| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:38:09 AM | Found this article online this morning....thought we could share our opinions on it.
Does this change your mind about spanking? Spanking can lower your child's IQ
Posted Fri, Sep 25, 2009
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Forget everything else you've ever read about spanking. All the arguments about how ineffective it is or how it can damage the relationship between you and your child, all the other arguments against spanking you've heard 10,000 times before. Perhaps this brand new research, showing that spanking can lower your child's IQ, will change your mind about spanking once and for all.
Professor Murray Straus of the University of New Hampshire has discovered that the traumatizing effects of spanking have a spillover effect on IQ. Specifically, children who were spanked had lower IQs than children who were not spanked. Straus is presenting the results of his research at the 14th International Conference on Violence, Abuse, and Trauma, in San Diego, California, today.
To conduct his research, Straus followed children in two different age groups (ages two to four and ages five to nine). He looked at children who were being spanked and children who were not being spanked. He then followed up to see how all of the children were doing four years later, so that he could investigate any differences between being spanking versus not being spanking.
Here's what he found:
The IQ scores of children ages two to four who were spanked were 5 points lower four years later than children who were not spanked.
The IQ scores of children ages five to nine who were spanked were 2.8 points lower four years later than children who were not spanked.
How often parents spanked their children also made a difference in how well the children were doing. Children who were spanked frequently were developing more slowly than children who were spanked less frequently. Even occasional spankings had a measurable impact on child development.
According to Straus, being spanked is extremely stressful and can become a chronic source of stress for young children. They may experience post-traumatic stress symptoms such as being afraid that terrible things are about to happen and being easily startled. These symptoms are associated with lower IQ.
Straus' findings are already attracting considerable online buzz and the study is likely to be cited in future by the most respected global health and child protection authorities. The United Nations has urged all member states to pass laws making violence against children, including corporal punishment, illegal. Many have done so, but Canada has not.
So what's your take?
Does this latest study change your thinking about spanking?
source: http://ca.lifestyle.yahoo.com/family-relationships/blog/anndouglas/1192/does-this-change-your-mind-about-spanking-spanking-can-lower-your-child-s-iq
So what do you think? If you spank, does this latest study change your thinking about spanking? | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:44:43 AM | | Usually children get spankings for doing something wrong. The fact that they're doing something wrong might mean they weren't all that smart to begin with. Did they separate the children who were spanked into groups of who was actually unruly and who just had abusive parents? | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:53:44 AM | In general*, children who are spanked also have less educated parents than children who aren't spanked. Maybe the parents also had a lower IQ which they passed along to their children.
No, I'm just kidding. Well, sort of. I do think these things are part of it, but I do agree that it makes sense that children who are spanked would have lower IQs.
*By "in general", I mean on average. I don't mean that every single parent who spanks their child has a lower IQ than parents who do not spank their children. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:55:54 AM | That Guy, I take it you buy into the "some kids are just bad" thing eh? Well, I am a believer that nature plays a big role in how "easy" it is to discipline children. That being said, I have spanked on rare occasion but it was mainly out of frustration....it wasn't nearly as effective as other parenting tools I have used. In fact, I found it caused more problems in addition to the one I was trying to correct. Spanking seems to be a sure-fire way to escalate an issue to a higher level of conflict, but that has been my experience, yours might differ.
If you follow the link, you will see that they followed these children over a period of years, the frequencies of spankings varied by child but the overall findings showed a decline in IQ....not that the kids had a low IQ but rather it declined over time with those children who were spanked and for those who were spanked more frequently. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:58:24 AM | I'm not much of a spanker. I think I can count the number of times on one hand that I ever "spanked" my eldest son when he was little (he's now 14). I have never spanked my youngest (18 months). I think that spanking is a parental reaction usually based on either fear or anger....my thoughts are that it's not a very controlled response. There are many old schools of thought that "poo poo" this "new way of thinking", however I am old enough to remember getting whacked on the hand with the end of a yard stick at school, by a teacher, for "fiddling" with my necklace instead of paying attention. What I learned from the experience was to NOT employ my hands to do anything other than staying folded on my lap. My attention to what was being taught was lessened by having to be 100% aware of what my hands were doing at all times, and to avoid the teacher with the yard stick.
Given that example, I don't want to teach my children to behave properly because they fear the threat of physical punishment. I want them to behave properly because it will be a more pleasant experience for them, and for those around them. I believe in natural consequences. You reap what you sow, so to speak. When my eldest son, in a moment of complete brainlessness, racked up $50.00 worth of ring tones and game downloads on his cell phone, he lost the cell phone and had to do an incredible amount of backbreaking yard work in order to pay me back. He has been given a second chance with the cell phone and hasn't downloaded anything. He now understands that having the cell phone is not a "right", and that it must be used responsibly and appropriately. If I had struck him in anger, I'm not sure what he would have learned, other than I was very very angry.
When the youngest throws a tantrum, I let him know that all is OK, and when he is finished I will be in the kitchen. Then I quietly step over him and walk away. When he enters the kitchen I give him a hug. His tantrum equals my disappearance, the thing that he least wants. He gets it out of his system and we move on with our day. As he grows older, we will talk more about how to recognize and handle emotions. If I were to spank him for having a tantrum, I believe it only says to him that "You are out of control, and so am I!" Though it may have an immediate "shock" factor, in the long term, I don't know what positive future message he would receive from it.
The IQ factor mentioned is surprising, but it isn't (and wouldn't be) my primary motivation for not spanking.
ETA: "That guy" you mentioned that children that are spanked are usually spanked for "doing something wrong", but I wonder, do you not see those "wrong doings" as teachable moments to do the "right thing"? Wrong doings are usually fed from curiosity and a lack of self control. Wouldn't improving the self control and enabling other opportunities for satisfying curiosity prove more beneficial? | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 9:03:05 AM | Hey, it went form 5% lower I.Q for the younger group to 2.8% for the older group. Maybe spanked kid get smarter with time and will eventually have a higher I.Q
I think that such studies can't really be considered as iron clad type of things. And no, it doesn't change my point of view on spanking because I already didn't believe in it all that much. There are other, more efficient ways, to discipline your children. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 9:14:05 AM | I read that article but it is just one study and the premise itself is flawed. A child who is not a behavioral problem, able to listen and learn would score higher than a child who doesn't listen and is a constant behavioral problem. That is just common sense.
Hey, I have an idea - let's do a study on those who eat fast food everyday and don't exercise and those who don't. I theorize that those who eat fast food without exercise will weigh more in 4 years than those who don't, they will also have a lower IQ too. So was the fast food the reason for the weight gain and low IQ? or was the fast food a symptom of a lower IQ? We all know poor diet contributes to low IQ... but so doesn't lack of IQ cause someone to not know about healthy eating habits.
This is the same sort of study. The spanking is a symptom of a much deeper issue. A healthy, able to learn child is not spanked. A child who listens and follows directions is not spanked. The child who acts out is spanked. IMHO: I only spank when the child does something so bad that he could die - like putting forks in electrical outlets. The punishment has to go along with the crime. I wouldn't spank for normal things that normal children do. But outside of normal things... absolutely.
The glaring red herring in this study is spanking a child after 6. Who does this? If a child is that unruly after 6, then there is something wrong with that child and he/she needs intervention. ADHD perhaps? How many of these children were tested for ADHD? ADHD also causes a lower IQ because they can't focus long enough to learn.
Sounds to me like a study to try to give credence to the UN for their agenda. Who paid to have the study run..perhaps a proponent of the UNs agenda?
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 9:31:19 AM |
That Guy, I take it you buy into the "some kids are just bad" thing eh?
I buy into that we're all different. If circumstances were the only thing that affected us we could all be as smart as Albert Einstein, as fast as Usain Bolt, and as virtuous on the cello as Yo-Yo Ma. But we aren't. We all have strengths and weaknesses based on our genetic make up. Circumstances are only a part of who we are.
you mentioned that children that are spanked are usually spanked for "doing something wrong", but I wonder, do you not see those "wrong doings" as teachable moments to do the "right thing"?
Of course I do, but as has already been added:
Methinks that if a child is having behavioral issues that cause the parent to resort to spanking, than perhaps there is more going on in that childs life to begin with. An unruly child isn't as apt to sit still long enough to study or learn.
We would have manuals on how to raise children if there was one method that worked on every child. We wouldn't have people in these forums asking how to handle their children because the answer would be, "Just talk calmly to them and tell them they shouldn't do it." It works for some kids... not so good for others. I just don't think spanking is something that can or should be considered abuse every time it's applied. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 9:36:10 AM | The topic of spanking is like the topic of breastfeeding. Everyone has their strong opinion and not much makes them waiver from that.
I'm not much of a spanker, because I think it affects children in harmful ways deeper than dropping a few IQ points... | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 9:45:44 AM |
IQ is the rate at which you can learn, not the level of your intelligence
That is the point of the study.... if a child is under stress, they are less likely to be in a "learning mode"...that is common sense.
Is it stressful to be physically hit by a parent? Is it stressful for an adult to be hit by another adult? Of course it is..... | |
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tass08
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Joined: 8/11/2008
Msg: 12 | |
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:08:44 AM | | I am not in favor of spanking but the study is flawed unless they somehow controlled for every other factor, including parents, genetic abnormalities, prenatal care, circumstances of birth, care and feeding as an infant, and every environmental factor from air quality to brand of dish soap used in the house, not to mention how the parents interact with the child/submects aside from the spanking. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:16:12 AM | if a child is not given the borders of which they can act and do what ever children do..and only have a stern verbal warning..then are not going to heed it (not in all cases..just more so if they weren't spanked).. just look at the kids of today... most of them are no longer spanked..so they grow up with a rebelious verbally aggressive nature.. i was spank as a child..i have a high IQ and rather quite succesful.. so it is quite redudant, subjective and relative to be perfectly honest.
and there is a difference between spanking and abusing your child. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:23:56 AM | | Rossjackson, I completely agree with your statement about giving a child appropriate boundaries, but there should be more in a parent's toolbox than just stern verbal warnings or spanking.....I'm not sure that I agree with "children of today" being rebellious and verbally aggressive. There are some, no doubt, but they've existed throughout time...perhaps we just didn't pay them as much attention in the days of "to be seen and not heard?" Perhaps you grew into a successful adult with a high IQ *despite* being spanked, not *because* you were spanked? One could agree that it could go either way? | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:31:33 AM | the spanking i used to recieve taught me discipline and later on when i was a teenager, self respect. I work my arse off for eveything i have and everything i will have and one of the reasons of that was due to my parents via verbal communication and spanking... people say "no you can't spank your child" well.. considering it has been going on for several thousand years and we have built a mass civilisation that is quite advanced.. i wouldn't say it is a bad thing.. they need to know their boundaries and saying "stop that" etc isn't enough..because they won't stop it lol.
i see no problem with it, i mean i would batter my child for obvious reasons.. but i will let them know when they have done something wrong and they will learn. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:34:09 AM | NOPE.. don't chang MY mind..
That "article" is just
tree-hugger/left wing crap..
if that young-un is misbehaving...
a spankin will make a shopping trip through walmart
a whole LOT more pleasent for normal folk..
---SoldierByte--- | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:41:49 AM | I agree Jaxi.....and I also agree that this among many studies in human nature are inherently flawed because one cannot account for all the factors in the human psyche that could affect the outcome. Still, this study among many others go to demonstrate that corporal punishment has negative affects on children - are they all wrong?
I realize that as parents we cannot always think logically when it comes to how we discipline our children. Logic however dictates that violence is violence regardless of the context and the affect on the human psyche is rarely positive in the long run.
One of the main reasons why I don't want to use corporal punishment with my children is because I KNOW this to be true in my heart . I never felt good about hitting my children and that speaks volumes to me. I recognize that I resorted to its use only when I was at the end of my rope...when I was tired, when I was frustrated, etc..... It speaks to my state of mind as a parent dealing with a child and nothing else. So if I feel bad and I know my child feels bad.....sorry I don't see the positive there. I don't have to hit my children to teach them...I know this.
As Jaxi says, there are many other parenting tools that can teach/mentor a child far more effectively than corporal punishment and yet we hold onto the right to hit our children. I would love for it to become illegal to hit a child. I have heard the arguments time and again that kids are the way they are because they aren't hit enough.....I don't agree. Kids today are the way they are today because parents are too tired to discipline/teach period! Parents are inconsistent and throw in the towel to avoid a confrontation with their children. If parents were really honest with themselves, they would recognize when they are effective parents and when they are not and NOT beat themselves up for it, but learn from it and try harder.
There is no such thing as a perfect parent...we all have our moments. Our children are too important not to teach/mentor and we have a very big/difficult/rewarding job.
Boundaries and rules are important but require consistent expectations to teach to our children....something that is unacceptable is always unacceptable, not just unacceptable when we have the energy to enforce the boundaries/rules.
Corporal punishment is still legal in Canada. The line between acceptable use and abuse is fuzzy folks because it is entirely subjective. If hitting an adult is considered assault, why should it be any different when it is a child? A child cannot defend themselves....a child cannot rationalize the way most adults can.....a child is defenseless....should we not be protecting them? Love shouldn't hurt after all, or should it? What is the lesson we really want to teach our children? | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:43:04 AM | | So out of curiosity, what measures do you switch to when your child is too old to be spanked? And how old is too old? And furthering that thought, if it's effective, why don't we spank adults? If someone goes over their maximum spending account at work, why can't we spank them? | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:47:46 AM | itsallinthesoul: when you smack a child.. it isn't hard enough to injure them like it would be if you punched another adult, so that point is moot and redundant. The lesson is that there are consequences for bad behaviour and breaking rules.. it does not leave any kind of damage phsyiscally nor emotionally as they determine how to rationalise and learn alot of discipline.
anywyay..what you do is what you do and what i do is what i do..two different people with two different views.. niether right nor wrong to be honest. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:49:07 AM | So everyone can now have higher IQ's if they are not spanked.
No matter where your parents might have been they can raise their childs IQ by not spanking their child.
I think there are more than a few holes in this study? So is that to suggest so many points per spanking? Can i then sue the school for the spanking's and the strap that I was given as they attempted to make me conform to the rules that existed.
I happen to feel that cause and effect is a decent learning tool for children. Or is that consequences are something that are a result of ones action or attitude.
But then there are those who suggest time outs work. Or standing at detention. While in reality for some it was almost a badge of honour.
But poor me...my IQ was damaged forever!!
But i was taught lessons in understanding consequences of my actions. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:49:07 AM | | *sigh* jaxi..we spank children to let them know the boundaries.. by the time they are adults..they should know the boundaries of what they can and cannot do..now you are just being facetious. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:51:03 AM |
why....;.why....why don't we spank adults?
 --cripes..
why don't soldiers shoot their superiors..??
why don't police officers let OUT the crooks..
why.. why.. why..
CAUSE they HAVE been disciplined..
and realize..
there ARE (and MUST be) consequences for their actions..(in a civilized society)
go and push your "ways" at ACORN..
they will accept your "article"..
---SoldierByte--- | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:52:46 AM |
when you smack a child.. it isn't hard enough to injure them like it would be if you punched another adult, so that point is moot and redundant. The lesson is that there are consequences for bad behaviour and breaking rules.. it does not leave any kind of damage phsyiscally nor emotionally as they determine how to rationalise and learn alot of discipline.
The Criminal Code of Conduct does not specify how hard you have to strike a person for it to be considered assault so the point is NOT moot at all. If I slap you, you can charge me with assault. If you slap your child, you cannot be charged with assault. Before you comment on this aspect, perhaps you should review the Criminal Code of Canada statutes on assault.....
The lesson we as parents have to teach our children is that there are consequences for bad behaviour and breaking rules...I agree with you. We also have to teach our children how to resolve conflicts......so here is my question to you....
As a parent, when your child does something that you don't like and you hit them, do you not think that you might be teaching them that hitting someone who does something you don't like is an acceptable way of resolving the conflict? What will you say to your child when they strike another child for taking their toy out of their hands? Will you say, "Good job" or will you say to your child "Use your words, not your hands?" | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:53:37 AM |
If hitting an adult is considered assault, why should it be any different when it is a child?
I spanked my ex-wife. Are you telling me I should have gone to jail?
Love shouldn't hurt after all, or should it?
Let's ask John Cougar Mellencamp.
That's the problem with all of this. Some people think hugging is inappropriate too. Pretty soon all human physical contact will be outlawed because somebody has found something that makes it inappropriate... in the setting they've examined. Nobody ever considers any of the variables. It's either right or wrong. I just don't see it that way. As long as I don't have my own hidden agenda, I can see the many different variables. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:54:54 AM |
considering it has been going on for several thousand years and we have built a mass civilisation that is quite advanced.. i wouldn't say it is a bad thing..
Oh, there is a logical argument right there 
One of the main reasons why I don't want to use corporal punishment with my children is because I KNOW this to be true in my heart . I never felt good about hitting my children and that speaks volumes to me. I recognize that I resorted to its use only when I was at the end of my rope...when I was tired, when I was frustrated, etc..... It speaks to my state of mind as a parent dealing with a child and nothing else. So if I feel bad and I know my child feels bad.....sorry I don't see the positive there.
That is exactly how I feel...
I was chased and spanked with my mom's flip flop when my mouth got sassy around my preteen years and my mom was at her breaking point. It did not teach me a darn thing and I find myself resorting to smacking my kid on the butt when I am beyond angry and frustrated and at my wit's end with her. Not a good combination.
Working with children, I see examples every day that those that are hit and their personalities, etc. are stifled by constant threats of violence are the ones that are the most agressive, etc. to other children. It is like the chicken and the egg. Which one came first. The agressive child or the hitting parent. Yet, if the parent removes the stress level and agression from their home in something they can totaly control, themselves, the child learns other ways of coping with their own anger.
On a side note: There was as great segment on parents and physical violence on ABC a few weeks back. Followed three parents with cameras in thier homes with "unruly" children and their discipline techniques and one man in particular that was physically disciplined as a child, continuing the cycle with his same children and trying desperately to stop it, because he knew what it did to him. Very eye opening, if you can find it. | |
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