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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 7:41:20 AM | We all may have different opinions of this. Looking for some opinions here.
Recently I was in contact with someone who basically stated: that if she were to correspond with someone on here without a photo for awhile. Then telephoned. Found after a while, they liked each other a lot. Cared for the way their minds worked, their souls felt. Had commonalities. Then arranged a meeting sight unseen. When met she found the guy was 400 lbs and had bad teeth. She would be repulsed and never want the guy.
She feels that is not shallow. I feel that is exactly what shallow is.
Now, I have spoken to someone else on here who is bright and I respect their opinion. They feel that is acceptable as the repulsed one is displeased with the lack of health care and hygiene the overweight bad toothed individual practiced.
I feel that may be a substantial reason but is more rationalization applied.
My feeling is we seek the soul, the mind and the heart. If one finds that online and yet judges by the body then they are shallow.
Do they have the right to be shallow? YES. does it mean they are not shallow? NO
BTW I am not 400lbs with bad teeth as those who have met me can attest to. This was a hypothetical situation only. But the conversation was real.
Let the opinions begin... | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 7:53:22 AM | my 2 cents
it does not matter if your mind clicks or soul clicks or what ever else click, if you are not attracted to the person and you can not see your self kissing that person it will never work.
you could end up as very good friends,but thats about it.
at my age i would never ever meet someone i dont know what they look like.
fist im not a child and im not going to guess who is the person in the coffee shop im meeting.
second.....if you talk to someone for an extended period or time , like it or not, you will develop some kind of feelings.....than if you are not attracted it is a really big dissapointment.
third..if the other party have a pic up it is just not fair. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:02:27 AM | IMHO... we are ALL SHALLOW deep down inside...
But if the attraction to the other person is not there... there can be no relationship... at least not a relationship of the heart...
I would NEVER go meet someone I haven't already at least seen a picture of... and even then... the ONE person I met from here...after almost 2 months of corresponding... did NOT tell the whole truth in their profile...and it was a big turnoff!!!
Yes, call me shallow... at least I'm honest...  | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:28:45 AM | It is NOT shallow to want to have physical attraction and chemistry with someone. Absolutely not.
Looks and attraction matter for 99% of the population I'd say. You see those rare, "good for you! (but I damn sure wouldn't )" stories on talk shows with a beautiful person meeting and falling in love with someone that almost everyone else would find physically repulsive. Meanwhile, most everybody in sight wouldn't even think about it.
If wanting a nice (enough) package to look at is shallow, then I guess I'm just wading in the pool and not diving in then. I like feeling my blood get hot when I look at someone. I like seeing her leave the room we're in and watching every step.
It's not shallow. It's normal. I think shallow is ONLY looking at the surface without caring about what's inside at all. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:40:52 AM | First, I will not talk to anyone without pictures. Yes, plural. I need to see several and they need to include at least one full body shot so I have an idea of what they look like.
Secondly, I like to have one phone conversation shortly after they email me on here. Usually within a few days. (big fan of texting as this email stuff, is garbage IMO).
Third, I like to meet a day or 2 after the phone conversation for a drink. Casual, nothing expensive with too much planning involved. We go, sit at the bar, chat, see if there is a physical attraction...if not, then movin on...I have no problem staying friends if he has qualities I like and things in common.
I am not one to waste time getting to know someone without seeing them. You need to have a physical attraction to the person or it will not work!
I do not consider this shallow. I know what I like and what I don't like.
400 pounds and bad teeth...delete... | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:49:44 AM | | Shallow is when you are choosing someone because of what other people think versus what you think. If you aren't attracted to someone with bad teeth or someone who is overweight, those aren't your attraction switches. However, if you find yourself attracted to someone and they are overweight, but you refuse to date them because you are concerned with what other people will think about you, then that is shallow. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 9:17:01 AM | throwit2me makes a good point.
Myself, I think it would be shallow if she wouldn't be friends with him because of his appearance.
But there's nothing shallow about not wanting to date someone who actively turns you off physically. Physical repulsion is not something one can pretend isn't there when it is - nor can it be overcome with the power of reason. Just like attraction, you feel it or you don't. It is unrelated to relative personal depth.
How 'bout the other side. Since we're positing that they have this great connection emotionally and mentally, would it be shallow of him if he wouldn't be friends because she didn't want to date him? | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 9:17:23 AM | Come sirthinkalot, I do not care for shallow people also, to me looks, should not be as important as the inside, but your friend is right. Even that should have a limit. Too me shallow is being overly indulgent or insentitive about what should be trivial. Size to point of being overweight, she has reasoned out to be unhealthy.
Whereas shallowness is when you get right down to it, It is not very important anyway.
Health and Hygiene are important points, I believe by most people standards.
To a point these things maybe looked at by most of the public as sane, humane, natural, ///or maybe it should be inmaterial to what is being considered.
Everyone might scrutinize to a point, because we all have what we view as within normal limits. It is when you take the very last thing one might consider and put it first. Overly indulgent about frivilous things. You have no reason other than prejudice and you tend to catagorize without ryhme or reason. Shallowness is more if you don't have a reason, just feel that way because ...... I know someone out there can explain it better. I quit!  | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 9:17:53 AM | Shallow is the concept of letting your "imagination" rule your common sense.......
Who is their right mind would buy a car or home site unseen, just because the description sounds enticing, and the agent makes it sound awesome?
I am one to make imagination become reality as soon as I can, so I do not just sit here letting it become a computer connection, unless we are going to be just friends, or the distance is to far to have anything else.
If initially interested, I am one to move to private email, messenger, phone, and then set the meet and greet with nothing but good expectations. Once there, and the pictures match the person, the conversation across from each other matches what we had on the computer, and the attraction moves from imagination to real, I am good to go.
If not, I am one to say thank you but no thank you, or how about being friends and helping each other in other ways.
Just my opinion..........   | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 9:54:52 AM |
My feeling is we seek the soul, the mind and the heart. If one finds that online and yet judges by the body then they are shallow.
Do they have the right to be shallow? YES. does it mean they are not shallow? NO Let the opinions begin...
My opinion is that you are an idiot that's just miffed because someone you were attracted to rejected you.
You do understand people are more than "souls" and minds? You do understand people have a corporeal shape for a reason? You do understand people have senses and an autonomic nervous system for a reason? That mating is one of the many reasons?
So your thought
My feeling is we seek the soul, the mind and the heart.
Is pretty idiotic. If that were true the majority of the population would be going after Stephen Hawking, or there would have been massive population suicides when Mother Theresa and Ghandi died.
You may tell yourself that is what you seek. But how many 400 lb women with bad teeth have you gone out with? You are here, so you are probably single. Can you prove that the last relationship with a 400 lb bad tooth woman didn't end due to being shallow?
Have you ever visited senior citizen centers to pick up on women? I mean the majority are single, and they are all in one place. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. And their minds and souls have a lot of growth experience!
Free meatloaf on Tuesdays too!
If you haven't done any of the preceding, doesn't that mean you are shallow by your logic?
So IMO the woman in the OP wasn't shallow. She took the time to pretend to get to know you (as that is what online email and phone are to me) and that just wasn't enough to overcome your level of physical attractiveness.
For all I know she had misgivings or didn't want to ever meet you in the first place, but was a pic collector, so it was all a game to her.
For all I know she rejected you for what you said in your last email with the picture, but she knew rejecting you for your looks would make sure you never contacted her again and she's sighing a sigh of relief that she avoided a stalker bullet.
Shallow would have been not wanting to talk to you at all, until she saw what you looked like. Shallow may have been her saying "you better be cute or I'm wasting my time" before each conversation.
Shallow would be only conversing with you to kill time so she could get your picture but she never participated in the conversation.
Shallow would be to see what you look like, and then judged compatibility or who you are as a person based on the clothes or car in the pictures.
Shallow would be refusing to talk to you until she saw what you look like, and think how her friends and family would see you, and reject you for that reason.
Shallow would be you getting into a relationship and after 4 years know absolutely nothing about you, but was all vocal about who you should be, how you should dress, how you should comport yourself, and how you could make her happy.
Shallow is only focusing on the surface, without any plumbing of depth at all. Placing no importance on anything below the surface.
Because someone weighs the depth with the surface doesn't mean they are shallow, if they explored the depth and simply found it wasn't enough to overcome the surface.
But since there aren't any of the actual conversations, there is no way to tell if she is shallow.
Just because she doesn't find you attractive, doesn't automatically mean she's only looking for someone for the sole reason of what they look like.
So my real opinion is: How did this make it past the troll post pity vote? | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:08:26 AM | I think that when we get to know someone "virtually" we carry default assumptions about which we are unaware until we meet someone "in the flesh." So, if I were to correspond and then speak with someone who appeared intelligent, thoughtful, self-aware, empathetic, etc., I might never get into a discussion about physical health, hygiene, dental care, etc., because I would assume that one set of positive characteristics (a value judgment of mine) would of course be associated with another set of positive characteristics (another value judgment).
I don't apologize for ranking "demonstrated capacity for effective self-care" as an essential requirement for someone with whom I would hope to have a lifetime relationship of decades (even at my age). And, I am in such a relationship.
I mean, of course sh*t happens, but we do have some control over the odds.
Is that superficial? | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:12:20 AM | To DemonDingleBerry
It is a shame you did not read my post and have expressed opinions that some may see as "shallow" .
I was not looking for a definition of shallow in the dictionary sense. That may be perceived as: : penetrating only the easily or quickly perceived b : lacking in depth of knowledge, thought, or feeling
Your response does that as you assume and did not pay attention to my post.
1) No one rejected me. This person and I were in only early stages of conversation. No "attraction" as yet was present.
2) I walk th walk not talk the talk as many others do. I have been with women that you might not have found attractive, That is a shame as you have no idea what you have missed. I have been fortunate enough to not be "blinded" by the quick and prejudicial assumptions made upon immediate ocular results.
3) It was never stated, you wrongly assume, she found me unattractive. This was a discussion of opinions on shallowness. I did not realize that one such as you would expose themselves as being so shallow in such a public way. This you have accomplished with your jump to conclusions, assumptions and derogatory remarks.
4) Why would you, wrongly, assume I am of the build and description aforementioned?
Fortunately many of us are considerate of people such as yourself and will overlook your shortcomings, hoping you will grow and develop.
Kindly look to other posts for your flaming. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:12:39 AM | Thank you demondingleberry for describing perfectly what "shallow" is. 
I am sick to death of these boo hoo threads on physical attraction being shallow. Jeez. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:13:59 AM | | It's allowing your loins to dictate as much as your brain who you are attracted to. Not always a bad thing. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:11:46 AM |
My feeling is we seek the soul, the mind and the heart.
I disagree that a desire to be attracted to one’s mate bears NO IMPORTANCE whatsoever. It would be superficial if one seeks and is concerned ONLY with physical appearance. IMO, it is healthy and normal to desire a life mate with whom you have compatibility of mind, soul, heart, AND BODY. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:17:34 AM | | I consider weighing 400 pounds an anomaly. If he didn't mention his weight to her prior, then he would not have been honest about who he is. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:27:25 AM | | OP, separate the fact from the fiction. As for what I, a female, do on here, I will accept mail without pics posted but if they don't send them I ask for them soon. Physical is a part of it and only one part of many. But if that part is missing, then no date. I've learned the hard way about not emailing too long before a call and not waiting too long to meet if he's local. Nothing good to tell about those situations Nothing good ever came of a man I emailed with if he didn't have a pic posted either, so I mostly don't even look at such profiles on my page. Not worth my time. If he wants to email, then he soon would have to send one. And no, I do not give out my phone number just so he can text me a pic on his phone. I just say no. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:28:21 AM | Wow. I guess it is near impossible to filter out the quick to judge, lack of reasoning individuals from the rest of us.
Who decided this was a "boo hoo" or "self pity" thread.
If I questionn of a police officer beating a civilian - does that mean I am a civilian who was beaten by an officer?
If I questionn of a person using prejudicial remarks toward someone of a particular race - should people assume I am of that race?
If I ask of someones shallowness of people who are overweight - should people assume I am overweight?
If I state the conversation made - does that mean someone was rejected?
Some of these prejudicial posts and comments are indicative of the exact conditions in shallowness that prevails on these sites. This is all part of being shallow.
Keep to the issue discussed.
For all those who feel it is the initial appearance that determines a possible relationship. May it never happen to you that your partner eventually gets out of shape, has a disfiguring accident or illness. Incurs a health condition that damages their teeth. For surely you would abandon them immediately. Should it happen to you be prepared to be alone from thereon for why would anyone, who is not shallow, wnat to spend the time and energy to educate you on the depth of a person.
May the shallow, quick to judge, people of the world UNITE. Yes unite, get together and go be with yourselves. You are deserving of each other. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:49:35 AM | It's NOT shallow, when we are all pretty much stuck with what our preferences are. All these people who say they don't have any kinds of preferences for what they are attracted to are LYING, plain and simple. The whole "Looks don't matter" mantra is only true to the one who is not being accepted because of their looks.
There is no way I will ever believe anyone who says that they are not attracted/UNattracted to certain traits in the opposite (or same, as the case may be) sex.
I don't know how anyone can go on to have a romantic, life long relationship with someone they are not physically attracted to.
And I went on one date "sight unseen" several years ago, and would never do that again. If someone doesn't let you see them before the date, there's a reason for it. And hiding whatever that reason is, before the first date, IMO is deceptive and it wastes everybody's time. Because if the physical chemistry isn't there along with all the rest, it's not going to happen. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:55:42 AM |
May it never happen to you that your partner eventually gets out of shape, has a disfiguring accident or illness. Incurs a health condition that damages their teeth. For surely you would abandon them immediately.
The example you sited in the original post is not about dumping an ESTABLISHED partner. It is about a romantic “getting to know you” process that is completely VOID of any impartation or disclosure of physical appearance. I still maintain my original position, that when seeking a mate, it is HEALTHY and NORMAL to want to find each other mutually attractive. However, I will add that I think it is ABNORMAL and SUSPECT to NOT disclose this information BEFORE meeting. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 12:01:37 PM | I am very opened minded toward all kinds of people.
My problem is that Mr. Winkie only responds to some women. Since he is in charge of my twig and berries, it doesn't really matter what I think!  | |
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boo372
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Joined: 7/22/2009
Msg: 22 | |
| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 12:12:48 PM | people like who they like, a lot of people really dont go for a 400 pound man or women with bad teeth, least not at first glance. Now some might not really care about that. Some do, as that wouldnt be there type. Just because its not there type doesnt make them shallow. Makes them real! | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 12:17:18 PM | I am attracted to a wide range of types of men, not just what Hollywood shows to me. But if a man can't show himself so that I can see if he's in my range of what I think is attractive, then he's setting himself up for rejection the minute I do. That's why I bother to post several pics of different type shots. No need to waste my time and energy if he's looking for something I am not, even if his range is wider than Hollywood only. No problem for me to let him see what I am or am not.
If a person has some serious disability, I think they should let potential dates know quickly. Some people may not be bothered by it, but it should not be hidden info. I had a guy who had convinced me that he worked out and ran in the heat here. When I met him, he couldn't even really walk with me across the park. I didn't even bother to get into it with him on why he didn't disclose it because I figure he knew he should have told it. I just told him that sorry we are not a match and went on and enjoyed the evening in the park without him. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 12:34:10 PM | "I think it is ABNORMAL and SUSPECT to NOT disclose a person is shallow and is fist and foremost concerned with looks rather than integrity, intelligence, feelings, moraes and values BEFORE meeting."
BTW this thread was not about a photo first scenario but that concept has apparently been lost
To those who feel the GREAT importance of a photo first. To those who believe that not showing a photo means you have something to hide.
Try this
1) Post your phone number, SS number, DOB and other private information. Why not? Oh, you must be deceitful and are cheating on someone.
2) Take real, high resolution photos of yourself to post.
3) I'll create a website just for you. It will not allow more than one email. No chat. Just a collection of photos. In the emails you will be limited to no more than ten words so you cannot get to find out what someone is like.
In said website we will rate you on your looks. this will be discussed openly in the forums.
A) In said website a test will be required. This test will determine if your IQ is over a certain level.
B) If your ability to understand information, extrapolate data, correlate information and draw to a reasonable conclusion is of sufficient abilities.
C) If you take time to analyze information and have the ability to see with different perspectives
If you are deemed to have the aforementioned qualities of A, B & C a warnings will be sent to you not to enter said website as you would not be comfortable with those that fail said test and infect said site. | |
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| What is shallow?
Posted: 8/28/2009 12:40:42 PM |
It is a shame you did not read my post and have expressed opinions that some may see as "shallow" .
You are assuming I didn't read your post correctly. You seem to be assuming I didn't interpret your post as to how I wanted to interpret it for my own reasons.
I was not looking for a definition of shallow in the dictionary sense.
How can you have a discussion, agreement, debate, or understanding of an opinion without defining terms?
I defined mine to back up my opinion.
Your response does that as you assume and did not pay attention to my post.
You are assuming I didn't. You are also assuming your post was worth paying much attention to. You also seem to be assuming I didn't have a more meaningful purpose to my post that is relevant to me.
1) No one rejected me. This person and I were in only early stages of conversation. No "attraction" as yet was present.
I have no way of knowing whether no one rejected you. I do know you were in a stage of communication with someone. Seems to be two women. And rather than talk to them, or be content with their conversations, you came to the forums with the conversation.
Attraction is present whether you see someone or not. You can be attracted to words. That is why there are so many different authors. Some say the same thing, in different ways, but the people that are "fans" will fight to defend the "rightness" of their specific author. Look at Lord of the Rings vs Star Wars fans.
2) I walk th walk not talk the talk as many others do. I have been with women that you might not have found attractive, That is a shame as you have no idea what you have missed. I have been fortunate enough to not be "blinded" by the quick and prejudicial assumptions made upon immediate ocular results.
I have absolutely no way to measure the veracity of that statement.
3) It was never stated, you wrongly assume, she found me unattractive. This was a discussion of opinions on shallowness. I did not realize that one such as you would expose themselves as being so shallow in such a public way. This you have accomplished with your jump to conclusions, assumptions and derogatory remarks.
Can you call me absolutely shallow in my life for the way I occasionally approach my entertainment? Can someone be absolutely shallow if they seek shallow entertainment?
If the women in the OP had not found you unattractive, would you be here? Or would you be with one of them having other deeper discussions?
4) Why would you, wrongly, assume I am of the build and description aforementioned?
Because there doesn't seem to be a point in posting an OP to the forum unless there is some ambivalence in self perception.
There seems to be absolutely no point in posting a meaningful discussion on a social relationship site when there are professional and intellectual sites more suited.
There seems to be no point in posting and OP to the forums if you are really here to date, as your time would be spent in trying to date.
And if you were talking to two women, with no picture, discussing how they feel about being shallow, that means you are trying to determine if they are shallow before seeing you, or trying to figure out how they see you in terms of attraction after seeing your picture as a means of controlling the conversation to determine how they feel about looks because you are so worried about how they perceive you.
So, you are either using forum readers to validate your ego.
Or you control and manipulate conversations with people to determine how they see you.
All of which is....shallow.
Fortunately many of us are considerate of people such as yourself and will overlook your shortcomings, hoping you will grow and develop.
I hope I grow and develop too. I need feedback to do that. So I do appreciate your response to my post. As it does point some things out that I can consider.
Kindly look to other posts for your flaming.
No way for you to believe me, but my intentions were never to flame. Just post my opinion. As I usually don't go back and read responses after I post. I really don't care if someone responds, or simply judges and ignores, as it is just my opinion on the internet and has absolutely no value or authority except what you, or whomever reads it, puts in it.
Of course all of this could have been emailed, but you chose to put it in the forums. | |
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