| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 2:50:09 PM | The United Church of Canada, this week in Kelowna, is proposing a complete boycott of Israel. Not one to mistakenly paraphrase such a touchy subject, I cut and paste from the Vancouver Sun OpEd piece, and the reactions of 2 UCC members. Notoriously absent from the UCC agenda was ANY discussion of the atrocities committed by Iran, such as rape of both male and female prisoners who were part of the resistance to the current election. Jews, as we all know, are easy targets and UCC is taking careful aim...read on..
A series of resolutions and supporting material on "Israel/Palestine" up for debate at the UCC's General Council in Kelowna next week suggest the church is not just stepping away from the Jewish community, but turning its back on us.
The materials are hurtful, both for what they say and what they glaringly omit. For example, there is no recognition of the existential threat facing Israel -- from suicide bombers, missiles and the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran. There is no mention whatsoever of the hundreds of rockets launched from Gaza that have wreaked catastrophic physical and emotional damage on Israeli civilians. Nor is there a single reference to Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran. Despite claiming to seek a solution to the Middle East conflict, the UCC is painting Israel as the sole obstacle to peace and exculpating the Palestinians.
Its resolutions ally the church with the enemies of Israel, supporting the "Durban strategy" of boycotts, divestment and sanctions launched at the 2001 World Conference Against Racism. This campaign goes well beyond mere criticism of Israeli policies -- it seeks to marginalize and vilify Israel as the "new Nazi state" or the putative successor to apartheid South Africa.
If passed, these resolutions will repudiate the courageous and constructive approach of the last UCC General Council. At that time, the church rejected the call to boycott Israel and to apply methods that brought down the true apartheid regime in South Africa, and instead supported an investment strategy to contribute to peace and security for both Israelis and Palestinians.
Perhaps more disturbingly, the explanatory documentation to support the resolutions constitutes an inflammatory assault on Canadian Jews. Using loaded and misleading terms, the material speaks casually of Israel being founded on land "ethnically cleansed of its Palestinian owners" and of what it refers to as the "recent assault on the population of Gaza" as constituting "a visible reminder of the ongoing Israeli regime of exclusion, violence and dehumanization directed against Palestinians, in violation of international law and human rights standards." These are not objective statements of fact, but rather one-sided sloganeering that is entirely unhelpful to anyone who wants to truly understand the current situation in the Middle East.
Particularly egregious are the resolutions' "notes," which suggest that support for the state of Israel is the product of corruption and descends into florid anti-Semitism, with smirking insinuations about the loyalty of Jewish Canadians who hold dual citizenship or have affiliations with the Jewish state.
Rev. George Schmidt
August 07, 2009 - 1:16 PM :
This piece by Mr. Farber is right on target. As a (retired) minister of the United Church, I want to declare openly and publicly my disdain for the authors of the hate-filled and one-sided proposals that are to be considered at the meeting of the General Council in Kelowna. My hope and prayer is that the Commissioners will give this piece of anti-Jewish propaganda the treatment it deserves. But if not, I will request that the relevant denominational body take steps to place my name on the "discontinued list" of minsters. This means that I will no longer have official standing re my ministerial credentials within the denomination. But as a Christian who gratefully acknowledges the Jewish roots of his faith, (after all Jesus was a Jewish rabbi) at least I will have a clear conscience before God.
Paul MacMillan
August 07, 2009 - 2:10 PM :I too write as a member of the UCC and like Rev.Schmidt am heartbroken that members of my church would put forward such an ill-sdvised resolution. We owe Mr. Farber a debt of gratitude for his forthright approach in asking that we UCCers reject outright the non-representative few who sponsored this anti-Jewish resolution. I am confidant that good sense will prevail but remain despondent that it even came to this.
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 6:21:36 PM |
Are you lost?
This is a dating/relationships site - not politics.
I think you may be taking the dating thing to seriously.
Thanks to bringing this to our attention, OP. As for your post, this behavior sounds very unchristian. I also see that it is a slap in the face to Canadian Jews. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 7:23:02 PM | I think I am missing something here
A call for complete boycott by one religious group is to the best of my understanding a far cry from a Declaration of War
The problems of Israel and its mostly US based supporters are grossly exaggerated realities; most the dilemma self created and innocence declared on all accounts under the guise of racism and two thousand years of suffering.
In my life and travels I have never seen a nation or race with even half as much narcissism displayed compared to what the world has seen promoted predominantly by Israel and the US during the past six decades.
Having read stories of life of Jewish people of Europe in the eighteen hundreds I am sure these peace loving distant ancestors of mine would agree.
I am sorry to say OP, I do resent the Thread topic as sensationalism, bill boarding, sympathy seeking, on behalf of a sovereign nation and its population.
I consider people of Israel or any other nation, Jewish or any other faith or belief all the same and equal.
Pointing out a small group of a religious organization in this country who are exercising their democratic rights to voice their thoughts and even act on them in non violence constitutes pointing a prejudicial finger at someone else.
IMO that too is an act of promoting racism.
nuff said | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 7:36:03 PM | To be quite honest, I do not understand why this thread was started in the BC forum's. I believe it should have been started in General Discussion/Off topic.
A series of resolutions and supporting material on "Israel/Palestine" up for debate at the UCC's General Council in Kelowna next week suggest the church is not just stepping away from the Jewish community, but turning its back on us.
Firstly I do not see, nor have I ever seen in the past, an affiliation between the United Church of Canada and any Jewish Synagogue or its faith. Each has it's own beliefs and religious structures. I agree with ML that this statement in itself is "sensationalism" and grandstanding, in my humble opinion.
*Edit* @ Jane below
Understand your thoughts, but is this not creating or fueling a fire (believe me when I say that the Kelowna and surrounding area has suffered their fair share of "fires") that is not truly there, and is only voiced by an extremely small sect of the UCC?
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 7:49:40 PM | The first sentence says that it was the United Church in Kelowna. I am not sure if this makes it fit here or not but it is here now.
The OP posts here often so perhaps he/she wants British Columbians to know. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 8:16:41 PM | PLUS... let me leave you with this thought...
The OP is from the Eastern part of Canada,
has declared himself as Non Religious,
and yet, posts in the BC threads about topics that normally (Kelowna?) he would know nothing about...
I have to wonder who is feeding him such info from BC....
Trolls that make you go Hummmmm....
I found this right now on the Kelowna.com website...
Church delegates hold off on Israel debate
Tuesday, August 11th, 2009 | 6:55 pm
By Joe Fries
The Canadian Jewish Congress won the first skirmish today, but the larger battle will start up again Thursday at the United Church of Canada’s General Council meeting in Kelowna.
Some of the roughly 400 delegates to the weeklong gathering at UBCO had been assigned the task of vetting four proposals that take a strong stance against Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians.
The quartet of proposed policies, drawn from a number of other pieces that also deal with routine matters of the church, called in part for a boycott of Israeli cultural and academic institutions, and businesses that earn a buck by supporting “Zionist policies.”
Even before delegates arrived, the Canadian Jewish Congress had labelled some of the material anti-Semitic.
When the matters finally came before delegates today, they agreed voted almost unanimously to “repudiate and regret” much of the background material attached to the proposals.
One of the background documents, for example, called for a boycott of a number of large companies, from Coca-Cola to Victoria’s Secret, which it claimed “are supporting the racist occupation of Palestine.”
Bernie Farber, CEO of the Canadian Jewish Congress, said afterwards that he was “surprised at the reasonableness shown in relation to denouncing the language.
Still, Farber took exception to the church’s move. “I wish they would have acknowledged it for what it was, and that was anti-Semitic,” he added.
The four motions, three from churches in the Toronto area and another from the Montreal-Ottawa region, will be back on the table Thursday, as delegates voted in favour of taking a closer look before voting.
There is a motion on the floor to simply receive the motions as information and take no actions. That motion will be the first order of business Thursday. If it’s defeated, delegates will then dig back in to the proposals.
“My sense is lots of people have real concerns with a boycott, and it looks like they’re going to go in another direction,” Farber said. “They know that by calling for a boycott, the dialogue would be over.”
In the meantime, he continued, “We talk, and we talk, and we talk some more.”
Bruce Gregersen, spokesman for the General Council, said delegates spoke with a “clear, strong voice,” and that there is clearly “concern over a number of the proposals.”
Farber suggested beforehand, that proposals are the work of a small group within the United Church bent on propagating its anti-Israel views.
There was no real protest at the meeting, although the congress had an information booth set up and a sign in the men’s room read: “Stand up for Israel and the Jewish people.”
So people, let's hear it for freedom of speech and democracy in Canada! | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 9:44:33 PM | ?????
So people, let's hear it for freedom of speech and democracy in Canada!
^^^^^ Apparently NOT allowed on this site, and especially THIS forum ...to resonate echoes of anything denoting "religious" ......  | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/11/2009 11:07:10 PM | Well I have one am pretty fed up with propaganda on all sides and feel this debate belongs in the religious section.
They are BOTH wrong. AND the Western World was wrong for not treating Jews more humanely. AND Jews are wrong for constantly banging the poor us you Nazi lovers drum whenever their interests are threatened. not to mention their side of the conflict against the Palestinian people. And of course the Palestinians are wrong.
But most especially the OP is wrong wrong wrong wrong to inflict his biased opinions on us whilst complaining of opinions biased against Jews.
Jeepers.
It's enough to make one join EHarmonie (spelling?) | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 2:30:16 AM | There is nothing as pointless or self-demeaning as saying "Everyone is wrong".
To be honest, i don't care if a bunch of people in kelowna boycot Israel, but it does interest me to see that some people stand up and speak their mind about it. Or as the saying goes: all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing, so i'm glad that reverened had a mind to speak up.
Do yourself a favor and don't put down those that speak their mind, especially when they're not harming anyone by doing so.
By the way, how about boycotting ICBC, or Translink , or something more practical that might actually improve our lives ;)
boycots, in BC... heh. good one. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:28:42 AM | Propaganda is harmful whether it be against the Jews or for them - it has you calling other people (church going people no less) "evil". That is the problem when one takes one side of the issue.
And what do I see? aterribleaspect thinks everyone on here should speak their mind but if he/she disagrees their posts are "self-demeaning".
How tolerant! - that is why this thread should not be here. Politics is the forum for debates of this sort or religion, depending on your take on it. THAT is my point. NOT that people cannot debate all they wish - but that they do so in the forum that is set up for that purpose. Not to propagandize one point of view.
Jeepers I'm on sabbatical from all things political at the moment, especially from such obviously self-interested kvetch. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:41:36 AM |
Do yourself a favor and don't put down those that speak their mind, especially when they're not harming anyone by doing so.
Come on now. Do you really think copy/pasting an opinion piece from a newspaper qualifies as speaking one's mind?
To be honest, i don't care if a bunch of people in kelowna boycot Israel, but it does interest me to see that some people stand up and speak their mind about it.
Why are nearly 100% of your posts devoted to the Israel/Palestine conflict if you don't care? | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:42:13 AM | | Wow i just read the most heinous ignorant and fascist response to this thread and although i'm not going to name names, you know what you're doing bud. the statements you're making are plain inflammatory and you should be embarrassed. I don't know whether to scream or die laughing! better not to give it too much energy...it'll just piss me off and i'll say too much and get banned. but i will say this...NEWSFLASH! Narcissists? You mean narcissists like the nazis? LOL!!! Ever been to Israel? I have cousins over there, and they're not soft, and they don't care who "declares war" on them, ok? they're used to it. As for the United Church, they're supposed to be separate from politics, so it's just about anti-semitism - blatant red-necked ignorance like the kind we read in the response above. anyway, better go kick some narcissistic ass in israel, big guy LOOOOOOL! keep a photo journal and let us know how that goes - don't forget to goosestep! what an idiot... | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:53:26 AM | Why are nearly 100% of your posts devoted to the Israel/Palestine conflict if you don't care?
LOL  5 points for racemic...
Anyway, I agree with debra2008, and I have noticed that pretty much ALL the hate propaganda I've seen in this area lately has been coming from Israelis and their supporters, bashing Palestinians as if this is somehow going to convince me that Israel is justified in doing whatever it does. It's downright insulting.
That comment is as far as I care to involve myself in this intractable mess, and I too don't see this really has much to do with BC even if it does tangentially relate to news from Kelowna. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:48:18 AM |
..NEWSFLASH! Narcissists? You mean narcissists like the nazis? LOL!!! Ever been to Israel?
since you asked, while on an international peacekeeping mission left 5 of 8 men under 22 years old behind dead as the result of an unprovoked and cowardly attack on a refugee camp of about 40 women and their infants...
nuff said | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 11:03:12 AM |
Wow i just read the most heinous ignorant and fascist response to this thread and although i'm not going to name names, you know what you're doing bud. the statements you're making are plain inflammatory and you should be embarrassed. I don't know whether to scream or die laughing! better not to give it too much energy...it'll just piss me off and i'll say too much and get banned. but i will say this...NEWSFLASH! Narcissists? You mean narcissists like the nazis? LOL!!! Ever been to Israel? I have cousins over there . . .
I have a colleague and friend with family in Israel. The children are very young. Every time there is some sort of upset, he becomes very stressed. I put myself in my colleagues position and tried to imagine how he would view the original post.
The entire thing is not very Protestant. God doesn't want us slaughtering one another with guns or racial slurs.
Seriously, IMO, Hitler's Nazis were Narcissists in that they wanted to practice eugenics (selective breeding) to produce a planet of blue eyed blonds. I am not saying that all Nazis subscribed to this view. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 11:10:27 AM | ^^^^^ Apparently NOT allowed on this site, and especially THIS forum ...to resonate echoes of anything denoting "religious" ......
Resonating is one thing ... spewing a specific agenda on every message regardless of the topic title is another and is not tolerated by the management of this PRIVATE, FREE discussion forum. I am here because I like the format that, in this case, happens to be shaped by the rules! Read them, follow them or find somewhere where the structure and boundaries for communicating in forums don't offend you! Rather than just biotching and whining away about something that is not within your control ... or anyones but the owners of this site! And .... good luck with finding that it ANY forum as those without rules are also those with the most chaos,acrimony and mind boggling repetition of misinformation.
Repeating your dissatisfaction about one situation in every thread you can is basically the same type of "agenda pursuit"!
I do not believe what the United Church declares can be properly defined as war.
BTW forum management removed the religion AND politics forums, over a year ago,
as too much endless arguing and flaming occurred on them for many years. Now, anything that fits in either of those categories has only "off topic" as it's rightful home.
So... a few spin off sites were started by disgruntled members so that they could continue arguing and flaming and pretty much disregard anything to do with dating and relationships, like they were here! lol | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 2:46:01 PM | Of course there's an agenda, there's always an agenda. My agenda is clear, i'm just here to defend Israel on the forum. Do i care that some people boycott Israel? Yes i do. Do i care that they're doing it in Kelowna? less so, if only because i know how active people really are in this province (not so much).
Boycot Coca Cola? Yeah, good luck with that.
My agenda is very openly pro Israel but you don't see me asking you to boycot every lebanese donair falafel in your city, do ya? That's because i recognize that this type of action doesn't help my agenda or support my "side". Being pro Israel doesn't have to mean being anti anything, just as much as being pro Palestinean doesn't have to mean being anti Israel.
I just find it personally fascinating that people still insist on spending all that energy on this one little country that has nothing to do with their lives.
You're not really helping the Palestineans any by boycotting Israel, so think about what that really means, who is it trying to affect and in what way. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 3:10:07 PM |
since you asked, while on an international peacekeeping mission left 5 of 8 men under 22 years old behind dead as the result of an unprovoked and cowardly attack on a refugee camp of about 40 women and their infants...
nuff said
Last time i heard that type of nonsense it started with 30 innocent children dead in a direct attack on a school for boys in gaza, and turned out to be zero innocent children dead by fragments that hit the wall after a tank fired on a armed men in the road next to the school that was asked to evacuate hours before. The head of UNWRA corroborated that no one actually got hurt.
So it's not that i'm saying that you're lying, i'm just very skeptic about your story because the Israeli army doesn't usually attack refugee camps. I'd ask for more details, but this isn't the topic of the thread. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 3:48:11 PM | Why I posted?
This is taking place in Kelowna. So its topical. And I live here in Toronto now, but this has been a brief hiatus from my life in Vancouver, to which I am returning in the Fall, having had to move back here to help my mother with Alzheimers care.
Second; asking people to go to my profile to dis me has nothing to do with the issue. Dont get personal, deal with the issue. Plz, thx, kaibye.
Third: Why is Israel singled out, and at this time? Arent there bigger fish to fry? How much is this issue really pressing on us, given Darfur, Iran, North Korea, Sri Lanka and a hundred other hot spots in the world where real abuses occur daily. Why not have the UCC mobilize against the 200,000 cases of rape that have occurred in the Congo over the recent past, you know, the rapes that Senator Clinton is over there trying to address and deal with?
Instead, UCC is grandstanding on Israel bashing. I say leave the Jews alone, for Gods sake and deal with pressing human rights issues which abound in the rest of the world....Tibet, Native American land claims, Egyptian dictatorships, flogging of women in Gaza, honor killings in Pakistan.
But it seems the UCC is being influenced by an anti Jewish, anti Israeli group who are going to do what was admonished in the musical "Cabaret"...."you can always blame ze' Jews!~"
And if you dont think that massive boycotts which affect every man, woman and child in Israel isnt a form of economic warfare, then I admonish you to open a hardware store in Chicoutimi, have the entire town boycott your store, and then try to pay your rent. Boycotts are a form of economic attack. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:05:46 PM | They can boycott whoever the hellOOOOOO they want to boycott....
they are not speaking for me as a Canadian....although they are getting my tax money as they are a charity and a non-profit ...with many assets such as the retreat/spa in Naramata. | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:26:35 PM | This cut and paste thread should have been deleted by the mods.If one has a political or religious viewpoint, by all means, express your viewpoint in the proper thread. This forum is not the place according to POF posting rules.
Where are the mods? | |
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| United Church Declares War on Israel
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:47:50 PM | @ rita
please .... just pass over my posts. without comment directed at me personally.
we are not on the same page re: freedom from persecution of religious thought/belief .....you have your opinions .... I have mine.
thankyou. | |
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