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Posted: 10/3/2009 2:51:41 PM | Has anyone heard that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW Local 2034) is on a legal strike? We went on strike yesterday at 6:00 p.m. and the news doesn't seem to be reporting much or giving out much information on what is going on. Its frustrating to me that so few people seem to know about what is going on in these negotiations.
For example;
the corporation wants us to sign a 4 year contract with raises of 2% in the first year, 0% in the second, 0% in the third and 0% in the fourth. They have made increases in some health benefits but also want to make cutbacks on others. IBEW asked for a 2 year contract with 8% raise each year. Hydro is standing firm in these negotiations. None of what I am telling you can't be found online if you search for it so I am not giving away any secrets. What CBC told us on the news is that there will be some inconvenience to the public and they interviewed our CEO who made a statement about it.
Just wondering if any of you out there support us? | |
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Posted: 10/3/2009 6:02:05 PM | | Well their offer seems a little cheap, but hey you have a new building to pay off. Mind you I am not sure how anyone can ask for 8% and keep a straight face. | |
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Posted: 10/3/2009 7:28:38 PM | Let's get to the important issue... with the strike on, will there be someone with Hydro that can cut off my service if I don't pay my bill, or can I let it slide for now 
Seriously tho, good luck with your strike, hope it doesn't drag on. | |
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Posted: 10/3/2009 7:47:47 PM | I personally don't support the MB Hydro strike as pay increases on salaries which are above the industry norm is not fair. There are many people who will not only loose their jobs, but many others will not see pay raises this year or in the next few years as business is generally hurting everywhere. Hydro has health benefits while others in your industry do no have them - so to have increased benefits works out to a overall pay increase. The same goes for employer sponsored pension plans, many people in other segments of your industry do not have this, so once again these workers are above the industry norm. Personally I dont have a problem with your union going in with expectations of 8% - but in reality, I'm leaning toward thoughts of greediness on the part of your union, and to any workers who believe they are worth it - what has any of you done above and beyond the required to show you are worthy of what you are presently getting? There are many people in your industry that would be happy just knowing they were protected and had a job for the next 4 years as the Hydro employees do.
I guess I'm the wrong person to ask, if you are looking for support. | |
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Posted: 10/3/2009 8:33:08 PM |
I personally don't support the MB Hydro strike as pay increases on salaries which are above the industry norm is not fair.
That's the thing, we are not paid above industry norms. We are in fact paid less than people doing the same trades in the public sector. This is why so many of our people leave the company to get work in the west.
So you think we should just accept an offer of nothing for a four year contract? I can't believe you would expect anyone to agree to that. | |
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Posted: 10/3/2009 9:04:18 PM | The industry norms does not include special benefits Hydro employees such as the following employer supported benefits: pension plan, dental/medical plans, health insurance, tool/work clothes allowances, paid vacation time, and I am probably forgetting some other benefits. If you take the lower Hydro salaries and include the actual costs of the benefits, you will find your salaray including benefits and job security is better than the industry norms. People are leaving Hydro to work out west due to the hourly wage, and many forget that the wage may be higher, but so are living expenses. I know people who have left to "strike it big" and came back complaining about how expensive things were.
When you are negotiating contracts, there is a dance of bargaining that goes on. However, I have found that people who are in unions tend to be blind of the goings on in the world as they have secured employment, regardless of what the rest of the industry is going through. In the current economic situation where many people are loosing their jobs and major construction projects are being delayed, I think being offered a wage increase in the first year of the contract and guaranteed employment for 4 years is better than going on strike. In a strike no one wins except the union representatives as they are paid their full salary. We have just seen the auto industry break the unions, so I think its just a matter of time till other unions are challenged. We are living in an world economy where the people of Canada are generally buying the majority of items made elsewhere due to its cheaper price, because labour is being paid less. So, as industries continue to evaporate in Canada, anyone who thinks we can live the lifestyle we have previously enjoyed are living in a glass bubble. I don't see unions retaining the power they had in the past when people won't support industry and manufacturing being done in Canada. | |
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Posted: 10/3/2009 9:40:24 PM | Well if anyone wants to buy their electricity elsewhere I'm sure we won't miss them!
How can you compare manufacturing industries to utilities? We don't need cars, they are a privilege, not a right. Everyone needs electricity. Well I guess we don't need it but it sure helps in the winters of our province.
From The Winnipeg Sun;
Manitoba lost 1,900 jobs in January, although there are still nearly 5,000 more jobs in the province than there were a year ago.
The latest Stats Canada labour market statistics were released this morning by the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics, and the numbers show 607,200 active jobs in Manitoba, down from 609,100 jobs in December 2008.
Manitoba lost 1,300 part-time jobs in January, down to 114,700 from 116,000, and also lost 600 full-time jobs, down to 492,500 from 493,100.
However, the numbers are still much higher than they were in January 2008, when there were 111,900 part-time jobs and 490,700 full-time positions.
Nevertheless, the province's unemployment rate has crept up from 3.8% in January 2008 to 4.3% in December to 4.6% in January 2009.
That's partly because the labour force has grown as well, with 8,800 more workers in Manitoba than there were a year ago.
Winnipeg's unemployment rate jumped from 3.9% a year ago to 4.9% in January 2009, but that's still fifth-best among Canada's major cities, trailing only Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary and Edmonton, and better than anywhere outside the Prairies.
The same goes for Manitoba's unemployment rate, which is better than every province except Saskatchewan and Alberta.
Prince Edward Island's unemployment rate is more than double Manitoba's, while the unemployment rate in Newfoundland and Labrador is more than triple what it is here.
Nationally, 129,000 workers joined the ranks of the unemployed to raise the average to 7.2%. Nationally, it was the worst monthly employment drop in at least three decades, topping figures seen in either of the two previous recessions in the 1980s and 1990s.
Doesn't sound like recession to me! In fact they seem to make our economy sound pretty good right about now! | |
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Posted: 10/3/2009 9:42:12 PM | Hey Sue what industry are you comparing the guys at Hydro to? If it is others in the electrical field you would see wages and benefits comparable to Hydro, some higher some lower. You can not compare the car industry to hydro also. The car industry is in a slump as it was over capacity as it was. Hydro is not loosing business and you can not replace the employees with just anyone off the street.
While manufacturing jobs can be outsourced to other countries service oriented jobs can not. It is hard for someone in India to climb a pole and hook up a cable. | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 6:00:26 AM | what is the top rate for a jpurneyman linesman?
what do apprentices start at?
labourers?
what is your o/t rates?...time and half or double?......
myself , i am in a union and do support your actions but might as well get these questions out if the way as others will be asking.................and have good arguements if you expect any support from non union employees.......... | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 6:23:33 AM |
I personally don't support the MB Hydro strike as pay increases on salaries which are above the industry norm is not fair.
Well, there's a shock. Haywiresue, the only person who's ever rooted for Mr. Potter while watching "It's a Wonderful Life", doesn't support the strike. Ah, for the good old days when pesky things like labour laws and minimum wage legislation didn't exist, eh, Sue? So basically, the idea is to let employers determine what the "industry norm" without the influence of those "greedy unions" that exist solely for the purpose of shutting down businesses and throwing people out of work. In your utopia, wages would be driven down to the point where the industry norm is minimum wage (damn minimum wage laws). Anybody asking to be paid more than that would be seen as greedy, no? | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 7:25:33 AM | Before the nails puncture one my arteries, let me clarify some things.
My comments about not supporting the Hydro strike were from looking at the strike based on the economics of the country. I'm not against unions and having a centralized bargaining unit for workers. Why I am not supporting the strike is because Hydro has not reduced jobs or tried to take away previously negotiated benefits, while they have offered an increase and guaranteed jobs for in a 4 year contract. I am certain that the Electrical tradesmen outside of hydro do not have the overall pay and benefits packages, or the guarantee of a job for 4 years. This is why I don't support the Hydro strike. If the electrical workers as an entire group were looking for wage parity with another province and all the benefits and cost of living were also in that equasion, then I would be supporting it.
I know from being in a union environment that many people seem to forget about the benefits they receive and the union never brings the total cost of benefits into the picture.......at least to the workers. When MB Hydro matches the employees conbtribution for pension, dental, medical, insurance, and other benefits, where do you think the money comes from? It doesnt just fall off the money tree. Management looks at the total cost of staff which includes benefits, while union negotiators and union members are only looking at the salary numbers.
I'm not against anyone earning a fair wage for the work they do, but I believe the "comparison data" is often manipulated to show desired results of the group wanting the data. It is no different than the cut and paste that goes on in the forums. One person clips a portion of an idea or comment and runs in a different direction with the information.
About the Mr. Potter comment - there you go putting words in my mouth again - lol.
There is a big difference between being a business owner and being hired staff. If someone puts their money into running a business then they should make more money than the staff because of the risk involved in running a business. I know many people who own their own business and its great when times are good, but its a different thing when you cannot draw a paycheck or have to take a reduced amount, because you don't get the work/contract, or make the sales for reasons like our current recession. Regardless of this staff and the bills must be paid, its the owner who takes the risk of not getting a paycheck. I have friends who this has happened to in the last 3 months, so it is a factor. Its unfortunate that many people who are in a union or are staff don't think about these things, because they get a paycheck ever 2 weeks. | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 8:57:52 AM |
Just wondering if any of you out there support us?
Not a hope in hell!!! I'm against facism in all forms. Unions bought special legislation to have powers far beyond what they should be allowed as well as limit the rights of the corporations and non-union worker. They use union accounting to try gaining support from the public. Union accounting is creative lying for example a wage freeze simply means they only got the raise the contract called for not the larger one they wanted. A pay cut means they didn't get a raise. They can go into a company and lie to the employees to convince them to unionize but the management cannot speak with the employees about the situation. It is illegal to have to pay for a job yet if you're not willing to pay the union for your job you can't work there. Y0u can threaten to walk off the job and shut a company down yet the company has no right to fire you? Union workers are above the law in that they can intimidate good workers who are replacing them and vandaize the vehicles and property of the company and so called scab labour without fear of legal recourse. How many times did we see that in the postal strikes.
Then to top it all off they whine and **** about the cost of their union dues but they are a tax writoff for the union employee which means non-union employees get to cover the tax shortfall for these guys. I say anyone who wants to walk off their job has the right but the company should have the right to replace them. If they cared about their jobs and their work as they all pretend when they strike then they would be working not striking. "We're only striking so we can bring you better service." is a flat out lie. NO i believe they are facist baztards and we lost a lot of good men in the wards fighting facism so i will proudly be against it in all forms and especially the labour unions. | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 9:36:50 AM | ^^^^^^^^
Annnnnd....there it is. Fascism. The rallying cry of the new right. I guess it's like homosexuals taking back the word "fa**ot" or blacks calling each other by the "N" word. Yeah, those trade unionists sure had it easy in Nazi Germany, didn't they? They got to go to "camp" for free! | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 11:36:42 AM | Sue it might come as a surprise to you but Electrical workers outside of Hydro are probably making more than those at Hydro. Partly as compensation for the uncertainty of working for a private company and partly due to market forces, the supply of electrical workers has not kept up with demand. Also the electrician that wires your house or does work in industry is not qualified to climb up a hydro pole. The two are a different kettle of fish and as is a construction electrician as compared to someone who fixes you TV.
This is true in many trades as older workers have been retiring while many young people have looked to universities for their future. While the downturn has reduced the severity of the shortage even in this work climate there are shortages. These people do not grow on trees, it takes a minimum of four years for a person to be qualified to do this work. Hydro requires two years of schooling at a College as a prerequisite for those applying for the positions.
Hydro has not been reducing its workforce due to this downturn (you still need the same amount of people to service the electrical system in place) they are concerned that they will not be able to get the employees they need to keep things running in the future.
Power distribution is more a public service like firefighting than traditional business. Because of that even during a strike the workers are required to put down their signs and get the system up and running if there is a problem. Because of that contracts tended to mimic what other public service industries offer. Because of that Hydro's position seems odd this time around. | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 1:10:17 PM | | as to industry norms, look at hydro electricians as comprable to electicians that work in mines and mills..........and i can gurauntee those workers didn't settle for o % in any years of their contracts...........and funny how my company compares our industry to mine and forestry , until time to pony up for wage increases, then we are "unique", so we are different and have no yardstick to go by.............. | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 3:25:15 PM | | Actually it is good you mentioned that, I almost forgot a insignificant detail. Hydro is one of a group of companies (mine included) that have grown tired of poaching workers from each other. What they have been doing in the past was looking at the wage settlements within the group and use it as a basis to come up with bargaining positions. We never settled (and there is no way we would have) for 0% in any year of our contract. And we think we settled low for our norm. | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 5:11:12 PM | Whats to support? Whats to oppose?
Hydro which has been controling Manitoba politics and policies and Manitoba lives far more than most realize is making a smart business ploy....and they are very a shrewd business....
Hydro pulls in huge amounts of cash...with huge profits....in 20 years of living there I never once heard any one question where those huge profits go....I am curious...how many of you know the structure of Hydro?
However, maybe you haven't noticed but there are people in thr rest of Canada with skilled trades who are waiting in line for jobs....many who had solid pensions with Blue Chip type companies are looking at much reduced expectations at retirement.
How many people do you think would come to Manitoba to get $75,000 to $100,000 jobs with JOB GAURANTEE right now?
So Hydro has a bargaining tool.....why would they upfront offer 2-3% per year for 4 years when they know they can get an accepted offer of a total 5-6% over 4 years...and job security. They are starting low. at 0%...and trying to lock in the union.....
If the union had any brains they would go WITHOUT a contract for about 2 years...and then begin negotiations...wait till things are closer to building the new power system....wait till the economy stabilizes...and then go after a better contract retro-active....
But from the people I have known who have worked at Hydro...they are too used to having things their way...and they will want it now!! And go on Strike !!
Which helps Hydro marginally reduce their work force (with normal attrition over this time)...bring in more appreciative available workers outside of Manitoba....reduce their payroll for a temporary time....and then stabilize their work force in the next years ahead (with a locked in 4 year contract)... which years are likely too be very busy!
Its a very smart business move actually. You kinda have to admire thier strategy.
However, whatever the case, I can betcha a basket of donuts that what is being planned has little to do with what is best for the overall average Manitoban. | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 5:31:08 PM | | can't argue the logic, don't necessarily agree with it all, but an interesting view...........will be interesting to see how long the unions resolve will last, and i'm not talking the executive still collecting their wage but those on the line...........i give it a month at most before they cave............persoanally i have been trying to get our members to see the wisdom of a forced warchest fund of 50 bucks a month in an intrest bearing account over the life of a contract....4 yrs equals 2400 bucks come contract time............having money to survive on is the only thing corporations understand...........course then the crybabies wail what do i pay dues for?.....why isn't my strike pay more?........etc. etc..........the current attitude of your average union member makes me sick and yet it is all we have to work with.............signed, caw union memeber............ | |
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Posted: 10/4/2009 10:28:38 PM |
Annnnnd....there it is. Fascism. The rallying cry of the new right. I guess it's like homosexuals taking back the word "fa**ot" or blacks calling each other by the "N" word. Yeah, those trade unionists sure had it easy in Nazi Germany, didn't they? They got to go to "camp" for free!
Now there's a classic leftist rebuttal, no debate just regurgitate the same tripe. So they went camping, that is a good thing. You can learn a lot at camp. Since you like the nazis so much lets join hands in remembering Hitler orignally gained his power through the national workers party via the labour movement. Yes he was leftist as was marx, Stalin, Moussolini, Mau and Obama oh yes and Doer. Facists every one and a typical sample of left wing politicians. | |
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Posted: 10/5/2009 6:18:12 PM | | Like most right wing nuts, you obviously get your definitions of fascism from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh instead of a dictionary. FYI, communism, socialism, and fascism are NOT interchangeable. Moussolini and Hitler were left-wing? Were you dropped on your head as a kid, or has years of masturbating to old "Soldier of Fortune" magazines caused permanent brain damage? Yeah, OK. You win, Dudley. Gary Doer equals Adolph Hitler. Retard. | |
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Posted: 10/5/2009 7:02:11 PM | Ok MODS ! Where are you? This last post needs to be struck!
Let me remind everyone: You may not agree with with another Poster but personal attacks, rude comments, name calling while they are not to be tolerated on here are BESIDES THAT : infantile.....and speak more to YOUR poor character than they do the person you are attacking.
Besides all that, both of you of Posters really are making comments that have little to do with the content and intent of the thread....so keep your generalized political beliefs to yourselves. | |
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Posted: 10/5/2009 8:37:54 PM | Actually I am looking forward to 'Strike' The Musical. I hear the electricians are going to put on quite a show.  | |
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Posted: 10/6/2009 6:55:57 AM |
Besides all that, both of you of Posters really are making comments that have little to do with the content and intent of the thread....so keep your generalized political beliefs to yourselves.
Tempt you are probably right about the intent part i'm a bit undecided on the content though.
Sparx, while i cannot in good concience support any strike for other than extreme circumstances i do wish you well in your personal life and hope the strike doesn't cripple you financially nor become too stressful for you physically. | |
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Posted: 10/6/2009 3:15:41 PM | While the group on strike have not yet settled, the other two unions from Hydro who were also in legal strike positions have a tentative settlement, that from a financial point of view is a big improvemnt on what the striking group was offered. I am sure that this group will also have an offer to vote on shortly.
Some times a strike is just a way of saying we arent going to take what you are shoveling anymore. Employees as a collective group only have so many options to express their displeasure to management. Sometimes knowing that the workers are united enough to take a stand is what can get productive negotiations going.
And the supreme court of canada has established that colletive barganing is a right we have, not a priviledge.
" the right to bargain collectively with an employer enhances the human dignity, liberty and autonomy of workers by giving them the opportunity to influence workplace rules and thereby gains some control over a major aspect of their lives, namely their work" ( from a June 8th 2007 decision of the Supreme Court) | |
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Posted: 10/7/2009 6:36:45 PM | The only good thing so far is that a couple guys have noticed that I appear to be losing weight!!!
Oh and the extra time has allowed me to go hunting, freezer is full of deer meat! | |
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