| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:25:45 PM | Other than paying all members at a job equally, is there a better way to get ahead ?
or getting substance abusers , at work, to keep "sober" with the track record of having "noone" let go under "any" circumstances.
I know that there are a lot more things that unions do well which are beneficial.
other than the obvious, are workers unions still a good idea?
I'm wondering can unions remain feasible in a cut throat competetive world of business and finanial bottom lines?
I value your answers and debating points ! feel free to express most any. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:44:27 PM | IMHO unions have outlived their usefulness. Most persons I know who belong to unions have paid their dues faithfully only to see more and more of their benefits bargained away every year. That doesn't seem to be true of some unions, i.e., the UAW. However, I also think they've bargained themselves out of jobs by insisting on a ridiculous hourly wage to slap-dash the same part on vehicle after vehicle, day after day, then complain when Americans buy a Honda NOT because it is less expensive but because it is a superior product.
The last time I saw a panel of union members assembled for the purpose of developingn substance abuse policy and procedure, two of the panel members were substance abusers. Subsequently, one became the chapter prez. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:48:06 PM | if they do what they were origionally did.then yes......but too many..espically in urban areas.....no longer do.........i've worked for 2.......bricklayers and teamsters............the teamsters was a joke...............the bricklayes however....was pretty good..though if you made the wrong guy mad......your name went to the bottom of the list..........this was before that union went national.............how it is now.....i cant say.
the auto unions are too strong in my opinion..........put in the time.........you can goof off as much as you like and the union will protect your job.causeing the company to hire another person to do your job..........the steelworkers union is pretty much the same......lol.....and dont get me started on the teachers union............they hold the country hostage every 3 years or so......
so yes...some unions are good.......AND.....we shouldnt get rid of them totally.............but i sure would like to see them revert back to their origional purpose | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:52:46 PM | .
Now we will find out if Unions are any good anymore....
Membership is the lowest % since 1917, and number like 1955, Most union members are Public Service, or Government.
Without Unions the USA has become a workers paradise....
The Corporation is all powerful, Illegal workers, Off shore jobs, anything goes.....
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:08:01 PM | | Right to work states are getting scarier. Employers have discovered that contracting workers is cheap. They do not have to pay them healthcare or any bennies. Good old thinkers the CEOs' are | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:13:19 PM | .
Labor has been so devalued ....
Contract Labor, Open Borders... Even if they don't hire the illegal, it drives wages down....
The Greenspan plan hold wages down... No inflation... | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:14:21 PM |
Without Unions the USA has become a workers paradise....
The Corporation is all powerful, Illegal workers, Off shore jobs, anything goes..…
I soo totally agree!
To make matters worse the strongest unions now exist where unions should not be permitted, in civil service. These persons work for the tax payers yet they call the shots.
As the common man struggles to find gainful employment those supported by our tax dollars gain more and more strength. For instance here in California the teacher’s unions are so powerful that one out of every two tax dollars goes to education. Salaries for superintendents and principals are in line with corporate heads. Nepotism is rampant as are outlandish benefits. Even now that our state is bankrupt they balked, demonstrated against any cuts for them.
For the workers in private industry I believe unions are crucial as corporations are, for the most part, ruthless in their treatment of their employees | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:20:41 PM | .
superintendents and principals are in line with corporate heads.
That is management NOT union.... They are the freeloaders... If you think it is hard to fire a teacher..............
Try to fire a worthless married Principle that is sleeping with a parent.....
Management will have a teaching Certs.... that shows a lower student to teacher ratio.....
and never teach a class...
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:27:36 PM | I work around both union and non union contractors regullarly. There are about half of the non union contractors that I feel are getting away with not having employees that are treated as well as I would like. The Union offers lots of good people a chance to live a good life. There are many things I disagree with that the unions do though.
Some of the unions power is being misplaced, forcing the companies they contract work with into a bunch of extra BS. The work that each trade is allowed to do is very restrictive. What takes a nonunion company 2 guys to complete, often takes the union contractor double because each employee of each trade needs to be there. Ends up being a lot of guys standing around doing nothing at times. The company I work for has been hiring a lot more nonunion contractors lately. The unions are pricing themselves right out of jobs. The company I work for wants to hire the union contractors, they do great work, their safe, and the people working for them are treated right, but sometimes the union itself is too much pain in the butt.
Seems like most of the workers are alright with the givin situations, but it only takes one guy to start a bunch of crap about rules.
"You're not supposed to touch that, its UA work. Thats a teamsters job,we got to get another guy out of the hall for 2 hours work. Only operators can run that equipment. Hey we started five minutes early, we should get paid an extra hour. We're 10 minutes into lunch break, thats an extra hour. Wheres my boot allowance? Hey, welders should be getting more per diem than the laborers. How come that guy gets vehicle pay?" Get the point?
I am pro Union for the employees sake, but the unions themselves should be trying to be more attractive for companies to hire. So many rules and restrictions. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:35:15 PM | Hmm... I've worked in and around government all my adult life but only knew unionization within the federal and teaching systems. And, yes, both of those are too powerful and abuse that power.
Some of the local trade unions help shops to avoid reporting new hires so divorced parents' paychecks don't get garnished for back child support. Gotta love them family values. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:56:22 PM | .
.
I am pro Union for the employees sake, but the unions themselves should be trying to be more attractive for companies to hire. So many rules and restrictions.
Labor is too cheap and Unions have very little weight to push the Employer....
The Grocery Workers are voting on a contract...
It will be turned down... Maybe strike? Who has the leverage now...
Last contract the lead state was California, setting the standard for other areas...
Big strike... Settled labor got screwed....
Ralph's and Safeway got fined for using union workers under fake ID's to keep things going ....
Small Penalties..... like the Mine safety fines...
Something like $12,000 a miner ... That was forn the 10 guys with faulty emergency air... The Equipment didn't work ... the guys suffocated.....
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 3:06:53 PM | Union membership is at an all time low. I think it's dropped to about 20% of the workforce in the U.S. Not coincidentally, conditions for employees are deteriorating. Companies used to have employees that worked a 40 hour work week, got benefits, and got time and a half for overtime. Now a significant number of people are on "contract." The 40 hour work week has disappeared for many, and many people have to work evenings and weekends, take work home with them, and be on call when they are at home or even on vacation. One of my friends was recently threatened with being fired because his boss expected him to work 84 hours one week and he only agreed to work 80! This guy is *not* some high paid executive, he's just another IT guy working on a project.
If you have a grievance with the company, there's no one to go to bat for you. You can get laid off without cause or for flimsy reasons.
I trace all of this to the decline of union membership. People took what they had for granted and now they're losing it. Maybe they'll wake up but I doubt it. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 3:13:47 PM | .
Union membership is at an all time low. I think it's dropped to about 20% of the workforce in the U.S.
..............Close.............12%
Don't Blame labor... Unions are attacked on every level....
Union Labor was the middle class,.....
.
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 4:23:24 PM | I soo totally agree!
To make matters worse the strongest unions now exist where unions should not be permitted, in civil service. These persons work for the tax payers yet they call the shots.
As the common man struggles to find gainful employment those supported by our tax dollars gain more and more strength. For instance here in California the teacher’s unions are so powerful that one out of every two tax dollars goes to education. Salaries for superintendents and principals are in line with corporate heads. Nepotism is rampant as are outlandish benefits. Even now that our state is bankrupt they balked, demonstrated against any cuts for them.
For the workers in private industry I believe unions are crucial as corporations are, for the most part, ruthless in their treatment of their employees
It's funny that you mention that. Arnold tried to reform the Unions and put the vote before the people of California. The teacher's unions launched an all out assault on these reforms and they were shot down in a vote. The people of California get exactly what they deserve. They put these knuckelheads in office who protect these powerful unions that eat up public revenue, and then have the audacity to **** about it.
It's no wonder unemployment stands at 12.1 percent. And California is supposed to be this liberal utopia.
Right to work states have it right. The idea is for government to get out of the way so the private sector can put people to work. If you're going to tax a company, heavily regulate it, impose unjust labor codes, and set wages scales than a direct result will be higher unemployment as they head for greener pastures.
These companies put up the capital, incur all the risks and the potential loss of capital, provide jobs, and pay taxes. If you're going to punish them why should they risk "their" capital to create jobs?
With all the labor laws we have today Unions are no longer needed and have helped send jobs overseas. Americans need to wake up and realize they're not just competing with each other for jobs.....they competing with China, India, and the rest of the world. If we want to remain competitive we need a strong, hard working labor force, not the lazy ass, resource draining, government and Obama protected racket that are the Unions. Unions need to go the way of The Dinosaur--extinct. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 4:54:16 PM | Two cows anyone?
AN AMERICAN CORPORATION
1990's: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead. The other sues sheepherders, claiming that the immigrant Belgian Sheep are carrying Mad Cow Disease (even though no sheep have ever caught it) and that they should be detained and destroyed by a Secret Dairy Tribunal set up by the FDA.
2009: You have two cows. You sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd one. You force the two cows to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when one cow drops dead. You spin an announcement to the analysts stating you have downsized and are reducing expenses. Your stock goes up. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 5:13:08 PM |
With all the labor laws we have today Unions are no longer needed and have helped send jobs overseas.
Greedy corporations operating unconscionably have sent jobs overseas. Corporate heads need to be multi-millionaires, reluctant to share profits and benefits with their employees. Persons working in India, China and the Philippines have much, much lower cost of living expenses than Americans. Therefore, they can work for pennies where Americans require dollars.
Americans need to wake up and realize they're not just competing with each other for jobs.....they competing with China, India, and the rest of the world.
This is the crux of the problem. We cannot compete with persons willing to work for a couple of dollars a day. The entire garment industry has disappeared from the US due to the fact that garment workers here cannot live on what is paid to the overseas workers. That is not competition but rather exploitation of both American and foreign workers.
If we want to remain competitive we need a strong, hard working labor force,
We had one of the best most productive labor forces in the world before Corporations wreaked their power with the government, whom they control, and jobs were given to persons not entitled to work here and other jobs sent overseas.
not the lazy ass, resource draining, government
Our government is the problem; without a solution to the current loss of jobs in this country we are doomed. How is it reasonable that we keep letting in more and more people and throwing away jobs faster than we can say, corporations.
More than 150 years ago, Abraham Lincoln cautioned us as to the destructive aspects huge corporations would have on our society. It has now come to pass.
Obama protected racket that are the Unions.
I’m no fan of Obama but I do not see him protecting anything including job drain.
Unions need to go the way of The Dinosaur--extinct.
Non civil service unions need to get stronger; perhaps in much the way they originally came into power. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 6:42:17 PM | | In my job being part of the union is almost a must. Not being part of the union could end up costing you your job | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 6:51:12 PM | | In my job being part of the union is almost a must. Not being part of the union could end up costing you your job | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 7:10:38 PM | I don't get why Unions, especially in the trades, think they have the right to any work that is done.
Why do they think they have the right or need to protest a construction project just because the contractor made the wise economic decision and went with nonunion trades workers? why do they think that they have some special privilege that grants them all of the work in a specific trade?
I laugh when i see them picketing projects. They are so lazy they can't even be bothered to get out of their vehicle to protest. They put out their signs, and sit in their lawn chairs or in their vehicles. How damned lazy! I love to mess with them. I honk as they go by, they get excited because they think I am their union brother supporting them........and then I flip them off as I pass..........
Unions are way past their usefulness. They have lost their sense of purpose and have become self serving and they have forgotten their mission to protect the worker. They have driven up wages to the point that our economy cannot tolerate them any longer. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 7:56:37 PM | | If I did the job I'm doing now, but in the private sector (no union), I would be making at least $10 an hour less than I am now. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/2/2009 8:01:42 PM | ^^^ I see you are management team. Who wants to be the the cow that died? TBH most workers that are non unionized have bennies as a result of unions. The major corp employers are not benevolent people. They offer bennies to stop unionization. Break unions and watch people start losing even more benefits.
I worked in healthcare 34 years. A normal workload when I began was no more than 4 life support patients and 12 breathing treatments in an 8 hour shift. When I left healthcare I was expected to care for up to 16 life support patients and over 30 breathing treatments, blood gases and analysis, not to mention new admits and codes in a 12 hour shift oh and critical documentation. Thats freaking dangerous! Oh yes we were held to the same quality expectations. I also saw my bennies thin as the years progressed. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 3:07:59 AM | Raine,
I agree that unions have a good record when it comes to better conditions,wages,...
but like the early 1900's, there is just too many people needing to work to live. Even if it is for a lower wage, the number of available and unemployeyed workers is just too dang high in comparison to the # of jobs available.
are the unions "pricing " themselves into obscurity, by not finding the middle ground that originally started the unions into such a good and practical use?
Dale | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 8:36:57 AM | .
are the unions "pricing " themselves into obscurity, by not finding the middle ground that originally started the unions into such a good and practical use?
It isn't the Union "pricing " themselves into obscurity, It's the Lazy over paid US worker.
In China the same job for 1/100 the per hour.....
Meat cutters in the US were expecting $12-15 hr ... the Same job in the same place . $8 hr.....Contracted to an Illegal..... That supports a contract company and the guy doing the work...
Meat cutters were over paid.... and always complained about unsafe conditions.....
Proof look up Monford ....
It is the US worker expecting too much pay....
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 9:44:46 AM |
Other than paying all members at a job equally, is there a better way to get ahead ?
Can I read this a little differently.......?
The guy down the line,who can never keep up, is given the same money as the guy who is always on track with his tasks.The guy down the line can't be fired though...union rules dictate he gets three "corrective criticisms" in his personel jacket before he's brought to a meeting that will merely move him to a lesser demanding function[which he may still not keep up with]and start the cycle again.Unless of course he actually gets caught stealing or punching someone or caught drunk on the job[wait...that's an ADA medical condition...he may sue]and finally gets fired? | |
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