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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/5/2009 7:28:17 PM | Ok, so i dont normally post in a particularly serious manner. But i have to admit, something happened on Friday night and the more i think about it the angrier i become...
This is very unlike me, yes i can lose my temper and i have done many times over the years. But it never lasts and i've never had the oft-quoted 'red mist' that people talk about so much.
On Friday night i went out for a few beers with my closest friend, only a few mind, we both had work in the morning, it was just a catching up session so we could talk about Football and random crap really.
On our usual route back to his house, we came across a small group of feral kids, you know the type. There were 2 lads, and 2 girls.
As they passed by, one of them made some comment (dont they always) and for some reason my friend thought he'd also make his very own cutting remark. It didnt really faze me much, in the jobs i've had i've seen plenty enough aggro to appreciate that some people really just arent worth the hassle. So i thought i'd use the opportunity to roll myself a cigarette. After a few seconds i called Dave (my friend) over, it really isnt worth arguing over what he said and how funny his mates found it.
And then it happened.
One of them attacked him from behind, while the other laid into him from the front.
Now i've witnessed fights kicking off more times than i've had hot dinners. By the time i'd ran the 10 yards to get to him he was already on the floor and these lads were really having a field day.
I shoved them both out of the way and then turned to my friend to make sure he was ok. Thankfully he was getting to his feet so at least he wasnt a sitting duck in case there were any more of their mates about, then i turned to one of his assailants just has they launched their attack on me.
I'm not quite the soft touch though, one of them went over the wall into a nearby garden and the other one i grabbed hold of, threw him onto the concrete then i knelt down beside him and put my hand around his throat (this part sickened me to be honest) I gently squeezed and i told him he has 2 choices, he either gives it up now, or he dies.
By now what i presume to be his girlfriend was standing by me pleading for his life...
He stopped struggling, thankfully, and raised his hands in defeat, so i released him. By now his friend decided having another go at my mate was a good idea. But in a 1 on 1 my friend was also able to subdue him and this kid decided to back off. So i went to check my friend, and the kid i had allowed to stay alive now decided the best time to attack me AGAIN! was now, while my back was turned! It was almost as if he actually enjoyed gambling with his life.....But thats not the point...
Typical Friday night antics yes? Seen it thousands of time myself, been involved in a few tussles myself. But this was my very closest friend, he's pushing 50 now, and i know he's never been in a fight before in his life. A warmer, friendlier, lovable figure of a Man you could ever hope to meet.
And i'm sat here, even now, getting angrier and angrier about the whole thing. Part of me wishes that i had actually killed this kid, and then killed his friend. Not just because they launched a brutal assault on such a gentle fella, but also because i know that someday soon, these kids will do it again. Someday they'll get someone who isnt able to defend themselves, somebody who will probably end up seriously injured or even worse dead. But i know in the back of my mind i could have stopped this future event ever happening by eliminating this scum from the planet.
Or maybe they'll try it on the wrong person again, but the next person wont be as forgiving as myself while their drawing their last breath. 
So anyway.......I'm sure i'll calm down, probably very quickly, luckily my friend only suffered a broken nose, fractured cheekbone and some pretty nasty abrasions. At least i still have him alive, for that i'm thankful.
My questions are thus.
1. Minimal force is something i've been very much indoctrinated into. If you best someone, threaten to kill them, then they attack you again, is the next step of minimal force actually killing them? Or should i break his arms and legs instead, maybe smash his head on the concrete until he stops struggling and hope he doesnt die?
2. Feral kids tend to either hunt in numbers, or they'll adopt a quick hit and run tactic before they get the good hiding they deserve, luckily i was able to get to them before they ran off. How did our society ever sink this low?
3. What can be done about it, mostly these kids are under 18, its been going on for years (the council estate i grew up in and lived on for many years was notorious for it) It generally stops when they hit 18 though, because thats when they can be fully charged as an adult and generally end up in prison. Should the law be changed? Slapping an asbo on them is just their badge of honour.
4. How would you change the law if you think it needs to be changed?
I could be sat in a Police cell somewhere waiting to be tried for manslaughter, yet all i was doing was rolling myself a cigarette.
It's crossed my mind that maybe i could become a one-Man lynch mob, roaming the streets of Britain killing these kids, and their girlfriends (so they dont breed) thus ensuring all of us safer streets to walk on. But thats just me being silly, adding a touch of humour where none should be. Or! To make sure i get the right people, check the media daily, see the scum being slapped on the wrist by some court, then i can go and murder them? When i'm older and much more vulnerable, i'd actually be happy if i knew someone out there, was murdering these kids, and making the streets of the Country that i love safer for all of us.
Dark thoughts?
You better believe it....... | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/5/2009 8:05:09 PM | Long term no point in worrying about it. Karma will get these people at some point. I've seen it happen.
No need to feel bad about what you did either, they asked for it and you were looking after your mate. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/5/2009 10:39:18 PM | | You should of got your moneys worth and kicked the sh*t out of him lol. Thats what these feral chavs need, is a good hiding. Ever since the early 80s youths have had no respect because they see these human rights that they have now as a right to make everyone else's life a misery. Bring back the cane and the bobby who can give you a wack around the head. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/5/2009 10:40:48 PM | | And if anyone dares stick up for these ferals saying "awww they are bored with nothing to do" I'll scream! They have much more than most kids did years ago. TV, internet etc etc, kids nowadays don't know they are born | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 12:23:02 AM | You werent walking around redditch was you o.p?
im lucky in a way, as the chavs see me as a combination of charles bronsons death wish and victor meldrew!! I had an incident couple of weeks ago which could of seen me in a load of trouble with the law but thank feck it never went further!
im not scared of them or to tell them off, after all why should i? Before any pc do gooder pleads for them, its their parents fault for not giving them a good hiding when they feck up!!
i do agree with the cane being brought back, and the police to stick up for the victim who fights back, after all if you put your hand into the fire you expect it to get burnt.
how far would i go in a fight? Tbh i wouldnt know, yes im an ex soldier etc but dont know if i could keep my cool, saying that i find a sharp kick to the side of the knee works wonders and allows escape till i can get a shotgun.
edit, the ironic side is, i used to work in some rough parts of brum where theres gang conflict and chatted ok to lads who wouldnt think twice of shooting anybody, and yet in redditch we have gobby chavs, who think there gangs lmao | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 3:36:19 AM | Back in the day…
I was scared of my elders,
My teacher,
My mum,
The police,(bloody terrified)
Each one of them would give you a clip around the ear, for the most minor of things.
In the past 30 years,a few laws regarding children, have made it possible that they now have no boundaries,and fear nothing.
PLEASE NOTE..i am only talking about this (the op subject)…laws regarding children, are there to protect them.
xx | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 3:43:09 AM | | thats whild so it is , what an awful thing to happen to you and your friend, those kids parents should be ashamed of themselves. At the end of the day it's parents responsibility to teach their children values, morals and respect and for those who don't - a pro active social services policy to intervene quickly and amend the situation. its really scary to hear of stories like this - where does it all end? | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 3:55:23 AM |
3. What can be done about it, mostly these kids are under 18, its been going on for years (the council estate i grew up in and lived on for many years was notorious for it) It generally stops when they hit 18 though, because thats when they can be fully charged as an adult and generally end up in prison. Should the law be changed? Slapping an asbo on them is just their badge of honour.
Having been in a similar situation years ago I made enquiries as to the identity of the lads, and working on the theory that ignorance breeds ignorance, knocked on the door and gave the father a clout and told him why, in the vain hope that the violence would be passed down the line.
It really pisses me that folk of our age cant go for a night out and walk home in safety. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:00:06 AM | some of the parents of these children,also grew up with these more relaxed attituides and laws.....
therefore.... the parents do not know any better.... | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:02:40 AM | Long long time ago, a friend was walking with his mate in some seaside town and they were set upon by a couple of youths. Friend promptly grabbed one of them, said, "Oooh, you're so strong!" in his campest voice and kissed villain firmly on the lips.
Given that friend and mate were both quite burly, the assailants left in somewhat of a hurry...
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:07:09 AM |
some of the parents of these children,also grew up with these more relaxed attituides and laws
I'm sorry but theres very little relaxed about kicking the shite out of some poor block whose only trying to make his way home after a night out, its pure fecking ignorance and the parents should be ashamed of themselves, you can teach kids right from wrong, regardless of how ineffectve the law is. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:28:01 AM | Sorry to hear about your situation OP
If you best someone, threaten to kill them, then they attack you again, is the next step of minimal force actually killing them? Or should i break his arms and legs instead, maybe smash his head on the concrete until he stops struggling and hope he doesnt die?
I do not see the harm in dishing out a little violence as long as it's in self-defence. I was brought up with the belief "If they're male and big enough to give it, they are big enough to receive it". One of my uncles was in a similar situation the other week, he was attacked (grabbed and head-butted) by a 14/15 year old lad, so in return he gave him a good hiding...
How did our society ever sink this low?
1) Political Correctness
2) Multiculturalism
3) Poor parenting
4) Lack of relevant education
5) Diluting our traditional beliefs/values
6) Too many 'Rights'
7) Governments being obsessed with a growing population at the expense of everything else
There is more, but that will do for starters...
The PC brigade seem to be a bit quiet... | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:34:30 AM | | I would have just ignored any comments. Answering back isn't very clever in my humble opinion. It's not just a problem today, it's always been a problem (male testosterone, particularly in the young). If you answer back it's a challenge and challenges must be met or loss of face results. Strangely, it's a gamble a lot of young males are willing to take. I saw plenty of incidents like that when I was a kid ;). | |
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sjxx
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Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 14 | |
| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:39:29 AM | FFS this has made my blood boil.
The reason that little prick attacked you a second time is because they take nothing seriously including your suggestion that you could snuff him out.
I take my 14 year old daughter everywhere if its possible because I am terrified that she will run into gangs like this.
Fighting back was in my view totally justified and these scummy little wánk stains got less than they deserved.
I would expect that their parents were the usual lazy, ineffectual useless types who neither know nor care where their spawn are or what they are doing.
Dean I hope you are ok and not too shaken up.
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:44:19 AM | well obviously,some of these parents do not give a toss.
because ..as there kids are beating up some poor person on their way home from a evening out....
15 years ago,they where also doing the same thing .............
and being under 18 they got away with it...
and i am talking about the scum parents................
it it not a nice subject...............but there are some fooking,shitey parents,that do not give a flying fook,what there kids get up to.....ashamed of themselves(i don`t think so)
it`s beacuse me /you,have morals and standards,with our own children..... | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 4:48:46 AM | | Pity you didn't kill the little f*ckers. Feral scum like that don't deserve to breath the same air as the rest of us. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 5:32:00 AM | I remember once 2 kids (must have been about 16) pulled a knife on me and tried to use it, being quite quick and knowing a few judo moves I managed to bring my attacker to the floor, I didn't let him go without a few slaps and a broken nose. The reaction of the people in the vacinity was shock and you can clearly see they felt sorry for the "poor children."
This all happened in broad day light and after the attack this twat came over and started lecturing me saying my actions were wrong and that he was going to call the police, lets just say, when I left the scene he was unconscious  For being politically correct he got the brunt of what I would have done to them had they been a bit older.
Unfortunately PC, health and safety and human rights make the legal system in this country a doddle to exploit. People blame parents but the real fault is the general public who have continuously voted in a labour government since the 1980's. That's where all these stupid rules and regulations come from, that's why feral children grow up into feral adults who continuously get away with it.
I live in an area with very high crime and the police are absolutely 100% completely and utterly useless, I could list a few dozen cases when they've been called to a number of incidents ranging from theft, forgery, violent assults and even murder and they always have the same attitude, fill in a form. Somebody got killed in the town last year and the police officers "rushed" to the scene yawning and complaining about having to do overtime. Ask anybody in my town what the police are like and you will get the same response. The mildly amusing copper in our town is the swearing police officer, unfortunately he tries to provoke people so he can hand out section 5's, when my shop got robbed he said "This is Luton, you aint getting your plasma back mate, want my advice, go and rob one yourself" | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 5:45:39 AM | Why does a 50 year old male get into dialogue with a group of youths as they had made a comment as you walked on by? Is this not looking for trouble? What exactly did he say to turn the situation from cutting comments to violence? Would your friend of gone over to a larger group or older group? He was looking for trouble from what I can tell as much as they where. To grab a youth around the neck and threaten to kill him to the point his girlfriend was pleading for his life I don't blame him for a second to come after you again regardless of what came before.
Violence isn't acceptable and a group of teenagers can do a lot of damage to anyone but they aren't fully grown and a fully grown adult could do a lot of unintentional damage to a young adult and it may be hard in the heat of the moment just think how it reads in court, 40 year old male beats up and hospitalises 15 year old child.
1. Minimal force is something i've been very much indoctrinated into. If you best someone, threaten to kill them, then they attack you again, is the next step of minimal force actually killing them? Or should i break his arms and legs instead, maybe smash his head on the concrete until he stops struggling and hope he doesnt die?
Minimal force is enough force to stop them attacking you but not so much as to course permanent damage, if the attack is constant then more force can be used imo. I think most adults could stop a teenager attacking them 1 on 1 without causing major harm, though if you fear for your life how far can you go? that unfortunately would be for a judge and jury to decide.
2. Feral kids tend to either hunt in numbers, or they'll adopt a quick hit and run tactic before they get the good hiding they deserve, luckily i was able to get to them before they ran off. How did our society ever sink this low?
Not all kids that sit around in groups are feral or deserve a hiding and the danger is we label all with the same tag. Why are not encouraging the police to do their jobs? Your friend had a broken nose and cheekbone, what did the kid wake up with? Your also teaching him that to solve violence is with violence, someone hits you, you threaten them with their life by strangulation.
3. What can be done about it, mostly these kids are under 18, its been going on for years (the council estate i grew up in and lived on for many years was notorious for it) It generally stops when they hit 18 though, because thats when they can be fully charged as an adult and generally end up in prison. Should the law be changed? Slapping an asbo on them is just their badge of honour.
Does it end? don't they just spend the evening in the pub or a club and have a fight after? I know kids that have been indoctrined into violence and it doesn't end with age it takes maturity. They have no respect for the police and what the police can do to them.
4. How would you change the law if you think it needs to be changed?
The laws don't need changing they just need to be applied better, groups of kids aren't allowed to congregate and drink on corners and parks. Violence is illegal and your allowed to protect yourself but not allowed to dish out a hiding because you feel they deserve it. I am fairly sure that can be detained in detention centres under the age of 18, there are curfews and house arrest that eliminate the problem too. The laws are there if you chose to use them rather than allowing violence to breed violence. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 6:12:16 AM | I totally disagree with those who say it would have been better to say nothing and walk away. Whilst unruly little b*stards like the ones you and your friend encountered think they can do and say whatever they like, without fear of reprisal or retaliation, then they'll carry on. And whilst confrontation isn't necessarily going to make them stop, why the hell SHOULDN'T we all stand up for ourselves? If some cheeky little kid says something to me in the street then I'm going to say something back.
Hope you're ok OP, and if it happens again, kick him a bit harder next time. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 6:16:07 AM | | ^^^ sticks and stones. It's not worth the bother. You aren't going to get a Treatise on Wittgenstein out of them. It's always going to end in violence, so what's the point? | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 6:19:30 AM |
Unfortunately PC
Do NOT blame political correctness. I beleive in polictical correctness, which is all about treating others the way you would wish to be treated yourself.
In the same situation I would have done the same as you. Please get off your high horse about political correctness until you undestand what it is ACTUALLY meant for.
Hint, it is not meant for letting little basstards off the hook for trying to stab someone. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 6:28:32 AM | Kids carry knives, ask them why and they will say for protection and I would suggest when a much larger and physical presence is beating them up for a comment, I would suggest that is the time it is going to be used. I don't think they should get away with making comments or hanging around corners intimidating people but rather that than someone losing their life physically or through incarceration because they couldn't accept being called a name.
Violence or confronting them in the dead of night is not the answer, what will they do the next time they see you or your friend? what would you do? How can ascertain that a child is feral, from a broken home and not going to amount to much in that instance that they deserve a beating? | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 6:48:02 AM | I'm sorry to read what happened OP and hope your OK now and your friend recovers soon
2. How did our society ever sink this low?
The reason our society has sunk so low is that a large majority of kids in the UK now days
have no respect for either themselves or anybody in Authority and just do as they please.
You can''t even smack your own child on the back side anymore if they have been very
naughty without the fear of social services being called and you being arrested by old bill.
Feral kids will continue to do as they want until our government actually grows some balls
and hands out tough punishments for these scum bags who roam our streets late at night.
But I don't see that happening sadly unless people in this country stand up and fight back
If I was ever attacked like that who ever was responsible would wish they were never born.
Even if that meant I'm the one who ends up arrested by the Police and charged in court. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 6:53:07 AM | How I see it, these kids are actually scared.
If they don't react to any percieved insult or threat to their 'respect' their mates may call them a ****, in a way, they lose face. In their dellusional minds, they have to answer any threat. I believe, they view themselves as 'big gangsters', or hard men, but in reality, they are trying to become feared. Why? Because if they are 'feared and respected by all' (actual quote after an incident), then no one will dare hurt them. Sounds like a scared childs fantasy doesnt it, except they dont want to be super heroes :P
There are many factors to blame, they have no real respect, or concept of responsibility, the parents don't care, so they have gained alot of their understanding from the world from movies, games, or older friends they look up to. Theres no consequence of the action, and generally people just take it. The OP may have fought back, but how many people would not? The odds of retaliation are so low, you are just the one in a million, so however good it felt to do something back, it will make no difference to them. Even if they get put in hospital (from experiance), as long as that doesn't become a regular occurence, they will continue the behaviour as it >generally< works. | |
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| Feral Kids
Posted: 9/6/2009 6:55:12 AM | I think the issue is possibly that these days you cannot lift your hand to a minor without possibly ending up facing charges yourself. These kids know that. I don't feel unsafe living where I do, it's not the worst place to live on the planet but some of the kids are little **stards and I make no excuse for saying that.
There's a girl who lives downstairs from me, she has 6 kids, 5 of whom live with her, the oldest lives with the gran because he is out of control. The ages of the kids that live with her range from about 12 to 6 months.
Her daughter who is about ten is lovely. The two older boys are wild. If I walk downstairs all you hear is her screaming at them. She has social work input but they see the house at it's best, they don't see the amount of traffic to her door. She deals drugs, it's well known around here but no one wants to admit that she does, including the housing.
Part of me feels sorry for the kids growing up in that environment, part of me gets really sick and tired of the cheek I get from the 2 older boys, it's just verbal abuse and I can deal with that, I'm no one's fool but about 5 years ago one of her boys chased me downstairs with an iron bar. I had to slam the door in his face to stop him from hitting me with it.
I was standing at a bus stop a couple of weeks later and he was chucking things at my head, from across the road, conkers or something similar. If he had actually connected the force would have split my head open. I think part of the problem is, when you have kids who are acting like that and who come from families who are notorious, who exactly is going to take them on? You complain to your housing office, the person on the receiving end gets told you have made a complaint about them, you get offered mediation but you still actually need to live there. I've always thought that the more anti social people are, the easier their lives are.
We have like many other towns an anti social task force. They are supposed to attend incidents that take place after 11pm at night. In reality they don't. You phone them, they tell you to phone the police.
Some parents do not give a toss about what their children are up to and that is the bottom line. They don't care if they are hanging around the streets at midnight.
I watched from my kitchen window a few weeks while a teenager who had an argument with an older man, came back with a brick and smashed his windows in, walked off laughing. There was another incident about 3 months ago where a group of kids thought it would be fun to nick someone's car and crash it.
There's obviously a lack of respect but I think there's also a lack of consequences as well.
As some people know I've spent about 15 years working with young people so there's not much I haven't seen or dealt with in my time, but there are times when I've felt that I've been at work all day, dealing with chaos, as I was paid to do, when you get home all you want is a bit of peace and quiet, no more, no less. | |
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