by his client's side, said Mr Rossiter's wishes should be respected.
"He wants to die now, not tomorrow, not next week, but he wants to die now and he wants to die without pain," Mr Hammond said.
"I think if we are to be civilised in the way we deal with people like Mr Rossiter then his wish should be granted."
Dr Nitschke congratulated the Brightwater group "for going down the path of seeking legal advice on this".
"In the meantime, of course, we've been involved in making sure Chris has got good legal representation, too, so that his rights can be reflected," he told Fairfax Radio Network.
But he warned that Mr Rossiter was choosing a difficult path if he decided to fast himself to death.
"I certainly made it clear to Chris that while it has a certain appeal - that one can simply stop eating and drinking - the idea that it's an easy road is far from the truth," he said.
Brightwater's lawyers said the care group was taking a neutral stance on Mr Rossiter's wishes.
"Brightwater is not seeking to take a position or making an application to the court that is either in opposition to or endorses Mr Rossiter's request," it said.
Brightwater chief executive Dr Penny Flett said it was a complex legal issue and court advice was being sought in order for Mr Rossiter to be provided "with the best possible care".


This is a case that is receiving saturation coverage here in WA....a man COMPLETELY paralysed and livng a hell that we can only imagine......has asked that he be allowed to die.....this is a man who has undergone psychiatric evaluation to determine his compency and has passed every test. Mr Rossiter is fully aware of the consequences should his PEG line be removed.

So my question to my fellow posters is this.....should a person who is COHERENT, SANE AND OF SOUND MIND AND IS PROVEN TO BE SO, be allowed to chose to die, medically assisted, if for whatever reason, in THEIR EYES, they believe their life is no longer worth living ? Would you want that rite, if you too were "living" Mr Rossiters life ?
 lok
Joined: 7/6/2006
Msg: 2
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 4:29:02 AM
there are pro's and cons to your question..

I believe if the person is ill , and there is no medical way they can be made better , like in this case , then it should be allowed.

If the person has had a bad run in life , or is ill and there is a cure , ( maybe they cannot afford it ) , then it shouldnt be allowed.. the quality of a persons life is up to them , and them alone , if they are physically able to make changes to improve their life/living situation , they should take that option.

If this guy is as depicted in the story , then i believe he should be allowed his request

Lok's opinion out
 Prakticle
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 3
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 4:58:34 AM
Could always petition the court to be removed from hospital care, but how would he get on the plane to a country where you can go at your own pace?????????
 Somnia
Joined: 3/24/2007
Msg: 4
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Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 5:43:38 AM
So, he is coherent and sane of mind and yet wants to throw that away? There are many in this world born without coherence and sanity, probably wandering throughout their whole life wondering why people avoid them, why people would stare at them. He states he used to be able to do this, and climb that. It seems to me to be a state of depression.

His opinions are justified to himself, of course, if I were in his shoes, I would probably want it to end fast as well. It would be a highly emotive situation. That is why we have laws, and it would be these laws that people can objectively decide that life is worth protecting. It would be very hard to draw a line in the sand and put in law who is able to die and who isn't. Remember, different people have different standards. So what is horrible for one is livable for another. Should we find examples of paralysed peopled who has lived through the entirety of their natural life? What about kids born with terminal diseases? What about children born without a spine, skulls and all the other stories I have not the heart to open myself to?

My arguments is a bit mishmashed, but I'm in a bit of a hurry.


At the end, this would only be my own opinion. I could never pretend to fathom what it would be like to lose my mobility and quality of life.
 Naamah
Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 5
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 6:09:34 AM
I think each of us should have the right to choose. And not have to go by starvation, which is a cruel death. I hate imagining all these able bodied people sitting there, with their health and abilities and normal lives stretching ahead of them, and telling him it's not so bad...as if they'd know.

If they are worried he's not making a sound long-term decision perhaps they could wait 13 months and see if he still wants to. (I am told that insurance companies have a 13 month clause in life insurance policies...that they won't pay out if the policy holder suicides within 13 months of taking up the policy to avoid people getting insurance then immediately topping themselves....because obviously insurance companies want to mitigate their own losses and their research shows that most people who think they want to kill themselves, don't actually want to anymore 13 months later. So you could say those who still do were not just having a temporary reaction to a hardship, but truly want out.)
 mmmnicky
Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 6
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Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 1:59:15 PM
if we stood next to someone as they attempted suicide do we just stand by and watch and let it happen because.. well it is their choice or do we intervene... in case of jumpers, guns in the mouth, overdoses we always where we can.. intervene..

this is no different.. it is our moral obligation to interfer...

but it is also his choice to die.. it is a hard one.. so i say it would be reasonable for a group of psychologists, his legal team and a court to make the decision for him/us.

i mean we are also a society who put ppl to death.. so the moral lines are blurry.
 nevaagin
Joined: 4/8/2009
Msg: 7
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 3:38:21 PM
Poster 4 ... you are sane of mind if you want to , really have had it and are in pain and there's no way out , if you then want to end it .. the pain , the agony , the morphine and you are going to die anyway . This is a sane decision and it's your right to make it .
 BluePatch
Joined: 3/4/2006
Msg: 8
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 5:23:20 PM
Firstly, not all people with tetraplegia [quadraplegia] require a PEG to feed; also many can read using a stand and a stick to turn pages. Hence this man's situation appears to be the most severe, or perhaps as often happens a PEG is require initially. However he will still require someone to 'feed' him by placing food into his mouth.

Not enough information to know if his condition is new, or if he has been quadreplic for some time. I disagree with previous poster in diagnosing whether he has depression, we can not make such a decision without much more information, especially whithout a lot of person contact/interaction. Most people placed in dis-enabling situations feel some degree of depression initially, be it a simple fracture or more. So is it acute depression or chronic depression.

Does depression alone define a person's 'sanity'?

Is the use of a PEG not an artificial form of life preserving intervetion ?

Is he not being forceable sustained against his will?

Starvation is not an quick easy end. Lots of analgesia/narcotics with perhaps increasing strenghtens/amounts would be required to be effective to allow him to be pain free [or as close as possible]; and that in itself can then become a 'fine line' between maintaining pain-free life, and 'inducing' a life ending response. Morphine has side effects of the heart etc.

Not my decision [thankfully]. I do not know for sure how I would be I in his situation unless I was placed there. The only thing I can be sure of is that if placed in a situation resulting in any form of dis=ability, I would feel depressed even if only in the initial stages of recovery.
 soulmate08
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 9
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Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 6:19:51 PM
heres an excerpt from an article..on the same day..

but a "capable adult" was entitled to refuse medical treatment on religious, social or moral grounds "or indeed upon no apparent rational grounds ... and is entitled to respect ... regardless".



full story/article
http://www.smh.com.au/national/dying-mr-a-wins-right-to-refuse-treatment-20090806-eapp.html

Dying Mr A wins right to refuse treatmentBellinda Kontominas
August 6, 2009 - 11:39AM
A court has granted a dying man the right to refuse medical treatment due to his religious beliefs.

The man, who is aged in his 70s but cannot be named for legal reasons, did not wish to undergo dialysis treatment after he was admitted on July 1 to a hospital run by the Hunter New England Area Health Service. He was suffering from septic shock and respiratory failure.

Known as "Mr A", the man later suffered from renal failure and was kept alive by mechanical ventilation and kidney dialysis until the hospital discovered a document indicating he would refuse dialysis due to his beliefs as a member of the Jehovah's Witness religion.

The area health service took the case to the Supreme Court to ensure the man's refusal of medical treatment was legal.

In the Supreme Court today, Justice Robert McDougall said it was unclear whether the refusal of dialysis was part of the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness faith but a "capable adult" was entitled to refuse medical treatment on religious, social or moral grounds "or indeed upon no apparent rational grounds ... and is entitled to respect ... regardless".

"That is so, even if, as it appears in the case, the likely consequence of giving effect to Mr A's wishes ... is that he will die," the judge said.

The document Mr A signed also stated he would refuse any blood transfusions or storage of his own blood for a later transfusion.


So it would seem, you can have the right to deny treatment.... for yourself..
As for assisted killing?.... thats abit different....in your asking someone else to essentially end your life.....
I don't think I could do it.. because even making the decision to take my dogs life,
end it... (i was praying he would have a heart attack or die in his sleep.. because I loved him.. and didnt want to take his life.. being his mum and best mate)..
and even though the vet said it was time.. It's the soul/mind/heart effect.. of taking his life.. making that decision, that affects me..
regardless of at the end of the day.. i can make a good argument for the decision..
my soul still got effected.. logic is different..to soul..

The concept.. in war... guys who see they're best mate, with guts hanging out.. etc.. might end their mates life?... because they ascertain, hes not going to pull through and just suffer.. and die alone.. cause they have to move on?....
hyperthetical...
Id say every case /situation would be different...(and the consequence/reaction.. on the person who assisted).
 soulmate08
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 10
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Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 6:23:10 PM
heres an excerpt from an article..on the same day..




but a "capable adult" was entitled to refuse medical treatment on religious, social or moral grounds "or indeed upon no apparent rational grounds ... and is entitled to respect ... regardless".



full story/article
http://www.smh.com.au/national/dying-mr-a-wins-right-to-refuse-treatment-20090806-eapp.html



Dying Mr A wins right to refuse treatmentBellinda Kontominas
August 6, 2009 - 11:39AM
A court has granted a dying man the right to refuse medical treatment due to his religious beliefs.

The man, who is aged in his 70s but cannot be named for legal reasons, did not wish to undergo dialysis treatment after he was admitted on July 1 to a hospital run by the Hunter New England Area Health Service. He was suffering from septic shock and respiratory failure.

Known as "Mr A", the man later suffered from renal failure and was kept alive by mechanical ventilation and kidney dialysis until the hospital discovered a document indicating he would refuse dialysis due to his beliefs as a member of the Jehovah's Witness religion.

The area health service took the case to the Supreme Court to ensure the man's refusal of medical treatment was legal.

In the Supreme Court today, Justice Robert McDougall said it was unclear whether the refusal of dialysis was part of the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness faith but a "capable adult" was entitled to refuse medical treatment on religious, social or moral grounds "or indeed upon no apparent rational grounds ... and is entitled to respect ... regardless".

"That is so, even if, as it appears in the case, the likely consequence of giving effect to Mr A's wishes ... is that he will die," the judge said.

The document Mr A signed also stated he would refuse any blood transfusions or storage of his own blood for a later transfusion.


So it would seem, you can have the right to deny treatment.... for yourself..
As for assisted killing?.... thats abit different....in your asking someone else to essentially end your life.....
I don't think I could do it.. because even making the decision to take my dogs life,
end it... (i was praying he would have a heart attack or die in his sleep.. because I loved him.. and didnt want to take his life.. being his mum and best mate)..
and even though the vet said it was time.. It's the soul/mind/heart effect.. of taking his life.. making that decision, that affects me..
regardless of at the end of the day.. i can make a good argument for the decision..
my soul still got affected.. logic is different..to soul..

The concept.. in war... guys who see their best mate, with guts hanging out.. etc.. might end their mates life?... because they ascertain, hes not going to pull through and just suffer.. and die alone.. cause they have to move on?....
and Im pretty sure..my dad a vietnam veteran, has to deal with the logic mind/soul/heart decisions he made in vietnam everyday.. whether in sleep or awake....
hyperthetical...(in all cases are different)
Id say every case /situation would be different...(and the consequence/reaction.. on the person who assisted).

peace
 dimeadozen
Joined: 2/6/2009
Msg: 11
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 1:54:54 AM
I think the guy in the OP still has a valuable life. The pain would be making the whole scenario much harder to put up with but he still has his knowledge and interest in economics and the ability to communicate, albeit reduced. Maybe he could actually find a useful niche because his experience could be helpful to someone else.

My mum died of motor neurone disease which, by the final stages, meant that she was quadriplegic and in a similar position to the guy in the OP. Except that she wasn't in any pain. It happened very gradually over a period of 5 years and it is a terminal illness. Mum had always been a tremendously capable person, a bit scathing of anyone who was dependent, but having to have people help her made her realise that some people LIKE to help and that sometimes you need it. She was a much nicer person in the end. I would have said that the opportunity for personal growth is one positive about living on through difficult times.

There are lots of people living in these circumstances unfortunately. Are none of these individuals valuable?

I do think we should have the right to choose, although I'm not sure that dying would ever be the best choice and it would be tremendously difficult to decide the conditions under which people are allowed that choice.

In the past I have made the decision to put loved pets out of their misery and it seems inequitable that we can't do that for ourselves. Maybe it comes back to our belief system as to whether we think life has intrinsic value, how we deal with suffering and whether we see any higher purpose.
 journey2407
Joined: 7/12/2008
Msg: 12
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 3:09:10 AM

Are none of these individuals valuable?


I don't think that is for anyone else to decide but the man in question.


Every individual is valuable. Beyond measure. Which is why his choice should be the only thing that matters. If he doesn't want someone to artificially force food into his body, who has the right to do it? Ok, so he might be depressed (or not), but it seems he is stable and educated and coherent, just from the description of the circumstances.

It is his choice, and his choice only. I believe in a right to life, but that is based on a right to an individual's choice. No-one should be able to take that away.
 dimeadozen
Joined: 2/6/2009
Msg: 13
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 3:33:35 AM

I don't think that is for anyone else to decide but the man in question. Really, who has the right to tell us whether or not we have quality of life....its a personal decision.
Quality of life is not the same thing as whether its valuable. 'Quality' is quite subjective. Some people would be thankful to have the ability to communicate and others see the limitations they have to deal with.


To me, if he wants to die....let him
Would you apply that equally to anyone that was so sick of life that they want to end it? The reality is that when your child says they're sick of living and you can see that they're finding it all exquisitely painful, you wont be thinking its their right to die.
 Noxious_Hysteria
Joined: 8/25/2008
Msg: 14
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 3:37:00 AM
The guy has his faculties together and that is no life what so ever and is bound to have other health complications down the track. If he wants to go, after he has said what he needs to say to his loved ones and is happy to leave this life, he needs to go his own way.

I can only assume that old mate is never going to walk again or make any sort of recovery what so ever and he will just langish in this state.......sure he might have his mental capacity in a pile but who wants to communicate by blinking or tapping on an oversized keyboard with a stick in your mouth....

 Beachippy
Joined: 3/21/2006
Msg: 15
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Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 4:17:41 AM
in some cultures people "go for a walk".... when they are past care.. and know they are burden for their tribe.... sit down under tree and wait to die....
their decision is made for the benefit of the tribe, not the individual.....
the tribe see it for the "noble" gesture it is.... and treat it with the respect due....

the man in the OP has right to choose.... he seems to have made his thoughts clear and is under no pressure....
 dimeadozen
Joined: 2/6/2009
Msg: 16
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 4:20:52 AM

The two are like chalk and cheese to me.
We all live with limitations, some more obvious than others eg physical illness, loss of sight or a limb, low EQ or IQ, etc. Then there's mental illness where we aren't limited at all in a physical sense, except that we cant reach our potential because of our inability to see the possibilities or deal with things or whatever. For the person that's severely depressed there is no apparent positive future, apart from the hideous present going on forever, so the situation is exactly the same as the guy in the OP from their perspective.

Which brings me back to the point of whether the guy in the OP should have the right to die. I dont think he's really qualified to say that his life is without value any more but, yes.
 journey2407
Joined: 7/12/2008
Msg: 17
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 4:28:04 AM

Which brings me back to the point of whether the guy in the OP should have the right to die.

maybe he doesn't have a "right" to die (or maybe he does, that's not really the problem), but surely he has a right to not have protein shakes injected into his stomach by medical staff at a nursing home. If he is severely depressed, maybe it's the medical intervention that is causing some of it. Take all medical intervention away, leave him for a while, then ask him....
 simonthenice
Joined: 7/9/2009
Msg: 18
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 5:56:03 AM
Yes this issue does need to be dealt with in thuis day and age. We dont seem to have a problem putting down an animal if we think its better to do so, but a human being thats a different story. it does appear that if you have a terminal illness you would be treated better if you were a dog.
 Naamah
Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 19
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 6:22:33 AM

The reality is that when your child says they're sick of living and you can see that they're finding it all exquisitely painful, you wont be thinking its their right to die.

If you can see a way ahead for them through their current emotional turmoil, a solution, a light at the end of the tunnel, and they can't...of course you would do all you could to preserve their life. But something like this is physical, irreversible, physical incapacity and mental torture. Would you want your child to have an out, if they wanted one, if their only other option was decades ahead of what this man is enduring, a lifetime, of bed-ridden torture and anguish that for them felt like a living death?


I would have said that the opportunity for personal growth is one positive about living on through difficult times.

That doesn't mean we need to seek it out though, and relish our opportunities to embrace our pain and suffering for the reward of personal growth. I perceive that personal growth out of suffering is more like a consolation thing rather than a goal or something to aspire to. Anyway, who is to say that for this particular guy, reaching a state of peace and feeling ready to die is not an outcome of personal growth?


In the past I have made the decision to put loved pets out of their misery and it seems inequitable that we can't do that for ourselves. Maybe it comes back to our belief system as to whether we think life has intrinsic value, how we deal with suffering and whether we see any higher purpose.

My pets are my kids, and if animals in my care are happy to live with incapacity then I am happy to support them for as long as they want. Blind, deaf, crippled...if they wish to go on, I just do my best for them to keep them pain-free, safe and happy. And because I do appreciate the intrinsic value of life I don't euthanase animals pre-emptively or for my convenience. Probably because after seeing how much my husband wanted to live despite how incapacitated he got, well, I am reluctant to assume too much about what level of physical difficulty might make a sentient being want to die...it takes a lot, I think...probably why I respect the decision if and when it is made (talking about as a result of physical incapacity as per the OP not the other stuff being brought up now). So when I see in an animal's eyes that they've had enough, I give them their out.

As Soulmate said, it's hard on our spirit to enact it even when they do ask....but sometimes we might have to damage our own soul just to do a little less damage to someone else's.


'Quality' is quite subjective. Some people would be thankful to have the ability to communicate and others see the limitations they have to deal with.

And neither would be wrong, given that they are deciding for themselves. I don't think it's fair to expect one person to accept irreversible immobility merely because someone else somewhere coped with it. You could break a person's spirit to make them live like that when they don't have the right mindset... and a broken spirit is worse than a broken body.
 soulmate08
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 20
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Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 7:00:59 AM

Two weeks ago I took an overdose of drugs.. my anti depressants and some mersyndol.. My daughter was the one that called the ambulance after I told her what I did.. I wanted to end my life... I suffer from ongoing depression and panic attacks..

Firstly, this post ssadnens me on many levels...
I hope being in nsw.. you have a mental health worker?... access?.....IT can and does help, to talk out loud to a face to face.. whats going on in your thoughts/feelings...
2ndly.. on saying that.. Id like to offer a few thoughts, you may share with your counsellor....
I have a theory, that........ just as we can't see the survival system... (or soul)... that depression is an invisable disease (it has been described as that in the past) the silent killer...... of those invisable parts, we know exist.... (ok some don't believe a soul/spirit)...and this disease can be truly dibillitating and can be fatal..

So.. my theory extends to what makes a soul/spirit.. healthy?.. possibly.. hope.. faith (this is not a religious term.. it simply means anything you believe in.. but within a soul level, rather than mind level= belief).. ...and love...
(with depression, sometimes it can be all consuming .. and make us numb and within ourselves)... so sometimes we can't see/feel the love, that is there..
When we can feel love... the world looks/feels differently.
so eg....having hope for a future(seeing it).. faith, that things pass.. ie how we perceive situations...and that things can get better (and the faith part, might be,..and this is how it can get better..ie a practical, steps towards that)... and love... without love.... I find life .....it has little meaning..( love can be a nice thought)
But this is my own personal summary of my experiences...
So what is love?... it starts within us for us.. and it can spread to.. others.. thoughts... It can also spread to romantic love or children or pets etc..
love is many things... and if we are totally.. alone.. I mean not 1 person in this world gives a shit about us.. we can still experience love... It isn't ... from an outside source... it's within...
gratitude.. for anything... at all... helps build new thoughts...helps build new brain waves... helps even if for'........1 moment/thought only... we didn't think something negative...


Now do you think I have the right to take those pills and end my life.. and leave behind my kids to suffer the consequences of my actions because I can't control my depression.. OR... Do I get help.. professional... and try and sort my stuff out and control the depression and go on and lead a relatively normal life???


When I was a kid.... my mum was consistently suicidal... once she kept saying it.. over and over... it was scary.. I was like 10? 11?.. I didn't know what to do.. to "SAVE HER"
she then said.... I can't kill myself..b/c you kids are my burden/responsibility..
maybe I should kill us all.. you kids first..

anyhoo. I internalised that .. as... im not enough,(my loving her/needing her).. for her to want to live..and shes right.. nooone did want us kids.. noone..
And I'l admitI didnt trust her not to kill me... cause gesshus.. she was ready to kill herself.. and she liked me less than herself.. and I was too scared to go to sleep at night.. from that age ..on...well before that as well. but sleep with 1 eye open in my homes...
but wanting to keep her alive as well..
just to see her try and smile..(cause I love her)
shes also ripped out my soul many ...many times.. I know the sound of a soul breaking)
Ive spent my life.. trying to.. make her happy.. to see even little things.. like a flower/colour/smell.. food... having a roof over head.. water... im very grateful.. for
waking up... water..etc..little things.. which are really huge things..(theyre just taken for granted) being concious of little things outside ourselves.. that are just basic.. but wonderful..
anyhoo. a couple years ago... I said.. you know what?.. IVe spent my life trying to help you be happy..etc.. but that's it..I give up.. you actually love being miserable....
and she laughed..cause its true...

yes everyday.. I still email her.. encourage her.. etc.. etc.. Tell her I love her.. shes a good mum... im glad shes around/alive...
I thank you Suzi... for being brave enough to share part of the inner you...
I hope you.. do...get that counselling...just so you can talk it out... connect...
and yes life can get better...
some days.. I tell my mum.. just today.. if you can cook a meal.. think about it..focus on it.. make it yummy.... then.. thats a good day..
well shes progressed..( this...last year)
(she was highly functional... career wise..but is retired)
and her intervention worker.. has her voluntering.. (slowly)/....etc..etc...
I told you abit of my story... cause I sorta relate to the kids in this..
they usually.. want their parent to live,,, and to be enough.. just being..
I have every faith in you suzy, That life can get better.. for you and your kids..
I think your brave and been hurt... and sensitive... but i think your strong.. compassionate and you will feel that again within you.. I hope... and have faith and love.. that your in this world..
peace.. because peace.. is much better than no peaceful life
I try at laugh once a day...eat once a day... rent comedies.. buy nice food... and have peace...

peace
 Faux Pa
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 21
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/7/2009 8:35:02 AM

He is in a sound mind to make this decision for himself and I fully believe he should be allowed to.

Agreed.
And we know he's entitled to refuse treatment. i.e. being fed via a PEG.
Should he refuse being fed via a PEG, is he entitled to ask that his pain be treated? Probably yes?
Presumably the medical staff will provide as much pain relief as he requires.
Presumably he'll need more and more 'pain relief' as time passes.
Presumably at some point, that 'pain relief' will indeed relieve everything . . not just the pain.
Given we already know the outcome, why don't we cut to the chase and save him all that 'in between' pain?
Dang . . that suddenly becomes assisted suicide, doesn't it.

What if there was a mandatory seven day cooling off period like there is for door to door sales. You know . . if he still wants to go ahead with the whole thing, no one can say he didn't have a chance to rethink it all.
What if he's already made out one of these 'Life Wills' where he's requested that should a life ending / vegetable producing situation occur, that he not be resuscitated?

But anyway . . . my Mum passed away about two years ago. When I arrived at the hospital, I asked the doctor for an appraisal of the situation. To cut a long story short, he told me they had tried a number of treatments and none of them had worked . . and that they were (essentially) out of ideas. Of course, those weren't his words, but that's what he was conveying, but in a very appropriate and caring manner.
I had arrived carrying on about feeding her through a tube while he was trying to tell me that this was her time to go. It took some time for all that to sink in, but he was right. I just hadn't come to terms with it.
My Mum had always indicated how she wanted her life to play out when her time came. We'd casually talked about this stuff many times around the kitchen table . . as you do.
There was no big hoo-har about it. The medical staff managed her pain. We all knew what was going to happen. It was fine.

It seems to me that this guy in the OP is doing no more than that.
 potsmoker2009
Joined: 5/20/2009
Msg: 22
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/12/2009 7:43:05 AM
i believe in euthanasia, i dont think government has any right to tell us when we have to die. Especially in this case, what a joke.
 JulietJuliet
Joined: 2/5/2009
Msg: 23
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:28:59 AM
Why is the word 'Dignity' abused? Why are some people left on life support machines for years, yet other's can have their's disconnected as soon as a family member gives the green light?
I hope the courts can see through this man's eyes and grant him his right to die with DIGNITY.
 ocrikeymikey
Joined: 12/15/2004
Msg: 24
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History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:53:38 AM
The public opinion on this mans case in WA has been overwhelmingly in favour of him and his right to end his misery. Its strange the way that politicians of both major parties here dont want their opinion heard though,normally theyll jump onto any public opinion bandwagon. It really bemuses me,on such a high profile story in the media,their silence has been deafening!

Obviously for any future euthanasia policy there would have to be strict guidelines in place,but I get a little offended at people telling him he has to live his life of misery.
Apparently his nursing home isnt capable of hosting a court hearing,so hell have to appear in court himself,(causing him even more discomfort),and have to sit in a court alongside right to life groups and their lawyers who will be right there in the room with him making a case to prolong HIS misery because of THEIR beliefs!

If any pro life supporters were unfortunate enough to find themselves in his position I would fully respect that decision and expect taxpayers money to be spent making their life as comfortable as possible. And it would be THEIR decision to make,as far as Im concerned,this is not their decision to make,its not my decision to make,its his decision to make.
 Chiny®™©
Joined: 7/2/2006
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:29:33 AM

The West Australian newspaper reports Mr Rossiter attempted to commit suicide in the early 1990s.

Mr Rossiter said he had swallowed painkillers and tried to drown himself while severely depressed and in pain after being badly injured in a fall from a 30-metre building in 1988.

He became a quadriplegic last year when he was struck by a car while cycling.


Whilst probably not making any difference to his present application/situation, it is nonetheless of interest that the applicant attempted suicide several years prior to the accident that left him a quadriplegic. No doubt the court will be taking that past attempt into account in its deliberations.
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