| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 9/28/2009 9:50:22 PM | In the 19th century, the paramount moral challenge was slavery. In the 20th century, it was totalitarianism. In this century, it is the brutality inflicted on so many women and girls around the globe: sex trafficking, acid attacks, bride burnings and mass rape.....In a large slice of the world, girls are uneducated and women marginalized.....those same countries are .....mired in poverty and riven by fundamentalism and chaos. ....More girls died in the last 50 years, BECAUSE THEY WERE GIRLS, than men were killed in all the wars of the 20th century. International Herald Tribune 8/22/09
It is amazing to me how things still stand for various segments of society around the world. While essentially privileged Westerners are complaining that the quality of their lives has gone down due to the economic crisis, others around the world, who have always suffered, are suffering far more now. And when we complain and wonder why we are in Afghanistan, this is one reason: to help and try to protect the people there. To help women to get education, something the Taliban outlawed. I think education is the key, the answer to improving the conditions of people around the world.
And just a note about religion: it is not Islam that keeps girls from education, it is fundamentalism and extremists. I have lived, and taught, in two Islamic countries where girls are expected to be educated to an equal level with boys. Not educating girls has nothing to do with modern day Islam any more than it has to do with modern day Christianity.
What do you think is the best thing to do to help the third world? Or does it just seem too hopeless? | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 9/29/2009 1:19:08 AM |
What do you think is the best thing to do to help the third world? Or does it just seem too hopeless? Robert S. MacNamara pointed out, in The Fog of War, that the first thing to do, when confronting any enemy, is to empathise with them, really get to understand them. If not, you may end up fighting an unwinnable war, that actually wasn't your enemy to start with, like the Vietnam War. Too often, the West thinks it has all the answers. It talks only to the people it thinks knows the situation. It asks only the questions it wants to ask. It listens to only the answers it wants to hear. It controls the conversation with such firmness, that it cannot help but get the answer it is expecting, and with that, it sees only the solution it expects to see. But life doesn't care what we think. Life will ask its own questions, and will answer them. If we do not listen, to hear life's answers, which are rarely like our own, we'll be trying solutions that have no chance of working, because they are treating a problem with the wrong solution, which is like treating a cancer patient with the wrong type of treatment. It will never succeed, and will only make the patient far sicker, and exacerbate the illness.
If we are to help the world, we must take a leaf out of the book of women, and learn to LISTEN.
When the West LISTENS to what the rest of the world says, and STOPS telling them what we want them to say, THEN, and ONLY then, will we have any way to help them. Till then, we'll be a bunch of well-meaning people banging our heads against a brick wall. | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 9/29/2009 10:17:49 PM | Listening is important but then who do we listen to?
The main thing that separates a 3rd world nation from becoming advanced or "developed" is rampant Corruption................virtually every 3rd world state is run by a despot or dictator..........such rulers fill the void created by the disarray produced by socio-economic deficiencies. They then take measures to ensure their own survival and thus propagate the vicious cycle. Regardless of how they are propped up, the main thing is that a true democracy cannot thrive in such an environment........at least not for long.
therefore, "listening" to the gripes, wants, and desires of a dictator(s) is not gonna amount to very much............(anyone who heard some of recent UN speeches made by these individuals, may know what i mean).
If we are to help the world, we must take a leaf out of the book of women, and learn to LISTEN.
........it just isn't quite that simple! | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/4/2009 12:49:18 AM |
.virtually every 3rd world state is run by a despot or dictator......
So are many "1st" world states....they just disguise it better....
Much of the corruption is fueled (pun intended) by "1st" world states bent on ensuring their survival by ensuring the rest fail.
They then take measures to ensure their own survival and thus propagate the vicious cycle.
Not much different than you're typical western politician.
.......it just isn't quite that simple!
Oh...but it is....if one can't listen...(regardless of gender)....there is no point in asking...
Listening is important but then who do we listen to?
Listening is one thing.....comprehension requires some type of intellect. Ourselves might be a start.... | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/4/2009 12:54:47 AM | | It is part of my perspective, Outdoor2, that people don't really care, in general, because it is girls. Just like the West doesn't really care when disaspora or ethinic cleansing is happening to people in Africa, that these things are happening to girls is not considered as important. This is not all of it, but part of it. | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/4/2009 1:22:58 AM | Not just because they are girls...(although it is a large component)...but moreso in how society in general has been trained over the last several decades (most especially the last one) to think that individual rights are more important than collective rights.
Much easier to divide and conquer when one pits the masses against themselves. | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/9/2009 4:36:09 PM | RE Msg: 4 by sum1reel:
Listening is important but then who do we listen to? It really doesn't matter. All that matters is that we listen, and stop closing our minds and hearts to that which we don't want to hear.
The main thing that separates a 3rd world nation from becoming advanced or "developed" is rampant Corruption...... When I was living in Israel from 88-92, corruption was so endemic, that they had a word for it, "Protectzia". But Israel was considered by many, even then, to be a First World country.
I would agree that there is a significant difference between 1st world countries and 3rd world countries. 1st world countries are full of corrupt practices as well. But in 1st world countries they are always hidden from view, and if they are exposed to the light, then they tend to be crushed. In 3rd world countries, corrupt people are free to be open about their corruption.
But if we compare the 1st world countries of Europe in the early medieval times of 1000-1500 CE, we see many of the same issues and problems as in 3rd world countries. Masses of wars, conscription, awful treatment of ordinary people, lack of quality medicine, lack of literacy, and much more. I'm not exactly sure what made us evolve into a fairer society, if it was simply a matter of time, or particular circumstances that can be engineered to happen quickly. But we Westerners were once like them. So maybe we can be a bit more sympathetic to their situation and even to their corruption.
Regardless of how they are propped up, the main thing is that a true democracy cannot thrive in such an environment........at least not for long. I'd agree with that.
therefore, "listening" to the gripes, wants, and desires of a dictator(s) is not gonna amount to very much............(anyone who heard some of recent UN speeches made by these individuals, may know what i mean). I was thinking of a post by ItsMargo, when she wrote that she had learned that if you listen to people, they'll tell you what really motivates them, and what will get them to do what you want. I'm thinking more that if we can only learn to master this skill better, these dictators are going to reveal to us what will get them to establish a democracy.
If we are to help the world, we must take a leaf out of the book of women, and learn to LISTEN. ........it just isn't quite that simple!
RE Msg: 5 by Outdoor2:
Bravo! You seem to have quite a grasp of the problem.
RE Msg: 6 by Ismene2:
It is part of my perspective, Outdoor2, that people don't really care, in general, because it is girls. Just like the West doesn't really care when disaspora or ethinic cleansing is happening to people in Africa, that these things are happening to girls is not considered as important. This is not all of it, but part of it. It's a little more that the West is only interested in helping people in developing countries, when it benefits them directly. But because of the rise of feminism, girls at least get a mention. Nothing is mentioned about the boys.
For instance, we all know about the oppression of women in countries like Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan, and in countries in Africa, under extremists. But almost no-one in the media bothers to point out that huge amounts of boys are sexually abused, possibly as much as girls, and that millions of boys get conscripted into the armies of extremists against their will, and then end up shot, or blown up by land mines, or horribly tortured and mutilated.
The West does little about what goes on in most of these countres. The plight of girls get a mention. The plight of boys get ignored. I think we have to mention both, and deal with both. After all, even if some Western politicians only care boys, don't you think that if we mention how badly boys are mistreated, then they might be more inclined to do something about the situation, and that will help girls as well as boys? | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/11/2009 9:15:08 PM | | I read alot of these forum postings as I do not have a lot to do having lost my wife . I have read a lot of your postings and I just want to say in my opinion you are a very intelligent lady.Best wishes to you. | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/13/2009 9:20:48 PM | What do you think is the best thing to do to help the third world? Or does it just seem too hopeless?
Are you blaming gynocide on poverty? Don't women and girls do ok in Mexico and S America? I mean, everywhere there is SOME crime. Plus, sex slaves are HUGE in Japan, I understand. Japan is a first-world country, wouldn't you say? As is Yemen. I'm not convinced it's a poverty thing.
In any case, the cause of cruelty is usually desperation. It just happens that the brunt of the hurt happens to fall on women and girls--and yes, boys--because they are physically the weakest. Education can't hurt, but it's not in the best interests of the people in power to educate their citizens.
Ourdoor: MOST countries are not like us where we value such independence, by the way. They think we're weird and arrogant for thinking we matter as individuals. So THAT cannot be the reason people abuse their own people.
Sort of like the boss kicks the worker the worker kicks his wife the wife kicks her child the child kicks the dog.
If I may wax feminist for a moment:
I do think that normal men have little empathy for the plight of rape victims. Normal men are basically good guys, so they have no idea that when women are raped, it's brutal. It's NOT making love, it's not "just fucking hard", it can burst women's uteruses, they are literally split open. They are beaten up, often beaten to DEATH, strangled, sodomized with all manner of objects including things like BAYONETS (you know--KNIVES) , etc. IT IS NOT JUST SEX.
Just as prostitution isn't a "victimless crime"--the normal guys out there, the basically nice guys who wouldn't in a million years hurt a woman, have NO IDEA how cruel and brutal some men can be to another person JUST BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN.
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/13/2009 9:57:30 PM | Are you blaming gynocide on poverty? You are right, it is not just about poverty and 3rd world was imprecise and a misnomer. I am talking about "sex trafficking, acid attacks, bride burnings and mass rape," which usually occur in war time and/or fundamentalist religious or archiac cultural enviroments where many people are un or under educated--which is usually the 3rd world (acid attacks/bride burning), etc. In Europe there is a problem with Eastern women being tricked intp prostitution; it is related to poverty because they are women who have accepted jobs around the world to improve their income. I don't know if Eastern Europe can be called the 3rd world, but there are definitely economic problems. In any case, the violence towards women has been going on for centuries. As for South America--at least in some places, domestic violence toward women and rape more often than not go unpunished; in fact, it is often the woman who is held responsible for being raped--the she asked for it syndrom. | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:31:17 AM |
As for South America--at least in some places, domestic violence toward women and rape more often than not go unpunished; in fact, it is often the woman who is held responsible for being raped--the she asked for it syndrom.
I could argue that "ditto in North America". | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:45:14 AM | ^^^Yes to some extent. I've read, however, and I don't remember which country, I think Brazil, that men have killed a wife or girlfriend whom they caught with another man. The article discussed that men often do not face prosecution for this crime because of the macho culture. It's not exactly the same as in the US.
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/us/honor-killing-of-wives-is-outlawed-in-brazil.html
Here is something about it. It was probably in the '80's that I read the article about it. In the New Yorker or Atlantic Monthly. I used to read them both regularly. That's why I'm pretty sure it was in one of those magazines. | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/16/2009 2:29:24 PM |
It is part of my perspective, Outdoor2, that people don't really care, in general, because it is girls. Just like the West doesn't really care when disaspora or ethinic cleansing is happening to people in Africa, that these things are happening to girls is not considered as important.
I think that people are generally ambivalent or feel helpless. It makes no difference to us in the West if the person dying in Darfur is male or female. And as a parent, I find it hard to believe it hurts any less to watch your daughter die than your son - regardless of your origin. | |
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| What's a girl's life worth these days?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:02:21 AM |
What do you think is the best thing to do to help the third world?
Nothing...it is not our business. And who said they want our help? That is a stupid notion that only shows ignorance. What is it with Americans thinking that they have to, or that they have the right to get involved with other nations issues?
It is part of my perspective, Outdoor2, that people don't really care, in general, because it is girls. Just like the West doesn't really care when disaspora or ethinic cleansing is happening to people in Africa, that these things are happening to girls is not considered as important. This is not all of it, but part of it.
Really? Show me proof that people don't care because it is girls. Or are you just making this stuff up about people not caring because it is girls? Where does it say that people don't care because it is girls?
If I may wax feminist for a moment:
I do think that normal men have little empathy for the plight of rape victims. Normal men are basically good guys, so they have no idea that when women are raped, it's brutal. It's NOT making love, it's not "just ****ing hard", it can burst women's uteruses, they are literally split open. They are beaten up, often beaten to DEATH, strangled, sodomized with all manner of objects including things like BAYONETS (you know--KNIVES) , etc. IT IS NOT JUST SEX.
Oh...thank you for enlightening me. I never knew that rape was such a brutal act until I read this. As above, state sources that say that men do not know that rape is brutal. I'm glad to see that you have such a wonderful opinion of men, basically we (men) do not understand something unless some beneviolent woman informs us. Thanks again for clearing up that rape and consentual sex are two different things. Next are we going to be told the deffinition of "No"?
Just as prostitution isn't a "victimless crime"--the normal guys out there, the basically nice guys who wouldn't in a million years hurt a woman, have NO IDEA how cruel and brutal some men can be to another person JUST BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN
What the hell does prostitution have to do with how brutal some men can be? Prostitution is only crime becasue a bunch of prudish people get offended by the fact that there are times when a male/female would rather just give someone money for sex instead of having to deal with all the crap in a relationship. Who are you to judge what is a "normal guy"? | |
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