|
|
|
|
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 11:14:16 AM | After reading these forums for entirely too long, I have noticed that there are quite few American posters on here that feel that their Government is full of liars and shouldnt be trusted, example: Healthcare, and point out the smallest little thing as proof that they cant be trusted to look out for their citizens or make the right decisions where people's lives are concerned.
BUT when the Government tells the American people that invading a sovereign country needs to happen, and that people need to be interrogated and held in secret prisons without the benefit of a trial, constantly refer to the threat of terrorists to the level that is frankly almost absurd and other associated actions, the same people that question the government will not question those actions. In fact they almost rabidly support these actions by the same people that last week were apparently way too stupid and incompetent to run a lemonade stand.
Can someone please explain this to me? If the same people that you believe are competent enough to justify wars, the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and innocent civillians, and spending trillions of dollars on wars, why is it that they are not capable of dealing with anything else? | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 11:19:41 AM |
Can someone please explain this to me?
The rightwing has no ideas, no solutions, and no moral center. The only principle they adhere to is short-term self-interest.
When it's convenient for them to trust the govt, they trust the govt. When it's convenient for them to distrust the govt, they distrust the govt. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 11:33:18 AM | I don't trust the government. They are spending our Social Security and pensions like there is no tomorrow, we are in a war that should have never happened cause the government has its nose in everyone else's business.
They don't even want to take care of our own people. People come here for free healthcare and taxpayers are footing the bill for that and to board some foreigner in a fancy hotel. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 11:41:53 AM | It's said that, when the barbarians were storming the gates of Rome, the populace couldn't be bothered because they were enjoying the games in the coliseum.
That's the only parallel between America and ancient Rome that ever made sense to me.
What would our country look like today if people paid as much attention to politics as we do to football ?
We Americans are a stupid people.
We love and admire those who stab us in the back every day.
We hate those people who only want us to leave them alone. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 12:41:15 PM |
Can someone please explain this to me? If the same people that you believe are competent enough to justify wars, the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and innocent civillians, and spending trillions of dollars on wars, why is it that they are not capable of dealing with anything else?
Simple. because your premise is flawed. This is a classic sheeple point of view. They aren't "the same people" at all, or have you not been paying attention? How many changes of administration have you lived through?
You're also comparing a relatively short-term, one shot event with a permanent fundamental policy change that will affect each and every person not for 10 years, but for LIFE. Yet you see one as no different than the other. When a new administration assumes control they usually flush the toilet as far as heads of departments go - even much of the White House staff. Entire policies are turned inside out and a lot of what was working is scrapped while a lot of never-before-tested is put in its place.
Please don't become a shepherd because the wolves in sheep's clothing will have your entire flock before you ever start to suspect something. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 12:58:00 PM | | ^^^^^^^^^^So you are saying that if Bush Jr. had suggested Universal Health care all of his supporters would have hopped on board? Because they had no problem trusting his government when he invaded Iraq so if they trusted them enough to start a war and send their children to die for the good of the country, they would have trusted that the same government would also be able to take care of health care or education? | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 1:12:34 PM | Lets summarize a few of the things I've noticed (bear in mind my biases mean I'm going to pick on the right). And these ARE the same people who complain when it's a Democrat, but have no problem with the same or worse from a Republican:
Clinton inhaling is scandalous. Bush packing his nose with Peruvian marching powder is youthful indiscretion.
Criticizing a war or the way it's conducted is treasonous. Outing an undercover operation looking for loose nukes is perfectly fine.
You're an America hater if you criticized Bush - a patriot if you criticize Obama.
Documented electoral fraud in 2004 isn't worth noting. A voter drive having ineligible names (which ALL of them do) is an insidious plot.
If Bush wants to know what books you're taking out of the library or listen in on phone conversations - hey, if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about. If Obama wants to know who's making threats against the nation it's an insidious violation of privacy.
Lowering taxes to artificial levels leading to 8 straight deficits; not even counting the war costs in the budget. That's good for the economy. Inheriting a mess and not turning it around in 100 days is socialistic incompetence.
You know, I could go on. But frankly I could be at this all day and still not scratch the surface. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 3:28:47 PM |
So you are saying that if Bush Jr. had suggested Universal Health care all of his supporters would have hopped on board? Because they had no problem trusting his government when he invaded Iraq so if they trusted them enough to start a war and send their children to die for the good of the country, they would have trusted that the same government would also be able to take care of health care or education?
??? Where do you in any conceivable form see me saying any of that??? I protested Bush getting us into Iraq more than ANYONE I know. At the time I was seen as an unpatriotic turncoat. And now, years later, every single one of my predictions on Iraq have come true. And let's not forget that MOST of the Democrat contingent "sheepishly" went along for the ride and signed on all of Bush's dotted lines when it came both to Iraq as well as the UN-Patriot Act. These were moves that were carried out by party politicians, despite warnings from within their constituencies that it was not the right way to go.
I highly doubt Bush would have had a chance passing any sort of Universal Health Care. What I call the Middle Majority would have taken him to task for it, as well as their supposed representatives.
Again, as good sheeple often do, your argument comes from a mindset of polarization - black and white, us versus them, because it makes moot any necessity for rational, logical thought and analysis, but pulls strictly from emotion and party branding. No, I would have preferred Bush put the kibosh on the factors that were building the Clinton Housing Bubble from the start of his (Bush's) administration as a priority over ANYTHING else he ever did. When he failed to do that, it quickly became obvious he was little more than another knob, beholden only to his cult-like Neo-Con-ism. Failing to recognize and undo what Clinton had put into place was Bush's greatest economic failings as a President, but far from his only one. The man was in office 7 years and 6 months too long.
Lets summarize a few of the things I've noticed (bear in mind my biases mean I'm going to pick on the right). And these ARE the same people who complain when it's a Democrat, but have no problem with the same or worse from a Republican: (blah-blah-blah)
Once again, a very nicely-narrowed, no - myopic and polarized view of things. Assuming all who are not PRO-Democrat, must be pro-NeoCon and ultra-Republican. You are missing about 60% of the rest of the population with such broad brush strokes. But you aren't alone...you have plenty of myopic company on both sides of your little demarcation line. Over the next few elections, I think you will see how the Middle Majority really feels about that - and we won't forget all that we've seen and been called, and been portrayed to be - by both ends.
You think Bush was well-loved by non-Democrats? That will be one of your downfalls.
Once more, black and white are at opposite ends of the opinion spectrum and it has obscured your clear view of things. You have managed to alienate ALL the various shades of gray in-between. But the views, attitudes and actions of those in the Democratic party have pushed me firmly away from anything "Democrat" for a long, long, long time.
Wise politicians on both sides of the broken political machine are paying [u]very close attention to likely-voter polls[/u] and they are beginning to get scared of what those polls are saying loud and clear. That includes Obama, who has now changed his tune [u]again[/u] with the latest announcement that a public option will NOT be a stiff requirement in any upcoming health reform bill. The man's convictions are like a dying fish on a dry deck - flipping first one way, then flopping the other. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 4:23:53 PM | Economic hard times, in conjunction with the American sense of entitlement have proven too much for any administration to satisfy.
You can't make all the people happy all the time. Simple as that. It doesn't matter what anyone in office does, someone is going to thnk it is the wrong move. Therefore, with many politicians, it is "full steam ahead" and they allow history to judge them.
America falls into a lot of wars. They believe that without helping out the populance of a country that is under a harsh regime, they will have to face them united. Far better to handle one small community, rather than face a continent full of them!
If they'd of had a chance at taking China out, they would have! Same with Russia.
Unfortunately, they won, the Americans lost. Loss of the "freedoms" and laws violated, etc, etc. American politicians, in a knee-jerk reaction fell right into treating their own citizens and others, the same as some third world nations treat their citizens.
America used to be a country that could be "looked up to", as fra as many world citizens were concerned...but they fell off the track. It doesn't matter where or when they did...they just did.
Unfortunatly, they have set the example for the world, which has quickly taken up the American tune. Some faster than others.
Here in Canada, we have our share of problems. The third world treatment of citizens, an uncaring gov't, and a blaise body of citizens that figure if things in their neck of the woods are tolerable, then everything is just fine!
Hopefully we will get an election called this fall.... | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 4:47:08 PM | I realate to Smartones last post. First time I voted was for Clinton(first term), voted for Bush Jr.(first term), and voted for Republican this last time because I was finished with the Clintons and didn't really know anything about Obama and this change crap he was spueing out made me skin crawl. Voted for noone twice. Really wasn't too fond of McCain but there was no chance of an Independent winning and he had a proven service to our country so he got my vote. I trust none of our elected officials, most every one is bought off in some way.
How could we not see the dot com failure coming(people were investing in lies), the housing market(Loans for all), the Enrons and Investment scams? Automobiles, cell pones, computers etc. all designed with short lives. How do we end up in a war with no good game plan until its too late to get out, why do the big failing companies get bailed out but not the small ones? Representatives on both sides of the line are responsible for these mistakes. Every idiot that makes terrible decissions is qualified for some sort of tax discount or special break, but the responsible people pay for it. I'm a pro Union guy, but they are completely out of control, I work with them every day.
The govt. is failing us in my opinion, has been for quite some time. Anything they do creates a paper trail ten miles long with fees and unbalanced practices, so much that very little good is acomplished in the end. Right down to the State level nothing that happens is really justifiable. I wanted to open my own company but with all the rules and regs it just wasn't worth it. There is so much waste and mismanagement its disgusting. Theres all this finger pointing at the presidents, but they are only tools for the rest of the idiots to blame. We cant even punish criminals like we should, how stupid is that. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 5:00:57 PM | There are two major political parties. That's like two sports teams playing a game. Each side wants to win. The way to win is to get votes. The way to get people to join your team and vote for your candidate is to invite them to use your lies. People have no idea what is going on but they want to feel as if they have some kind of control to make good things happen and to prevent bad things from happening. So the lies are handy for that. People listen to each political party say its lies. Upon hearing the lies they pick which one to use for thinking that by supporting that party life will be better not worse.
Sometimes there are topics that the political parties can't polarize because there is only one side. One of those is the question of whether people in the US like being attacked. Nearly all of them don't like it at all. After the attack in New York, the one opinion shared by almost everyone was that something must be done. The party in power at the time was not going to get any argument from the secondary party. Not when public opinion was already formed in favor of, doing something. From that point, because he's the leader, whatever something the President wanted to do was going to be the something that everyone wanted to be done, because it qualified as doing something.
When you think of what the US people do, remember they are divided by political party lie affiliation. Just about less than half the people don't identify with either of the two major parties, but will choose on a case by case basis which of the lies to support that day.
Politics is the art of shaping opinions in favor of voting a certain way. The voters typically know nothing except for what is presented to them by the political parties, and of that, they understand only how it makes them feel emotionally responding to the metaphors and slogans. There's not much in the way of informed critical thinking going on among the ranks of voters. This makes it very easy to have any mishmash of contradictory and irrational opinions as you enjoy.
The distrust of government is done without benefit of a rational basis. It's enough to feel like the other team is against you, or that they all lie anyway. For people who would rather believe there is a side to be on that is better than the other side, the lying of the home team is accepted as necessary for winning power over the enemy team. Not all lies are created equal. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/3/2009 8:18:38 PM | After reading these forums for entirely too long, I have noticed that there are quite few American posters on here that feel that their Government is full of liars and shouldnt be trusted, example: Healthcare, and point out the smallest little thing as proof that they cant be trusted to look out for their citizens or make the right decisions where people's lives are concerned.
BUT when the Government tells the American people that invading a sovereign country needs to happen, and that people need to be interrogated and held in secret prisons without the benefit of a trial, constantly refer to the threat of terrorists to the level that is frankly almost absurd and other associated actions, the same people that question the government will not question those actions. In fact they almost rabidly support these actions by the same people that last week were apparently way too stupid and incompetent to run a lemonade stand.
Can someone please explain this to me? If the same people that you believe are competent enough to justify wars, the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and innocent civillians, and spending trillions of dollars on wars, why is it that they are not capable of dealing with anything else?
We as people don't trust the government for many reasons. Lots of Americans are actually immigrants, and they learned from their homecountry, or from stories of their parents, just what a government can do to a people.
Others don't trust the government because--suprise--the government does not trust us, so why trust them?
Now why do we want to invade a country? Because people are run through emotions, which the media is a master of manipulating. Some lefties are sure to post up about how horrid horrid corporations etc. are to blame, but last I checked, the 90%+ approval for the beginning of this "War on Terror" could not have come from just one political leaning. Both the lefties and the righties and everyone in between are responsible for that one. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 4:27:40 AM | | Only a naive fool trusts a government. They're nothing puppets, stringpulled by others. They're following an agenda and it doesn't matter who's president. Presidents aren't even elected, but SELECTED. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 5:50:22 AM |
Can someone please explain this to me? If the same people that you believe are competent enough to justify wars, the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and innocent civillians, and spending trillions of dollars on wars, why is it that they are not capable of dealing with anything else?
It really has nothing to do with a distrust of the government and has everything to do with keeping the wealthy, wealthy and opposition to everything Obama. The wealthy have tapped into a segment of the population who are easily fooled and who can be manipulated to advocate for an agenda that is against their own best interests. Many who are fooled are often uneducated and spend to much time listing to talk radio. Then there are those who will always oppose Obama for no reason other than the fact that he is (part) black. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 6:40:07 AM | | wow! Another America bashing thread in the guise of a Stupid question.............obviously you are against the War ..next time please just be honest and post something about the War instead of hiding your true feelings in a stupid thread about Government trust..I will attempt to answer your phony question though...people can research Bills and legislation we can review the text and see what the programs really involve, when it comes to war we have to rely on our President to make the right decision because he is the one who is privy to all of the Intel and Classified information. There are many people who were opposed to the War as you are well aware. Nice try though you got to Bash America and basically tell Americans we are Stupid because we dont want UHC...well done... | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 7:06:23 AM |
next time please just be honest and post something about the War instead of hiding your true feelings in a stupid thread about Government trust
We're at war?! Really?! With what country?
THIS is what is wrong with the US -- the ignorance of its population. It seems like many or most don't think back farther than 3 months... possibly related as 'the last fiscal quarter.' Like a bunch of coke-heads they snort up the garbage the mainstream media spews and represents as informed and responsible journalism, and then regurgitate it like birds, feeding it to their young. Hardly any seem to remember beyond 9/11. They forget the hijacker-suicide bombers who killed thousands were terrorists with allegiance to and orders from no country in particular; just followers of a religious nut with some nutty ideas of their own. So we were told the US HAD to go into Afghanistan to ferret out Al Quaida and/or the Taliban (2 totally different groups who didn't even get along but sometimes it seems our continued efforts are bringing them together through fighting a common enemy). So Americans suck it up and our leaders the Cheney/Rumsfield the green light. Next thing you know we're in Iraq. WTH?! Okay... fine... what's done is done and you gotta finish what you start. Seven years later and we're no closer to finishing than the day we began. Because the 'war on terrorism,' just like the 'war on poverty' and 'war on drugs' cannot be won. Concepts, things and ideologies aren't people in uniforms so you can't identify, capture or kill the enemy. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:07:44 AM | I don't trust either party, nor do I fully trust the government to do the right thing. It's so top heavy and unwieldy I'm afraid it's going to come crashing down on the whole country at some point and pin every American down with less freedom, heavy taxes on all classes, and far less opportunity than Americans have ever known. I do not believe we are passing down a better America to our children. I believe what they have done the last 8 years is a form of generational theft that is borderline treasonous.
And I don't believe the politicians in either party really care; I think they're more concerned with power at any cost.
I lean right but Obama is nothing more than a super charged version of Bush with a bit more charisma and far better vocal skills. He's doing exactly what Bush did and he wants to go further with it. I guess the Fed can just continue to print more money and monetize our debt. This isn't a bad thing; it worked well for The Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe.
I want the least amount of federal intrusion into my life. I think many things the government sticks its nose into can be solved at the state and local level. There was this crazy thing called Federalism that worked very well before FDR and all the politicians since decided to kill it.
Neither party can be trusted to do the right thing and they have all the levers of state that they can use to undermine individual freedom one bad law, one bad politician at a time. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 2:16:43 PM | I feel that the Government is full of liars and people that are looking out for their own self interests above those of the Country as a whole.
However, I do not see a natural correlation between that belief and supporting the decision to go to war when it was not a needed move. Again, my innate belief that the Government is full of liars that will say anything to garner the support of the American people led me to view the "need" for war as false. Nor do I support all that is being done in the name of fighting terrorism.
I think you are painting with a rather broad brush here.
The rightwing has no ideas, no solutions, and no moral center. The only principle they adhere to is short-term self-interest.
Really? How many times are you going to drag out that tired old line? That is your standard, polarizing response to every damned thread. There is nothing innately rightwing in that statement. You could just as easily substitute Leftwing or Democrat and the statement would have the same meaning. You can do better than that if you want to contribute. Unless, of course, you are just wanting to stir sh*t without contributing anything positive to the discussion. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 3:27:21 PM | the right and the left in this country aren't that different
look at Afghanistan, Obama is going to send in more troops- how is that different from Bush sending in more troops to Iraq - that wonderful surge that was going to make so much diffenence- and so now, what- it's going to work in Afghanistan -a country even harder to "win" in than Iraq because it is more rural, more tribal and less united-
everyone is shouting that the govenment shouldn't enter health care reform, but they don't think twice about the fvcked up way this country enters wars then doesn't have the sense to get the hell out- just a few more bodies- yep, that's going to make a difference
you know, we can't blame "the government" - because we LET the government take over and screw us- time and time again... | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 3:28:54 PM | It's a sad state of affairs but it seems that people are ticked off at all the elected Officials Democrats and Republican alike, local, state and federal.
2010 is going to be an interesting year unless some elected officials do something to gain the trust of their constituents.
People have gotten tired of the elected officials saying one thing and doing another.
This year we even had one elected official say he didn't even care what his district wanted he was going to vote his way.
"I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district if I actually think what I'm doing is going to help them....I will vote against their opinion if I actually believe it will help them," Massa said http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Rep-Massa-on-Healthcare-I-will-vote-adamantly/lx8SFSP1M0m7myDi-bqmnw.cspx | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 3:45:45 PM |
It's a sad state of affairs but it seems that people are ticked off at all the elected Officials Democrats and Republican alike, local, state and federal.
I think it's great! It's the ONLY thing that might finally force people out of the mindset of a corrupted two-party system, where both parties are really two faces of the same animal. If there was ever a time for a middle majority party to get it's crap together and NOT behave just like the other two, now is the time to start. I'm not talking the dozens of one-issue pot-smoker, greenie, religion-based, etc. nuisance parties that come and go.
Unfortunately, my predictive powers also tell me the only thing that will get another MAJOR party formed is enormous amounts of money - BILLIONS, like that given the other two from special interests. So next election, it'll once again simply be the most photogenic and smooth-talking candidate who wins, regardless of their motives.
The sheeple simply aren't outraged enough yet. Close, but not quite. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 4:53:48 PM |
The sheeple simply aren't outraged enough yet. Close, but not quite.
The upcoming midterm elections will be a very telling measure of the "sheeples" degree of outrage. Watch the Democrats lose some of their precious majority and then watch the reaction.
People on both sides of the spectrum are getting fed up with our "Me First" politicians. Maybe now voters will recognize that the best way to be heard is through their votes. If members of the Senate and Congress start getting voted out for not representing the needs of those they were elected to represent the others will soon learn a valuable lesson.
Politicians answer to the voters. it is time for the voters to hold them responsible for their actions and for their voting records. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 6:49:08 PM |
So next election, it'll once again simply be the most photogenic and smooth-talking candidate who wins, regardless of their motives.
I agree and disagree. It will probably be a bit of smooth-talking but it will be a lot of shake up to.
I feel that in the most disgruntled areas it will be more along party line...If they are tired the incumbent Democrat then its probably going to be a Republican whatever they say. If they are tired of the incumbent Republican then it will probably be a Democrat whatever they say..
I am to say one thing it does seem like the Republican elected officials are looking like they have learned something and maybe listening for a while anyway.
I see more elected Republicans trying to cooperate then the Dems, not saying there aren't some good Dems out there.
Some of the elected Democrats really got a bit on the uppity side with their constituents.
It would be nice to see a big shake up in the parties. I have to say I did not like the games the Dems played last year, especially with Florida and Michigan. But it seems that is DNC rules not federal. It seems that each party has their own primary rules which some of use finally realized last year.
Politicians answer to the voters. it is time for the voters to hold them responsible for their actions and for their voting records.
Its a good wish but I wonder if it will happen. This year and next will tell a lot. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 6:52:34 PM | | I think the original question was about the selectivity of trusting the government for some things but not for others. | |
|
| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/4/2009 8:08:02 PM | The rightwing has no ideas, no solutions, and no moral center. The only principle they adhere to is short-term self-interest.
Jeez...if you did alter this and insert "the left" it would mean the same thing....
We[the accused I guess]distrust government and it is partly our own fault......the age old idea of term limits is something that SHOULD and NEEDS to be addressed......again.As long as there is change....and the THREAT of change.......I believe that our politicians may view their jobs more seriously.......and more in line with the public as well.
And yes...I am a "my country,right or wrong" type.....and proud of it.And I have been around long enough to see the glaring errors we have made in some foreign policy issus.....and some of the glaring errors we "had" to make because the whining left wants to help "everybody" in the world.Well....those poor Tibetans.....too bad,not our problem...the suffering African countries,not our problem........The Chinese issues with "our" perception of human rights,toobad,NOT OUR PROBLEM........... and on and on and on.....
And let's remember that "government" is nothing more than a business......and some run better than others.But having the same "worker" putting the same "part" on wrong for his entire career........lotsa warranty crap there!!! | |
|
|
| Page 1 of 5
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
|
Home
login 
