| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:06:16 AM | In this day of improving public transport i deceided to catch the train tonight to coventry tonight and come back tomorrow. No problem, till i ask for a return ticket coming back tomorrow, ahh you carnt do that sir.
why not?
any journey in the west midlands area is classed as local.
but i can buy a return ticket but not come back on tomorrow?
yes, thats correct.
So now what do i have to do now?
buy 2 single tickets, one now, the other tomorrow.
so it will cost me 14 quid instead of 7.50?
yes sir, with a smile on their face!
why carnt the rail companies see how stupid this is! What other rules of the rail do you know? Or more importantly get around them? | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:18:30 AM |
What other rules of the rail do you know?
The 'rules of the rail' are very simple really.
They are designed to make the fare paying public as confused as possible with all the ridiculous fare structures they have. That way the chances are that those of us who don't travel by rail very often will just give up and pay the inflated prices they want.
I was looking at travelling down to Brighton from the Midlands a couple of weeks ago, going on a Tuesday and returning on a Thursday. It got so bloody complicated that I did the only sensible thing. I went in my car! | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:21:35 AM | Same up here, for a local journey you have to return the same day if you want a cheap fare.
What also annoys me is that a return is sometimes about ten pence dearer than a single fare, people going one way get hit in the pocket. Also that rail tickets are significantly more expensive before 9am in the morning.
Long distance it's different, 2 singles can be cheaper than a return. However, to get the really cheap fares you need to be online or phone up 12 weeks in advance because they go so quickly. I'm going to London in August and in October. In August it's costing me 50 quid return. In October £33 quid return, however, when the cheap fares run out, £100 quid each way. If you are going anywhere long distance in a hurry, forget it.
The only thing I've learned about buying rail tickets, if going long distance, buy a ticket as quickly as you can, 2 singles are cheaper than return and buy online where you can.
For local journeys even if its a pain in the backside to go a longer distance, I use the bus, it's £10.50 for a weeks unlimited bus travel throughout Lanarkshire and £14.50 if you want to travel to Glasgow. | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:26:45 AM | Exacly labdien, i went from brum to milton keynes for 7.50 return, yet cannot do redditch to cov! Did ask if they do advance tickets, not for local journeys! 
its like little britain, computer says no! | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:44:19 AM |
why carnt the rail companies see how stupid this is! What other rules of the rail do you know? Or more importantly get around them?
Not only railways, the ferry to get off the island is the same, as is the local trains...
Buses aint much better either.
Public transport on the island is ok, but so expensive...
If I were to catch the bus to work and back it would cost me £5 and a 15minute walk is involved when I do get to work, or I could spent another £3 on another bus instead of walking...
Public transport is a joke, they dont make it viable to use it in anyway at all, which is why I dont!
My cars are more expensive for sure, but you wouldnt catch me dead on public transport...
Even on a saturday nite it isnt worth it, the smell of kababs and used wine isnt good at any time of day! | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:44:19 AM | I have bought train tickets online and done a search which told me a cheaper price for tickets, gone to buy the cheaper travel tickets and found I couldn't get them fares. So I have then caught the bus into town and gone into the train ticket office and got the time train I wanted, and at the cheaper fare. When I questioned it I was told it was down to allocation 
Done the same online for National Express funsavers fares too. They do certain routes for £1 which works out good but sometimes you have to buy singles which pushes the price up. I know some people can't stand the coach but I know people who have travelled for £4 return long distance before down to London etc.. which is a great price.  | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:44:30 AM |
In this day of improving public transport i deceided to catch the train tonight to coventry tonight and come back tomorrow. No problem, till i ask for a return ticket coming back tomorrow, ahh you carnt do that sir.
why not?
any journey in the west midlands area is classed as local.
but i can buy a return ticket but not come back on tomorrow?
yes, thats correct.
So now what do i have to do now?
buy 2 single tickets, one now, the other tomorrow.
so it will cost me 14 quid instead of 7.50?
yes sir, with a smile on their face!
why carnt the rail companies see how stupid this is! What other rules of the rail do you know? Or more importantly get around them?
Just as well I am in a mood... and after a fight..... thanks....
I have worked for the railways for years... So I'll tell you what the rule is...
If it is a Distance less that 40 Miles, then they can only be sold as "day tickets".... Terms of Carriage for the railways since the year dot..... the government at the people who put together the rules of carriage... not the railway companies.... | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 11:50:40 AM |
The 'rules of the rail' are very simple really.
They are designed to make the fare paying public as confused as possible with all the ridiculous fare structures they have. That way the chances are that those of us who don't travel by rail very often will just give up and pay the inflated prices they want.
I was looking at travelling down to Brighton from the Midlands a couple of weeks ago, going on a Tuesday and returning on a Thursday. It got so bloody complicated that I did the only sensible thing. I went in my car!
ooooh.... where do i start... cue the boxing gloves.....
Right...first of all, lets debunk a myth!!!
there are only 3 sorts of tickets now actually on sale in the uk
Advance..... bought in advance, explanation simple
Off-peak..... to travel well...off peak... general rule after 9-9.30am
Anytime...... to travel anytime.......
All advance tickets sold as single.... single + single equals return.....
All advance tickets go on sale up to approx 10-12 weeks before travel...... Further in advance you book, cheaper the price likely to be.......
ooooh... Same principle as....ooooh..... the low cost airlines!!!!!! | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:00:57 PM |
All advance tickets sold as single.... single + single equals return.....
All advance tickets go on sale up to approx 10-12 weeks before travel...... Further in advance you book, cheaper the price likely to be.......
ooooh... Same principle as....ooooh..... the low cost airlines!!!!!!
Indeed, but do you think it is right that if you aren't online at exactly the 12 weeks before you want to travel that you pay a comparative fortune? Most cheap fares sell out within a couple of days of going on sale. £200 quid to travel from Motherwell to London standard class for example?
People don't always know their travel plans that well in advance. As for the service, I used to be able to travel from Motherwell directly to Manchester. I now need to go almost 20 miles in the opposite direction and then travel back through Motherwell and change another twice. I also used to be able to have a decent choice of trains going south, now the majority of them don't stop at Motherwell, even though it's a mainline station.
Asking people to add several hours onto their journey because certain routes are taken off without any discussion isn't going to make people want to use the train.
Off peak fares hit commuters in the pocket unless they buy a travel card. Just because the low cost airlines also operate on this principle doesn't make it right.
Some bus companies travel between the major cities and have the same prices every week of the year. For long distances train would be my preferred choice of travel, but there are times where it has simply not been an option.
All advance tickets sold as single.... single + single equals return.....
Why then does it say on many websites you may be cheaper buying 2 singles than a return. GNER used to say it, virgin does and so does National Express.
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:13:12 PM | single + single equals return.....
Well........ no. Single plus single very often means less than return. In other words it is cheaper in many cases to book a single to your destination and a single back home than to book a return ticket. How does that make sense?
ooooh... Same principle as....ooooh..... the low cost airlines!!!!!!
I fly about once a month, usually with Ryanair. I find their pricing system very much easier than the rail networks. Book early pay low, book late pay high. That's simple economics. The rail system throws in loads of other alternatives. Travel early or late pay low, travel at rush hour pay high, travel at any time that doesn't suit them pay high, travel at a sensible time pay high. You want a a seat? You're bloody joking aren't you? Oh no, hold on.... you want a seat book first class, then pay ludicrously high! | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 1:58:11 PM | phew..... where do i start!!! lol
Indeed, but do you think it is right that if you aren't online at exactly the 12 weeks before you want to travel that you pay a comparative fortune? Most cheap fares sell out within a couple of days of going on sale. £200 quid to travel from Motherwell to London standard class for example?
before I worked in the industry I said the same thing, but you would be surprised about just how many do book anywhere up till 8-12 weeks in advance ... the answer is that a lot of people do! next time you do that journey.. pm me, and i'll see what i can do
if you want an industry standand about 30-40% of tickets are set at a cheaper rate....
even on the day of travel the price of an off peak return from Motherwell to London is 108.80 and i bet that even if you had to travel peak, i bet i could find you a cheaper ticket up to 1-2 days before you travel than the "buy on the day" price
People don't always know their travel plans that well in advance.
Absolutely...... however the same thing would apply to the airlines.... but people are quick to complain about trains, and less quick to complain about planes..
As for the service, I used to be able to travel from Motherwell directly to Manchester. I now need to go almost 20 miles in the opposite direction and then travel back through Motherwell and change another twice. I also used to be able to have a decent choice of trains going south, now the majority of them don't stop at Motherwell, even though it's a mainline station.
Asking people to add several hours onto their journey because certain routes are taken off without any discussion isn't going to make people want to use the train.
If that has happened in this situation I can sympathise with you.....it's not the company I work for, but i can certainly point you in the direction of the people who will take it up for you.....they are the office of the rail regulator, and are really good at sorting out this type of thing...
Off peak fares hit commuters in the pocket unless they buy a travel card. Just because the low cost airlines also operate on this principle doesn't make it right.
Some bus companies travel between the major cities and have the same prices every week of the year. For long distances train would be my preferred choice of travel, but there are times where it has simply not been an option.
again sympathise with you.... the reason why they have gone to single legged tickets is 2 fold...
1) to eventually standard tickets all across europe....... everything will be done as singles...
2) under the old system, because cheap tickets were done as returns... there were a lot of cheap tickets that were unable to be sold (where a cheap ticket would be available one way, but not the other... so the higher priced ticket had to be sold) | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 2:08:18 PM |
Well........ no. Single plus single very often means less than return. In other words it is cheaper in many cases to book a single to your destination and a single back home than to book a return ticket. How does that make sense?
Actually what I meant was Single Ticket Out + Single Ticket Return ..... and that is normally Cheaper than an Open Return........ sorry if i didn't make it clear....
I fly about once a month, usually with Ryanair. I find their pricing system very much easier than the rail networks. Book early pay low, book late pay high. That's simple economics. The rail system throws in loads of other alternatives. Travel early or late pay low, travel at rush hour pay high, travel at any time that doesn't suit them pay high, travel at a sensible time pay high. You want a a seat? You're bloody joking aren't you? Oh no, hold on.... you want a seat book first class, then pay ludicrously high........
okay.... couple of questions..... how far in advance do you book for Ryanair ticket.... and since you book it in advance, apply the same principle to trains, it is exactly the same principle as ryanair... but you may not know it.... book early pay low... book late pay high, travel on popular routes and popular times and you'll not find a cheap ticket... even on your beloved ryanair!!!!!
oh.... and from someone on the "inside"... ryanair are looking at replacing there booking engine... and actually want one used by one of the railway company.... | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/8/2009 5:57:47 PM | | 14 quid to get to coventry and back! wow. totally stupid considering you can get a return ticket to london marylebone for 18 quid open month return if you travel at certain times. its the same travelling to birmingham. total rip off | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 3:37:53 AM | I would like to travel by train to visit the seaside/countryside for the day.
I want to go when the weather is fine.
Unfortunately we do not know in advance whether the weather on a specific day will be fine or not.
I don't particularly want to visit anywhere on a rainy day.
I don't want to be ripped-off with regards ticket pricing, which I will be if I purchase a ticket on day of travel.
So, what do I do?
I simply won't bother going by train and will use my car instead. | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 4:29:32 AM |
okay.... couple of questions..... how far in advance do you book for Ryanair ticket....
That varies enormously, sometimes I know my travel needs 4 or 5 weeks in advance, sometimes its a last minute scramble and I'm booking just a day or two in advance. And yes, you're right, the later you book the more expensive it becomes, but then that's not really my point, what I'm saying is the their system is simpler because you are presented with a far less bewildering array of fares for the same journey. There's your flight time and there's your price.
I know that Ryanair have a bewildering array of extras though! Thankfully I'm only ever carrying cabin luggage so I don't fall into any of the other categories. I pay for priority boarding, check in online, print off my boarding card and arrive at the airport about an hour before my flight.
Maybe its because I rarely travel by train (maybe three or four times in the past 20 years!) and I fly extremely often that I find the airline booking system so simple.
your beloved ryanair!!!!!
I do like Ryanair I must say, but not that much! Generally speaking their prices are good, I have never suffered a delay of any more than 10 or 15 minutes and they have always got me down in one piece. I know some people have had different experiences with them but I find them OK.
They are the only airline that flies directly from the UK to Riga, my other choices are KLM which means changing planes at Schipol, or Air Baltic which involves a change at any one of half a dozen or so different airports somewhere in Europe!
ryanair are looking at replacing there booking engine... and actually want one used by one of the railway company....
Is this when they will bring in their 'standing room only' tickets I wonder? | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 4:38:22 AM | LOL
Exactly peter1951.
and what about if you had a pushchair, and the associated paraphernalia that you get with toddlers, and a picnic basket, and towels and the associated paraphernalia you get when you want to go swimming.
Its just not feasable.
(I know that some people do this, I think they should get medals!)
I used to be a cabbie - did you know that taxis have to pay a subsidy to ply for hire from a station?theres another rule ... - anyhoo, the station I sometimes worked from had a footbridge to get to any platform, if you were in a wheelchair you had to book to get on the platform, at least 1/2 hour before the journey! (stations are exempt from DDA at the moment), if you had a baby in a puhchair you had to fold it up and carry baby and chair and everything else over, yet they continued to make profits! jeez! | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 4:43:54 AM | The whole problem with the rail network in this country at the moment is that - it is run to make a profit as opposed to being run as a service. If the government wants to offer a real alternative to road and to reduce our carbon footprint as a nation - that needs to change. So, stupid things like:
The train service from Brum to Stratford on Avon (that obscure never visited tourist destination) does not finish at 8.30ish PM.
When I visit my station to go to London - (I am rural the station is 15 miles away with no public transport link)the cost of parking my car does not exceed the cost of my ticket and does not exceed the cost of diesel to get to London and back.
When Badgey (or anyone else) wants to make a local trip - a return ticket is available at a discount over the price of 2 singles.
Railways are supposed to be cheap and efficient and affordable - like elsewhere. It shouldn't be cheaper to fly from London to Scotland than go by train - it often is by a massive amount. That's simply - wrong. | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 6:15:24 AM |
That varies enormously, sometimes I know my travel needs 4 or 5 weeks in advance, sometimes its a last minute scramble and I'm booking just a day or two in advance. And yes, you're right, the later you book the more expensive it becomes, but then that's not really my point, what I'm saying is the their system is simpler because you are presented with a far less bewildering array of fares for the same journey. There's your flight time and there's your price.
and again let me debunk a myth... in the UK now, you can only get 3 types of ticket
Advance ticket.....
Anytime ticket....
Off-Peak ticket....
just how much more simple do you want it?
Maybe its because I rarely travel by train (maybe three or four times in the past 20 years!) and I fly extremely often that I find the airline booking system so simple.
and i think thats where we get to the nub of the matter..... I hate airline booking systems because i can normally only check 1 or 2 flights at the same time....
the one that the railway company use, that ryanair are looking at bringing in will check entire days all in one go...... | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 6:45:32 AM |
I used to be a cabbie - did you know that taxis have to pay a subsidy to ply for hire from a station?theres another rule ... - anyhoo, the station I sometimes worked from had a footbridge to get to any platform, if you were in a wheelchair you had to book to get on the platform, at least 1/2 hour before the journey! (stations are exempt from DDA at the moment), if you had a baby in a puhchair you had to fold it up and carry baby and chair and everything else over, yet they continued to make profits! jeez!
okay..... now you are talking about my department and you have now gotten me angry because some of the stuff you said is not even close to being true....
1) overground uk Stations are not Exempt from the DDA, the only ones that are london underground ones, if a wheelchair user has to go from a station that is not accessable, the company who operate it actually pays for a w/chair accessable taxi, to take them to the nearest station that is........
2) yes they do ask passengers who need elderly and disabled assistance to be at stations approx 30 minutes before travel (we normally say to people at smaller stations 20-25 minutes) this is done for a couple of reasons....
a) how do you as a cabbie know how many assistance the staff at the station may have for any given train... the answer is you dont!!! so the gap gives staff leeway to get people into the right positions, also means you are not having to rush if you have more than one passenger needing assistance... also means staff will small numbers can sort this out better
b) I'll give you an example.... for december 27th.... the busiest day of the year of travel.... one major london station had over 500 booked assistances... and thats without the ones that just turn up and ask! it can be time consuming....
3) we do book assistance for babies and pushchairs.... Always have done.... the staff at the stations are allowed to help with the luggage, but are not allowed to help with the children (that is as a circumstance of "sarah's law") we get shouted out more from people with babies and pushchairs because they are not allowed to keep them upright in the wheelchair space....... as the space has to be kept free for a wheelchair user under the DDA, and quite frankly for health and saftey... I've seen them topple on rough journeys!!!! | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 6:52:54 AM |
Railways are supposed to be cheap and efficient and affordable - like elsewhere. It shouldn't be cheaper to fly from London to Scotland than go by train - it often is by a massive amount. That's simply - wrong.
book both in advance and you will get a cheap journey....... book both on the day of travel and neither is going to be cheap! same principle applies to coaches as well if we bring them into the general travel discussion as well....
the funny thing is being honest with passengers I have had people saying "well it is cheaper to fly", if that is the case then book it... i am all for saving money as much as anyone else..... but if that is the case then why come back 5 minutes later when you find out it actually isn't | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 6:59:08 AM | Fair play to sarcastic spice for trying to defend the networks, and some points i do agree with you when the government interfear or meddle with them.
BUT again what a_corn says is true where stratford is concerned. If i wanted to go by rail stratford i would have to go into brum, then to stratford.
brum is 16m north of redditch, and stratford is about 15m south of redditch, you do the maths never mind the costs and times.
shame there was no guards checking tickets today!  | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 7:16:10 AM |
book both in advance and you will get a cheap journey....... book both on the day of travel and neither is going to be cheap! same principle applies to coaches as well if we bring them into the general travel discussion as well....
Correct, however if I hadn't been able to get a cheap flight or a cheap train ticket to London, I'd have gone into Glasgow and got the megabus, wouldn't have been my preferred option, but their cheapest ticket to London is a fiver, their most costly is 23 quid ,even the day before travel, more than 4 times the price, but still more affordable than the train.
I was in Glasgow yesterday and that bus company was packed. I think the earlier poster was talking about confusing price structures, not types of ticket. I've found in the last that by splitting up my journey I've been able to get cheaper tickets and there are companies such as the trainline and raileasy that you might be able to get cheap tickets on when the other companies have run out.
Theres a website that helps you if you want to split up the fares to get a better deal, www.splitfare.co.uk
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/how-to-beat-the-train-fare-blues-1766023.html
I think the poster above was talking about fares being confusing, not the types of ticket. | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 7:37:26 AM | There is another anomoly I have just come accross.
I intend to travel on a journey of about 300 miles in November. Checking rail fares I came up with a figure which I was happy with. I then decided that I may like to break one journey to see friends at an intermediate town.
I checked the fares again and discovered that even though I now no longer intend to break my journey it is cheaper to book a return A to B and another B to C rather than directly A to C. No change of train would be involved as it is direct train from A to C.
I am wondering how many more breaks of journey I could incorporate. | |
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| Return ticket? Not for different days you carnt!
Posted: 8/9/2009 8:05:49 AM | I mentioned that above somewhere, I've done that before, when I went to Manc in March I went from Motherwell-Preston Preston-Manc and it was about half the price. Probably because when all the direct cheap fares are sold out for the direct ticket, you might still be able to get cheap tickets for other parts of the journey.
A pain in the backside but well worth doing if you have the time. | |
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