| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:40:34 AM | Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi, the man convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie plane bombing is expected shortly to be released on compassionate grounds.
Eight and half years ago he was jailed for life for the murders of 270 people but now he is terminally ill with cancer.
Kathleen Flynn, whose son died on the plane, says he showed no mercy as he planted his bomb and should “never qualify for anything compassionate”. Some people are of the opinion that he wasn't guilty of the crime in the first place.
Ronnie Biggs was recently freed on compassionate grounds. This raises the question of why prisoners should be afforded the luxury of the freedom to die surrounded by their loved ones.
1) If this latest release is politically engineered, should politics be allowed to govern prisoner's sentences?
2) Is there any just reason why prisoners convicted of murder should be released on compassionate grounds?
News article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207280/Lockerbie-bomber-sending-clothes-Libya-weeks-ahead-expected-release.html | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:46:48 AM | I was appalled at hearing about this.
He's served 2 weeks for every life.
Life should mean life.
No compassion should come into it.
Was there any compassion felt at the time of the crime? | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:52:06 AM | I dont believe anyone convicted of murder should be released on compassionate grounds, they didnt show any compassion when they killed.
Although Ronnie Biggs was never convicted of murder. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:52:42 AM | I wasn't appalled at hearing this. Many people, including relatives of the people who died have questioned if he was guilty. Jim Swire being the most high profile.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/13/families-oppose-lockerbie-bomber-release
He has also had to give up the appeal against his conviction in order to be considered for release on compassionate grounds.
www.lockerbietruth.com | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:15:58 AM | In the case of murder, death or cruelty this becomes a very emotive subject to discuss.
I am not convinced that he was indeed the person responsible for the bombing of the aircraft, but that aside......
I suppose we must ask ourselves whether we would prefer to live in a compassionate country or a country full of cruelty and indifference. Furthermore we should consider whether the death of any prisoner would serve any useful purpose other than to satisfy those that seek vengence.
I am merely posing these questions because I personally believe that as a result of our suppport of Bush and our general foreign policy we have brought hatred upon this country and put ourselves under greater risk of violence and terrorism.
Maybe a more conciliatory approach with a little compassion is required if we are to move forward to a more peaceful world. Alternatively we could remain macho and promote more bloodshed and war! | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:39:58 AM | If he wasnt ill would we be questioning his guilt?
I think you have to consider the crime... the families of the dead. Its a good point about vengence though.... the guy is going to snuff it.. whats the point of keeping him in prison. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:46:56 AM | Sentencing someone to life...Surely that means they should die in prison, or am I missing the point.
I don't think he has shown any remorse and has not spent enough time in prison to have 'earnt' compassion.
He didn't want to go back to Lybia as a guilty man anyway, sure let the family see him before he goes but thats it.
My opinion. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:49:21 AM | I wasn't appalled at hearing this. Many people, including relatives of the people who died have questioned if he was guilty. Jim Swire being the most high profile.
Even if it turns out he was a small cog in a whole chain of events surrounding the bombing, does that mean he should be given a pat on the back and freed? Drug traffickers could be considered to be small cogs in big wheels but I don't see them being released on compassionate grounds somehow, do you?
I suppose we must ask ourselves whether we would prefer to live in a compassionate country or a country full of cruelty and indifference. Furthermore we should consider whether the death of any prisoner would serve any useful purpose other than to satisfy those that seek vengence
So does that mean the floodgates should be opened for all prisoners to be released on compassionate grounds if they are dying then? | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:35:01 AM |
Even if it turns out he was a small cog in a whole chain of events surrounding the bombing, does that mean he should be given a pat on the back and freed? Drug traffickers could be considered to be small cogs in big wheels but I don't see them being released on compassionate grounds somehow, do you?
How do we know he was part of any of the chain of events at all? There have been innocent people convicted to life in jail on very shaky evidence and later freed. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:40:36 AM |
If he wasnt ill would we be questioning his guilt?
Yes. I would have followed his appeal closely, the one he has to give up to get released. Which means his name will never be cleared if he is innocent. I think it suits those in authority to let him go as the appeal will never be heard. The families aren't happy as they wanted the appeal and there have been calls for it to go ahead anyway as they want to hear the evidence. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:46:35 AM | With respect, I don't think the fact that someone has been convicted and found guilty means that they were. Otherwise you would never have people being freed on appeal.
The justice system sometimes fails people. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:57:21 AM | I wouldn't like to be in the position of the person who has to make the decision - keep him in a Scottish jail or let him home to die; it's a hard call.
On the one hand - there are the people who were murdered - a henious crime.
On the other - a sick man dying many miles from his family - and maybe that family should be shown the compassion of easy access to him in his last few months.
To add to that - there's the complication that he's had to drop his appeal if he has any chance of going free. That in my opinion was a mistake; the families of the dead want the appeal to be heard, their wishes there should be respected and if the appeal finds he wasn't guilty of what he was locked up for, so be it. If he's found not guilty - there would be big repercussions for Anglo- Libyan and maybe Anglo - Arab relations, which the fanatics would capitalise upon.
So my guess is that he will be allowed to go home and die. Libya will be seen to get what it asked for - the appeal and threat that poses to the UK if won won't happen and if he's not the man responsible - Lockerbie will remain closed (for now) with the guilty free; if he's not the man. The US government doesn't want him freed; all sort of conspiracies have emerged regarding a CIA involvement about this - but probably - its the 'tough on terror' line they want to follow. My thoughts are that the UK will 'bite the bullet' on that and send him home. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:57:55 AM | \\I am merely posing these questions because I personally believe that as a result of our suppport of Bush and our general foreign policy we have brought hatred upon this country and put ourselves under greater risk of violence and terrorism.\\
That's right it's all Bush (II) fault, afterall there was no hatred of the West before he became President!
USS Cole - 2000 - Clinton
US Embassy Dar es Salaam - 1998 - Clinton
US Embassy Nairobi - 1998 - Clinton
Air France 8969 - 1994 - Clinton
WTC - 1993 - Clinton
Pan Am 103 - 1989 - Bush (I)
Rome Airport - 1985 - Regan
Vienna Aiport - 1985 - Reagan
Achille Lauro - 1985 - Regan
US Embassy Beirut - 1983 - Regan
50 Middle Eastern terror incidents between 1968 and 1973
in various European countries.
\\Maybe a more conciliatory approach with a little compassion is required if we are to move forward to a more peaceful world. Alternatively we could remain macho and promote more bloodshed and war!\\
And why not.... That policy worked well before Bush (II) came along! | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:12:31 AM | My point, which I'll repeat, is that we have brought hatred upon THIS country.
I can well understand the hatred much of the world has against the USA for its war-mongering foreign policy. I have never personally ever trusted the motives of the USA.
Terrorism on our own soil was basically limited to our own policies - I think specifically of Ireland.
BUT at least we have a Western presence in the Middle East.... nothing to do with oil of course! | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:17:45 AM |
what does it mean then? you mean after being convicted and found guilty you still believe they are innocent? whats the point in our judicial system then?
What I said underneath that was, that the justice system sometimes fails people, and it does. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:02:47 AM | \\My point, which I'll repeat, is that we have brought hatred upon THIS country.\\
Which countries have cut diplomatic ties with us as a result of our policies?
\\Terrorism on our own soil was basically limited to our own policies - I think specifically of Ireland.\\
And was that 'Terrorism of Ireland' sponsored by the Government of the Republic of Eire?
\\BUT at least we have a Western presence in the Middle East....\\
Correct, we have business interests in the ME just as they have business interests in the UK, I don't see a problem that...
\\nothing to do with oil of course!\\
A tad trite... But on that comment maybe you could explain why the UK/US imports only a small proportion of their oil requirments from the ME, and even that has reduced slightly since 2003? | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 9:18:22 AM | I repeat again "we have brought hatred upon THIS country" (the UK) by our support of ex-President Bush and his war-mongering cronies.
WTF are you going on about; cutting of diplomatic ties and terrorism of Ireland sponsored by.... Eire"?
Again I repeat "we have brought hatred upon THIS country...."
I agree with you.... our presence in the Middle East is due to our business interests and not to any perceived terrorist threat!
My comments regarding oil (business interests) in the Middle East is, according to you, trite.
The West is maintaining its forces in the middle East (British forces to remain in Afghanistan for 40 years?) to secure oil for its own use in the future. The fact that UK/US has imported less since 2003 is completely irrelevant to this argument.
Just another reminder: my point is that due to our blindly following the USA into war we have increased hatred to THIS country and have increased the risk of terrorism on our soil. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 10:43:39 AM | Did the b**sard feel any compassion when he killed all those people - like feck he did. Should he been shown compassion becasue his body has screwed up his life - like feck we should.
If you kill someone or many someones there is never a reason to feel compassion. The familys of those that died couldn't get the life sentence on their loved ones lifted so why should the Locerbie Bomber or any other murderer | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 12:26:55 PM | I'm not sure whether or not he was guilty of the crime he was convicted for but I do think that once a prisoner is tried and found guilty of a crime there should be no political intervention else the public will view the justice system as morally corrupt. I think the "compassion" thing is a smokescreen for using this man as a political pawn to earn a few brownie points. The West is keen to retain an alliance with Gadaffi and this man dying in prison could destroy all the bridges which have been built since Libya accepted culpability for the bombing. It just shows that the power of oil money counts for more than justice.
However, I've always felt that justice is not about revenge. It's about protecting society - and sending some guy home to die in his bed with his family will not harm society - it will protect us by showing what a compassionate and caring country we can be and it'll be cheaper too. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 12:37:01 PM | This case represents a very difficult and potentially disastrous decision-making process for the Scottish Justiciary viz the Rule of Law - applied not just here but across the globe.
The rule of law simply means that the law is above everyone and it applies to everyone. Whether governors or governed, rulers or ruled, no one is above the law, no one is exempted from the law, and no one can grant exemption to the application of the law.
Regardless of the detail of this case, however abhorrent, the law must prevail. A decision in this case could have profound effects on the future of our justice system, as precedence may be set. Do we want the "Lockerbie Decision" , if it came to this, laid down and debated in future cases?
Regardless of this man's case and the political and economic pressures applied from here and elsewhere we will be poorer if we allow a release. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 1:43:05 PM | He should never have gone to prison in the first place, as he couldn't possibly have either planted the bomb or triggered its explosion.
The Scottish jury was presented with somone who 'fit the bill' ie he was a Libyan, and found him guilty on that score alone.
Years later, Private Eye produced a magazine which used evidence presented at that trial, and even the most rabid anti-terrorist could see that the guy had no case to answer. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 1:49:26 PM | Private Eye proved this mans innocence beyond doubt years ago. The late great Paul Foot got his teeth stuck into this case and became friends with the man.He was used as a patsy.
Yet again forumites on PoF are screaming for the death penalty instead of the truth. | |
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| released on compassionate grounds? Lockerbie Bomber
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:13:43 PM |
He should never have gone to prison in the first place, as he couldn't possibly have either planted the bomb or triggered its explosion.
The Scottish jury was presented with somone who 'fit the bill' ie he was a Libyan, and found him guilty on that score alone.
Years later, Private Eye produced a magazine which used evidence presented at that trial, and even the most rabid anti-terrorist could see that the guy had no case to answer.
Quite. It's quite amazing what people believe when they haven't read or looked for any evidence to the contrary. We get drip fed crap from right wing newspapers and too few people actually look beyond the headlines and into the politics of it all.
The flight was bombed in retaliation for an Air Bus being shot down by the US Navy, the US Military court said the captain did nothing wrong even though the flight path records show the air bus was on it normal fight path.
I have every sympathy for the victims and the families of both flights, but to convict someone to satisfy the need to find someone guilty isn't good enough and it's a shame that more people can't understand that corruption exists at all levels of politics and the judiciary. | |
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