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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/23/2009 12:49:20 PM | Sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place, can't find a more appropriate one.
I am involved in court proceedings, basically on behalf of my two boys, ages 5 & 6 in an attempt to gain some contact for them with their sister, my step-daughter, Aged 10. Their sister had been taken away from their mother, my ex-wife by the Social Services about 7 months ago. The Social Services have not progressed contact since then. In court, the SS have proposed 3 times a year. My counter offer (if you can call it an offer) was once a month. The Judge sent us away to consider and return at the end of October with an agreement that would suit all parties.
I would like to know from people here if young children can suffer if only given contact of once every 17 weeks. I am hoping that such infrequency of contact would not be damaging to them. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/23/2009 3:24:57 PM | | I don't know that lack of visitation would cause them damage. I would hope where they were placed wouldn't. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/23/2009 4:04:39 PM | | I guess I am not understanding something. YOu mentioned that the boys were taken from their mother by SS. Why were they not placed with you as the biological parent? There is something missing here. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/23/2009 4:35:28 PM | My boys are with me and my ex had her daughter taken from her. She is the mother of all three.
Oh and by the way, the mother is only allowed to see her daughter once a year | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/23/2009 4:54:13 PM |
I would like to know from people here if young children can suffer if only given contact of once every 17 weeks. I am hoping that such infrequency of contact would not be damaging to them. I think how much they are damaged by this, if at all, is in your hands. I'm sure it's very hard for you to see these siblings separated, but your boys are going to follow your lead as far as how to feel about it.
You say the judge wants you and social services to work together to agree on visits. So do everything you can to work with social services between now and your October hearing to increase those visits. Document everything, and be ready to show the judge that you are trying. If social services won't work with you (because they're a slow bureaucracy, because they don't trust your motives, for whatever reason) then be ready to show the judge that too.
Is there any way you could try to get custody of your ex's daughter? Having the half-siblings together would be best, but social services would have to check you out pretty thoroughly, and you'd likely have a traumatized foster child on your hands there.
As for your own boys though, you can only do what you can do, which is accept gracefully the situation as it stands right now, while you work to change it. They're learning how to handle things by watching you. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/23/2009 6:06:52 PM | I grew up with half-siblings...which is what this girl is to your sons. Because mine were there from the time of my birth, I never considered them anything other than my full siblings. The bond was just as strong. Your boys deserve to have as much contact with her as possible.
I was a foster parent for ten years and the goal is to a place the child with biological family. If none of your wife's biological family is willing to take her daughter (or the girl's biological father's family), your boys would be next in line as her "biological family". They should not only have rights to visitation, you should have the right to parent her if you would choose to do so.
Don't give up your fight! The process is long and sometimes totally frustrating but worth it to know that, even if things don't go as you would have liked, you can tell your boys that you did all you could do to maintain their sibling bond. Kudos for your efforts!
One more thing. When you go to court in October, don't just ask for monthly visitation. Spell out in writing how that would happen. If you are willing to do transportation, say so. If you are talking overnight visits, say what accomodations you have for her while she's with you. It's one thing to go to court and say "I would like this" but it's so much better to say "I would like this, and this is how I would make that happen!" Good luck!! | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/23/2009 6:41:23 PM | There are 3 main things you need to do... Document, document, document. Contact Social services to try to work things out. Document when you called, who you talked to, what was said, EVERYTHING. If you leave a voicemail, Document that you left one, what you said, what time you left it, and what time it was returned. Then, the day of the court hearing (before you go of course) have it notarized. If the hearing is first thing in the morning, do it the day before. Have your lawyer look it over. Most lawyer's offices have a notary in the office, you can have them notarize it as well.
Above all, don't give up. My kids are half-siblings, but they have no clue about it. They need a relationship with their sister. If they don't, they could end up being angry with you or their mother. You don't want that, so do NOT give up!! | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 7:29:06 AM | hey there,
ive just read through your post and have a few things to mention to you....
first off, where have social services placed the children? are they with foster parents? grandparents? someone else?? if they are with another family member, is an interim care order/full care order in place?
because what is springing to my mind, is that you could petition for a care order, if you were happy to take the child on? social services prefer to have the child placed into a settled home, rather than in foster care which can change on a regular basis.
a care order would mean that you would be the legal guardian of the child until she reaches adulthood.
as i dont know much about your situation, some more info would be good. private message me if you want to talk about this some more. im not qualified in these matters, but i know a lot of people who have children, that are not biologically theirs but for whom they have custody, and i have been through the processes with them.
there are also payments available for guardians via the social services, to help maintain the child while they are in your care.
i would suggest you talk with a lawyer about an interim care order if you were to consider taking guardianship of the child, then usually cafcas get involved to determine what is in the best interests of the child.
like i said tho, i dont know the full facts so give us some more info!!! | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 9:21:21 AM | If the Bio father is out of the picture you should take some steps to get the half sibling back in your home, unless there are risk factors for the other members of the family. That little girl needs a soft place to land. Tough spot to be in.
MG | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 9:33:08 AM | well said mis-guided!
hopefully he gets back with some more info on the situation!!
Caro | |
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*Echo*
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Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 11 | |
| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 9:58:39 AM | OP, this is so strange that SS did not consider you an option unless she is with her family. Despite, you played a role of her father at some point and her two brothers are your children.
If she is in a foster home, I would do everything in my power to get her back with the family. Siblings are for life, and she and your sons should grow up together.
Good luck! | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 10:05:24 AM | hey there,
ive just read through your post and have a few things to mention to you....
first off, where have social services placed the children? are they with foster parents? grandparents? someone else?? if they are with another family member, is an interim care order/full care order in place?
because what is springing to my mind, is that you could petition for a care order, if you were happy to take the child on? social services prefer to have the child placed into a settled home, rather than in foster care which can change on a regular basis.
a care order would mean that you would be the legal guardian of the child until she reaches adulthood.
as i dont know much about your situation, some more info would be good. private message me if you want to talk about this some more. im not qualified in these matters, but i know a lot of people who have children, that are not biologically theirs but for whom they have custody, and i have been through the processes with them.
there are also payments available for guardians via the social services, to help maintain the child while they are in your care.
i would suggest you talk with a lawyer about an interim care order if you were to consider taking guardianship of the child, then usually cafcas get involved to determine what is in the best interests of the child.
like i said tho, i dont know the full facts so give us some more info!
I attempted to gain custody, but hearing snappets of the social services opinions and hearing the views of my Barrister, as she was allowed to have sight of all the reports including a psychological assessment of my step-daughter, I decided to withdraw my application for custody. I still don't know what happened to the girl, but I have been assured that long-term care with a foster carer would be best for her. It was a difficult decision that I had to make and one that I am still unconvinced was right. But that phase is now water-under-the-bridge.
It was suggested to me that it would not be in the interests of all concerned if the mother and her boyfriend knew where she was living or attending school and felt that I or indeed, her brothers might divulge. There was also a strong hint that should I choose to let the mother back into my life, the social services would consider taking my two boys into their protection too.
So "contact" is now the only way forwards.
Another, well for me at least, interesting thing, is that my step-daughter has "Not shown a desire to see me" If you bear in mind that I raised her from nappies, bathed her, clothed her, took her to nursery/school, sat in on damn Ballet lessons, read her stories and basically protected her from her mother's excesses for over 5 years whilst her biological father was nowhere to be seen. Someone alienated her against me?? That is pretty hard to bare for me, but I'm an adult and I'll live! My concern is for her and my boys. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 10:59:42 AM | it sounds like you have covered everything to be honest, and it also sounds like it was something unmentionable that the poor child has been put through by mum and her boyfriend. for the social services to not want her to be contacted by mother and boyfriend makes me believe there are some victim issues that would mean that the child would be seriously at risk if she were.
although you want what is in the best interests of your boys, and also the step daughter too, if that is what the social services have indicated, i dont think there is much you can do.
it must be heart breaking that she has not shown 'any desire' to see you, you were the only father she has ever known. i would try not to take it personally, as the poor girl has been through so much and probably has many other issues other than not wanting to see you - remember that she may well change her mind at a later date. moving through the care system for a child without any issues is traumatic enough, let alone for one that has possibly been through a traumatic incident.
what is the situation about written contact? can you correspond with her that way? if you can, even if she doesnt want to write back, it would be a good way to let her know that you care for her, and to keep her up to date with any news of her brothers, although im figuring that if the situation is as dire as you have said social services may only permit birthday and christmas cards.
my heart honestly goes out to you, a daddy is the guy who does all the things you mentioned and it sounds you did a whole lot more than her bio sperm donor!
stay strong xx | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 12:08:56 PM | Thanks for that, Caz2009, I appreciated it.
I have suggested some cards and picture swaps and the SS seem pretty ok with that so long as they can read the content first. Fair enough I thought. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 2:59:14 PM | | i think that because of the issues they have raised regarding the location of your step daughter, and the fact that it is imperative that she is not located my her birth mother it would be standard protocol not to mention anything relating to where you live, or for her to mention where she lives. it would take a bit of getting used to with what to write and such, but think of things longer term....... when she turns 18 (or at some point in her adult life) im sure she will want to contact the family that supported her during her childhood. it might be the only thread you have left, but one definitely worth holding on to! | |
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*Echo*
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Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 16 | |
| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 3:28:43 PM | | Try not to hold against her that she does not want to see you. Maybe she felt abandoned since she is among strangers now, maybe that comes from when you divorced her mother and did not take her with you, unlike your biological sons. You couldn't as her stepfather, but she most likely was as strongly attached to you as if you were her biological father. She may understand it, but still be angry. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 3:47:11 PM | It could be extremely painful for her to think about you. It might seem to her, seeing you would rip her heart out. You just never know exactly what she is thinking or feeling.
You do the best you can and make decisions based on what you feel is right. That is all you can do. Hopefully everything will and is working out for the best.
Good luck | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 4:24:37 PM | Hi there mate, to give my personal opinion, I'd have to know the details, and the care plan that I personally would set out for a child.
As I'm sure you are aware, there a many, many reasons that a child is seperated from a parent (s).
Willing to help whenever my friend. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 4:27:41 PM | Oh and btw, I work for them.
Personal disputes do not come into the care of the children, it is solely based on what is best for the child. I'm sure, if the Social were involved you would have been forwarded reports, attended meetings and gained any general correspondence?
If you need any questions answered .. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/24/2009 11:58:13 PM |
Personal disputes do not come into the care of the children, it is solely based on what is best for the child. I'm sure, if the Social were involved you would have been forwarded reports, attended meetings and gained any general correspondence?
There have been no personal disputes here. It is a simple matter of trying to progress contact for all three children. Had I have been shown more detail of the case I'm sure that the children would have seen each other sooner. The Social Services and the "Private" Family Court have both, in my honest opinion, acted to the detriment of the children. Remember, the girl has been taken away from her mother, for whatever reason and likewise from her brothers. My own boys themselves haven't a clue as to why their mum has "gone" and their sister doesn't see them. How can I give them answers?
The Social Services will only share information with the girl's family not with me. I basically have no legal right to the information.
For 7 months the SS must have had every opportunities to make contact with me to discuss contact for the children. They seemingly have prioritised matters elsewhere. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/25/2009 12:27:27 AM |
.......it is solely based on what is best for the child
Just noticed this.
Who is deciding "what's best for the child"? You refer to an "industry" that is given enormous resources to share out between Social Workers, Solicitors, Barristers, CAFFCASS guardians, Court Officials, Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Doctors, Foster Carers and Judges. It is that industry's best interest to continue the farcical "Family Court" system. When I was in the court, there was little old me, my Barrister, the Judge and 17 paid servants of the state. I received no assistance for childcare of my boys for the day, nor even given the £5.60 for the parking meter. I got the distinct feeling that I was a thorn-in-their-side and it would have been better all round if I didn't exist. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/25/2009 5:25:39 PM | Every jurisdiction is different, did they give any reason for trying to limit contact or why the child cannot be placed with you as I am assuming that you have custody of the younger children? In the U.S., the way these cases are handled not only varies by state guidelines, but in Texas, the local judge pretty much has carte blanche to do whatever they want. There is a judge in East Texas that is totally whacko and does nothing that is in the best interests of the children.
They refused to place my stepson's children where I live where there was ample room at the time for the 7 kids together or at least in two homes that would work so that the kids could spend more time together. The distance was given as a reason not to. Then because they had no room locally, they were sent to three different homes that were also two hours away. Contact with the parents was around every six weeks for two hours, and one of the children was an infant, has been kept in the system for over a year, and knows no one but the foster family that has taken care of him.
Once every 17 weeks would be detrimental to all three children imo but whether the judge will see it that way, no one can tell you. Generally the social services people are familiar with the way a particular judge tends to rule, have you not spoken with them?
OP, some courts allow the foster family latitude in deciding how much contact to allow. I imagine that probably rather than alienating you, your stepdaughter likely felt abandoned (I'm sure you had no choice or control but just the way she is probably seeing what has happened to her since you split) and that may be why she is currently indicating that she doesn't want contact with you. Sorry, that has to hurt.
Your reposts make it clear why you can't take her, at least at this time. What you might ask for is that the foster family can monitor how the visits go and that perhaps if she is doing well with them the frequency can be increased at their discretion. I believe you could ask for this even if the judge has technically decided what to do. I know it is hard on the foster families when the courts limit the contact so much, hard for them to watch what the children are going through and there isn't always a logical reason for things. Your case was obviously complicated by bio mom's potential to create problems at any point down the line. | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 8/25/2009 11:27:16 PM | Our system here in the UK is particularly frustrating as information is withheld on the basis that the release of information may not be "in the best interests of the child". This is a clever emotive attempt to deter prying eyes and one that is held in almost religious fervour by the state. It gives the social service, the judges etc etc. carte blanche to do as they please. As of yet, I have been given no information as to why my step-daughter was placed into care and I am merely best-guessing that the reasons were sound. Granted, I am aware of my ex's propensity for abusing alcohol and her enjoyment of the good life! I am also aware that at the time of the "snatching" of the girl, she was being looked after by her maternal grandfather, who returned from work to collect her at school only to be told that the social services had effectively kidnapped his grandchild. I know this man to be a good person, albeit a tad elderly at 56 to be caring for a pre-adolescent female.  He is devastated and like me isn't being told of the reasons why the state has decided to step-in. In my honest opinion, he would be an eminently suitable person to be given custody, so long as he could guarantee to survive for the next 8 years !!!
But, as I said previously, there is a system here in the uk that allows for the state to secretly harvest it's young defenseless citizens and forcibly place them to it's financial advantage. There is a separation between the judiciary and the state enshrined in legislation, however, underpinning that separation I would not be surprised to learn that deals were struck to ensure continuing and mutually beneficial situations. Family Court being just one example.
Recently here in the UK, there have been occasions where the Social Services have maintained abusive relationships between partners, obviously in the "best interest of the children". ultimately resulting in horrific deaths for often small children. Rather than face the consequences of being complicit in the deaths of the children, the Social Services attempt to hide behind the Family Court's veil of secrecy. I guess that some children don't make it to the harvesting stage!! | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 10/23/2009 12:14:13 AM | You might try this.
See if you can get the three times a year initially but would they offer to do a streaming web cam/chat on whatever scale or visitation schedule you or they will agree upon. It is becoming more popular as a sign of the times and as technology advances. It is not the same thing as being there but it is better then nothing at least in the interim.
Suffer....yeah they forget the other party completely after awhile and don't want to be botherred. Eventually the grass is greener and the "They don't care or want me anymore mindset surfaces"
I will add the Judge is your best hope for allowing this. It will really positively show and reflect on your credibility.
Good luck | |
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| Contact for Children
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:49:37 AM | | You say she was taken by SS, ok. So I assume she is in foster care. Can't you try to get custody of her? I got custody of my 13 year old , the judge decided being with me and her brothers and sister was a better place for her than foster care. Just a though but I don't know if you want that responcibility on top of you boys, but it's a thought. Petion the court for custody. | |
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