| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/17/2009 11:02:42 AM | I am currently unemployed, as are many others in this wonderful economy of ours. I realize that the London area has been one of the harder hit, due to it's economy being so centered on the auto industry.
In my job searching, I have noticed there is a strong trend to dramatically underpay people - to the point that it truly is insane. In one job, I saw the wage for an "Electronics Engineering Technologist" with 3-5 yrs. experience at $12-$16/hr. Another job for a "Software Developer" was $15/hr. These were both jobs within about a 45 min. drive of London.
Now, I really have to wonder how employers think they will fill these jobs.... or if they really don't care what quality of employee they get with wages that ridiculously low. At those wages, I doubt if a person could pay the bills, even if they were a single person with no dependents. The prices of food and rent have not gone down that much, I don't think.... at least not last time I went to the grocery store.
Please don't take this as a self-pity thing, because I truly am wondering if this is just in my area of Ontario, or is it more widespread? Or, are these just resume phishing ploys?.... or am I missing something here? | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/17/2009 11:36:44 AM | It certainly can be the cause for concern for peeps that are out there seeking work that they can support themselves and their familys on. But your last paragraph is what tweeked a memory of mine!
Or, are these just resume phishing ploys?.
I remember a long long time ago while I was living in Edmonton, I was invited to an open interview for management positions at a major video store chain. The interview panel gave a rundown on the company...history, origins, and missives....stuff like that. Then they explained to the 15+ people that were there that they were looking to hire Managers and Assistant managers for the different stores around the Edmonton area.
They said....Managers will be started at a salary of 21000 a year and Assistant Managers will be started at 16000 a year. If anyone is not comfortable with the renumeration, you can be excused now.
About 5 people got up and left. I know I was not comfortable with the figures they announced, but I am not one to walk out on something. So I stayed for the remainder of the interview.
I eventually was offered a position with them as a manager and it did not start at 21000 a year...but 26000. Assistants were hired in at more then 16000. It was just a phishing ploy to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
So, my point is, if there is an advertised job that appeals to you and you feel you are more then qualified to do it, don't let the 'posted' wage deter you. It could be exactly what you said...a phishing ploy! | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/17/2009 12:17:05 PM | well, unfortunatly-- some people feel that they are going to take a job, even though they may be underpaid, because they need to have a job. And jobs are scarce--- and yes-- it is really hard to survive on that, but you do what you have to do---especially if you are trying to feed your kids.
They will fill the jobs, because there are a lot of people looking for jobs. | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/17/2009 12:47:40 PM | In my job searching, I have noticed there is a strong trend to dramatically underpay people - to the point that it truly is insane. In one job, I saw the wage for an "Electronics Engineering Technologist" with 3-5 yrs. experience at $12-$16/hr. Another job for a "Software Developer" was $15/hr. These were both jobs within about a 45 min. drive of London.
I'm on the payroll of a large Markham-based software company that shall remain nameless except for its first initial of I and last initial of M. It used to B a great place to work, at least until the bean-counters rose to take control of things.
In the last few years many jobs at our Markham lab have been off-shored, first to India and most recently to China. A lot of "reasons" are tossed about but it really comes down to economics - you can get a software developer in a "developing nation" to work for a fraction of what you would pay someone here to do the same work. Further, expected benefits packages are much lower, and the governments in those nations offer generous incentives to companies relocating operations to their nations.
As a result, so many of my coworkers are now without their old jobs, some after two decades or more of continuous service despite being solid performers in that time. It's just a matter of time before my place is gone too.
Supply and demand dictates wage levels. The jobs we had are now mostly gone, sold off to India or China in exchange for lucrative government subsidies, tax exemptions and low local wages. What's left here is declining and largely dominated by small independent software companies that are not yet large enough to be able to offshore. In many cases they're also not large enough to offer decent wages. I'm shocked to hear of starting wages of $15,000 though.
Mind you, it could be worse. I used to joke that I should have become an auto-worker. Regular work, predictable schedules, good pay and you didn't have to spend years in university to get that job. The bonus was that when your shift is done, and you never had to take your work home with you at night or on your weekends "off". Well, now I'm glad I didn't become an autoworker, but I do wonder these days if I shouldn't have become an electrician or contract killer instead. Seems that there's always work for them ;-).
| |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/17/2009 1:16:35 PM |
So, my point is, if there is an advertised job that appeals to you and you feel you are more then qualified to do it, don't let the 'posted' wage deter you. It could be exactly what you said...a phishing ploy!
Thanx Greanize - I never thought of it that way... probably because I have usually been the recipient of their wanting to pay me less. I have seen so many companies that have taken so much of their work offshore, as another poster suggested, and then when the work is done poorly, they wonder why they have lost so many of their customers.
Are Toronto and other areas of Ontario as affected as the London area with this problem? | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/17/2009 5:46:16 PM | Its not you, the ecomonic downfall which targeted the auto industry in London and surrounding areas, has had a rippling effect. "For every autoworker out of work it directly effects 7 other people.
Which has made employers tread lightly when it comes to increasing the workforce. Most manufacturing companys are looking towards temperary agenices. I recently heard that there is hope at the end of the tunnel however it will about another years until the employment trend takes an upswing.
Unfortunately this has tightened employers to lower pay rate due to the high rate of unemployment, thier thinking is "there people out there willing to work for a lower wage.
G | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/17/2009 6:18:48 PM | I think of the starting wage as an entry level position.
I would apply to the job anyway, and then if I'm the successful applicant, I would negotiate milestone wage increases at three months, six months and one year. I would also take that opportunity to negotiate an accelerated vacation increase and waiver on any waiting period for pension contributions with the company matching the deductions.
Smart employers will negotiate with prospective employees as it is in their best interest to gain the best and the brightest. | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/20/2009 10:25:43 PM | It's not just around London, this is a common thing all over the country. The simple fact is, many employers figure that if enough people are out of work, and desperate, it's only a matter of time before they'll be willing to work for half wages, the alternative being to sleep under a bridge.
This isn't likely to change any time soon, the jobs that have been, and continue to be off-shored are gone for good. Our own government has worked very hard to turn Canada into a third world country, and they're well on their way to doing it. It's our fault, all of us. We let it happen. | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/21/2009 3:49:37 AM | | If you can't pay the bills off that - entry level pay - then you are spending way too much! Take the jobs when you can get them and work your way up - that's what people do - I guess people forget that getting back into the work force. Expecting to get executive pay up front is delusional! | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/21/2009 4:37:35 PM | This has nothing to do with expecting executive level pay.
Entry-level pay for software developers with a university degree and no work experience used to be in the $45-50,000 range 15 years ago.
Now the OP is mentioning a $15,000 figure for sofware developers? Given the education costs entailed in becoming a qualified software developer, I would hope that is incorrect. You can make more than that slinging fries at McDonalds with absolutely no education or other training/experience. | |
|
| |
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/21/2009 6:03:13 PM | My error. $31 K is still pretty poor pay compared to what used to be, but at least it's a more livable wage than McD's. Unfortunately, Ontario labour law has changed
Did you know that in Ontario, employers no longer need to pay overtime to salaried software developers? I got the official notification in writing from my employer a couple of months ago that we are will no longer be paid any overtime pay for excess hours, neithe at straight time rates or time and a half.
You could pull an 80 hour week to meet your project deadlines (and we have quite frequently) , and still only be legally entitled to that $15 per hour x 40 hours. That would effectively put you well below minimum hourly wage despite being paid much higher on paper.  | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/21/2009 6:05:26 PM |
Did you know that in Ontario, employers no longer need to pay overtime (neither straight time or time and a half) to salaried software developers? I got the official notification in writing from my employer a couple of months ago. Could you cite the law that mandates this?... I wasn't aware of this change in legislation... | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/21/2009 7:07:00 PM |
Could you cite the law that mandates this?... I wasn't aware of this change in legislation...
I vigorously filed the letter from my employer in the round bin after reading it, but I'll see if I can dig up something up on it. | |
|
| Changes in the working world - is it the area... or is it me?
Posted: 9/21/2009 7:26:11 PM | Ok, here it is...
The Employment Standards Act, 2000 can be found at http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_00e41_e.htm
This act governs total daily and weekly working hours, required breaks, and overtime pay.
However, there is a wide range of exceptions to the act, and those exceptions can be found in ONTARIO REGULATION 285/01 - EXEMPTIONS, SPECIAL RULES AND ESTABLISHMENT OF MINIMUM WAGE, source at
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_010285_e.htm
It requires a bit of back and forth document cross-referencing, but it's not too hard to follow. | |
|
Home
login 
