| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 9/27/2009 3:45:27 PM | FINALLY, someone mentions the real way to economic recovery in the main stream press. This is what I've maintained from the very start. This is where stimulus money should have been going the entire time - starting from the end of the Bush administration to the present. In order for an economy to flourish, it has to have a base source of funds and in a society such as the U.S., those funds come from taxpayers and consumers. No taxpayers and no consumers = no funding and no corporate profit.
The unemployment rate for young Americans has exploded to 52.2 percent -- a post-World War II high, according to the Labor Dept. ...
..."There is no assistance provided for the development of job growth through small businesses, which create 70 percent of the jobs in the country," Angrisani said in an interview last week. "All those [unemployed young people] should be getting hired by small businesses."
There are six million small businesses in the country, those that employ less than 100 people, and a jobs stimulus bill should include tax credits to give incentives to those businesses to hire people, the former Labor official said.
"If each of the businesses hired just one person, we would go a long way in growing ourselves back to where we were before the recession," Angrisani noted.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/the_dead_end_kids_AnwaWNOGqsXMuIlGONNX1K
Unfortunately, because this doesn't go well in a partisan-versus-partisan scenario, it's not been pursued as a solution where it really matters...In Congress and the White House. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 9/27/2009 4:12:39 PM | Banks "not lending" is BS.
In fact, there was a study by one of the Fed's own branches (Minnesota maybe?) that indicated that there was NO credit freeze whatsoever, and that interbank lending was proceeding at the normal rate. This is from the horse's mouth, and contradicts everything that Hank told us on that fateful day when he pulled out a short two page analysis and demanded a trillion dollars from us to give to his cronies.
The bailouts were sheer thievery, Paulson looking out for his GS buddies.
The entities deemed too big to fail should have been allowed to go down, and then more responsible entities could have gained a larger market share. The world is doing just fine without Lehman, but they went down because they were the main competitor for GS, Paulson's home.
For instance, Union Bank had NO exposure to subprime whatsoever, and yet they have to compete with Chase and the other monsters that got government backing. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 9/27/2009 4:27:35 PM |
How are small businesses supposed to pay for new employees - much less their current costs - when the banks aren't lending? That was the whole point of the stimulus - to get banks lending again. If they had given the money to small businesses more banks would have gone under and those business would have burned through the money with no one to lend to them after it was gone. Or worse, the small business owner would have just closed up shop and kept the money. I don't see a solution here.
You're making the assumption that the money will be coming from their local bank. Corporate stimulus money didn't come from one local bank lending it to another. It came from on high, directly from the Federal Reserve. The Tax Prebate of 2008 didn't come from local banks. It came from the U.S. Treasury. Money that did go to banks largely went to boost their reserves. Money that went to taxpayers largely went to pay off existing bills, or to hold as an emergency reserve.
What you are talking about is bank loans to small business. What I am talking about is actual Federal stimulus money that could have been going directly to creating jobs since at least 2008 and that would have continued to resonate in the local, state and federal economies, rather than be tucked away in a secret vault. If you are familiar with the concept of circuit resonance, it involves keeping the energy (money) circulating within a more or less restricted system, rather than having it leak out all over the place, having to be replaced continuously.
Any wise plan would include restrictions on what happens to that money under a variety of circumstances, including the premature closure of business (which would be tantamount to fraud on the part of the recipient business). The money would ONLY go to viable businesses that are fully expected to continue - just not ordinarily able to hire new employees due to capitalization issues, etc. Businesses that normally would not have adidtional employees because of the nature of the business (back room "craft" making, etc.) would not be eligible.
This is no different than local and state governments hiriing on workers for a year to two years at a time using federal money, as far as how the money is used. The distinction being that the business would make money and keep it circulating | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 9/27/2009 5:57:58 PM | Should have dropped the whole "stimulus package" into the armed forces and allowed all those unemployed young people to join up...denying them welfare becasue a job HAD been offered to them. This would have given them job skills, an income and expanded the forces. Also would have given them a taste of life as it really is, rather than the sense of entitlement and the "I deserve it" attitude expressed by so many young people today.
Don't like the idea? tough. It would have worked, cupcake!
Just remember...it takes on average 10 people to keep one soldier in the field...so don't be thinking "I don't want to go get shot at..." Chances are you wouldn't be anywhere near any fighting IF you show some promise in almost any field besides "cannon-fodder".
they could expand it so that even 50 yr olds could get in.....lots of jobs could use their experience...and the physical side to it need not be as harsh as for those who are younger. Would have saved a LOT of families, made a lot of jobs, supplied experience and training for a great many people.
But..Americans being what they are...most wouldn't go for such an obvious way to dig themselves out of economic hard times.
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/5/2009 6:50:11 PM | well hmm? For me to hire one employee and keep them on payroll for one year?
min. $27,000.00. Good one ? 39,000.00~ that 27 must come out of income. ~ This person would have to bring in 50,000.00 that I'd not made without them. It taken 7 years to make an AC Tech ~ to where he's really making you money, till then he's baggage , a necessary evil if you got the volume ,like a bookkeeper.
It'd take a special person to make it work ~ and they are hard to find.
Dance | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/5/2009 7:22:09 PM |
Should have dropped the whole "stimulus package" into the armed forces and allowed all those unemployed young people to join up...denying them welfare becasue a job HAD been offered to them. This would have given them job skills, an income and expanded the forces. Also would have given them a taste of life as it really is, rather than the sense of entitlement and the "I deserve it" attitude expressed by so many young people today.
Don't like the idea? tough. It would have worked, cupcake!
Sorry Cupcake but your idea is extremely flawed.
Either you are saying they should draft all the unemployed people or you do not understand that they are not turning away new recruits.
The army is alway hiring. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/6/2009 9:31:47 AM | Conservatives love to whine about the stimulus bill. They also love to spend the money from the bill EVERY repuke voted against
1) Both Kay Bailey Hutchinson and John Cornyn (of Texas) complained about the stimulus bill because they thought the money should go for tax cuts,
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00061
2) Both Hutchison and Cornyn are pressuring the Obama administration to give Texas $3 billion in stimulus funds.
http://olson.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=34§iontree=21,22,34&itemid=192
3) The letter was signed by 19 repukes who voted against the stimulus
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/space/6653790.html
It's like I always say - The republicans have no solutions, no ideas, no principles and no moral center. All they can do is whine that Obama is spending too much money and whine that Obama is spending to little money. And then, they'll whine that Obama is doing too much while complaining that Obama is doing nothing | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/6/2009 9:34:47 AM | Should have dropped the whole "stimulus package" into the armed forces and allowed all those unemployed young people to join up...denying them welfare becasue a job HAD been offered to them. This would have given them job skills, an income and expanded the forces. Also would have given them a taste of life as it really is, rather than the sense of entitlement and the "I deserve it" attitude expressed by so many young people today.
Don't like the idea? tough. It would have worked, cupcake!
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Youd end up with a class system big time.
The rich kids wouldnt have to go or just enrol in college.
Would be like Vietnam all over again. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/6/2009 10:42:00 AM | The "stimulus package" is basically like using a giant credit card. It'll make things easier now, but more difficult later. Everything borrowed will have to be paid back with compounded interest.
**** the younger generations, huh? | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/6/2009 1:59:32 PM | | Rediculous. My Dad owns one such small business, and if he employed someone he would have to pay tonnes of benefits, etc. etc. etc. It would sink the business. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/6/2009 7:57:11 PM | Not every business would initially qualify for such a program. You wouldn't get money automatically just because you run "some sort of a business". Many businesses are best suited to sole proprietors and that's it. Others - like retail sales businesses would also not qualify. It would have to be a business that has a direct, secondary effect on the economy.
Like certain manufacturing has a secondary effect by putting suppliers to work (and without public money being input). It would make no sense to pump up the workforce of a company that has no demand for its product. So many construction-type companies wouldn't qualify for it either, but others would.
Also, this would NOT be a training or job retraining program. It's meant to put people who are already skilled back into the workforce, or up out of under-employment jobs. You pay to put one person to work who's working elsewhere to make ends meet, then it opens up that lower-paying job for the untrained and new employees to move up into. Pay for one job, put two (or more) people back to productive work.
I don't see or hear ANYTHING of this nature even being discussed where it really matters. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/6/2009 8:28:24 PM | The one crucial difference between a national economy and a personal economy is that you cannot motivate your own personal credit card with sincere feelings such as hope and belief in yourself and have it generate added income.
The "stimulus package" is basically like using a giant credit card. It'll make things easier now, but more difficult later. Everything borrowed will have to be paid back with compounded interest.
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/6/2009 9:11:02 PM |
The one crucial difference between a national economy and a personal economy is that you cannot motivate your own personal credit card with sincere feelings such as hope and belief in yourself and have it generate added income.
The market always has and would otherwise normally pick back up anyway. The stimulus package retards future growth with borrowing - the bottom of the cycle won't last as long, but the economy will lose out a lot of potential because of the compounded interest having to be paid back. It's a band-aid fix at the sacrifice of the future. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/7/2009 1:31:18 PM | The stimulus package is much more then credit! mush more then you offer us.
I don't wish to continually going over it again and again and again but ~
If I show you how to save large amounts of money in the long term with a small investment, would you be the kind of person that's interested?
Dance | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/8/2009 4:43:50 PM | Looks like the world is in final planning stages to drop the dollar as the reserve currency for a basket of currencys except the dollar: Say goodby to the Petrodollar system....
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=10429999&referralPlaylistId=playlist
click on the block : The one thing 10/6 | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/8/2009 4:51:52 PM | Looks like the world is in final planning stages to drop the dollar as the reserve currency for a basket of currencys except the dollar: Say goodby to the Petrodollar system....
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=10429999&referralPlaylistId=playlist
click on the block : The one thing 10/6
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/31595/?ck=1 | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/9/2009 6:55:28 AM | I tune into Glenn Beck from time to time ~ like I might check on a monster I have caged up.
He's a worry wort and loud barker ~ very noisy man. More noise then anything. I think he's a "closet fascist " disguised and an American Patriot | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:06:23 AM |
In fact, there was a study by one of the Fed's own branches (Minnesota maybe?) that indicated that there was NO credit freeze whatsoever, and that interbank lending was proceeding at the normal rate.
Actually JimmyPaige, there was a freeze... it was a freeze of *affordable* short term credit for institutions with tons of debt.
The whole subprime mess is proof that 'deregulation' isn't always a good thing. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/14/2009 6:47:59 AM | Regulation and deregulation are neither good or bad. The are only tools to apply to offer balance and some sense of control.
There are many such tools available to offer control .
"Power" must be regulated and controlled.
A simple example; You might have a car with an engine that might produce 700 horse power.
But it's worthless unless to can get it to the wheels. So you need a drive train that can accommodate such force and manage it in a timely manner.
and then we have only begun. ~ for now we must get the power from the wheels to the road with min. waste. ~ So we make special tires and we build special suspension systems to aid in the tire to grab the road and not slip and waste energy.
and this is just the beginning ! We need a brake to slow and stop and a steering wheel to control where all this power is directed.
Uncontrolled power is useless ~ you might only use it for heating ~ "if" you can control your distance.
Money is power. Power is money.
The power to control give you only more power.
This "recovery" we embark on ~ is long term and has long term goals. ~ The kind of investments we are planning won't require shovels for some time yet, but scientist and engineers, land surveys , and attorneys. For there a lot of dirt to be moved.
In the mean time, it's cash for clunkers, government rebates to encourage consumers to to invest and save ~ across the whole spectrum of products and goods.
We are an energy glutton ~ we must change. Not so much for us to day but tomorrow.
There will come a day water will cost more then fuel.
Dance | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:40:43 AM | How are small businesses supposed to pay for new employees - much less their current costs - when the banks aren't lending? That was the whole point of the stimulus - to get banks lending again
Umm, wrong again. You're confusing TARP (which is bush's bill) with the stimulus bill.
I don't see a solution here.
That's because you're not looking at the facts.
You're making the assumption that the money will be coming from their local bank. Corporate stimulus money didn't come from one local bank lending it to another. It came from on high, directly from the Federal Reserve. The Tax Prebate of 2008 didn't come from local banks. It came from the U.S. Treasury. Money that did go to banks largely went to boost their reserves. Money that went to taxpayers largely went to pay off existing bills, or to hold as an emergency reserve.
I see the OP is also confusing TARP with the stimulus bill, but at least the OP has a basic idea of where the TARP money went. Except the OP is wrong to say that any TARP money went to individual taxpayers.
What you are talking about is bank loans to small business. What I am talking about is actual Federal stimulus money that could have been going directly to creating jobs since at least 2008 and that would have continued to resonate in the local, state and federal economies, rather than be tucked away in a secret vault.
What you're talking about is a confused mish-mosh of propoganda which has caused you to conflate TARP and the stimulus bill into one bill. Also, more of the stimulus bills' money would have gone to creating jobs but the republicans wanted tax cuts. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 22 | |
| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/14/2009 9:50:30 AM | that part about the tax cuts and jobs drive me wild. like people without a job need a tax cut. great thinking there. sometimes you get the feeling that the only solution in the conservative/republican/whatever they are these days play book is tax cuts.
this will piss off the republicans.
something seems to be stimulated.
Dow Tests 10,000. So What?
Steve Schaefer, 10.14.09, 11:50 AM EDT
The blue-chip index nears a round number, but it's just an arbitrary line in the sand.
All eyes were on the Dow Jones industrial average Wednesday after strong third-quarter earnings by JPMorgan Chase and Intel fueled early gains, but a technical analyst says investors getting caught up in the index's effort to hit 10,000 are missing the real cause for celebration.
"This rally is about much more than a number," according to Richard Ross, chief technical strategist at Auerbach Grayson, who said he went through more than 100 charts of stocks, commodities and indexes without even noticing the Dow was on the cusp of 10,000 this morning.
"We have a market and an economy that is in the process of one of the greatest comeback stories ever told," Ross said. "To ascribe any importance to an arbitrary line in the sand detracts from the true drivers of the rally."
Ross didn't dismiss the psychological impact of the level, nor the impact of the mainstream media's focus on it, but with his forecast for the Dow to hit at least 11,245 over the next nine to 12 months, 10,000 is just a pit stop on the road higher.
The 30-stock index was up 107 points at 9,978 approaching midday Wednesday, while the broader S&P 500 gained 13 points, to 1,086. The blowout third quarter from JPMorgan Chase ( JPM - news - people ) had a big hand in the morning's rally, which sent its shares and more than 600 other stocks to 52-week highs.
Concerns may remain about the firm's still-rising loan loss reserves, but shares of JPMorgan gained 3.4%, with the primary focus on its profits and revenue. The figures comfortably beat analysts' estimates, but don't overlook comments attributed to the firm's executives that suggested its nickel-per-share dividend could rise as high as a dollar if all the right pieces fall into place early next year. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/14/2009 12:45:26 PM | ^^The Dow was well over 10,000 under Bush W a few years ago. In fact I think it was at all time highs under Bush W. But that was due to much speculation. Then the housing bubble burst and banking crisis hit sending the Dow low. The Dow went over 10,000 today, but much of that is speculation. Companies are cutting back and trying to remain profitable. Plus stocks were very low early in the year and people swooped in to make a fast buck. Long term I think we will see a much lower Dow. Some people are calling this a 'suckers rally'. Are they right..time will tell. The real danger for the future is the possible collapse of the US Dollar which could very well sink the Dow to new lows just as the burst of the housing bubble and banking crisis did....But a dollar crisis will be far worse. Just think what could happen to a country(America) that has a 70% consumption based economy and high inflation due to a sinking or very devalued currency(US Dollar)-- The consumer will only buy the essentials.
Gold was near a record high as well today. (Last time I checked it was around $1065 a oz) And foreign currencies are keeping their move upwards over the US Dollar.
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 24 | |
| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/14/2009 2:29:27 PM | I love the way republicans trumpet a good market when their guy is in and its a sham and a fraud when their guy isn't.
maybe we should have thought of all that before we started shelling out trillions for unnecessary wars and hiding it with the national chinese visa card. | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/18/2009 6:45:17 PM | Well be long and nasty !~ for too many years we have skipped down the yellow brick road to the Land of Aha Sh1t. Having now arrived, we are consulting with our travel agent, voicing disappointment with both the trip and destination.
It was not as it was represented in the brochure, Now that we are here, when the next bus out of here?
Some will walk, some will ride out in a watermelon truck and some will fly and many will forever stay I fear.
Dance | |
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| The real road to recovery?
Posted: 10/19/2009 3:05:37 AM | Check back at the end of 2010 to mid-2011. Unless you're one of the present speculators and profit-takers, it doesn't matter how high the stock market climbs if inflation is rampant (which will help to push it up to record highs, like in the early 2000's). What matters is how much those dollars are worth compared to other currencies. If they're worth a lot less, it won't be Americans maknig the money, it'll be foreign gamblers.
As for the market on Bush's watch, with it reaching numbers of around 14,500 (there's still a long way to go to get back), all that was simply a sign of the impending crash. Anyone with brains wasn't cheering it on. It was all just foolish speculation. | |
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