| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:11:32 PM | I asked this question of a distraught friend, who recently got "pumped & dumped"
Do you feel commitment can be established by verbal consent, or maybe commitment is not really all that important in a relationship?
My question rest on the historical context of "marriage", as a formal contract before people indulge in sex, and the sole purview of a woman, when to have sex.
If a woman by cultural influence, and/or a lack of moral teaching and responsibility engages in sex without securing a contract of commitment, (marriage) is she not by default implicitly giving evidence to the man, that she can be easily laid?
I state this on the assumption that most women value their mind, body and subsequent emotions with a potential partner. (Self -respect) So how can she deem a man is a worthy partner, if said gentleman has not furnished a commitment?
Unfortunately "sex" has been relegated to an arena of intimacy without commitment, and seeking to establishment commitment by "verbal" consent is a futile waste of time, which keeps young men and women on the merry-go-round of emotional pain, disillusionment and frustration.
I'd say sex is not an adequate determinant in finding out if a guy is really into
you, and they'll continue to milk-the-cow-for-free until a woman sensible enough requires more before sex. I just don't understand how we place significant value on getting a car, or a house, via signed "contract", but expect Mr Good-Looking-Sweet-Talker to confirm his potential without one?
But of course it also depends on whether or not you might be a hedonist, and view sex as common entertainment, to be used at the whim of suggestion, or if your value is
based upon something else (fill in the blank) _____________
I say that, because I've yet to meet a woman who felt respected after she experienced a "pump & dump" situation. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:15:37 PM | What if I don't want marriage? What if I just want a good fu*king now and then, and when he moves on, jolly good.
For those women that feel 'used': You had sex. You used him too. You used him for his penis to get your own jollies off. IF you did it for any other reason, than you did it for the wrong reason.
Why I choose to have sex before commitment? Well, because if he's horrible in the sack and I'm stuck with him, I'm a very depressed girl. I enjoy sex. I don't see it as part of a mutual contract of commitment. I'm an animal, human in species and such. And we're made for reproduction. the fact that we feel 'ecstasy' from sex suggests we're gonna have it, commitment or not. It's just a matter of picking who's a jerk off and who isn't.
Don't pick the guy who's just out for a lay. PIck the guy who you can have a conversation with before, sometimes during and after the lay. That way, there's open communication about what you want and what's expected. And if the conversation goes well on both ends, he'll be back. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:26:13 PM |
Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Generally speaking as I don't "pump/dump".........
1. May not want a commitment aka casual dating, one-night stand or FWB
2. Test "drive" before committing
As long as BOTH parties are aware of a NSA and in agreement; happy fawkin! | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:27:30 PM | I'm sorry if you conceive yourself as an animal, but Homo sapiens from a biological and intelligence perspective have no connection with primates, especially since animals have no cognitive reasoning ability.
So according to your post, the value of anything outside of physical pleasure and communication, is not really important in choosing a partner? You two sound like "hedonist" just seeking pleasure "fawkin" as you so eloquently put it, like changing a pair of shoes. lol (FUNNY) | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:42:42 PM | Sorry to butt in here. I mean I'm not REALLY sorry. I respect you OP. I have read your posts before. I respect your intelligence and convictions. Also you have a relationship with God. He came to you. You asked, he came. That's my guess. Because he will. Come. If you ask.
I always used sex to get love. That's all I got to offer a woman. 
Edit: Sorry. I remember you saying something about God or I thought or I'm wrong, I guess. But I still respect you. Plus, anyway, you got your head on straight.
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:50:27 PM | You know more about me, than I know about myself, because it's news to me if I have a relationship with God. I have a strong suspicion you have more to offer. btw, don't misinterpret moral values as an indication of religion, we all have them (most of us anyway) Your bank manager will naturally follow moral obligation to safe guard your money, but that does not necessarily indicate that he has a relationship with God.
I will add, in my opinion seeking to establish a relationship without any moral foundation, is like trying to build a sky scrapper with sand & spoon.. Unless of course one is a hedonist, then they might use the spoon for other activities..hehe | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:58:08 PM | I'm sorry if you conceive yourself as an animal, but Homo sapiens from a biological and intelligence perspective have no connection with primates, especially since animals have no cognitive reasoning ability.
So according to your post, the value of anything outside of physical pleasure and communication, is not really important in choosing a partner? You two sound like "hedonist" just seeking pleasure "fawkin" as you so eloquently put it, like changing a pair of shoes. lol (FUNNY)
No, I'm sorry you couldn't comprehend my post. Must be the different levels of "intellect". 
Schucks........Now, I'm an "animal" and a "hedonist"........woohoo!!! | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 1:00:30 PM | | I think women who say that they need to have sex with a man before committing to him to see if hes 'good in bed' are a bit shallow tbh. As if the only ingredient for a good marriage is good sex, what about love trust respect etc etc? Also Good sex imo can be achieved through lots of practise ;) and good communication between both partners. Poor sex is rarely something that is incurable. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 1:01:11 PM | Sabrosura...You would do well to read the post above yours, I was simply answering both of your post. I hope I may attain your level of intellect one day. And I'm in agreement with the post above mine, I've always thought seeking positive character traits (honesty, trust, dependability, self reliance) was more important than evaluating once sexual abilities before establishing a relationship. Unless one is trying out for a porno film..hehe Well, I guess times have changed.
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 1:16:47 PM | OP, please provide your scientific evidence for this comment:
but Homo sapiens from a biological and intelligence perspective have no connection with primates, especially since animals have no cognitive reasoning ability.
This comment goes against everything I've learned so far in college about biology and genetics.
Or perhaps you're one of those that believes the creationism theory.
I still want to see the scientific evidence on that theory too. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 2:47:18 PM | Well... I think there is a balance. Are you talking about staying celibate until marriage? What level of commitment are you talking about?
I am happy to say that I have never been "pumped and dumped" (what a terrible term, btw!). This is because I DO require commitment before I will get into a sexual relationship. What type of commitment? Well, I need a more informal social commitment. I want:
- the "girlfriend" label
- public acknowledgement of our relationship (ie: meet friends and family)
- a certain amount of time spent together (measured in quality, not quantity)
- evidence of some sort of emotional investment
I would not be willing to maintain celibacy before marriage, because I think you also learn a lot about someone from that shared intimacy. There is also sexual compatibility - which is important. I never thought it was THAT important, until I met someone with a LOOOOOOW sex drive. Which is a huge part of the reason we broke up. I agree that you can work on techniques... but if one person flat out doesn't want it - you have an issue. Imagine if I had married him?? It would have been a divorce.
So again, I think it is a balance. If you are going to commit to spending THE REST OF YOUR LIFE (<-capitalized for emphasis!!!) with someone, I want to know the most I possibly can about them before I do. You can accomplish this while still requesting SOME form of commitment before sex.
JMO. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 2:51:25 PM |
But of course it also depends on whether or not you might be a hedonist, and view sex as common entertainment, to be used at the whim of suggestion, or if your value is
based upon something else (fill in the blank) _____________
I have been guitly of
Guilty of ASSume +ing w/o e Of cousre I guess you what that makes,
an ass of of U and Me. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 3:04:17 PM | This has turned into a battle of morals and pseudo-intellect. Dont ask for opinions then turn around and name call. You are only lowering your own self proclaimed intellect. The fact that some people utilize sex as an informal handshake is their own prerogative.
Think of people as students. Some of them are kindergartners who need guidance and are needy who dont know what to expect of a relationship. Then there are others who are in elementary who still need guidance but are less in need though are willing to learn anything. Then you have your High Schooler's. They are on the path of enlightenment, still being guided, but still know what they want. They also are learning to teach others and give their own perspective and willing to work to make thing work out. Then you have those people in college like cheshire_grin who know what they want, who know what they want and do not want to have people that are not as knowledgeable as them slowing them down, so to speak. They want people who are up to speed or further who can keep up. They do not want to have to teach someone from kindergarten or even from elementary.
I hope that analogy make any sense and is in no way how everyone views life or sex. It's just a perspective to understand certain peoples' pov. Please dont flame me cuz i doubt i will check back on your responses. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 3:14:38 PM | OP, you want to lambast women for not being chaste... why don't you put some of that responsibility on men for not being loathsome more often than not... making undelivered promises and pursuit for nothing more than their hedonist tendancies.
Fact is, celibacy doesn't work. We are hard wired to want sex. Sex is a natural part of life. To burden women with 100% of the blame for needs and urges they have just as much as men is irresponsible and immoral and sexist. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 3:14:43 PM | I am utterly confused here.
I thought it was more oftentimes MEN who wanted sex before establishing commitment?? ..... I mean to some guys if he hasn't had sex with a woman yet -- she's just "a woman he's seeing" or dating ... but nothing to the extent of serious yet. 
So what is the problem here again guys?? | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 5:37:03 PM | | I've learned the hard way that "the fvcking you're getting ain't worth the fvcking you're getting." My emotions always come into play. Sex is not an athletic event for me. It took me a long time to get to the point where I need commitment before sex but better late than never. Just my personal experience, I don't judge others on theirs. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 6:29:33 PM |
But of course it also depends on whether or not you might be a hedonist, and view sex as common entertainment, to be used at the whim of suggestion, or if your value is
based upon something else (fill in the blank) _____________
well, of course a woman's (or a man's) value is based on something besides their sexual expression. like maybe their commitment to honesty, to doing well by others and themselves, that sort of thing?
your circumstances are specious because you offer only two choices: sex as a part of marriage, and sex as a source of pain for women (the pump and dump). there are others, you know. and there are other commitments besides marriage.
this position is so victorian and objectifying and male-centric. a woman's p#ssy is not a gold ring to serve as a reward for the man who meets some list of societally approved commitment criteria. it's not about men at all - it's about the WOMAN who owns it. and women are not emotional children who must be protected from their own sexuality by white-knight men waving the banner of marriage.
my single biggest surprise of these forums is the number of men living in the 19th century regarding female sexual expression. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 6:39:07 PM | Geez..I've never been 'pumped & dumped"...I always ended up in a long term relationship with the idiots.
<div class='quote'>I say that, because I've yet to meet a woman who felt respected after she experienced a "pump & dump" situation.
Hmmmm....I'm not sure what's worse....getting "pumped & dumped" and feeling like I wasn't respected...OR staying too long in a relationship where I didn't feel respected. | |
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| Why do you have sex before establishing commitment?
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:59:56 PM | deborah815 hopefully others will learn such a valuable lesson. Unfortunately many men have not experienced the privilege of raising daughters, which can greatly determine how one understands the importance of commitment, either that, or they simply don't care for their children's well being. More than likely they just send them to an abortion clinic to get "fixed". Nothing is more deplorable than a Father who neglects his obligation to instill self-respect in his kids.
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